RG3 down again

[jason122883]

Not sure how serious, didnt look bad. Has been lying on the ground for the last few minutes

[jason122883]

Got up and walked off, so good news is, it doesn't look to be his knees

[jason122883]

Shoulder and Concussion symptoms

[SPCRD]

I'm a huge Cowboys fan and hate Redskins but I want to actually see him show everyone he is good.. But I don't think any QB would want to be behind the Redskins o-line.. Guess everyone will blame RG3 again lol

[duwal]

I'm a huge Cowboys fan and hate Redskins but I want to actually see him show everyone he is good.. But I don't think any QB would want to be behind the Redskins o-line.. Guess everyone will blame RG3 again lol


The problem is he looks to be on a long list of QB's that are college good but does not translate into pro good

[jason122883]

That O Line has done him NO favors. He got crushed all night

[armyatc22]

Right side stinger lol

[Wisconsinboy42]

That O-Line has serious problems and RG3 wont do much without something changing

[RogerGodahell]

The problem is he looks to be on a long list of QB's that are college good but does not translate into pro good

That's because a QB is meant to throw the ball not run it every play. Works in college not in the NFL when everyone is big and just as fast as they are.

[oaklandasfan]

but he said hes the best qb in the nfl

[pgisback]

The problem is he looks to be on a long list of QB's that are college good but does not translate into pro good

He had one of the best if not the best RC season in the history of the NFL. No one planned on all these injuries. In the last 4 years, he has won a Heisman, won the NFL ROY, and struggled for 2 seasons with injuries.

[duwal]

He had one of the best if not the best RC season in the history of the NFL. No one planned on all these injuries. In the last 4 years, he has won a Heisman, won the NFL ROY, and struggled for 2 seasons with injuries.

No one planned on it but just about everyone could have predicted it. The guy does not have a physique that would be able to take all of the punishment and be durable. Now that teams have seen what his traits are after seeing his first season they made adjustments to give him no space and try to figure out how to read defenses and make a play in the pocket instead of scrambling and he hasn't figured that out yet

[pgisback]

No one planned on it but just about everyone could have predicted it. The guy does not have a physique that would be able to take all of the punishment and be durable. Now that teams have seen what his traits are after seeing his first season they made adjustments to give him no space and try to figure out how to read defenses and make a play in the pocket instead of scrambling and he hasn't figured that out yet

No one predicted that. His rookie season proved he is a legit NFL quarterback. He was injured towards the end and has had injury problems since. Any Redskins fan knows there are far more problems with the skins than RG3. Their O'line, their defense, dropping passing, injuries, etc, etc. RG3 has good enough stats to be a starter in the NFL. He does not commit very many turnovers, he has great arm strength, great speed if he's not injured. He's a great qb, the Redskins as a team just sucks. No qb succeeds there.

[Wolves4Life]

but he said hes the best qb in the nfl

He can be best QB (behind Rodgers and Brady) with an offensive line.

[zonacats8]

No one predicted that. His rookie season proved he is a legit NFL quarterback. He was injured towards the end and has had injury problems since. Any Redskins fan knows there are far more problems with the skins than RG3. Their O'line, their defense, dropping passing, injuries, etc, etc. RG3 has good enough stats to be a starter in the NFL. He does not commit very many turnovers, he has great arm strength, great speed if he's not injured. He's a great qb, the Redskins as a team just sucks. No qb succeeds there.

What are you talking about?

Everyone predicted that would happen to him

RG3 and Cam play similar styles of game except Cam is built like a DE while RG3 is built like a punter

This was very predictable

[chitownbears22]

Did anyone actually watch him play? He held the ball for far too long all game. There is a reason why he is getting hit constantly. The broadcasters kept blaming the OL (who played decently, but not great).

You are going to get sacked 60 times a year if your play progression is:

1. Snap
2. Step back
3. Lift head and read the field (that is right, he is not reading the coverage when dropping back LOL)
4. First read not available, attempt second read while figuring out where to run, oh there is the open man. SACK or hit while throwing!!!!

The guy has 3 seconds to throw on almost every play without getting hit or pressured. That is plenty of time to get the ball out of your hands. The second problem is that he step up into a broken pocket. Why the hell are you getting closer to the defenders as protection breaks down (natural event in a long duration play).

Then Colt McCoy steps on the field and he makes the correct pre-snap read and gets rid of the ball quick. He is not special, but he also doesn't take a beating...

[pgisback]

What are you talking about?

Everyone predicted that would happen to him

RG3 and Cam play similar styles of game except Cam is built like a DE while RG3 is built like a punter

This was very predictable

No one predicted him winning the ROY, leading the Redskins to the playoffs, and having one of the greatest RC seasons in the history of the NFL. People make baseless predictions that all running qbs will get injured. He won the ROY. Lasted a whole season and dominated the NFL. Fluke knee injury towards the end of the season. Even lead them to a 14-0 lead in the playoffs before his knee gave out. Making baseless claims that any running qb will get injured is ridiculous.

[chitownbears22]

No one "predicted" it. People say that about any running qbs. He won the ROY. Last a whole season and dominated the NFL. Fluke knee injury towards the end of the season. Even lead them to a 14-0 lead in the playoffs before his knee gave out. Making baseless claims that any running qb will get injured is ridiculous.

It is not all running QBs that get hurt, it is only the ones that are too stupid to slide and protect themselves.

RGIII has always been too stupid to protect himself, which led to people thinking he would get injured, and then ultimately he got injured...

Funny how that works.

No one says anything about Cam getting hurt running because he protects himself by sliding and not taking the huge hit, Kaep does the same, same with Wilson, same with Rodgers, same with Cutler, same with Bridgewater, same with Tannehill, same with.....you get the point.

[pgisback]

RG3 has a higher career passer rating than Andrew Luck. 40 tds and only 23 ints, those are not numbers of a qb that cannot play in the NFL. The dude can play qb as long as hes healthy. The Redskins have far more issues than RG3.

