Sports Cards Radio reports that it's confirmed that Fanatics will purchase Panini Ame

[hoi_ming]

https://youtu.be/aIN5AefEanY

They say it's confirmed that it will happen based on their industry sources.

[kingofsnake]

If true, I hope they allocate more resources to improve their abysmal customer service.

[gomiamigo]

If true, I hope they allocate more resources to improve their abysmal customer service.

'I'll take "Things that probably will never Happen," for $300, Alex.'

[Archangel1775]

Assuming this happens, I'm curious what they do with Prizm and Topps Chrome. The Topps base set in all sports works. National Treasures in all sports works as well. Flawless also.

[dunkindutchmen]

Fanatics saw the 400 Prizm parallels this year and said enough is enough.

[k13]

Fanatics saw the 400 Prizm parallels this year and said enough is enough.

No.
They'll make 4000 now.

[SoccerRCs]

Fanatics saw the 400 Prizm parallels this year and said enough is enough.

Yeah, I mean Panini basically held them hostage by printing a ton. Like ok, you can take the license but we gonna print to the mooon and destroy your market before you ever get your hands on it.

Textbook poison pill.

[AbraCalabro]

I have high hopes, but sounds like it's going to be just as bad with Fanatics if not worse.

[whitmm]

If true, I hope they allocate more resources to improve their abysmal customer service.

They bought Topps and let them run as an independent company. They will most likely do the same thing with Panini America.

Fanatics has taken a very hands off approach in regards to actual management of the companies.

[Kopetkai]

They bought Topps and let them run as an independent company. They will most likely do the same thing with Panini America.

Fanatics has taken a very hands off approach in regards to actual management of the companies.

There's no way they do that long term. They are going to have to change things because the whole market is in flux. It would make sense for them not to rock the boat when they only owned Topps. But if they own both Topps and Panini they can get to work pushing the industry in the direction they want it to go. Probably no noticable changes in the first year or so. They want people to think it's business as usual.

[TimBuckTwo]

This is the end.

[whitmm]

There's no way they do that long term. They are going to have to change things because the whole market is in flux. It would make sense for them not to rock the boat when they only owned Topps. But if they own both Topps and Panini they can get to work pushing the industry in the direction they want it to go. Probably no noticable changes in the first year or so. They want people to think it's business as usual.

Why not? It's worked in other industries. You can still control the direction of the industry and still allow the two companies to exist. And they already owned the next round of licenses. If Fanatics truly wanted to take control start running Topps how they wanted it, they would have. GM has done just fine owning 4 different car companies.

[AbraCalabro]

This is the end.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, just curious as to what makes you think that? Things could very well get even worse, but just want to get your take on it.

[RogerGodahell]

They should have bought UD instead.

[AbraCalabro]

They should have bought UD instead.

I can get on board with this.

[ninjacookies]

They should have bought UD instead.

Except UD will never sell.

People need to let go of that pipe dream. I'm sure many have already thrown the kitchen sink at them. It would have happened by now.




Chrome > Prizm and all other Guangdong Panini clones.


This news is buns.

[whitmm]

Except UD will never sell.

People need to let go of that pipe dream. I'm sure many have already thrown the kitchen sink at them. It would have happened by now.




Chrome > Prizm and all other Guangdong Panini clones.


This news is buns.

Until Fanatics finds that sweet spot number to offer to the NHL or their players association that Upper Deck determines they can't match. Just like they did to Topps, they were given the opportunity to match Fanatics' offer and couldn't/wouldn't. Guessing it might have been the offering equity in the company to the PA

[ninjacookies]

Until Fanatics finds that sweet spot number to offer to the NHL or their players association that Upper Deck determines they can't match. Just like they did to Topps, they were given the opportunity to match Fanatics' offer and couldn't/wouldn't. Guessing it might have been the offering equity in the company to the PA



Nobody outside of k-trece cares about violent figure skating tho. :(


The only thing the 'hobby' wants UD for is MJ and Bron autos. And even in the unlikely event someone does acquire UD, those two will not be included in the deal. They demand complete likeness control, which is the exact reason why they signed exclusives with UD, because they're the only ones that would ever offer the flexibility.

[coltsfan23]

They should have bought UD instead.

I've heard Michael Jordan has a poison pill clause where his agreement with Upper Deck disappears if ownership changes hands.

[whitmm]

Nobody outside of k-trece cares about violent figure skating tho. :(


The only thing the 'hobby' wants UD for is MJ and Bron autos. And even in the unlikely event someone does acquire UD, those two will not be included in the deal. They demand complete likeness control, which is the exact reason why they signed exclusives with UD, because they're the only ones that would ever offer the flexibility.

I don't know, those Young Guns seem to sell for some good money.

And Fanatics has thrown a ton of money around to get these licenses, I could see them agreeing to meet the demands of MJ or LeBron

[ninjacookies]

I don't know, those Young Guns seem to sell for some good money.

And Fanatics has thrown a ton of money around to get these licenses, I could see them agreeing to meet the demands of MJ or LeBron

Do you honestly think MJ and Bron are about dollar figures at this stage in their careers when it comes to memorabilia, or that they haven't been offered more?

