After the loss of Panini trust, do we really believe that autographs are from who the

[buffbills83]

Most cardboard contains the canned text along the lines of 'The following autograph was obtained... Blah... Blah... And is guaranteed to be authentic'

Would it be out of line to wonder if the fifth round WR being asked to sign 1,200 stickers had some of his boys start signing for him?

We all kind of knew the shadyness that went on behind the scenes with whatever material is inserted into 'relic' cards. Where does it stop?

[rmw10]

Wouldn't surprise me. I get autographs in person from the Ravens and I've noticed a couple of guys' autographs aren't exactly comparable to what I've received. I know there's a difference when sitting down vs. a rushed IP, but there are some that I do not believe to be real at all.

[benshobbies]

Upper Deck has issued some Stamped autos.....

Never heard that with Panini.

[freethrowtommy]

Dez Bryant?

[xbignick]

It's possible some players had different people sign their autos in some releases, at least in bowman chrome baseball.

Things like this are sad:
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/792585-mike-piazza-just-met-mike-piazza.html

[AusRam]

Pretty sure I read this happening a few years ago with a player having someone else "help" sign his cards/labels....bound to happen to some extent I suppose...

[zonacats8]

I've made this comment before, but there is a VERY simple and inexpensive fix to this problem.

When Panini ships these cards out to the players, they also include a cheapo digital camera.

The player then signs X number of cards while someone records them doing it, and with the camera still rolling, they place those cards in a whatever count snap case (thinking about 50ish cards would do the trick here) and that is then sealed with a Panini sticker (of which only one gets sent to the player).

When the player sends the cards back, they also send back the camera with said video on it.

Panini is then able to look at the cards that they know for an absolute fact were signed by the player (as they are in the separately sealed box), and can do a quick QC check on the rest of the cards they got back to make sure they look legit.

The video is then uploaded to Panini's YouTube channel for all to see.

Think about how cool it would also be if you pull a nice 1/1 auto and you then can go to their YouTube channel and watch the card actually get signed. My idea essentially is to have them record the "rarer" cards from what is sent to them, that way when you pull or buy that rare card, you can go and watch it having been signed.

So how much could that actually cost them?

They're able to use the cameras multiple times, so it's really maybe a 100 or so cameras they'd need to have sent out at any given time. I'd think they could work with a company to buy them in bulk for a cheap price, and they don't need to be of high quality

[buffbills83]

Sound idea, zona. That would be really neat.

I've gotten into vintage a lot more over the past few years for reasons such as the flawless issue. Couple that with airbrushed uniforms, exclusive rights, over production, redemptions, it has made it really hard on the modern collector.

It's sad, but I am enjoying my vintage and the rare 90s stuff a lot more than the flashy, shiny new stuff.

[wheeler281]

I have no issues with any case. If you are asking this question then probably should find a new hobby. I know Upper Deck and Topps are just glad there was not social media in the early 2000's lol

[lennox.p]

I've made this comment before, but there is a VERY simple and inexpensive fix to this problem.

When Panini ships these cards out to the players, they also include a cheapo digital camera.

The player then signs X number of cards while someone records them doing it, and with the camera still rolling, they place those cards in a whatever count snap case (thinking about 50ish cards would do the trick here) and that is then sealed with a Panini sticker (of which only one gets sent to the player).

When the player sends the cards back, they also send back the camera with said video on it.

Panini is then able to look at the cards that they know for an absolute fact were signed by the player (as they are in the separately sealed box), and can do a quick QC check on the rest of the cards they got back to make sure they look legit.

The video is then uploaded to Panini's YouTube channel for all to see.

Think about how cool it would also be if you pull a nice 1/1 auto and you then can go to their YouTube channel and watch the card actually get signed. My idea essentially is to have them record the "rarer" cards from what is sent to them, that way when you pull or buy that rare card, you can go and watch it having been signed.

So how much could that actually cost them?