[pgisback]

It is not all running QBs that get hurt, it is only the ones that are too stupid to slide and protect themselves.

RGIII has always been too stupid to protect himself, which led to people thinking he would get injured, and then ultimately he got injured...

Funny how that works.

No one says anything about Cam getting hurt running because he protects himself by sliding and not taking the huge hit, Kaep does the same, same with Wilson, same with Rodgers, same with Cutler, same with Bridgewater, same with Tannehill, same with.....you get the point.

No one knew he was going to get hurt. He won the ROY and dominated his rookie season. Obviously he was able to run on NFL teams before his fluke knee injury. Even Tom Brady lost a season by a fluke accident. RG3 injured himself last season without contact. Has nothing to do with him "not protecting himself". Just unfortunate injuries. He's obviously capable of playing in the NFL though. He has very good numbers when he's on the field. The team around him just sucks.

[chitownbears22]

RG3 has a higher career passer rating than Andrew Luck. 40 tds and only 23 ints, those are not numbers of a qb that cannot play in the NFL. The dude can play qb as long as hes healthy. The Redskins have far more issues than RG3.

Don't forget his 14 fumbles lost out of 32 total fumbles......

Also don't forget to show off his fancy numbers since his injury:

20 TD 18 Ints

This dude has been on fire!!!! The NFL definitely doesn't have him figured out. LB spy + 5 DB = dumpster fire!!!!!!

[chitownbears22]

No one knew he was going to get hurt. He won the ROY and dominated his rookie season. Obviously he was able to run on NFL teams before his fluke knee injury. Even Tom Brady lost a season by a fluke accident. RG3 injured himself last season without contact. Has nothing to do with him "not protecting himself". Just unfortunate injuries. He's obviously capable of playing in the NFL though. He has very good numbers when he's on the field. The team around him just sucks.

He is not capable of playing in the NFL. He is not a good pocket QB. He was only a threat when he could run, but he got injured and now he is a bad 1-dimensional QB. I can name 5 backups that are better than him in his current state.

[pgisback]

Don't forget his 14 fumbles lost out of 32 total fumbles......

Also don't forget to show off his fancy numbers since his injury:

20 TD 18 Ints

This dude has been on fire!!!! The NFL definitely doesn't have him figured out. LB spy + 5 DB = dumpster fire!!!!!!

Lmao, 20 tds and 18 ints for a qb with no offensive line. Plus the NFL didn't figure him out. He had a knee brace on and couldn't even run. You must not watch much football.

[pgisback]

He is not capable of playing in the NFL. He is not a good pocket QB. He was only a threat when he could run, but he got injured and now he is a bad 1-dimensional QB. I can name 5 backups that are better than him in his current state.

He has a higher career QB rating than Andrew Luck. 90.6 qb rating, 40 tds, 23 ints. Yea, he's not capable of playing in the NFL. Lmao. Some peoples kids.

[chitownbears22]

Lmao, 20 tds and 18 ints for a qb with no offensive line. Plus the NFL didn't figure him out. He had a knee brace on and couldn't even run. You must not watch much football.

Washington last year:

McCoy/Cousins: 2.7 sacks per game
RGIII: 4.7 sacks per game

Those are facts. Why does the Wash OL only suck when RGIII is in the game? Is it because of what I posted in post #16 in this thread? The answer is yes. The reason RGIII gets sacked, is because he sucks in the pocket and is too slow to make decisions. He makes poor pre-snap reads, he steps into pressure, he doesn't keep his eyes down the field during the play, etc. If you hold the ball for longer than 3 seconds in the NFL, no matter who you have on your OL, you are going to get killed.

I am sure the next thing you will do is blame the WRs, if that is what you are going to do I cannot help you unless you have access for 22-film. You would be appalled how many open shots he misses because he is not looking.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/11/19/chris-cooley-rgiii-was-so-bad-i-cant-assess-the-rest-of-the-redskins-offense/

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/greg-cosell-s-film-review--robert-griffin-iii-s-issues-214738329.html

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/u7WhguITaHjZrBlBkgPwCw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NQ--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2014-11-21/1ac514d0-71cf-11e4-8433-931d6a4a1b98_rg3ONE112114.jpg

Robert Griffin is trash, and that is because of him, not the people around him. You sound like his dad/handler.

[chitownbears22]

He has a higher career QB rating than Andrew Luck. 90.6 qb rating, 40 tds, 23 ints. Yea, he's not capable of playing in the NFL. Lmao. Some peoples kids.

Yeah and 20/5 of that came his rookie year. He is 20/18 since, and that is because he is no longer a threat running.

I guess living in the past is the only thing you can do if you like RGIII. The last two years he has been a dumpster fire, you have to look back 3 years ago to find something positive about RGIII. You sound like Chicago fans with Cutler every year, and it is hilarious to watch the homers thing "THIS IS THE YEAR!!!!!"

[pgisback]

Washington last year:

McCoy/Cousins: 2.7 sacks per game
RGIII: 4.7 sacks per game

Those are facts. Why does the Wash OL only suck when RGIII is in the game? Is it because of what I posted in post #16 in this thread? The answer is yes. The reason RGIII gets sacked, is because he sucks in the pocket and is too slow to make decisions. He makes poor pre-snap reads, he steps into pressure, he doesn't keep his eyes down the field during the play, etc. If you hold the ball for longer than 3 seconds in the NFL, no matter who you have on your OL, you are going to get killed.

I am sure the next thing you will do is blame the WRs, if that is what you are going to do I cannot help you unless you have access for 22-film. You would be appalled how many open shots he misses because he is not looking.

Robert Griffin is trash, and that is because of him, not the people around him. You sound like his dad/handler.

You obviously don't watch football. RG3 gets more sacks because he attempts to run. McCoy and Cousins just throw the ball away or throw interceptions and are horribly inconsistent. They are embarrassing quarterbacks. You act like the Redskins were good with them under center. RG3 gives them their best chance of winning. And multiple games RG3 was screwed by drop passes, oline, and the defense. No one could win with that skins squad.