At that level of success, life becomes a game of time optimization, not monetary gain. They do not want to spend 8 hours on sitdowns signing thousands of Hoops bass and Mosaic sticker dumps.

[whitmm]

Do you honestly think MJ and Bron are about dollar figures at this stage in their careers when it comes to memorabilia, or that they haven't been offered more?

At that level of success, life becomes a game of time optimization, not monetary gain. They do not want to spend 8 hours on sitdowns signing thousands of Hoops bass and Mosaic sticker dumps.

Must have completely ignored the part where I said that Fanatics could easily decide to meet their demands.

And those two aren't the only reason Fanatics would be motivated to buy Upper Deck.

[ninjacookies]

Must have completely ignored the part where I said that Fanatics could easily decide to meet their demands.

And those two aren't the only reason Fanatics would be motivated to buy Upper Deck.

Easily? Well that settles it. Should be a slam dunk.





The 'hobby' at large doesn't care about any aspect of an UD acquisition save for MJ and Bron autos. Hockey will remain hockey, so that seems like a moot point.

[mikejones]

Must have completely ignored the part where I said that Fanatics could easily decide to meet their demands.

And those two aren't the only reason Fanatics would be motivated to buy Upper Deck.

Pretty sure Jordan and upper deck aren't making any demands in order for fanatics to buy them. It's not for sale.

[AbraCalabro]

I've heard Michael Jordan has a poison pill clause where his agreement with Upper Deck disappears if ownership changes hands.

Never heard that, but that's interesting. I wonder if it has always been that way.

Do you honestly think MJ and Bron are about dollar figures at this stage in their careers when it comes to memorabilia, or that they haven't been offered more?

At that level of success, life becomes a game of time optimization, not monetary gain. They do not want to spend 8 hours on sitdowns signing thousands of Hoops bass and Mosaic sticker dumps.

Would be hilarious if they did sign a ton more though. Just so I could see the high end squirm over value and the ensuing damage control.

[ninjacookies]

Would be hilarious if they did sign a ton more though. Just so I could see the high end squirm over value and the ensuing damage control.

https://c.tenor.com/BtRBNMWzqOwAAAAd/im-all-for-that-im-all-in.gif

[whitmm]

Pretty sure Jordan and upper deck aren't making any demands in order for fanatics to buy them. It's not for sale.

Yeah, Panini wasn't for sale either, until Fanatics acquired all the licenses from the leagues and PA's.

[whitmm]

Easily? Well that settles it. Should be a slam dunk.


The 'hobby' at large doesn't care about any aspect of an UD acquisition save for MJ and Bron autos. Hockey will remain hockey, so that seems like a moot point.

You can say whatever you want. Fanatics wouldn't try just buying UD currently. But absolutely they could go after getting the licenses for hockey.

The basketball card hobby only cares about UD for Jordan and Lebron. The hockey card hobby cares about them for different reasons

[mikejones]

Yeah, Panini wasn't for sale either, until Fanatics acquired all the licenses from the leagues and PA's.

Upper deck has been in the game for a long time compared to panini. Upper deck has somehow stayed in the hobby even after losing their licenses except hockey. They know what it takes to survive. Panini probably had no choice.

[ninjacookies]

You can say whatever you want. Fanatics wouldn't try just buying UD currently. But absolutely they could go after getting the licenses for hockey.

The basketball card hobby only cares about UD for Jordan and Lebron. The hockey card hobby cares about them for different reasons

I'd say the hockey portion of things is doing quite fine right now without the aid of Fanatics. What exactly would they need them for? It's not like Panini beisbol, where they have to aibrush out team names and logos. If anything, it just opens the door for Fanatics completely destroying and watering down the sport with a zillion different iterations of the same lines.

[whitmm]

Upper deck has been in the game for a long time compared to panini. Upper deck has somehow stayed in the hobby even after losing their licenses except hockey. They know what it takes to survive. Panini probably had no choice.

Panini lost of its major American sports licenses. Topps was about to go public...until it lost its licenses. UD would be looking at the same fate if it loses hockey

[whitmm]

I'd say the hockey portion of things is doing quite fine right now without the aid of Fanatics. What exactly would they need them for? It's not like Panini beisbol, where they have to aibrush out team names and logos. If anything, it just opens the door for Fanatics completely destroying and watering down the sport with a zillion different iterations of the same lines.

Baseball, football, and basketball were all doing just fine before Fanatics came along as well.

The leagues and PAs play a big role in the number of releases. Hockey could easily prevent Fanatics from just going crazy with products

[duron]

At least good riddance to Luber. I’ve watched multiple longform interviews, and it couldn’t have been more obvious how clueless he was. Said a whooooooole lot that meant nothing.

https://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Josh+Luber+New+York+Fashion+Week+Shows+2021+ZjIerWwPFTvx.jpg

[RogerGodahell]

I honestly don't care about new MJ or LeBron autos from UD but i'm sure a lot of people would like that. I just like a lot of the products they made and would like to see them again with a proper license.

