Notorious BIG Rookie Card?

[tier1dc]

I've seen that in 2013 Panini did a Black Friday dual license card with Platinum League for the HRX cards that had Snoop, 2Pac, & Biggie.

I found this 2012 Platinum League card of Biggie but it has gold foil instead of the regular silver foil on base Platinum cards and it also has thicker paper stock.

Anyone ever seen this set/parallel before? Any chance it would be considered his true rookie card?

https://i.imgur.com/caNaoVAh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vLerhKnh.jpg

[MyckKabongo]

Amazing find! Yes, I think the 2012 Platinum League may very well be his first appearance on a card.

[omega145]

Since when did musicians get "rookie" cards?
A rookie when related to cards means "a member of an athletic team in his or her first full season in that sport."

[dd316]

Since when did musicians get "rookie" cards?
A rookie when related to cards means "a member of an athletic team in his or her first full season in that sport."

Welcome to one of the biggest debates of the last year in non-sports.

[tier1dc]

Amazing find! Yes, I think the 2012 Platinum League may very well be his first appearance on a card.
Yeah, super random find. Also got a 2Pac & Snoop card like the Biggie one.

Since when did musicians get "rookie" cards?
A rookie when related to cards means "a member of an athletic team in his or her first full season in that sport."

And where did I post this? In the non sports, correct? If it's his first official card, it's his first official card. Look up Batman 1966 #1 PSA prices for what people consider to be Batman's 1st/Rookie card.

[chilly55]

Yeah, super random find. Also got a 2Pac & Snoop card like the Biggie one.



And where did I post this? In the non sports, correct? If it's his first official card, it's his first official card. Look up Batman 1966 #1 PSA prices for what people consider to be Batman's 1st/Rookie card.

The non-sport rookie card is a joke that just happened recently with all of these new, uniformed investors coming into the market. They made up the non-sport rookie card and thus inflated prices. Prior to Covid, the Luke Skywalker "rc" was worth the same as all of the other cards in the set. Same with all of the other "rc's" that these new buyers are overpaying for. Rc's in the hobby didn't exist before Covid. So, who are the fools? But hey, if someone wants to pay those prices, more money for the sellers.

The reason the Batman #1 is worth so much is that back in the day when we kids collected, we rubber banded our sets. Yes, back in the 60's, & 70's, that's what we did to a pile of cards. The #1 and last card in each set is now damaged because of the rubber bands. So to find one in higher conditions command a premium. Plus, I know for a fact because I did it, I would throw away cards that were damaged by rubber bands. Plus, they were great for the spokes in your bike to make noises :)

[Mahomie]

Nice Rookie card

[PumpnDumpling]

The non-sport rookie card is a joke that just happened recently with all of these new, unsophisticated speculators coming into the market. They made up the non-sport rookie card and thus inflated prices. Prior to Covid, the Luke Skywalker "rc" was worth the same as all of the other cards in the set. Same with all of the other "rc's" that these new buyers are overpaying for. Rc's in the hobby didn't exist before Covid. So, who are the fools? But hey, if someone wants to pay those prices, more money for the sellers.

The reason the Batman #1 is worth so much is that back in the day when we kids collected, we rubber banded our sets. Yes, back in the 60's, & 70's, that's what we did to a pile of cards. The #1 and last card in each set is now damaged because of the rubber bands. So to find one in higher conditions command a premium. Plus, I know for a fact because I did it, I would throw away cards that were damaged by rubber bands. Plus, they were great for the spokes in your bike to make noises :)

Fixed, but everything else spot on :)!

[Mahomie]

Fixed, but everything else spot on :)!

I luv Rookie kards!

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/6scAAOSwlXlgZg~n/s-l400.jpg

[PurplesaurusRex]

Rookie cards make sense for comic characters because they do have teams (even if its just heroes vs villains) and they challenge one another. But I'd rather have a comic book first appearance over a card.