[chitownbears22]

You obviously don't watch football. RG3 gets more sacks because he attempts to run. McCoy and Cousins just throw the ball away or throw interceptions and are horribly inconsistent. They are embarrassing quarterbacks. You act like the Redskins were good with them under center. RG3 gives them their best chance of winning. And multiple games RG3 was screwed by drop passes, oline, and the defense. No one could win with that skins squad.

I guess you just ignored everything in the Cosell link...

It is ok, enjoy watching your garbage QB, and blaming everyone but the guy who is actually to blame. I always enjoy a good dumpster fire, and it is even more enjoyable when you find the homer that didn't realize it was happening...

[pgisback]

Yeah and 20/5 of that came his rookie year. He is 20/18 since, and that is because he is no longer a threat running.

I guess living in the past is the only thing you can do if you like RGIII. The last two years he has been a dumpster fire, you have to look back 3 years ago to find something positive about RGIII. You sound like Chicago fans with Cutler every year, and it is hilarious to watch the homers thing "THIS IS THE YEAR!!!!!"

20/18 with a knee brace on and coming off a dislocated ankle with multiple offensive schemes. That is not that bad. Actually pretty impressive. 20/5 as a RC. Now that is quality. You act like he can't play in the NFL and then you present numbers which prove he can. It's hilarious.

[chitownbears22]

20/18 with a knee brace on and coming off a dislocated ankle with multiple offensive schemes. That is not that bad. Actually pretty impressive. 20/5 as a RC. Now that is quality. You act like he can't play in the NFL and then you present numbers which prove he can. It's hilarious.

http://replygif.net/i/166.gif

I guess someone had to fill the "Homer Redskin Fan" title now that Addicted36 has departed us. You get the crown. GL defending RGIII, Snyder, and your racist team name...

Bold....I love when RGIII was a rookie card!

[pgisback]

I guess you just ignored everything in the Cosell link...

It is ok, enjoy watching your garbage QB, and blaming everyone but the guy who is actually to blame. I always enjoy a good dumpster fire, and it is even more enjoyable when you find the homer that didn't realize it was happening...

The skins are a bad team. Has nothing to do with RG3. RG3 gives the skins the best chance of winning when he is healthy. He protects the ball, has a strong arm, and can run. You act like they were good when RG3 wasn't under center. But I understand you are a bears fan, so you're pretty cranky. I've learned to deal with it in a more positive way.

[pgisback]

I guess someone had to fill the "Homer Redskin Fan" title now that Addicted36 has departed us. You get the crown. GL defending RGIII, Snyder, and your racist team name...

Bold....I love when RGIII was a rookie card!

You're embarrassing yourself.

[pgisback]

This happened in the last 4 years. Yea, RG3 can't play quarterback, lmao!! I'd be mad if I were a Bears fan also.


http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/nfl-honors-rg3.jpg

http://mit.zenfs.com/214/2011/12/Griffin-Heisman.jpg

[chitownbears22]

You're embarrassing yourself.

I don't think I am...

I think that you ignoring reality and facts is a bit disappointing. The world needs believers, so thanks for filling that void.

[chitownbears22]

This happened in the last 4 years. Yea, RG3 can't play quarterback, lmao!! I'd be mad if I were a Bears fan also.


http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/nfl-honors-rg3.jpg

http://mit.zenfs.com/214/2011/12/Griffin-Heisman.jpg

This happened too:

https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/NkwIkZzsbrsey1eHvfAJsgeOi4c=/0x58:4000x2725/730x487/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/6174005/159046902.0.jpg

I am not made because I am a Bears fan. This isn't a Bears thread, so stay on topic. Deflecting makes you look weaker (I use -er, because well past evidence). I am not blind much like you, look at my posts on the Bears, I am pragmatic, not delusional and stupid...

[pgisback]

I don't think I am...

I think that you ignoring reality and facts is a bit disappointing. The world needs believers, so thanks for filling that void.

The facts show that RG3 is a capable NFL quarterback. Not sure what facts you are talking about. The skins are just a bad team. You even said he threw 20 tds and 18 ints after his injury. That's not that bad. Heck, Blake Bortles last year threw 11 tds and 17 ints healthy and people still think he has potential. You're just envious of the guy because he had so much success. Not a good look for you.

[pgisback]

This happened too:
I am not made because I am a Bears fan. This isn't a Bears thread, so stay on topic. Deflecting makes you look weaker (I use -er, because well past evidence). I am not blind much like you, look at my posts on the Bears, I am pragmatic, not delusional and stupid...

Yea man, he had a serious injury in a playoff game with a team that rarely makes the playoffs in a season he won the rookie of the year and was 3rd in QB passer rating. Not sure what that proves. You're coming off as kind of a weird person, especially trying to show his injury as if that makes him a bad qb. Kind of creepy.

[chitownbears22]

The facts show that RG3 is a capable NFL quarterback. Not sure what facts you are talking about. The skins are just a bad team. You even said he threw 20 tds and 18 ints after his injury. That's not that bad. Heck, Blake Bortles last year threw 11 tds and 17 ints healthy and people still think he has potential. You're just envious of the guy because he had so much success. Not a good look for you.

Bortles was a rookie, not in his 3rd year.

RGIII is terrible, I would rather trot out no QB than RGIII. He has had no success in the past 2 years. I am not envious of him in any way. I hoped he would be good, he was fun to watch as a rookie, but now he sucks and is an egomaniac who is ruining a team.

He got injured yesterday fumbling a ball after not being hit, he fumbled the ball running LOL what an inept loser.

[pgisback]

Bortles was a rookie, not in his 3rd year.

RGIII is terrible, I would rather trot out no QB than RGIII. He has had no success in the past 2 years. I am not envious of him in any way. I hoped he would be good, he was fun to watch as a rookie, but now he sucks and is an egomaniac who is ruining a team.

