Panini producing fake cards in NT... this ticks me off..

[Imac7065]

I'm sick of it... there isn't a single post I can write without it being trolled anymore... forget it. Once again it's "my fault" that 4 people are trolling me.. good god

[hotbox]

Oh boy....

Edit: Maybe I'm missing something. What makes this card fake?

[hohlernr]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is wrong here?

[cardinalscards4]

Oh boy....

Edit: Maybe I'm missing something. What makes this card fake?

1920s era player with a modern patch...

[Imac7065]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is wrong here?

Rogers Hornsby never played in an era with machine sewed nylon uniforms (nor managed)... this patch in this card is 100% fake.

[Andrew Jones]

Very insightful post, especially all the facts about how the card is fake. It looks like an authentic National Treasures card to me.

[ac78217]

No stand is being made because most people in this "hobby" are in it for the thrill of the next big pool or flip.

What percentage of collectors are in this to build a collection to pass down to their children?

[Andrew Jones]

Rogers Hornsby never played in an era with machine sewed nylon uniforms (nor managed)... this patch in this card is 100% fake.

Wouldn't that make the patch fake as opposed to the card?

[hotbox]

What if a good ole patch faker got a hold on this card?

And how is the card fake? The patch is fake :)!

[Imac7065]

Very insightful post, especially all the facts about how the card is fake. It looks like an authentic National Treasures card to me.

That's the problem.. it is an authentic NT card... THE PATCH IS FAKE. The guy I got the scan from popped it himself

[SavageScott]

What about an old timers game? I have no clue just asking.

[mcgoo2]

This was brought up early. It's from his coaching days on the reds in 1953(?)

[cubs4life]

I think it was determined somewhere here on Blowout that the jersey used is actually a jersey that was worn/used by Hornsby. Obviously not a game used jersey from his playing days but an auction site was listed as certification if I remember correctly.

[mcgoo2]

I think it was determined somewhere here on Blowout that the jersey used is actually a jersey that was worn/used by Hornsby. Obviously not a game used jersey from his playing days but an auction site was listed as certification if I remember correctly.

Yep. Found the link: Hunt Auctions (http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=33&lot_num=457&lot_qual=)

[nephinfan]

So here's a question. When did they start using machine processed uniforms like this? Could they have been used at some point when Hornsby would have put on a jersey for something (managing, old-timers game, etc.)?

[onenineeightsix]

I thought it was already determined that this patch was from this jersey he wore as Manager for the Reds.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s115/redsoxnation2007/1ED90AC3-7959-4F9A-A548-1CBC49B854E2-21716-000018A23BE7D9D4_zps4aa57794.jpg

[Andrew Jones]

That's the problem.. it is an authentic NT card... THE PATCH IS FAKE. The guy I got the scan from popped it himself

Did you pull it? If not, how do you know it came out of the pack that way?

Also, what language does Panini use regarding authenticity? If they simply say the patch was game-used without identifying when and by whom it was used, technically that could be legit even assuming the patch wasn't altered after the fact.

[Imac7065]

I think it was determined somewhere here on Blowout that the jersey used is actually a jersey that was worn/used by Hornsby. Obviously not a game used jersey from his playing days but an auction site was listed as certification if I remember correctly.

I would like to see information on this.. that patch isn't authentic even in the 50's... I would conservatively estimate 1970's or newer. Hornsby passed away in 1963.. I do not believe any team was wearing polyester/nylon/mesh machine sewed uniforms at that time.

[cubs4life]

Yep. Found the link: Hunt Auctions (http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=33&lot_num=457&lot_qual=)


Boom. Case closed.

[Imac7065]

Did you pull it? If not, how do you know it came out of the pack that way?

Also, what language does Panini use regarding authenticity? If they simply say the patch was game-used without identifying the player who used it, technically that could be legit even assuming the patch wasn't altered after the fact.

you really are a piece of work man.. wow

[Imac7065]

Boom. Case closed.

this patch did not come from that jersey. You can clearly see machine sewed edges on the patch and a gray polyester or nylon swatch underneath. The edges of that jersey are also dark blue.. not red

EDIT: It is possible what appears to be gray in the scan is possibly dark blue.. however there are still no machine sewed edges in the hunt jersey.

[pnft17]

Why anybody puts any stock in game used cards always amazes me, Esp all these really old ones, with jerseys that look like they were made last week with zero use or fraying on them. In old days they used around 2 jerseys an entire season. Then jerseys got sent down and used in minors.

[onenineeightsix]

Put it to vote, or instead, email Tracy Hackler. I think it's real, just certainly not from his playing days with the Cardinals.

[Imac7065]

Put it to vote, or instead, email Tracy Hackler. I think it's real, just certainly not from his playing days with the Cardinals.

I do not know how to post a poll.. but would love to hear Tracy Hackler's response to this.

[Andrew Jones]

you really are a piece of work man.. wow

Coming from a confirmed liar, I take that as a huge compliment.

I'm sorry for sidetracking your factually-lacking rant with legitimate questions that you can't/won't answer. Carry on.

[Imac7065]

I thought it was already determined that this patch was from this jersey he wore as Manager for the Reds.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s115/redsoxnation2007/1ED90AC3-7959-4F9A-A548-1CBC49B854E2-21716-000018A23BE7D9D4_zps4aa57794.jpg

That is different than the one in the hunt auctions page? lol.. once again not machine sewed though.. I don't think a team had any modern day type uniforms until the late 1960's

[cubs4life]

this patch did not come from that jersey. You can clearly see machine sewed edges on the patch and a gray polyester or nylon swatch underneath. The edges of that jersey are also dark blue.. not red

EDIT: It is possible what appears to be gray in the scan is possibly dark blue.. however there are still no machine sewed edges in the hunt jersey.