Also ePack would be great with those licenses. I would love to see NBA, MLB, NFL products offered on that platform. But maybe they don't want it for some reason. There is a lot to like about it besides being able to instantly open a pack/box of cards. Online library where you can instantly trade with others, see other peoples collections, send cards to COMC, chat room, etc. Maybe they want breakers pushing product because it's like free advertising for them and don't want something like ePack disrupting it. I dunno.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

NEVERMIND.

[Ruffy]

i hope they make anime cards of my favorite players in the nude and in nature

[Ruffy]

At least good riddance to Luber. I’ve watched multiple longform interviews, and it couldn’t have been more obvious how clueless he was. Said a whooooooole lot that meant nothing.


Ive got to agree. He sounds stupid. Like how did he start a damn business lol

[AbraCalabro]

At least good riddance to Luber. I’ve watched multiple longform interviews, and it couldn’t have been more obvious how clueless he was. Said a whooooooole lot that meant nothing.

https://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Josh+Luber+New+York+Fashion+Week+Shows+2021+ZjIerWwPFTvx.jpg

T5hooO64dQc

[Archangel1775]

Yeah, Panini wasn't for sale either, until Fanatics acquired all the licenses from the leagues and PA's.

Upper Deck, the NHL and NHLPA just signed a new 5-Year+ agreement in late 2021. Maybe in 2027 but not seeing the benefit. UD currently has a competitive advantage ion epack.

[whitmm]

Upper Deck, the NHL and NHLPA just signed a new 5-Year+ agreement in late 2021. Maybe in 2027 but not seeing the benefit. UD currently has a competitive advantage ion epack.

And Topps and Panini still had years remaining on their licenses as well. And Fanatics came in and out bid them for the next one.

The chief brand officer said they listened to a pitch from Fanatics and said they have a great relationship with them, but decided to stick with UD at this time. One thing they liked about UD was their direct to consumer approach. At that time, Fanatics hadn't acquired Topps or Panini. He also talked about wanted to have as wide of distribution as they possibly can. UD is way stricter on where their product can be sold, especially online.

Now Fanatics has Topps and potentially Panini. There already talks of them eliminating the distributors. They have a broader distribution strategy than UD. When the time comes to negotiate the next deal, Fanatics is going to be coming from a much stronger position in the sports card industry.

Fanatics wants to be in all of the major sports for cards. They aren't going to try breaking into hockey by buying Upper Deck. They're going to come back, showing that they have the ability to succeed in the market with running Topps and Panini, and could easily throw a proposal similar to the other sports at them.

[ninjacookies]

And Topps and Panini still had years remaining on their licenses as well. And Fanatics came in and out bid them for the next one.

The chief brand officer said they listened to a pitch from Fanatics and said they have a great relationship with them, but decided to stick with UD at this time. One thing they liked about UD was their direct to consumer approach. At that time, Fanatics hadn't acquired Topps or Panini. He also talked about wanted to have as wide of distribution as they possibly can. UD is way stricter on where their product can be sold, especially online.

Now Fanatics has Topps and potentially Panini. There already talks of them eliminating the distributors. They have a broader distribution strategy than UD. When the time comes to negotiate the next deal, Fanatics is going to be coming from a much stronger position in the sports card industry.

Fanatics wants to be in all of the major sports for cards. They aren't going to try breaking into hockey by buying Upper Deck. They're going to come back, showing that they have the ability to succeed in the market with running Topps and Panini, and could easily throw a proposal similar to the other sports at them.

It's not going to happen, man.

I'm sorry.

[glassofwater]

Upper Deck, the NHL and NHLPA just signed a new 5-Year+ agreement in late 2021. Maybe in 2027 but not seeing the benefit. UD currently has a competitive advantage ion epack.


I don’t collect hockey, but topps has the stickers rights. I’m surprised they haven’t pushed the limit of that license topps had an official topps auto on its stickers at the nhl game. Don’t know how happy ud would be topps started to include autos in sticker packs

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220913/959c4d70ba6834e2cec9b726efe4393b.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[whitmm]

It's not going to happen, man.

I'm sorry.

Why, because you don't like it? Topps had a 70 year relationship with MLB...until they didn't.

Seriously, give me one legit reason why you think Fanatics has no chance at getting the NHL and NHLPA licenses. Because every reason you've thrown out so far you could have said about Topps/Panini and the NFL/MLB/NBA. They were all doing just fine without Fanatics. And if you think that hockey is just going to stay loyal to Upper Deck, you're flat out wrong, and I'm not sorry.

Or do you think I'm talking about Fanatics just trying to buy Upper Deck? Yeah, they wouldn't go after Upper Deck as their attempt to acquire the licenses. They'd do it the same way they did with the other companies.

[oldgoldy97]

At least good riddance to Luber. I’ve watched multiple longform interviews, and it couldn’t have been more obvious how clueless he was. Said a whooooooole lot that meant nothing.

https://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Josh+Luber+New+York+Fashion+Week+Shows+2021+ZjIerWwPFTvx.jpg

What is that a picture of?

[jlemire]

Why, because you don't like it? Topps had a 70 year relationship with MLB...until they didn't.

Seriously, give me one legit reason why you think Fanatics has no chance at getting the NHL and NHLPA licenses. Because every reason you've thrown out so far you could have said about Topps/Panini and the NFL/MLB/NBA. They were all doing just fine without Fanatics. And if you think that hockey is just going to stay loyal to Upper Deck, you're flat out wrong, and I'm not sorry.