He got injured yesterday fumbling a ball after not being hit, he fumbled the ball running LOL what an inept loser.

RGIII as a rookie threw 20 tds and 5 ints on a team that was probably worse than the Jaguars. Then got injured. Bortles/Carr are going to have mediocre numbers again this season because they play on bad teams. RGIII made the Redskins far better than they could have been and he still does. Your envy of him is very apparent. To not even mention the Redskins team as a whole and just blame everything on RG3 even though he's putting up much better numbers than QBs on other horrible teams is ridiculous. He played the entire 2013 season in a knee brace and couldn't run and he barely played much in 2014. You're just jealous. It's embarrassing.

[chitownbears22]

Yea man, he had a serious injury in a playoff game with a team that rarely makes the playoffs in a season he won the rookie of the year and was 3rd in QB passer rating. Not sure what that proves. You're coming off as kind of a weird person, especially trying to show his injury as if that makes him a bad qb. Kind of creepy.

How am I creepy? His injury does make him a bad QB. Because of the injury he has had to change his game to a more pocket focused player. If he stayed healthy, he could have been very good, but he didn't.

So you have to evaluate him as he is now. He fails to recognize pre-snap pressure, he has horrible timing with WR/TE, he holds the ball too long, when he does run he is timid, he misses wide open WRs, etc.

Those are facts. So instead of attacking me by calling me crazy and focusing on something that happened 3 years ago, why don't you address the present? Tell me why he is currently a good QB, tell me how he is going to improve the mechanics he has as a QB currently, and tell me how RGIII 2015 is anything like RGIII 2012.

[chitownbears22]

RGIII as a rookie threw 20 tds and 5 ints on a team that was probably worse than the Jaguars. Then got injured. Bortles/Carr are going to have mediocre numbers again this season because they play on bad teams. RGIII made the Redskins far better than they could have been and he still does. Your envy of him is very apparent. To not even mention the Redskins team as a whole and just blame everything on RG3 even though he's putting up much better numbers than QBs on other horrible teams is ridiculous. He played the entire 2013 season in a knee brace and couldn't run and he barely played much in 2014. You're just jealous. It's embarrassing.

In 8 games in 2013 Josh McCown has 1800 yards 13 TD 1 INT...do you think he is good too?

Let's live in the past! The only place where RGIII is relevant.

[pgisback]

How am I creepy? His injury does make him a bad QB. Because of the injury he has had to change his game to a more pocket focused player. If he stayed healthy, he could have been very good, but he didn't.

So you have to evaluate him as he is now. He fails to recognize pre-snap pressure, he has horrible timing with WR/TE, he holds the ball too long, when he does run he is timid, he misses wide open WRs, etc.

Those are facts. So instead of attacking me by calling me crazy and focusing on something that happened 3 years ago, why don't you address the present? Tell me why he is currently a good QB, tell me how he is going to improve the mechanics he has as a QB currently, and tell me how RGIII 2015 is anything like RGIII 2012.

Posting a picture of him damaging his knee to mock him is very creepy behavior and quite pathetic. RG3 has a new coaching staff that wants to run a different system than what made him successful as a RC. But after tearing up his knee, playing in brace that prevented him from using one of his biggest strengths, and then only playing in couple games last year after more injuries and still having a higher career QB rating than Luck and more tds than ints... that's impressive. Your jealousy is very apparent. The Redskins are far better off with RG3 under center than any other quarterback. Their defense has been garbage, their oline is terrible, their receivers drop passes, no qb would be successful with that team.

[chitownbears22]

Posting a picture of him damaging his knee to mock him is very creepy behavior and quite pathetic. RG3 has a new coaching staff that wants to run a different system than what made him successful as a RC. But after tearing up his knee, playing in brace that prevented him from using one of his biggest strengths, and then only playing in couple games last year after more injuries and still having a higher career QB rating than Luck and more tds than ints... that's impressive. Your jealousy is very apparent. The Redskins are far better off with RG3 under center than any other quarterback. Their defense has been garbage, their oline is terrible, their receivers drop passes, no qb would be successful with that team.

No QB could be successful, but they would be better than RGIII.

RGIII is going to be a great AFL QB in 3 years.

[pgisback]

In 8 games in 2013 Josh McCown has 1800 yards 13 TD 1 INT...do you think he is good too?

Let's live in the past! The only place where RGIII is relevant.

That's actually a great example. Yea, I think McCown is a good qb if he has a good team. The Bears with their weapons on offense made him good. Then he went to crap Tampa and looked horrible just like all qbs that play for Tampa. He couldn't turn a crap team in to a contender like RG3 can.

[pgisback]

No QB could be successful, but they would be better than RGIII.

RGIII is going to be a great AFL QB in 3 years.

RG3 is an elite qb. He'll be in the NFL for the next decade as long as his knees don't give out.

[chitownbears22]

That's actually a great example. Yea, I think McCown is a good qb if he has a good team. The Bears with their weapons on offense made him good. Then he went to crap Tampa and looked horrible just like all qbs that play for Tampa. It's a team game.

No it is a bad example. McCown didn't actually look that great outside of a stat sheet. He had about 10 passes that should have been intercepted, but that doesn't show up. He had one of the best offensive skill teams surrounding him, and a good OL.

He proves that garbage QBs can look good if others prop him up. RGIII will never be a reason a team wins, but he will often be a reason a team loses.

[pgisback]

No it is a bad example. McCown didn't actually look that great outside of a stat sheet. He had about 10 passes that should have been intercepted, but that doesn't show up. He had one of the best offensive skill teams surrounding him, and a good OL.

He proves that garbage QBs can look good if others prop him up. RGIII will never be a reason a team wins, but he will often be a reason a team loses.

RGIII has never been propped up in the NFL. You act like the Redskins are a good team, lol. He took a Tampa like team to the playoffs because he has tremendous skill. McCown couldn't do that. He needed the weapons. You are making my points for me. Thanks bud!