[nyisle]

Rookie cards make sense for comic characters because they do have teams (even if its just heroes vs villains) and they challenge one another. But I'd rather have a comic book first appearance over a card.

So, then they should change comic books to Rookie Issue, instead of First Appearance....

[PurplesaurusRex]

So, then they should change comic books to Rookie Issue, instead of First Appearance....


Hah, sure I guess. The weird thing about comics (and even musicians) is sometimes the cards come much later than the actual appearance. That Ghost Rider rookie card says 1990, but that's definitely not the first year that he appeared. Same thing with musicians, they don't always coincide with a first album.

[webjon]

This card is a great example of why the term rookie doesn't work in entertainment cards -- among other reasons this card was produced 15 years after his death.

Rookie also makes no sense at all for comic cards. In the Ghost Rider example -- what would the rookie be? Johnny Blaze, Danny Ketch, Robbie Reyes? Or should it be Gabriel Luna's first card as Robbie Reyes, or Nic Cage as Johnny Blaze? What about all the other versions of Ghost Rider? Ohh -- the first Ghost Rider -- so Carter Slade?

[PurplesaurusRex]

I'm gonna pick up this Kid Rock rookie card, it might be worth something! :D


507613

[wigglestrue]

Welcome to one of the biggest debates of the last year in non-sports.

What debate? Not here on Blowout. So where was the debate taking place? Private chats? As far as I'm concerned, the debate hasn't even begun.

Since when did musicians get "rookie" cards?
A rookie when related to cards means "a member of an athletic team in his or her first full season in that sport."

I appreciate the literalism that's entirely dependent on preexisting definitions from another domain, but this is an emergent phenomenon subject to revising definitions to fit the domain of music cards.

The non-sport rookie card is a joke that just happened recently with all of these new, uniformed investors coming into the market. They made up the non-sport rookie card and thus inflated prices. Prior to Covid, the Luke Skywalker "rc" was worth the same as all of the other cards in the set. Same with all of the other "rc's" that these new buyers are overpaying for. Rc's in the hobby didn't exist before Covid. So, who are the fools? But hey, if someone wants to pay those prices, more money for the sellers.

The reason the Batman #1 is worth so much is that back in the day when we kids collected, we rubber banded our sets. Yes, back in the 60's, & 70's, that's what we did to a pile of cards. The #1 and last card in each set is now damaged because of the rubber bands. So to find one in higher conditions command a premium. Plus, I know for a fact because I did it, I would throw away cards that were damaged by rubber bands. Plus, they were great for the spokes in your bike to make noises :)

I lmfao at imagining people with your attitude in the late 70s sneering sarcastically at the dedicated baseball card collectors who "made up" the hobby standards that didn't exist and which you now take for granted. Prepare for a shock. If non-sports rookies are a joke, YOU'RE the punchline.

[wigglestrue]

I've seen that in 2013 Panini did a Black Friday dual license card with Platinum League for the HRX cards that had Snoop, 2Pac, & Biggie.

I found this 2012 Platinum League card of Biggie but it has gold foil instead of the regular silver foil on base Platinum cards and it also has thicker paper stock.

Anyone ever seen this set/parallel before? Any chance it would be considered his true rookie card?

https://i.imgur.com/caNaoVAh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vLerhKnh.jpg

The image link is broken so I can't see it, but if you're asking whether Biggie's rookie is the 2013 Panini or the 2012 Platinum League, it's definitely the 2012 Platinum League. (Unless there was some obscure but legit set with a Biggie card produced before 2012!) I've been seeing the 2013 Panini listed a lot on eBay as his rookie, priced in the hundreds, and I shake my head, because hip hop fans should definitely remember that Biggie's mom helped launch the 2012 Platinum League set, holding up his card for the press cameras, and it's not like it was a boutique limited edition set, boxes of packs of it were sold in the big retail stores all over the country. The 2013 Panini is still a nice card, but I suspect a lot of people are going to be pretty pissed when they realize they bought a card under the mistaken impression it's his rookie. I did see one 2012 Platinum League for sale, listed correctly as Biggie's "true rookie", priced around 300, and whoever bought it ought to be happy, it could be a bargain depending on how many of those sets were produced.