Or do you think I'm talking about Fanatics just trying to buy Upper Deck? Yeah, they wouldn't go after Upper Deck as their attempt to acquire the licenses. They'd do it the same way they did with the other companies.

1 Word why they wouldn't go after Upper Deck

ANTITRUST

they buy Upper deck now they have a complete monopoly

[tmar214]

Why, because you don't like it? Topps had a 70 year relationship with MLB...until they didn't.

Seriously, give me one legit reason why you think Fanatics has no chance at getting the NHL and NHLPA licenses. Because every reason you've thrown out so far you could have said about Topps/Panini and the NFL/MLB/NBA. They were all doing just fine without Fanatics. And if you think that hockey is just going to stay loyal to Upper Deck, you're flat out wrong, and I'm not sorry.

Or do you think I'm talking about Fanatics just trying to buy Upper Deck? Yeah, they wouldn't go after Upper Deck as their attempt to acquire the licenses. They'd do it the same way they did with the other companies.

Fanatics can go for UD / the license eventually but it appears fanatics tried to buy the hockey license around the time they bought all of the others and failed. I'm not sure why UD would sell anytime soon considering their extension is just kicking in. Who knows how long exactly they have locked up the license for. One article is claiming 2026 but the wording in all the others would make it seem like they have it for much longer than that.

[whitmm]

Fanatics can go for UD / the license eventually but it appears fanatics tried to buy the hockey license around the time they bought all of the others and failed. I'm not sure why UD would sell anytime soon considering their extension is just kicking in. Who knows how long exactly they have locked up the license for. One article is claiming 2026 but the wording in all the others would make it seem like they have it for much longer than that.

Yeah, see my comment where I talked about that. The NHL's CBO talked about UD's direct to consumer approach and wanting a broad distribution strategy. At the time Fanatics didn't own Topps or Panini, which means they weren't in a position to offer direct to consumer yet. They didn't even have any licenses yet. When the next time the hockey licenses come up for renewal, Fanatics will have those things in place. They will own the other two major companies in the card industry, they'll own the printing factories, they'll have established their own distribution strategy, offering direct to customer, and they'll have a couple years worth of products and financials released under their ownership. The CBO also talked about how they have a great relationship with Fanatics in other areas. But at the time of the renewal, Fanatics didn't have all of the things the NHL was looking for.

Yes, it made sense for the NHL to stick with Upper Deck, just like it would have made sense if the NFL/NBA/MLB would have decided to stick with Topps or Panini. If you don't think that Fanatics is going to be able to offer a much stronger pitch the next time negotiations come up, you're crazy. Topps was given an opportunity to match Fanatics' offer, they decided they wouldn't/couldn't match it.

You seem to think that I'm talking about Fanatics trying to buy Upper Deck to obtain the license. Which is not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Fanatics will most likely come back to the negotiating table when the license is approaching it's expiration in a much stronger position in the card industry.

[whitmm]

1 Word why they wouldn't go after Upper Deck

ANTITRUST

they buy Upper deck now they have a complete monopoly


They wouldn't have a monopoly, nor are monopolies illegal.

Again, I'm not saying that they would try to buy Upper Deck to obtain the license. Please read what I'm saying. There is a massive difference between trying to obtain the NHL license and trying to obtain Upper Deck.

[Ruffy]

What is that a picture of?

Josh Luber being a drag queen

Sincerely,

Jimmy

[hche]

10/1 Fanatics announces they are acquiring Panini Trading Card Company's U.S. Operations.

10/2 Fanatics announces they are backing out from acquiring Panini due to it fails to disclose the large volume of outstanding redemptions in its backlog.

[whitmm]

10/1 Fanatics announces they are acquiring Panini Trading Card Company's U.S. Operations.

10/2 Fanatics announces they are backing out from acquiring Panini due to it fails to disclose the large volume of outstanding redemptions in its backlog.

Actually, this announcement would explain why Panini had been settled a large portion of the backlog of redemptions with points over the last few months.

[mikejones]

10/1 Fanatics announces they are acquiring Panini Trading Card Company's U.S. Operations.

10/2 Fanatics announces they are backing out from acquiring Panini due to it fails to disclose the large volume of outstanding redemptions in its backlog.

10/3 panini post a call out thread on blowout cards forums on Fanatics for backing out of a deal and to avoid or block them.

[gomiamigo]

Except UD will never sell.

People need to let go of that pipe dream. I'm sure many have already thrown the kitchen sink at them. It would have happened by now.


Jordan can just sign with Fanatics when his contract is up, so can Lebron. You think they want UD equity or Fanatics equity? Think hard, grasshopper!

Fanatics has real money [$20bn valuation] to make that happen, not measly Panini America money where they can't even make a redemption card ffs.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Michael_Jordan_in_2014.jpg

90% odds it happens imho. CEO Rubin has great player & team relationships and is involved in things like the Innocence Project which appeals to guys like Lebron.

And he wouldn't force them to sign thousands of stickers for prizms, obvs.