[chitownbears22]

RGIII has never been propped up in the NFL. You act like the Redskins are a good team, lol. He took a Tampa like team to the playoffs because he has tremendous skill. McCown couldn't do that. He needed the weapons. You are making my points for me. Thanks bud!

Skill he no longer has. He will never run for 800 yards or 7 TDs again. Those days are gone. Now he is a pocket QB who can't read a D. Sounds like a winning formula. Good thing it is a contract year, and next years QB draft class is super weak!!!

[jlzinck]

RG3 is an elite qb. He'll be in the NFL for the next decade as long as his knees don't give out.

Wait, what?

[pgisback]

Skill he no longer has. He will never run for 800 yards or 7 TDs again. Those days are gone. Now he is a pocket QB who can't read a D. Sounds like a winning formula. Good thing it is a contract year, and next years QB draft class is super weak!!!

They already picked up his extension for 2016.

Has a higher career qb rating than Andrew Luck and provides the Redskins their best opportunity to win.

[pgisback]

Wait, what?

Considering the team he plays for, when he's healthy he's an elite qb. No doubt about that.

[chitownbears22]

Wait, what?

He is elite. I mean everyone ranks the QBs:

RGIII
Rodgers
Brady
Curtis Painter

[fullmetal]

The gal needs a career change. Maybe knitting

[bojesphob]

I don't buy the "his o-line is crap" theory. Aaron Rodgers' first 3 years starting he was sacked 115 times, and RGIII has only been sacked 101 times in his first 3 years. Rodgers then won the Super Bowl in his third year starting. The really good QBs (not even the "great", just the "really good") elevate the play of those around them. RGIII did that his first year, sure, but we really haven't see it since. If he doesn't light it up this year, he's going to be considered a bust.

[chitownbears22]

I don't buy the "his o-line is crap" theory. Aaron Rodgers' first 3 years starting he was sacked 115 times, and RGIII has only been sacked 101 times in his first 3 years. Rodgers then won the Super Bowl in his third year starting. The really good QBs (not even the "great", just the "really good") elevate the play of those around them. RGIII did that his first year, sure, but we really haven't see it since. If he doesn't light it up this year, he's going to be considered a bust.

Much like Rodgers, RGIII is elite. So it is pretty much a given that the Redskins are destined to win the SB this year.

[fulltritty]

I love how the Redskins homers come out every pre-season and defend RGIII and relive the glory of his rookie year and think he will ever achieve that again. :rolleyes:

Fact is that the Redskins went to the playoffs that year because of the combination of RGIII and Alfred Morris. The fact that Morris was running over defenses and RGIII could run, made defenses play the run and allowed receivers to get open behind the defense where RGIII could hit them for great passes. Now, RGIII can't run because of the injuries, so he is no longer a threat the defense needs to worry about.

I too am sick of the O-line crap as the stats and watching the game with my own eyes clearly showed other QBs not getting sacked as much as RGIII. If RGIII can't realize that he is no longer the great college/rookie running QB anymore because of his injuries and learn how to be a real pocket QB, he will continue to be a non-winning QB and probably get a lot more injuries from sacks this year.

[bwallstreet]

This may be the funniest thread I've ever read in my life.

RG3 is one of the worst 2-3 starting QBs in the NFL today.

[mickdapug]

in my opinion all the injuries devestated whatever upside Griffen had....He is done....

[xbignick]

This clip had me laughing. Seriously boys vs. men:
http://streamable.com/2s3m

if all 5 of the redskins lineman laid on top of me at the beach and covered every single part of my body I would still get sunburnt cause they can't block #@#@#@#@

[lambeauleap87]

RG3 is an elite qb.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/06/fa/63/06fa638adb5542d13258ab3c20fb3ed2.gif

[88horsepower]

He is elite. I mean everyone ranks the QBs:

RGIII
Rodgers
Brady
Curtis Painter

Heh, and I'm still collecting rare Curtis Painter rookie autos. Hey, at least they're cheap! You think Curtis Painter's mother collects his stuff? She's sitting on a gold mine.

[xtremecardage13]

I love how the Redskins homers come out every pre-season and defend RGIII and relive the glory of his rookie year and think he will ever achieve that again. :rolleyes:

Fact is that the Redskins went to the playoffs that year because of the combination of RGIII and Alfred Morris. The fact that Morris was running over defenses and RGIII could run, made defenses play the run and allowed receivers to get open behind the defense where RGIII could hit them for great passes. Now, RGIII can't run because of the injuries, so he is no longer a threat the defense needs to worry about.

I too am sick of the O-line crap as the stats and watching the game with my own eyes clearly showed other QBs not getting sacked as much as RGIII. If RGIII can't realize that he is no longer the great college/rookie running QB anymore because of his injuries and learn how to be a real pocket QB, he will continue to be a non-winning QB and probably get a lot more injuries from sacks this year.

Trust me, not every Redskins fan is as stupid as this other guy. I'd much rather have McCoy starting for us than RGIII (Cousins seems to flop in the moments where we need him most). As you pointed out the Redskins have a really solid and undervalued RB in Morris (1,000+ YDs every season with no OL or QB). They also have 2 pretty good WRs (Jackson and Garcon). RGIII has no excuse not to be playing at least decently.

[Scottish Punk]

I think RG3 falls into that category of running QBs that will never transition to the pocket. All his life, he was the most athletic guy on the field. If his first read wasn't there, he knew he could tuck and run and make plays. Sometimes those players never develop reading defenses, since they could jump to the safe "out" of running at anytime. He will never be the dynamic running threat anymore. I see him playing a 4-5 games this year and get benched via injury or bad play. The Skins will try to showcase Cousins/McCoy to see if they an get some trade bytes. They will then draft another QB in 2016. RG3 has 5 games this season to prove he can win and stay healthy.