[chilly55]

What debate? Not here on Blowout. So where was the debate taking place? Private chats? As far as I'm concerned, the debate hasn't even begun.



I appreciate the literalism that's entirely dependent on preexisting definitions from another domain, but this is an emergent phenomenon subject to revising definitions to fit the domain of music cards.



I lmfao at imagining people with your attitude in the late 70s sneering sarcastically at the dedicated baseball card collectors who "made up" the hobby standards that didn't exist and which you now take for granted. Prepare for a shock. If non-sports rookies are a joke, YOU'RE the punchline.

lol, if you feel you want to pay for a non-sport rookie card, go for it. That makes you the joke. Prior to Covid, the non-sport rc didn't exist. The 1990's Marvel sets/boxes were cheaper than a meal at McDonalds.

As far as Baseball, I've been in the hobby since 1975 and rookies were coveted back then just as they are today. When Star Wars came out in 1977, nobody paid a premium for Luke Skywalker's rc. Nobody did in 1980, nor 1985, nor 1990, etc. So go for it if you want to pay a premium for non-sport rookies. Your entitled to spend you money the way you like. But respect those of us who refuse to pay a premium for something that just started recently. And if this is they way things will be in the future, so be it. My money will go elsewhere. The hobby changes and we all make adjustments. My adjustment is to not buy non-sport rc's.

[dd316]

What debate? Not here on Blowout. So where was the debate taking place? Private chats? As far as I'm concerned, the debate hasn't even begun.
Yes, it was discussed in numerous threads here as well as other non-sports forums. You're jumping back into a discussion nearly a year AFTER I said it was already being discussed over the PRIOR year.

Just because you didn't participate in the discussions doesn't mean they didn't happen. :rolleyes:

[wigglestrue]

Yes, it was discussed in numerous threads here as well as other non-sports forums. You're jumping back into a discussion nearly a year AFTER I said it was already being discussed over the PRIOR year.

Just because you didn't participate in the discussions doesn't mean they didn't happen. :rolleyes:

Cool, where are the threads here? Were they deleted? All I could find by searching was this thread. What other non-sports forums? Were they talking about both vintage and recent sets, or just the latter?

[wigglestrue]

lol, if you feel you want to pay for a non-sport rookie card, go for it. That makes you the joke. Prior to Covid, the non-sport rc didn't exist. The 1990's Marvel sets/boxes were cheaper than a meal at McDonalds.

As far as Baseball, I've been in the hobby since 1975 and rookies were coveted back then just as they are today. When Star Wars came out in 1977, nobody paid a premium for Luke Skywalker's rc. Nobody did in 1980, nor 1985, nor 1990, etc. So go for it if you want to pay a premium for non-sport rookies. Your entitled to spend you money the way you like. But respect those of us who refuse to pay a premium for something that just started recently. And if this is they way things will be in the future, so be it. My money will go elsewhere. The hobby changes and we all make adjustments. My adjustment is to not buy non-sport rc's.

"rookies were coveted back then just as they are today"

Oh? Really? Coveted just as much? Or just coveted, and only certain cards? Be honest. And what were the standards for rookie cards back then? Oh right, they didn't exist. They were "made up", just like non-sports rookie guidelines are being "made up" as we speak. Oh, and before the mid-70s, how coveted were baseball rookie cards? How coveted were baseball cards, period? So coveted they were thrown away and used for street games and bicycle sound effects. And then what happened? People started realizing they were more valuable than that. But then for a while basketball cards were still dismissed. "Pffft, they're just basketball cards." Until people realized those were valuable, too, and standards were applied to those sets, too. What makes you think the same won't happen for non-sports, especially music? Inertia, is what I think.