[Asian62150]

Jordan can just sign with Fanatics when his contract is up, so can Lebron. Fanatics has real money to make that happen, not Panini America money.

90% odds it happens imho.

The only way Jordan signs with Fanatics is if he wants to spend his time signing autos. I don't get the sense that he does.

MJ turned down $100M for a couple hrs of work to basically just show up and talk. Not sure Fanatics has enough to pay MJ to sit down and sign autographs. How much do superstar athletes get paid to sign? For example, what is Panini paying Luka? $2-5M to sign like 10,000 things/year?

If MJ said no to $100M for 2 hrs of smiling and talking (and this was like 5 years ago before current inflation), how much would it take for him to say yes to 2 hrs of signing autographs? $200M? $500M? How many autos is that? Let's say he signs 1 auto every 5 seconds. Just for fun, let's say he accepts $200M for 2 hrs. That's 1440 MJ autos for $140K/auto.

No way Fanatics pays that. Even if they offer MJ a piece of ownership, I'm not sure it's worth it for Fanatics. Financially maybe it makes sense for Fanatics if they're paying $500/MJ auto. That's $720K for 2 hrs of work. Pretty sure MJ is an "easy pass" at that number.

They're already cornering the market for NBA cards. Having MJ or LeBron isn't going to drastically affect their revenue where it's worth them paying anywhere close to $140K/autograph.

Also, for all living athletes, is MJ's auto the most valuable? If it is, I could see MJ not wanting to water down the value. He likes being #1. Regardless if that's true or not, in MJ's eyes, there's more downside than upside to sign autographs.

[whitmm]

The only way Jordan signs with Fanatics is if he wants to spend his time signing autos. I don't get the sense that he does.

MJ turned down $100M for a couple hrs of work to basically just show up and talk. Not sure Fanatics has enough to pay MJ to sit down and sign autographs. How much do superstar athletes get paid to sign? For example, what is Panini paying Luka? $2-5M to sign like 10,000 things/year?

If MJ said no to $100M for 2 hrs of smiling and talking (and this was like 5 years ago before current inflation), how much would it take for him to say yes to 2 hrs of signing autographs? $200M? $500M? How many autos is that? Let's say he signs 1 auto every 5 seconds. Just for fun, let's say he accepts $200M for 2 hrs. That's 1440 MJ autos for $140K/auto.

No way Fanatics pays that. Even if they offer MJ a piece of ownership, I'm not sure it's worth it for Fanatics.

They're already cornering the market for NBA cards. Having MJ or LeBron isn't going to drastically affect their revenue where it's worth them paying anywhere close to $140K/autograph.

Also, for all living athletes, is MJ's auto the most valuable? If it is, I could see MJ not wanting to water down the value. He likes being #1. Regardless if that's true or not, in MJ's eyes, there's more downside than upside to sign autographs.

How many autos does Jordan sign for Upper Deck each year? Fanatics has the capital and flexibility to offer the same type of deal UD is offering. If UD loses the hockey license, that would severely hurt the value of the company. Meaning Fanatics has ways to wait out Upper Deck.

[bigjbasketball]

The only way Jordan signs with Fanatics is if he wants to spend his time signing autos. I don't get the sense that he does.

MJ turned down $100M for a couple hrs of work to basically just show up and talk. Not sure Fanatics has enough to pay MJ to sit down and sign autographs. How much do superstar athletes get paid to sign? For example, what is Panini paying Luka? $2-5M to sign like 10,000 things/year?

If MJ said no to $100M for 2 hrs of smiling and talking (and this was like 5 years ago before current inflation), how much would it take for him to say yes to 2 hrs of signing autographs? $200M? $500M? How many autos is that? Let's say he signs 1 auto every 5 seconds. Just for fun, let's say he accepts $200M for 2 hrs. That's 1440 MJ autos for $140K/auto.

No way Fanatics pays that. Even if they offer MJ a piece of ownership, I'm not sure it's worth it for Fanatics. Financially maybe it makes sense for Fanatics if they're paying $500/MJ auto. That's $720K for 2 hrs of work. Pretty sure MJ is an "easy pass" at that number.

They're already cornering the market for NBA cards. Having MJ or LeBron isn't going to drastically affect their revenue where it's worth them paying anywhere close to $140K/autograph.

Also, for all living athletes, is MJ's auto the most valuable? If it is, I could see MJ not wanting to water down the value. He likes being #1. Regardless if that's true or not, in MJ's eyes, there's more downside than upside to sign autographs.

This is my least favorite argument as to why Fanatics can’t ever acquire UD. Who says MJ has to sign thousands of autos? He signs a few things for UD each year, and he could sign a few things for Fanatics and take the same amount of time. I don’t know the details of this $100M MJ turned down for speaking somewhere for a couple hours, but something tells me that it had a lot more to do with not wanting to be associated publicly with whoever wanted him to speak, as opposed to the actual 2 hours of time it would have taken. I don’t think MJ would have a problem signing autos for 2 hours as long as he has control over what he’s signing. If Fanatics can find a way to give MJ the same kind of control that he has with UD, then I don’t see why it can’t ever happen.