Well, with the picture from the Hunt Auction its tough to tell, but it definitely looks like the numbers on the back of the jersey resemble a smilier stitch pattern.


At the end of the day, regardless if the patch is from the jersey, it is not inconceivable for a card company to make a mistake when they are making thousands and thousands of cards. To say that it is an intentional scheme to rip off the collectors is pretty bold based on just one card. This is not to say that I believe every card to be authentic as I know when looking at Topps products, you can find many similar examples of the above.

[lionsfan20]

I am sure he wore it at some event or they laid it on his body in his coffin or some crazy stuff like that. The authenticity statements on the cards these days is so vague who knows.

[Imac7065]

Well, with the picture from the Hunt Auction its tough to tell, but it definitely looks like the numbers on the back of the jersey resemble a smilier stitch pattern.


At the end of the day, regardless if the patch is from the jersey, it is not inconceivable for a card company to make a mistake when they are making thousands and thousands of cards. To say that it is an intentional scheme to rip off the collectors is pretty bold based on just one card. This is not to say that I believe every card to be authentic as I know when looking at Topps products, you can find many similar examples of the above.

It's a long pattern and is starting to get to me. Clearly fake bat patches, the situation with topps on the Lou Gehrig item (although I give them props for what they did)... UD being investigated for fake memorabilia by the FBI.... it gets to you.

[Imac7065]

I am sure he wore it at some event or they laid it on his body in his coffin or some crazy stuff like that. The authenticity statements on the cards these days is so vague who knows.

The NT cards say "Authentic Game Used" right on the front of the card. This is the most they have said in a long time.

Recent years we get things like "Swatch Guaranteed by Panini America" or "This relic was not used in any specific game, season, or event"

[boomersooner405]

If the owner is unhappy, I will take the card, sell it for a couple hundred, and help everyone move on. Please PM me either way, thanks!

[pnft17]

Simple fact is 99% card collectors are clueless to the game used market and card companies know it.

Just shows it here. People here have no idea what materials and tags were used on old school stuff. They think jerseys used today were same as those in 1950's...

[MetDude]

This is from the Hunt auction
http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/img33/457.jpg

now have a look at this hornsby
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/4476305-post2.html

So , at the least, I understand why people believe the patch in the OP is from the same jersey.

[Imac7065]

This is from the Hunt auction
http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/img33/457.jpg

now have a look at this hornsby
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/4476305-post2.html

So , at the least, I understand why people believe the patch in the OP is from the same jersey.

i fully believe that jersey was used however.. as already stated that jersey is not machine sewed.. and does not have a polyester/nylon patch on it lol

Important to point out... hunt does not certify that jersey as game used.. instead calling it "professional model". Could this be how they label GU materials? I do not know, but important to note IMO

[Tyler]

How do you wake up and function every day with this much stupidity rattling around your brain Jeremy?

[Cubs_rock21]

Can anyone prove this is fake or you all just speculating

[Imac7065]

Can anyone prove this is fake or you all just speculating

Sadly nothing can be "proven".. only logic can show that the jersey patch in the OP does not match the jersey shown as the one people think was cut up to make this card.

[nuccionino]

I'm really a piece of work man.. wow

I know you are. Guy gives a legit question/comment and you troll him. Looks real to me.

[cubs4life]

Sadly nothing can be "proven".. only logic can show that the jersey patch in the OP does not match the jersey shown as the one people think was cut up to make this card.

Without an up close picture of the jersey in the auction, it can not even be proven that the card and the jersey do not match.

[Imac7065]

I know you are. Guy gives a legit question/comment and you troll him. Looks real to me.

His "legit" question was trolling. Apparently you can't read the rest of his posts or just aren't aware of his history. That guy is a long term troll

[Zoop]

http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/img33/457.jpg

Matches up to me. I believe it is real, as a third party not involved in whatever spat you guys are going on about.

[fitch123]

God Imac, you are such an idiot.


Yes, that is my only contribution to this thread because there is no sense trying to convince you that you are wrong.

[nuccionino]

His "legit" question was trolling. Apparently you can't read the rest of his posts or just aren't aware of his history. That guy is a long term troll

Only you think he trolls. Everyone thinks you troll. Hence you are known as the biggest troll on the site. You literally call people trolls if they don't agree with you. It's getting real annoying how you act on this site. You report people for doing things that you do. You have some ego and man it's annoying. Just be normal. I tried staying away but man it gets annoying.

Sorry for moving away from the point of the thread. It just needed to be said.

[MetDude]

i fully believe that jersey was used however.. as already stated that jersey is not machine sewed.. and does not have a polyester/nylon patch on it lol

Important to point out... hunt does not certify that jersey as game used.. instead calling it "professional model". Could this be how they label GU materials? I do not know, but important to note IMO

As stated by you. Who is not in possession of the card and can somehow define with absolute certainty that the patch is made of polyester/nylon.

I freely admit I have no knowledge about whether or not machine stitching was used at that time. I can, however, see a white shadow every where in between the red and (blue/gray) pieces of the jersey number in the hunt listing. Zooming does not provide enough detail to see whats goin on there though.

The other point you make about how hunt lists it is interesting.

.