[dd316]

Cool, where are the threads here? Were they deleted? All I could find by searching was this thread. What other non-sports forums? Were they talking about both vintage and recent sets, or just the latter?
I did a search for "Rookie" in the non-sports forum here and a lot of threads came up that discuss it within from 2020 on.

Outside of there there's the Non-Sport Update forums as well. Outside of social media, these are the two biggest online forums I'm aware of.



"rookies were coveted back then just as they are today"

Oh? Really? Coveted just as much? Or just coveted, and only certain cards? Be honest. And what were the standards for rookie cards back then? Oh right, they didn't exist. They were "made up", just like non-sports rookie guidelines are being "made up" as we speak. Oh, and before the mid-70s, how coveted were baseball rookie cards? How coveted were baseball cards, period? So coveted they were thrown away and used for street games and bicycle sound effects. And then what happened? People started realizing they were more valuable than that. But then for a while basketball cards were still dismissed. "Pffft, they're just basketball cards." Until people realized those were valuable, too, and standards were applied to those sets, too. What makes you think the same won't happen for non-sports, especially music? Inertia, is what I think.
For as long as I've been collecting cards (40+ years now) "Rookie Cards" have ALWAYS been cornerstones. And the term "Rookie Card" was much easier to identify when there was only one manufacturer putting out cards - the first one was the RC, easy enough. Plus, at least on the sports side, most of the first cards had some kind of RC identifier. If you want to argue comparing back then to now, look no further than the Wander Franco stuff going on as he's had numerous cards out, but the 2022 Topps S1 finally identifies it with the Rookie logo.

And I think you're confusing "coveted" with "collected". Yes, kids put them in bike spokes, but nobody even back then would trade you their Mickey Mantle RC for your Joe Shlabotnik, even in 1963 - certain cards had higher value than others. Heck, treating their cards this way made ones that survived in better condition MORE valuable.

Things only became valuable once many people wanted them. Then it boils down to how many are there, and is that number enough to go around for everyone that wants it?

[wigglestrue]

I did a search for "Rookie" in the non-sports forum here and a lot of threads came up that discuss it within from 2020 on.

Outside of there there's the Non-Sport Update forums as well. Outside of social media, these are the two biggest online forums I'm aware of.

Thanks for the info.

I see a slew of threads pop up for "rookie", meaning, I'd have to scroll through them all to find the debates about non-sports rookie status? Are there a few of them that stand out as a thorough debate?

For as long as I've been collecting cards (40+ years now) "Rookie Cards" have ALWAYS been cornerstones. And the term "Rookie Card" was much easier to identify when there was only one manufacturer putting out cards - the first one was the RC, easy enough. Plus, at least on the sports side, most of the first cards had some kind of RC identifier. If you want to argue comparing back then to now, look no further than the Wander Franco stuff going on as he's had numerous cards out, but the 2022 Topps S1 finally identifies it with the Rookie logo.

And I think you're confusing "coveted" with "collected". Yes, kids put them in bike spokes, but nobody even back then would trade you their Mickey Mantle RC for your Joe Shlabotnik, even in 1963 - certain cards had higher value than others. Heck, treating their cards this way made ones that survived in better condition MORE valuable.

Things only became valuable once many people wanted them. Then it boils down to how many are there, and is that number enough to go around for everyone that wants it?

I started collecting around 1986-1987, I remember. Many rookies were identified as rookie cards, but probably not most, though? You're right, there were fewer candidates to keep track of. Just one, before 1981, usually. But that presupposes that one already knew which sets were legit. THAT is one of the major issues in music cards, more so than whether a card meets the kind of rookie qualifications we encounter today in sports. We think it's easy to identify the rookie card for a baseball player in the 70s, but imagine having to account for all the minor releases and oddballs, too. Not just a 1978 Topps but also a 1977 Burger King card and a 1978 local ice cream manufacturer disc or whatever. In music, the candidates are perhaps MOSTLY minor releases and oddballs. Different domain, different expectations, different principles/rules/guidelines. That's my take, anyway. And it also seems to be David Halpen's perspective on first cards, and he is basically the pioneering Beckett of music cards. Whatever arguments took place a couple of years ago obviously weren't fruitful enough. Like I said, they might as well have not happened, the debate hasn't even really begun. But I am still quite interested in perusing those debates, so thanks again for the info.