They're able to use the cameras multiple times, so it's really maybe a 100 or so cameras they'd need to have sent out at any given time. I'd think they could work with a company to buy them in bulk for a cheap price, and they don't need to be of high quality


i think you have no clue how hard it is to get the player to sign these card or stickers!

some of you guys are just to selfish to understand that these players have other things to do instead to sign cards/stickers for "big kids"!!!

[Seahawks fan]

I dont think they do. If they were going to forge autos you'd think they would do it ON CARD since that would help sales/give collectors what they want. There are tons of pics of rcs signing countless sheets at the rc premier and there arent that many vet autos out there

[freethrowtommy]

For the record, I don't have any concerns with any of the Panini cards I have in my collection... or Upper Deck... or Topps.

[rcgdodge]

i think you have no clue how hard it is to get the player to sign these card or stickers!

some of you guys are just to selfish to understand that these players have other things to do instead to sign cards/stickers for "big kids"!!!

Really..............

[packman80]

Just get a collector who has tons of money to burn to get questionable card auto's looked at by a hand writing expert. If said expert said that the card is not signed by said player file a class action lawsuit against the card company for false advertising when they claim are claiming it's a real autograph by said player. That happens I am willing to bet card companies would be more strict in product control so they would avoid a future lawsuit.

[rmw10]

I dont think they do. If they were going to forge autos you'd think they would do it ON CARD since that would help sales/give collectors what they want. There are tons of pics of rcs signing countless sheets at the rc premier and there arent that many vet autos out there

The players couldn't care less about value.

[oldgoldy97]

A lot of these players had someone do their schoolwork in college. Why would they suddenly start doing their "homework" of signing cards/stickers on their own after college???

[Tvanho]

Just get a collector who has tons of money to burn to get questionable card auto's looked at by a hand writing expert. If said expert said that the card is not signed by said player file a class action lawsuit against the card company for false advertising when they claim are claiming it's a real autograph by said player. That happens I am willing to bet card companies would be more strict in product control so they would avoid a future lawsuit.

Or get more vague in their wording like with the jersey relics.

[rmw10]

A lot of these players had someone do their schoolwork in college. Why would they suddenly start doing their "homework" of signing cards/stickers on their own after college???

Exactly. For most players, they just ship them pages of stickers for them to sign. There are no checks whatsoever. You know some guys are going to scoot the systems and have a friend or family member sign on their behalf.

[cking]

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc470/SuperZeke50/Autographs/IMG_0013-1.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/SuperZeke50/media/Autographs/IMG_0013-1.jpg.html)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b310/MLKMAN/Traded/WhitneyMerciluslimitedauto_zps56d33327.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/MLKMAN/media/Traded/WhitneyMerciluslimitedauto_zps56d33327.jpg.html)


I do not care what anyone says. There are not signed by the same person. It is physically impossible to improve ones penmanship in the very short period between the release of these products.

I understand an athletes need to shorten there auto due to the sheer volume they have to sign, I get it.

However, someone cannot go from childlike scribble to virtual perfect handwritng in just a few shorts months.........It cannot be done. By anyone.


Here poses my next question



Which scenario do you think is worse


A-Panini was too dumb to see the difference in the autos


OR


B-Panini saw the difference in the autos and did not care and used them anyway


I will go with B

[bstraw53]

I know my Alshons are legit. He has horrible handwriting. His auto has changed a few times, but the horrible writing stays consistent.

[dashcounter]

There is no reason for them to fake an autograph...they pay guys the money to do it...
imagine if they didnt...the players would see their own autograph cards and there would be a news story off of that

what they get back in the mail could be suspicious though.

[mnvikingstwins]

I've made this comment before, but there is a VERY simple and inexpensive fix to this problem.

When Panini ships these cards out to the players, they also include a cheapo digital camera.

The player then signs X number of cards while someone records them doing it, and with the camera still rolling, they place those cards in a whatever count snap case (thinking about 50ish cards would do the trick here) and that is then sealed with a Panini sticker (of which only one gets sent to the player).

When the player sends the cards back, they also send back the camera with said video on it.