[Bostonsports1]

This clip had me laughing. Seriously boys vs. men:
Streamable - simple video sharing (http://streamable.com/2s3m)

if all 5 of the redskins lineman laid on top of me at the beach and covered every single part of my body I would still get sunburnt cause they can't block #@#@#@#@

He had a man open he could have thrown to. Yes he had little time but he needs to get rid of the ball, at least on the clip. Look at the receiver bottom right of the screen.

[bedler]

Considering the team he plays for, when he's healthy he's an elite qb. No doubt about that.



Funniest thing ive seen all day....LOL

Elite...please

He's in the same category as Geno & EJ..... WinstonG3 is also the same QB

All will fail as starters in the NFL

[shrevecity]

RGIII is elite? Man pass that s**t you are smoking..

[jlzinck]

Considering the team he plays for, when he's healthy he's an elite qb. No doubt about that.

Except to the people who actually know the definition of "elite"

[asujbl]

When Greg Oden is healthy he's an elite Center

I like this game.

[Grid]

Since the homers keep touting RGIII's QB rating > Andrew Luck does that mean they wouldn't trade QB's with the Colts?

[blevins26]

This may be the funniest thread I've ever read in my life.

RG3 is one of the worst 2-3 starting QBs in the NFL today.


Spot on.

Can't wait for 30 for 30 to do "The Rise & Fall of RG3"

[duwal]

I don't buy the "his o-line is crap" theory. Aaron Rodgers' first 3 years starting he was sacked 115 times, and RGIII has only been sacked 101 times in his first 3 years. Rodgers then won the Super Bowl in his third year starting. The really good QBs (not even the "great", just the "really good") elevate the play of those around them. RGIII did that his first year, sure, but we really haven't see it since. If he doesn't light it up this year, he's going to be considered a bust.


Exactly, they do not have a crappy o-line. This past game RGIII was mobbed and crushed and hurt by the defense....Colt McCoy and Kurt Cousins come in and neither of them get sacked once. Same happened for them last year, Griffin just holds on to the ball too long, gets confused when making decisions and figuring out the defenses and unlike his rookie year he now does not have the mobility to move away from the pursuit and make a play.

[duwal]

Considering the team he plays for, when he's healthy he's an elite qb. No doubt about that.


Yeah well problem is with his tiny frame Griffin will NEVER truly be fully healthy, he's one of the more injury prone players in the NFL now without his speed to elude tacklers

[shrevecity]

Exactly, they do not have a crappy o-line. This past game RGIII was mobbed and crushed and hurt by the defense....Colt McCoy and Kurt Cousins come in and neither of them get sacked once. Same happened for them last year, Griffin just holds on to the ball too long, gets confused when making decisions and figuring out the defenses and unlike his rookie year he now does not have the mobility to move away from the pursuit and make a play.

Not only this, but during his rookie year he had not been seen by most NFL defensive players. So his speed was an advantage, now they have learned his habits and have learned angles that off set any speed advantage he has left. If he does not learn to be a pocket passer very soon he is not going to be around more than a year or 2.

[thenextlevel]

lol Yahoo got jokes. last line of the app update.

http://i.imgur.com/xYvCL2cl.jpg

[bwallstreet]

Funniest thing ive seen all day....LOL

Elite...please

He's in the same category as Geno & EJ..... WinstonG3 is also the same QB

All will fail as starters in the NFL

Am I the only one who sees this as racially suspicious? Jameis Winston is nothing like RG3 and yet this guy is saying he's the same QB while simultaneously attacking 4 black QBs.

It is not 1950 anymore.

[shrevecity]

Am I the only one who sees this as racially suspicious? Jameis Winston is nothing like RG3 and yet this guy is saying he's the same QB while simultaneously attacking 4 black QBs.

It is not 1950 anymore.

Throw Manziel into that mix.

[Athey49]

When Greg Oden is healthy he's an elite Center

I like this game.

Al Bundy once scored 4 touchdowns in one game, he's forever elite in my book

[ninjacookies]

RG3 is nothing without his mobility. Unfortunately, that's the cold hard truth. Much like the other slender, athletic qb's like Vick, Cunningham, etc. Ever since he suffered that injury against my beloved Hawks, he has been a complete shadow of himself. Defenses can zone in on him, and his presence in the pocket plummets with the first sign of pressure. He also gets ZERO lift on his ball now, which accounts for the fact he can't hit Desean on a deep route if his life depended on it. Desean's stats went through the ceiling as soon as Cousins came in.

It's unfortunate, because RG3 had a lot of promise, but that's the double edged sword with these slim, fragile running qb's...once that's taken away, their entire game is rendered virtually useless. Have a hard time ever seeing him bounce back.

[duwal]

Am I the only one who sees this as racially suspicious? Jameis Winston is nothing like RG3 and yet this guy is saying he's the same QB while simultaneously attacking 4 black QBs.

It is not 1950 anymore.


Yes you are the only one

[wickedliquids]

Al Bundy once scored 4 touchdowns in one game, he's forever elite in my book

lol THIS!!!!

Seriously though, without a front line to protect him, I feel RG3's career is going to end sooner than later.

I absolutely see him relegated to 2nd or 3rd string in less than 3 years. He's getting beaten AND he's not as sharp as everyone had hoped him to be - in other words, the way he plays the game has changed and it's not been beneficial.

Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for him....but I can also see the line drawn in the dirt and he's awful close to toeing right over it.

[cking]

but he said hes the best qb in the nfl

He would not even be the best QB in the CFL

[oldgoldy97]

I thought the nut Skins fan was gone?

[HBMC]

Lmao, 20 tds and 18 ints for a qb with no offensive line. Plus the NFL didn't figure him out. He had a knee brace on and couldn't even run. You must not watch much football.

No Offensive line would have produced a nearly 1,700 rusher. RGIII is horrible at reading defenses and has precious little pocket presence. His athleticism bough him all kinds of time and ability in college, it made him somewhat unpredictable in the NFL and now he's a bum who cannot learn quick enough to change his game (or is possibly too damn stubborn to adapt, which is worse).