[dd316]

Thanks for the info.

I see a slew of threads pop up for "rookie", meaning, I'd have to scroll through them all to find the debates about non-sports rookie status? Are there a few of them that stand out as a thorough debate?

Unfortunately you have to dig. But I read just about everything in the Non-Sports section, and the discussion came up in numerous threads which is why I said it was a big debate, there was lots of talk about it in many places. It doesn't look like there was a thread solely about that argument, at least none that I noticed in my quick search.

[wigglestrue]

I neglected to reply to a couple of things.

And I think you're confusing "coveted" with "collected". Yes, kids put them in bike spokes, but nobody even back then would trade you their Mickey Mantle RC for your Joe Shlabotnik, even in 1963 - certain cards had higher value than others. Heck, treating their cards this way made ones that survived in better condition MORE valuable.

You seem to be familiar with music cards. Where does the analogy between music cards and baseball cards fail? I'm sure it does here and there, hence the need for a different paradigm, but the circumstances of coveting/collecting seem to be more or less the same. Were American kids excitedly trading Jimi Hendrix cards for The Doors cards? No. But the music sets we're talking about were almost entirely issued in Europe, so I assume kids there were also reluctant to trade a star for a common. And they were mostly not taking good care of them, but some of them were, therefore we still have some good and a few beautiful specimens today, all the more valuable because of how little care was spent in general. Same as baseball. (EDIT: Except that those music cards were often issued as "stickers" that one was supposed to glue into an album, and so the undamaged music cards are often even rarer, wayyyy rarer.)

Things only became valuable once many people wanted them. Then it boils down to how many are there, and is that number enough to go around for everyone that wants it?

For people to want them, they need to know they exist. Before I started one recently, there wasn't a single thread about vintage music cards in this forum. Think about that. Most Americans only know about the 1991 Pro Set cards, if they even know music cards exist at all. Will they want them once they discover they exist? My guess is: Hell yes. Musical heroes are on par with sports heroes in people's hearts. The music itself is arguably more important to people than sports, even for many sports obsessives. Musicians are real people, as opposed to fictional like superheroes. As opposed to actors, musicians are producing unfake art, not merely pretending to be this or that fictional character. They have careers not unlike sports, primes and peaks, measurable accomplishments, awards, Halls of Fame, a steady output of work albeit usually less regular and frequent than athletes, classic arguments about the Top 5 Guitarists Ever or the GOAT singer, etc. (EDIT: I didn't even mention that music sets were invariably rarer than sports sets, the majority of music sets, even the major-est ones like the Paninis, can be classed as scarce, compared to major sports sets.) Perhaps most importantly, it's not just sports nerds and comics geeks who care about music, everybody does. It's not just mostly dudes, but women, too. The elevation of music cards to a level approaching sports cards has been such an obvious development that should've already taken place it truly astonishes me that a debate about their place in the hobby world still even needs to take place. And whether or not music rookies are ever officially deemed a thing by some hobby authority, there will still always be the first cards, which is pretty much indistinguishable. It's mostly just a matter of having some organization with clout bless what everybody already treats as rookies with a "RC" or "XRC" whatever. I think that's inevitable. It would make no logical sense to deny music rookies that status. And if there are sports-centric people who insist on sabotaging the effort to gain them that status, well, guess what. That works both ways. The state of sports rookies today is, frankly, absolutely ****ing preposterous. If a vintage music rookie can't get recognized as a rookie card because it seems "arbitrary" or "silly", wait until the debate about how arbitrary and silly today's sports rookies are gets...ungenerous. Have there already been debates about that, too? Hahaha, again, I don't think so, that debate hasn't even really begun, either. And I don't really have much interest in spoiling the fun for those obsessed with contemporary sports rookies, but if gatekeepers want to spoil the fun for music card collectors, well...the sports absurdities then become fair game, IMO. And there are way, way more reasons to mock and dismiss today's sports rookies than vintage music rookies, believe me...if it comes to that.