Panini is then able to look at the cards that they know for an absolute fact were signed by the player (as they are in the separately sealed box), and can do a quick QC check on the rest of the cards they got back to make sure they look legit.

The video is then uploaded to Panini's YouTube channel for all to see.

Think about how cool it would also be if you pull a nice 1/1 auto and you then can go to their YouTube channel and watch the card actually get signed. My idea essentially is to have them record the "rarer" cards from what is sent to them, that way when you pull or buy that rare card, you can go and watch it having been signed.

So how much could that actually cost them?

They're able to use the cameras multiple times, so it's really maybe a 100 or so cameras they'd need to have sent out at any given time. I'd think they could work with a company to buy them in bulk for a cheap price, and they don't need to be of high quality

Or just have them take a video on their phone to send. 90% at least of the guys that'd be signing have a smart phone.

[rmw10]

There is no reason for them to fake an autograph...they pay guys the money to do it...
imagine if they didnt...the players would see their own autograph cards and there would be a news story off of that

what they get back in the mail could be suspicious though.

The question isn't Panini faking an autograph on behalf of the player. The question is whether or not these guys get a shipment of stickers, realize it's a ridiculous amount, and pass it off to a buddy or family member to do.

[hempick]

I only really collect one player and all of his on card autos look exactly the same to me. That said, who really knows?

[panther252]

I've made this comment before, but there is a VERY simple and inexpensive fix to this problem.

When Panini ships these cards out to the players, they also include a cheapo digital camera.

The player then signs X number of cards while someone records them doing it, and with the camera still rolling, they place those cards in a whatever count snap case (thinking about 50ish cards would do the trick here) and that is then sealed with a Panini sticker (of which only one gets sent to the player).

When the player sends the cards back, they also send back the camera with said video on it.

Panini is then able to look at the cards that they know for an absolute fact were signed by the player (as they are in the separately sealed box), and can do a quick QC check on the rest of the cards they got back to make sure they look legit.

The video is then uploaded to Panini's YouTube channel for all to see.

Think about how cool it would also be if you pull a nice 1/1 auto and you then can go to their YouTube channel and watch the card actually get signed. My idea essentially is to have them record the "rarer" cards from what is sent to them, that way when you pull or buy that rare card, you can go and watch it having been signed.

So how much could that actually cost them?

They're able to use the cameras multiple times, so it's really maybe a 100 or so cameras they'd need to have sent out at any given time. I'd think they could work with a company to buy them in bulk for a cheap price, and they don't need to be of high quality

Cheapo camera or not, you're giving the players way too much credit. I'd bet over half of them would keep the camera thinking it's some sort of free swag. Remember the story I told you about the LCS owner arranging to send in jerseys to be signed and some of the players keeping them and the money lol.

[k13]

Would you really want to sign 5000 cards ???

I sign my cc a few time a day and get tired of it...lol

Who #@#@#@#@en knows...everything about money and no integrity.

[ejs23]

i think you have no clue how hard it is to get the player to sign these card or stickers!

some of you guys are just to selfish to understand that these players have other things to do instead to sign cards/stickers for "big kids"!!!

you only think it's hard to get players to sign because Panini always blames the athletes.

who cares if the players have other things to do... no one is forcing them to sign. if they don't want to sign cards, then don't do it. pretty simple.

[ManInTheMirror]

Would you really want to sign 5000 cards ???

If I am being paid to do it? Yes.

[mnvikingstwins]

If I am being paid to do it? Yes.

Even for fun, sure. Especially considering if I'm bored and am working with notebook paper I'll fill up the margin like it's 25 sticker autos.

[Stat Monsters]

The card companies should limit the number of cards signed by each player and do "on card" only.

If you look at athletes like Brandin Cooks, his signature evolved from when he signed for Press Pass with a long signature, to what essentially is a "B C" initial on cards he's signed probably due to the high demand of having to sign thousands of stickers, which it's so easy to get lazy to autograph.

So, is what the fans really getting a true autograph, or a quick initial (much like how on some documents they say initial each page and sign it in full at the end), which actually isn't an autograph, it's an initial.