[Asian62150]

How many autos does Jordan sign for Upper Deck each year? Fanatics has the capital and flexibility to offer the same type of deal UD is offering. If UD loses the hockey license, that would severely hurt the value of the company. Meaning Fanatics has ways to wait out Upper Deck.

MJ signed that UD deal 20+ years ago. Maybe it was done in perpetuity and he's required to sign x amount of autos each year and in exchange he received an ownership stake in UD. Back in 1995 that seemed like a great deal for a player. But now that he's a billionaire? Maybe he'd rather just get bought out and not have to sign anymore. Who knows.

Based on the new MJ stuff on the UDA website and in Goodwin, he probably signs less than 5000 items. Maybe under 1000? I don't know but it isn't a lot.

You're coming from the point of view that there's a price that MJ would sign for. I'm coming from the point of view that MJ doesn't need money and his time is more valuable than whatever Fanatics can realistically offer him.

[Asian62150]

This is my least favorite argument as to why Fanatics can’t ever acquire UD. Who says MJ has to sign thousands of autos? He signs a few things for UD each year, and he could sign a few things for Fanatics and take the same amount of time. I don’t know the details of this $100M MJ turned down for speaking somewhere for a couple hours, but something tells me that it had a lot more to do with not wanting to be associated publicly with whoever wanted him to speak, as opposed to the actual 2 hours of time it would have taken. I don’t think MJ would have a problem signing autos for 2 hours as long as he has control over what he’s signing. If Fanatics can find a way to give MJ the same kind of control that he has with UD, then I don’t see why it can’t ever happen.

Fanatics could certainly acquire UD. That and getting MJ to sign are two different things.

We don't know if MJ would be required to sign for Fanatics if they acquire UD.

But let's say MJ is willing to sign 1000 items a year.

What is the most you think Fanatics would be willing to pay per auto? $1K? $10K? MJ Bulls on-card autos go for about $5K. But maybe Fanatics thinks signing MJ at a loss is worth the exposure and hype?

Even at $10K/auto (which is crazy), that's $10M. Would MJ do it for $10M?

[Deadshot]

They could also try to sign for his likeness without getting him to sign cards. That won't cost MJ hardly any time at all.

[bigjbasketball]

Fanatics could certainly acquire UD. That and getting MJ to sign are two different things.

We don't know if MJ would be required to sign for Fanatics if they acquire UD.

But let's say MJ is willing to sign 1000 items a year.

What is the most you think Fanatics would be willing to pay per auto? $1K? $10K? MJ Bulls on-card autos go for about $5K. But maybe Fanatics thinks signing MJ at a loss is worth the exposure and hype?

Even at $10K/auto (which is crazy), that's $10M. Would MJ do it for $10M?

I think you’re getting too far into the weeds with the dollar amounts. MJ is a billionaire with never-ending passive revenue streams, so he doesn’t need a penny from Fanatics. When you get to that level of wealth and stature, it’s not about the money, it’s about power and control. The reason we all got to see The Last Dance is because MJ had control and final say for what would be on the screen.

I don’t know what the details are of MJ’s contract with UD, but I don’t see what would be stopping Fanatics from at least trying to find a way to mirror that deal. Maybe it’s impossible, but I’m sure their executives are having meetings about it. I would imagine Fanatics has much more money than UD, so I don’t think that’s the issue that would be holding up those discussions.

[gomiamigo]

MJ signed that UD deal 20+ years ago. Maybe it was done in perpetuity

It wasn't. This is all known already, even if you don't know it.

I'm coming from the point of view that MJ doesn't need money and his time is more valuable than whatever Fanatics can realistically offer him.

If MJ didn't want more money he wouldn't have re-upped his UD contract.

Fanatics equity >>> UD equity. If you argue that, you're simply clueless.

This notion that people with a billion dollars are suddenly uninterested in earning more money: for themselves, for charity, for kids, for 2nd wives is totally at odds with my ~25 years experience working with them on a daily basis at multiple firms and family offices, and that of my colleagues.

[Asian62150]

I think you’re getting too far into the weeds with the dollar amounts. MJ is a billionaire with never-ending passive revenue streams, so he doesn’t need a penny from Fanatics. When you get to that level of wealth and stature, it’s not about the money, it’s about power and control. The reason we all got to see The Last Dance is because MJ had control and final say for what would be on the screen.

I don’t know what the details are of MJ’s contract with UD, but I don’t see what would be stopping Fanatics from at least trying to find a way to mirror that deal. Maybe it’s impossible, but I’m sure their executives are having meetings about it. I would imagine Fanatics has much more money than UD, so I don’t think that’s the issue that would be holding up those discussions.

Sure. Of course they're trying (or at least I hope they are). I'm saying there's very little that would interest MJ at this point, even more money or control. If he doesn't want to sign, he's not going to sign.

Maybe if they offered one single awesome-looking MJ patch auto (game used!) and randomly put it in a pack and didn't tell people which product, it would could create a Wonka-like frenzy that first year.

I just find it very unlikely that we see new MJ Bulls autos. Stranger things have happened though so I won't say it's impossible. MJ could suddenly wake up and realize he wants to give the people what they want.