[chilly55]

I started collecting around 1986-1987, I remember. Many rookies were identified as rookie cards, but probably not most, though?

This explains everything. Even in 1986-87, there were no rookie non-sport cards. Nobody paid a premium on the first appearance of Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, E.T, Starbuck, Gene Simmons, etc. Not even in the 90's or 2000's.

Baseball, as dd316 stated, is that baseball rookies were always collected/coveted. Even in 1975, nobody took their Nolan Ryan rc and put in the spokes of their bike. They didn't take their Pete Rose, Hank Aaron, Stand Musial, Steve Carlton etc. rookies card and put them in their spokes. I put my Don Money, Larry Christenson, Larry Haney, Team Checklist cards etc. in my spokes. You do realize there was a card market back in 1975, right? You do realize there were a lot of card shops back in 1975, right? The hobby might not have been where it is today, but it did exist and many, many kids I played with collected back in the late 60's & 70's.

Don't speak about something you know nothing about.

Again, if the market today wants to put a premium on first appearances of characters/people in non-sport sets, then it's a new phenomena that didn't exist just a few years ago. The hobby has changed and those of us that have been around a while probably won't change with it. I will move on to something else. It's hard to pay a premium on something you never did for 45 years.

[wigglestrue]

This explains everything. Even in 1986-87, there were no rookie non-sport cards. Nobody paid a premium on the first appearance of Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, E.T, Starbuck, Gene Simmons, etc. Not even in the 90's or 2000's.

I also remember getting basketball cards like McHale's rookie for pennies and stacks of pristine 1988 Fleer for pennies, because absolutely nobody cared about anything except for baseball cards. Do you remember that? Does it actually matter when people decide that, oops, they've been overlooking an entire subset of the hobby? Nope. 5 years, 15 years, 50 years...doesn't matter.

Baseball, as dd316 stated, is that baseball rookies were always collected/coveted. Even in 1975, nobody took their Nolan Ryan rc and put in the spokes of their bike. They didn't take their Pete Rose, Hank Aaron, Stand Musial, Steve Carlton etc. rookies card and put them in their spokes. I put my Don Money, Larry Christenson, Larry Haney, Team Checklist cards etc. in my spokes. You do realize there was a card market back in 1975, right? You do realize there were a lot of card shops back in 1975, right? The hobby might not have been where it is today, but it did exist and many, many kids I played with collected back in the late 60's & 70's.

Don't speak about something you know nothing about.

I think you might be speaking about things you're misremembering for effect. "Lots" of card shops, in 1975? Are you serious? They were rare. There was BARELY a market. Before the mid-70s nooooobody cared about "rookie cards" per se, it wasn't a thing. Kids valued the stars more than the no-names, sure, but the vast majority of kids still weren't protecting the stars like precious commodities, they'd use the stars in the flip games, too, that was the whole point, to scoop up somebody else's stars. It was before my time, but guess what, I didn't emerge from a laboratory, I had a father, and he told me all about what kids generally did with cards.

Again, if the market today wants to put a premium on first appearances of characters/people in non-sport sets, then it's a new phenomena that didn't exist just a few years ago. The hobby has changed and those of us that have been around a while probably won't change with it. I will move on to something else. It's hard to pay a premium on something you never did for 45 years.