The stickers are horrible and the companies have poor quality control, allowing stickers where the signature isn't centered and trails off the sticker, so it's an incomplete signature. Again, is that a real autograph in the eyes of a collector if it's cut off?

If Joe Montana were sign a few stickers and give them to you, and you decided to stick it on a Football, a Jersey or a BMW, do you now have an autographed football, jersey and car? So, why does signing a sticker and putting it on a card make it an autographed card?

I'd hope the hobby evolves to recognize the prestige of an autograph. Even the card companies grade based on the card company's authentication, but don't really scrutinize the autograph as a good example or a bad one of the athlete's signature. Sure, Beckett (BGS) grades autographs based on ink density and completeness, but it's rather subjective, 'tho kudos to them for trying, and to me, any autograph less than a BGS 10 grade is flawed in a major way.

[chipmaster]

Babe Ruth has "Clubhouse" signed baseballs and that was close to 100 years ago......It is rumored that Michael Jordan has used an Autopen at times.

It's always happened, and always will. Remember Dez Bryant's rookie autos as someone mentioned? Unless Panini is onsite giving Blumpkins, there's no ironclad (Panini's word choice) guarantee.

[Sooner]

Cam Newton's hand signed cards which he autographs at events have one signature while all his sticker autos have a different signature.

Same guy signs his name differently in public and on card than he does on sticker and in his house? Don't think so. Cam Newton's sticker autos are signed by his agent.

[lionsfan20]

Maybe we should start tweeting or asking players themselves to get some answers since panini will never come clean?? I know most players will just ignore or deflect but I could see one or two players being honest about this kind of thing. Someone like Arian Foster maybe?? He seems to not really care what the NFL or someone like Panini would like him to be saying so he may answer his fans questions honestly. Just a thought I may be completely wrong.

[chipmaster]

Maybe we should start tweeting or asking players themselves to get some answers since panini will never come clean?? I know most players will just ignore or deflect but I could see one or two players being honest about this kind of thing. Someone like Arian Foster maybe?? He seems to not really care what the NFL or someone like Panini would like him to be saying so he may answer his fans questions honestly. Just a thought I may be completely wrong.

Ask RG3 why he has 3 different autographs on his Contenders RC's

Tell him I said Big Ups while you're at it

[ernieren]

i think you have no clue how hard it is to get the player to sign these card or stickers!

some of you guys are just to selfish to understand that these players have other things to do instead to sign cards/stickers for "big kids"!!!

You are right players do have other things to do. But they are also getting paid for this. Plus cards are part of the game one with companies promoting teams and players. Plus all the money these companies pay to get these rights goes into players pockets.

[Clarka3]

if Panini wanted to pay me to run around the country to personally witness players signing, I would totally do it...

[deltapi1049]

I HAVE SAID THIS FOR A LONG TIME - Panini does most of their signings through the agents of the players instead of live. This means there is no interested third party who they can trust. They literally just have to trust the agent. You really think the agent is going to throw his guy under the bus? Cmon.

Check out Cordarrelle Patterson's autographs from Topps and everyone else vs the ones in Treasures and many of the later Panini products. We can tell he signed a few legit in Spectra and contenders, but gave up halfway through.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm261/sportscardsuncensored/Capture_zpsa4e97431.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/sportscardsuncensored/media/Capture_zpsa4e97431.jpg.html)

I talked to a few guys from the authenticators and none of them though the autos matched.

[xavieronly1]

If I am being paid to do it? Yes.

You would do it because you have a crap job right now. Those players earn so much that even a $3/auto for 5000 stickers is nothing for them. They can easily pay some family members to do it with $5000 for one sitting, and that player still keeps $10k in the pocket.

Most importantly, you don't get caught by having someone else to sign the auto.

[rmw10]

I HAVE SAID THIS FOR A LONG TIME - Panini does most of their signings through the agents of the players instead of live. This means there is no interested third party who they can trust. They literally just have to trust the agent. You really think the agent is going to throw his guy under the bus? Cmon.