[whitmm]

MJ signed that UD deal 20+ years ago. Maybe it was done in perpetuity and he's required to sign x amount of autos each year and in exchange he received an ownership stake in UD. Back in 1995 that seemed like a great deal for a player. But now that he's a billionaire? Maybe he'd rather just get bought out and not have to sign anymore. Who knows.

Based on the new MJ stuff on the UDA website and in Goodwin, he probably signs less than 5000 items. Maybe under 1000? I don't know but it isn't a lot.

You're coming from the point of view that there's a price that MJ would sign for. I'm coming from the point of view that MJ doesn't need money and his time is more valuable than whatever Fanatics can realistically offer him.

No, you are the one that said MJ would have to spend all of his time signing autos if he were to sign a deal in Fanatics. What I'm saying is that Fanatics could easily offer a similar deal in terms of number of signings, if any. And it's not just the autos. It the ability to use his name and likeness. It's been how many years since there's been licensed Jordan cards? You don't think that would be a good deal?

There's zero chance that Jordan is stuck in a contract that he signed 30 years ago.

[Asian62150]

It wasn't. This is all known already, even if you don't know it.



If MJ didn't want more money he wouldn't have re-upped his UD contract.

Fanatics equity >>> UD equity. If you argue that, you're simply clueless.

This notion that people with a billion dollars are suddenly uninterested in earning more money: for themselves, for charity, for kids, for 2nd wives is totally at odds with my ~25 years experience working with them on a daily basis at multiple firms and family offices, and that of my colleagues.

I don't think I ever said Fanatics equity >>> UD equity??? Nor did I say MJ is suddenly uninterested in making more money. I'm sure when those Brand Jordan checks roll in, he deposits them.

I'm just saying money isn't his primary motivator. It might not even be top 3 or 5 on his list anymore. Who knows? I just think if he wants to sign, he'll sign. If he doesn't, he's not going to do it just for a boatload of money.

Maybe Fanatics can offer something that MJ doesn't currently have and wants. I'm just saying whatever it is, it's probably not just money.

[Asian62150]

No, you are the one that said MJ would have to spend all of his time signing autos if he were to sign a deal in Fanatics. What I'm saying is that Fanatics could easily offer a similar deal in terms of number of signings, if any. And it's not just the autos. It the ability to use his name and likeness. It's been how many years since there's been licensed Jordan cards? You don't think that would be a good deal?

There's zero chance that Jordan is stuck in a contract that he signed 30 years ago.

When did I say he'd have to spend all his time signing autos for Fanatics? In the examples I've used, I said he would sign for about 2 hrs/year.

That would put the 4 hr work week guy to shame.

[whitmm]

When did I say he'd have to spend all his time signing autos for Fanatics? In the examples I've used, I said he would sign for about 2 hrs/year.

That would put the 4 hr work week guy to shame.

The only way Jordan signs with Fanatics is if he wants to spend his time signing autos. I don't get the sense that he does.




He's already signing autographs for UD.

He turned down an event because he didn't want to go to the event. That's not comparable to signing autographs.

You keep suggesting that Fanatics would attempt to throw all this money at him to get him to sign. There's more to getting a Jordan deal than just his auto. There's the ability to print Jordan in a Bulls uniform cards again. There's the ability to create and sell Jordan memorabilia again.

[Asian62150]

He's already signing autographs for UD.

He turned down an event because he didn't want to go to the event. That's not comparable to signing autographs.

You keep suggesting that Fanatics would attempt to throw all this money at him to get him to sign. There's more to getting a Jordan deal than just his auto. There's the ability to print Jordan in a Bulls uniform cards again. There's the ability to create and sell Jordan memorabilia again.

Does MJ care about new cards or new memorabilia? I have no idea.

Growing up in Chicago, I remember MJ releasing his own merchandise without Bulls/NBA logos on them. That stuff wasn't my favorite, but I remember he was one of the few athletes that wanted control over his own likeness to the point that he wouldn't just sign up for whatever the NBAPA was doing.

He wasn't part of the old NBA Live games even when he was a player (I think it was called Bulls vs. Lakers/Blazers/Suns back then and EA included a player on the Bulls called "#24" in his place).

Maybe he'll give his likeness so new cards can be made. But it's not a foregone conclusion that's what he wants even if it doesn't cost a minute of his time.

I mean, it's great to dream these things up and it would be cool to see new MJ stuff. But I'm just saying it's not a slam dunk we're going to see MJ Bulls cards/autos/memorabilia from Topps/Panini/Fanatics anytime soon.

[Kobe101]

I heard if Fanatics can get Loober to paint MJs nails every week he will sign with them for free.


If they did pull off getting Jordan would he be able to sign Chi Bull cards?

[KhalDrogo]

MJ will never sign again. MJ will never allow another manufacturer to use his likeness. His likeness is everything and no price can be placed on it.

[whitmm]

Does MJ care about new cards or new memorabilia? I have no idea.

Growing up in Chicago, I remember MJ releasing his own merchandise without Bulls/NBA logos on them. That stuff wasn't my favorite, but I remember he was one of the few athletes that wanted control over his own likeness to the point that he wouldn't just sign up for whatever the NBAPA was doing.