When did people start putting a premium on the first appearances of baseball players? Before you answer, it doesn't even matter if you place the dawn of that awareness in the mid-70s or if you make stuff up about anyone caring about rookies a decade earlier in the mid-60s, or even the mid-50s. Because the other end of the equation is: When did baseball cards start? For well over 45 years, noooooobody cared about baseball rookie cards. And then a few people started to care, and I bet other people looked at them funny. And then some more people started to care, but most still didn't. And then suddenly lots of people cared, but they only cared about baseball cards, and the concept of caring about basketball/football/hockey cards seemed laughable. They thought anything except for baseball cards was a joke. And they were right, in a sense, except they were the punchline.

[dd316]

I think you might be speaking about things you're misremembering for effect. "Lots" of card shops, in 1975? Are you serious? They were rare. There was BARELY a market. Before the mid-70s nooooobody cared about "rookie cards" per se, it wasn't a thing. Kids valued the stars more than the no-names, sure, but the vast majority of kids still weren't protecting the stars like precious commodities, they'd use the stars in the flip games, too, that was the whole point, to scoop up somebody else's stars. It was before my time, but guess what, I didn't emerge from a laboratory, I had a father, and he told me all about what kids generally did with cards.

You're applying modern day collecting sensibilities to that of nearly 50 years ago. There was absolutely a market, just not at today's levels. There were no card sleeves, no grading, no Ebay marketplace... Those who collected and cared about their cards kept them in rubber bands in boxes. Looking back, for condition, was that the smartest thing? No. But it's what they did because they were valued more than sticking them in bike spokes.

And yes, there were card shops in the 1970's. They may not have been on every street corner, but they existed. Found a decent article HERE. (https://www.justcollect.com/what-happened-to-my-local-baseball-card-shop/#:~:text=A%20look%20at%20how%20baseball%20cards%20evolved%20from,and%20arranging%20to%20meet%20with%20sellers%20in%20person.)



And then suddenly lots of people cared, but they only cared about baseball cards, and the concept of caring about basketball/football/hockey cards seemed laughable. They thought anything except for baseball cards was a joke. And they were right, in a sense, except they were the punchline.
Laughable? Baseball cards absolutely DOMINATED collecting for decades. Nobody "laughed" at people collecting other sports, there just wasn't as big a demand for them so they weren't produced in the same staggering quantities as baseball really until the early 90s. I would venture to guess hockey cards were probably #2 up to that point because of both the US and Canadian markets.

[chilly55]

lol, like talking to a wall. He knows nothing about the 60's & 70's yet he knows it all. You're speculating about things you know nothing about.


dd316 is spot on again.

Done with this conversation since it's going no where.

[wigglestrue]

You're applying modern day collecting sensibilities to that of nearly 50 years ago. There was absolutely a market, just not at today's levels. There were no card sleeves, no grading, no Ebay marketplace... Those who collected and cared about their cards kept them in rubber bands in boxes. Looking back, for condition, was that the smartest thing? No. But it's what they did because they were valued more than sticking them in bike spokes.

They weren't seen as precious commodities. It was a qualitatively different kind of hobby. The collectors back then might as well have been the same type of collectors who've cared about music cards the last 50 years.

And yes, there were card shops in the 1970's. They may not have been on every street corner, but they existed. Found a decent article HERE. (https://www.justcollect.com/what-happened-to-my-local-baseball-card-shop/#:~:text=A%20look%20at%20how%20baseball%20cards%20evolved%20from,and%20arranging%20to%20meet%20with%20sellers%20in%20person.)

Yeah, I had seen that article. There were EXTREMELY FEW SHOPS. Just several years before, there were ZERO shops. There was BARELY a market.

Laughable? Baseball cards absolutely DOMINATED collecting for decades. Nobody "laughed" at people collecting other sports, there just wasn't as big a demand for them so they weren't produced in the same staggering quantities as baseball really until the early 90s. I would venture to guess hockey cards were probably #2 up to that point because of both the US and Canadian markets.