He has a higher career QB rating than Andrew Luck. 90.6 qb rating, 40 tds, 23 ints. Yea, he's not capable of playing in the NFL. Lmao. Some peoples kids.

Who cares about rating? RGIII's got 1,063 attempts, Andrew Luck has 1,812. Luck has been 11-5 every year as a player and missed zero games, RGIII has been a shell of himself and falling backwards ever since he messed up his knee. Luck has been to an AFC Title Game and been in the playoffs every year with a horrible Colts roster outside of a couple of okay WR's (TY Hilton would be a decoy on most teams and the combo of Dwayne Allen + Coby Fleener are about as underwhelming for their draft positions as they come). RGIII has two legitimate Stud WR's in Garçon and Jackson and he sucks at getting the ball to both of them beyond 15 yards.

Washington last year:

McCoy/Cousins: 2.7 sacks per game
RGIII: 4.7 sacks per game

Robert Griffin is trash, and that is because of him, not the people around him. You sound like his dad/handler.

His lack of speed in decision making is apparent and actually a joke relative to most of the QB's in the NFL.

Considering the team he plays for, when he's healthy he's an elite qb. No doubt about that.

There's plenty of doubt, and he's not going to be healthy as an NFL QB because he is so thinly built. He get's sacked once and it will be a lot more painful for him as compared to some of the other bulkier QB's in the league. That's why he is slow to get up from gut shots, he's getting is damn guts caved in because he's too small.

[pgisback]

No Offensive line would have produced a nearly 1,700 rusher. RGIII is horrible at reading defenses and has precious little pocket presence. His athleticism bough him all kinds of time and ability in college, it made him somewhat unpredictable in the NFL and now he's a bum who cannot learn quick enough to change his game (or is possibly too damn stubborn to adapt, which is worse).

Anyone who watches football saw how bad the Washington Redskins offensive line was at protecting the qb. One of the reasons they drafted two offensive linemen in the first two rounds including a controversial top 6 pick. That should tell you enough about how much they thought of their oline last year. If you don't watch the games, you shouldn't comment. I watched every Redskins game last year and RG3 was not the problem. He does try to run more than Cousins which is why he has more sacks, but Cousins also just throws the ball away or to the other team which explains his poor completion %.


Who cares about rating? RGIII's got 1,063 attempts, Andrew Luck has 1,812. Luck has been 11-5 every year as a player and missed zero games, RGIII has been a shell of himself and falling backwards ever since he messed up his knee. Luck has been to an AFC Title Game and been in the playoffs every year with a horrible Colts roster outside of a couple of okay WR's (TY Hilton would be a decoy on most teams and the combo of Dwayne Allen + Coby Fleener are about as underwhelming for their draft positions as they come). RGIII has two legitimate Stud WR's in Garçon and Jackson and he sucks at getting the ball to both of them beyond 15 yards.

I'm just saying as a qb, he obviously can play the position. Luck is a tremendous qb on a good team. RGIII does not throw very many interceptions. He's not that bad of a quarterback. I'm not saying he's better than Luck, just saying he has a better career qb rating than him.


There's plenty of doubt, and he's not going to be healthy as an NFL QB because he is so thinly built. He get's sacked once and it will be a lot more painful for him as compared to some of the other bulkier QB's in the league. That's why he is slow to get up from gut shots, he's getting is damn guts caved in because he's too small.
His health is the only legit concern about him. Otherwise, he's a legit NFL qb that can play in the league for a long time. You guys are acting like the skins are a good team and RGIII is making them bad, lol. I much rather have RGIII back there than Cousins or McCoy or most of the qbs in the NFL. If he remains healthy this season, he'll put up big boy numbers and make the Redskins competitive.

[pgisback]

Am I the only one who sees this as racially suspicious? Jameis Winston is nothing like RG3 and yet this guy is saying he's the same QB while simultaneously attacking 4 black QBs.

It is not 1950 anymore.

Pure racism. There is no reason to compare him to Winston at all. Winston is slow and a pocket passer. Lot of this hatred for RG3 comes from racism. No doubt about it.

[Ray27Ray52]

Pure racism. There is no reason to compare him to Winston at all. Winston is slow and a pocket passer. Lot of this hatred for RG3 comes from racism. No doubt about it.

I had no idea Al Sharpton was a forum member.

[pgisback]

I had no idea Al Sharpton was a forum member.

Do you have another reason why someone would compare Jameis Winston to RG3? They have no similarities other than one thing.

[chitownbears22]

Do you have another reason why someone would compare Jameis Winston to RG3? They have no similarities other than one thing.

Both are QBs, both had prominent college careers, both had large hype coming into the league, both play in the NFL, both play in the NFC, etc.

A lot of similarities. And on top of it I guess you could throw in that they are both black. And if you look historically in the NFL, African-American QBs in the league have struggled for the most part, especially in recent years.

Kordell Stewart had a short career that was relevant.

Akili Smith was an embarrassment to the QB position

Aaron Brooks short career.

Culpepper had 5 seasons of solid productivity

McNabb probably had the longest amount of success at the pro level.

Russell (see Akili Smith)

Jason Campbell LOL

Russell Wilson has had early success in his career, and looks to be, at the very least, a solid game manager for years to come.

Vick may be the most overrated QB of all time. He never led Atlanta to anything in his career, and he almost ruined the career of Roddy White.

While there is some success sprinkled in there for African American QBs, there are a lot more problems. The biggest would be duration of success. They QBs mentioned are all black, that is correct, I am glad you can see a pattern. But not all patterns of race are indicative of racism. The pattern could just as easily be explained by the fact that most black QBs have not shown long-term success in the NFL consistently. You could talk about the fact that most black players are not targeted to be QB, and there is a lack of data, which is true, but there are data points.