Check out Cordarrelle Patterson's autographs from Topps and everyone else vs the ones in Treasures and many of the later Panini products. We can tell he signed a few legit in Spectra and contenders, but gave up halfway through.


I talked to a few guys from the authenticators and none of them though the autos matched.

I know you're one of the biggest Panini haters around, but let's not pretend that Topps is 100% innocent either. Check out Bernard Pierce's Inception autos. You'll find a stark difference there.

[deltapi1049]

I know you're one of the biggest Panini haters around, but let's not pretend that Topps is 100% innocent either. Check out Bernard Pierce's Inception autos. You'll find a stark difference there.

They got hit on Cam Newton stickers too, but then they stopped going to him.

Im not aware of any inception issues, especially because those are all signed in person at the rookie premiere.

[rmw10]

They got hit on Cam Newton stickers too, but then they stopped going to him.

Im not aware of any inception issues, especially because those are all signed in person at the rookie premiere.

Not Pierce. They were redemptions for the longest time. Panini has some very questionable Pierce as well. I'm just saying that Topps isn't in the clear either.

[callou2131]

Wow looks like cam newton has his agent, brother in law, ex wifes cousin, and high scool history teacher signing. Alot of different versions and none of them are even close.

[callou2131]

Not even close

[deltapi1049]

Not Pierce. They were redemptions for the longest time. Panini has some very questionable Pierce as well. I'm just saying that Topps isn't in the clear either.

DEFINITELY NOT. UD has problems, everyone has problems. Didnt realize Pierce was a redemption.

The difference is both UD and Topps stop requesting autographs from that player, Panini keeps going back.

[oldgoldy97]

You would do it because you have a crap job right now. Those players earn so much that even a $3/auto for 5000 stickers is nothing for them. They can easily pay some family members to do it with $5000 for one sitting, and that player still keeps $10k in the pocket.

Most importantly, you don't get caught by having someone else to sign the auto.

Lol.

You think he has a job.

[Kollectornet]

Cam Newton's hand signed cards which he autographs at events have one signature while all his sticker autos have a different signature.

Same guy signs his name differently in public and on card than he does on sticker and in his house? Don't think so. Cam Newton's sticker autos are signed by his agent.



Some guys do change up their public signatures compared to sigs for companies. I know Kobe does for sure and I wouldn't doubt that Cam wouldn't. I personally would have to see both (Cam) but some players do because they know a lot of people sell them and not keep the autograph so the change it.

[LsujoeyLsu]

Serious question....aren't most of the topps chrome rookies signed at the premiere?

[Lockdown32]

Why in the world would a player incriminate themselves. They sign a contract. They would be sued if they don't sign their cards and admit to it.

Maybe we should start tweeting or asking players themselves to get some answers since panini will never come clean?? I know most players will just ignore or deflect but I could see one or two players being honest about this kind of thing. Someone like Arian Foster maybe?? He seems to not really care what the NFL or someone like Panini would like him to be saying so he may answer his fans questions honestly. Just a thought I may be completely wrong.

[xavieronly1]

Why in the world would a player incriminate themselves. They sign a contract. They would be sued if they don't sign their cards and admit to it.

The world must be so perfect that no one will break any contract or commit a crime.

In all serious, it takes much more research for Panini to spot fake autos than putting them on the card which people will buy them anyway.

[mattfastiggi]

This is why I'm refraining from autographs of this era.....and sticking to the rare inserts. I think the short print ones will end up more valuable than the supersaturated autograph and jersey market, and to me they're more wholesome - no concern of legitimacy

[rcgdodge]

This is why I'm refraining from autographs of this era.....and sticking to the rare inserts. I think the short print ones will end up more valuable than the supersaturated autograph and jersey market, and to me they're more wholesome - no concern of legitimacy


Hmmm. Rare inserts?!!! Not a terrible idea actually.

I could do in person phillies at shows and rare inserts. Maybe even rookie cards or something super appealing.

Interesting.