Yes, people laughed at the concept of non-baseball cards. I was there, I remember. Basketball and football cards were a JOKE. Nobody cared about them. Canadians who cared about cards were collecting BEE HIVES, not cards as we know them. All non-baseball cards had roughly the same status: INCONSEQUENTIAL.

[wigglestrue]

lol, like talking to a wall. He knows nothing about the 60's & 70's yet he knows it all. You're speculating about things you know nothing about.


dd316 is spot on again.

Done with this conversation since it's going no where.

You're willfully misremembering the past.

Go take a nap.

[webjon]

Seems like 24 months ago sports card collectors were largely laughing at entertainment cards. . .

Now they are here telling entertainment card collectors that they have been doing it wrong for the last few decades.

[dd316]

They weren't seen as precious commodities. It was a qualitatively different kind of hobby. The collectors back then might as well have been the same type of collectors who've cared about music cards the last 50 years.

Yeah, I had seen that article. There were EXTREMELY FEW SHOPS. Just several years before, there were ZERO shops. There was BARELY a market.

Yes, people laughed at the concept of non-baseball cards. I was there, I remember. Basketball and football cards were a JOKE. Nobody cared about them. Canadians who cared about cards were collecting BEE HIVES, not cards as we know them. All non-baseball cards had roughly the same status: INCONSEQUENTIAL.
I don't know what else to say to help you understand. I'm gonna go take a nap, too.

[Igman7]

Seems like 24 months ago sports card INVESTORS were largely laughing at entertainment cards. . .

Now they are here telling entertainment card collectors that they have been doing it wrong for the last few decades.


Fixed it for you, Jon.


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[webjon]

Fixed it for you, Jon.


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LOL. Fair.

[Grid]

Sure, @wigglestrue is coming off as a little pompous, and in some cases down right mean. But they aren't entirely wrong.

Just speaking as a collector born and raised in Chicago, baseball cards were really the only thing most people cared for and collected in the late 70s through the 80s. Which was my period of collecting.

To the point, where most non-collectors today still call any cards, baseball cards, when speaking about them. Regardless of the actual sport.

If you wanted older baseball cards back then, you had to find a coin, stamp, hobby or even pawn shop that had a small section with them. And even then, flipping through the actual Yellow Pages, cards would be listed last in their ads.

It wasn't until the late 80's that you had actual card shops popping up by me. And by the early 90s, there were shows nearly every weekend, and multiple card shops in seemingly every neighborhood. But even then, it was all about baseball cards.

I remember when Hoops came out, and everyone wanted that David Robinson card. And when Upper Deck came out with football cards, and people were busting like crazy to find the Joe Montana or Walter Payton auto, football cards started gaining steam.

Once people had a reason to bust wax of different sports, they then turned to the older cards they were missing out on. And the sports card boom blew up in the early 90s.

For sure, you had some serious collectors of baseball cards going back to the 50s. Just not many of them. For sure you had card shows in the 70s, but they were small and infrequent and had other things, like coins and stamps.

It took awhile to get to where we are now, and while people point to the MLB strike in the mid 90s, and over production of cards and just too many people making them by the late 90s, as a sign that the hobby was dying. It was really just the internet, and mostly ebay, that killed card shops. Not a lack of hobbyists.

And for sure, no one cared about "rookie" cards in NonSports until recently. Yes, you had first appearances and sets that held more weight, and value, then others. But there was no obsession to label everything RC until lately.

I am not saying its bad for the hobby. Just saying it wasn't nearly as debated, as it has been the past 2 years, where everyone wants to tag anything that has even been produced on cardboard as a RC. I blame grading and new flippers that showed up in mass since the Pandemic.

No one is arguing "rookie" status on figures, toys, lunch boxes and other collectables.

[wigglestrue]

Sure, @wigglestrue is coming off as a little pompous, and in some cases down right mean.

Guilty as charged. Sorry.

I appreciate your input, immensely.