He wasn't part of the old NBA Live games even when he was a player (I think it was called Bulls vs. Lakers/Blazers/Suns back then and EA included a player on the Bulls called "#24" in his place).

Maybe he'll give his likeness so new cards can be made. But it's not a foregone conclusion that's what he wants even if it doesn't cost a minute of his time.

I mean, it's great to dream these things up and it would be cool to see new MJ stuff. But I'm just saying it's not a slam dunk we're going to see MJ Bulls cards/autos/memorabilia from Topps/Panini/Fanatics anytime soon.

If he didn't care, he wouldn't keep re-signing with Upper Deck, would he?

He's currently giving Upper Deck permission to use his likeness on cards, they just can't be in uniform. So it doesn't make sense for you to throw out the idea of "maybe he doesn't want them."

Him not being in the NBA Live games was a similar situation to Barry Bonds. Jordan opted out of the PA's shared licensing agreement. He agreed to be in the 2K games when he felt they met his standards.

[dunkindutchmen]

MJ signed that UD deal 20+ years ago. Maybe it was done in perpetuity and he's required to sign x amount of autos each year and in exchange he received an ownership stake in UD. Back in 1995 that seemed like a great deal for a player. But now that he's a billionaire? Maybe he'd rather just get bought out and not have to sign anymore. Who knows.

Based on the new MJ stuff on the UDA website and in Goodwin, he probably signs less than 5000 items. Maybe under 1000? I don't know but it isn't a lot.

You're coming from the point of view that there's a price that MJ would sign for. I'm coming from the point of view that MJ doesn't need money and his time is more valuable than whatever Fanatics can realistically offer him.

Yes, and he's also a drinker/smoker and confirmed poor sleeper who is 60 years old. So from a health perspective, he's in the wrong categories to exceed mean lifespan expectancy. As Cuban and other billionaires have stated, time is the most precious commodity, by far.

Does MJ want to spend his remaining years playing with his young kids or signing autographs for "pennies" he will never notice?

Leave it to the blowout mental midgets to project their simpleton, money-centric thought processing onto an actual billionaire in the last quartile of his life.

Money, power...... derrrrrr.

[Pathora]

I'm curious what the final numbers for this purchase will be when/if it happens. There are probably a ton of moving parts that have to be addressed before this is going to be made official.
1) The players on Panini contracts; probably not a huge deal but still something.
2) Fanatics would have to unveil how they're doing things, this move is them jumping head first into the pool basically. We've heard bits and pieces and rumors of how they'll run things from a creation/distrubution standpoint but its on once this is done.
3) The overall plan for Panini Redemptions and vision for the Panini brands in the future, what do they want to keep and get rid of.

This is probably the reason there hasn't been any previews of 22/23 products College or NBA, nor any product for NFL/Football past Prizm Draft in early November.

[beavers]

I just received an email about outstanding low value redemptions from Panini. Looks like they are trying to clear up their liabilities.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220915/c373f2275441ef31b4eb4b0610157f44.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220915/1b35b7ae8831a987b8a269fb40ed7572.jpg

[whitmm]

I just received an email about outstanding low value redemptions from Panini. Looks like they are trying to clear up their liabilities.

They started doing this before The National.

[oldgoldy97]

I just received an email about outstanding low value redemptions from Panini. Looks like they are trying to clear up their liabilities.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220915/c373f2275441ef31b4eb4b0610157f44.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220915/1b35b7ae8831a987b8a269fb40ed7572.jpg

Got the same email today so I had to look if I even had any open redemptions.

I do not.

[whitmm]

Got the same email today so I had to look if I even had any open redemptions.

I do not.

The next email will be them saying that all points must be used by a certain date or they will just send you some random cards that they determined the value of.

[oldgoldy97]

The next email will be them saying that all points must be used by a certain date or they will just send you some random cards that they determined the value of.

I wouldn’t be surprised. And by the way they value things now, 10,000 points will get you a Spud Webb auto.

[bigjbasketball]

I wouldn’t be surprised. And by the way they value things now, 10,000 points will get you a Spud Webb auto.

Except when it goes the other way. I know someone who got 150 points for a Kawhi RC auto redemption.

[AbraCalabro]

Except when it goes the other way. I know someone who got 150 points for a Kawhi RC auto redemption.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/aq6Thivv9V9lu/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[jbmm161]

Crossing my fingers I get the 2 Luka Autos I just spent $500 each on and redeemed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boxbuster7]

crickets...

[bigjbasketball]

Yeah I think this is not going to happen as quickly as some people thought. I’m betting we’ll hear more concrete news around the end of the year.

[tmar214]

Yeah I think this is not going to happen as quickly as some people thought. I’m betting we’ll hear more concrete news around the end of the year.

Yea. The fanatics buying out the printer rumor had been going around for a month by the time he posted that breaking news. Everyone expects Panini to sell at some point so sports card radio can get the attention he wants whether Panini sells next month or next year.

[auburn35]

Came across this post by spinotron and thought it was interesting. Fanatics acquiring Panini looks even stronger.

https://twitter.com/spinotronPC/status/1575852923740831746?s=20&t=H2-PnrVCwTxlBrKohVGZGg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fd6N4UjXgAMJ-ty?format=jpg&name=360x360