-------

Based on your responses in here, the fact that you fail to bring and objectivity to your posts, the fact that you want to derail threads based on what you presume is "racism", and the fact that you have a short fuse. I have to assume you are a tiny person, you think you are smarter than you are, and you are most likely a terrible person to exist around. Please go troll somewhere else, you are not even good at it. The good trolls at least bring some semblance of an argument to a post.

Good day.

[pgisback]

Both are QBs, both had prominent college careers, both had large hype coming into the league, both play in the NFL, both play in the NFC, etc.

Many quarterbacks fit that criteria, white or black.


A lot of similarities. And on top of it I guess you could throw in that they are both black. And if you look historically in the NFL, African-American QBs in the league have struggled for the most part, especially in recent years.

Case in point


Kordell Stewart had a short career that was relevant.

Akili Smith was an embarrassment to the QB position

Aaron Brooks short career.

Culpepper had 5 seasons of solid productivity

McNabb probably had the longest amount of success at the pro level.

Russell (see Akili Smith)

Jason Campbell LOL

Russell Wilson has had early success in his career, and looks to be, at the very least, a solid game manager for years to come.

Vick may be the most overrated QB of all time. He never led Atlanta to anything in his career, and he almost ruined the career of Roddy White.

Lmao. You just exposed yourself as a very horrible human being. I expected it, but didn't want to say it. You did the work for me.


While there is some success sprinkled in there for African American QBs, there are a lot more problems. The biggest would be duration of success. They QBs mentioned are all black, that is correct, I am glad you can see a pattern. But not all patterns of race are indicative of racism. The pattern could just as easily be explained by the fact that most black QBs have not shown long-term success in the NFL consistently. You could talk about the fact that most black players are not targeted to be QB, and there is a lack of data, which is true, but there are data points.

There was never a time where I considered RG3 being black in terms of his success in the NFL. I can see where you are coming from now. Wow!!!


Based on your responses in here, the fact that you fail to bring and objectivity to your posts, the fact that you want to derail threads based on what you presume is "racism", and the fact that you have a short fuse. I have to assume you are a tiny person, you think you are smarter than you are, and you are most likely a terrible person to exist around. Please go troll somewhere else, you are not even good at it. The good trolls at least bring some semblance of an argument to a post.

Good day.
All I do is bring objective reasoning in. Which is why I do not care about skin color. You brought Jason Campbell and Akili Smith in a conversation about RG3. That exposed you for what you really are. A racist. Not going to lie.

[chitownbears22]

Many quarterbacks fit that criteria, white or black.


Case in point


Lmao. You just exposed yourself as a very horrible human being. I expected it, but didn't want to say it. You did the work for me.


There was never a time where I considered RG3 being black in terms of his success in the NFL. I can see where you are coming from now. Wow!!!


All I do is bring objective reasoning in. Which is why I do not care about skin color. You brought Jason Campbell and Akili Smith in a conversation about RG3. That exposed you for what you really are. A racist. Not going to lie.


There was nothing racist about my post. I was talking about the historical successes of black QBs in the NFL. Leaving out Campbell and Smith would mean that I missed data.

A QB is not successful based on their skin color, when you discuss the concept in a vacuum. If every QB was given the same circumstances when playing, Black/White doesn't matter. But when you bring the question to the current world, and reality, black/white does matter when it comes to QBs. The reasoning has nothing to do with racism though. It has to do with the development of football players. When I coached pop-warner, I had a mixture of black players and white players on my team. Guess which position the black players wanted to play? WR, RB, and CB for the most part. The white players wanted to play QB, RB, LB for the most part. The same thing happened in middle school when I played, and high school.

There are very few "bred" black QBs. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Dan Marino, John Elway, Andy Dalton, Jay Cutler, Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, David Carr, Matt Leinart, Matt Barkley, Nick Foles, Dan Orvlosky, Matt Stafford etc. were all QBs from a very young age, and some developed into good QBs in the NFL , and some weren't.

The point I am trying to make is:

A. Black QBs tend to start playing QB later in their time playing football (generally HS and some transition to QB in college)
B. Due to this late start, they are not as polished as "bred" white QBs.
C. Being black =/= you will be bad.
D. Because of historical data, and the environment of how players develop into their position, the color of someone's skin can matter in evaluation. (not because they are worse, but they may have less experience, meaning there is usually a higher learning curve.
E. Not brought up, but most black QBs in HS/College play that position because they are a dual threat (running/throwing). But coaches in HS/College will overlook sub-par throwing in cases of extreme athleticism (Vick, RGIII, RW in college). That means that their arms may not have the talent, but they create problems for a defense.

RGIII does not have great arm talent, or mental talent. He HAD great athleticism, which no longer exists. He is timid.

If you find this post to be racist, I feel sorry for you because that is not the intent. Racism generally means there is a connotation of hate. I don't hate black QBs, I dislike QBs that don't have talent. This thread is about RGIII, who I find to have little talent at this stage of his career. You have decided that since he is black, and I dislike him, that I am racist.

I am sorry you live in such a world of delusion that you need to find racism in everything. One day you will wake up an old and bitter man, and realize you are wrong for calling people racists because they do not agree with you. It is LOW and shows a LACK OF CHARACTER.

I hope you are banned soon, because you level of discussion is not positive or beneficial to a group. I tolerate people who are SLOW, and who like to troll. I have even partaken in the latter myself on occasions, but it is generally in jest and to start a contrarian conversation. You do it out of HATE. You are the reason that people should be held accountable for what they say on the internet. You actual name should be attached to your profile, because I bet mommy and society would not condone the way you talk to people.

[pgisback]

There was nothing racist about my post. I was talking about the historical successes of black QBs in the NFL. Leaving out Campbell and Smith would mean that I missed data.

A QB is not successful based on their skin color, when you discuss the concept in a vacuum. If every QB was given the same circumstances when playing, Black/White doesn't matter. But when you bring the question to the current world, and reality, black/white does matter when it comes to QBs. The reasoning has nothing to do with racism though. It has to do with the development of football players. When I coached pop-warner, I had a mixture of black players and white players on my team. Guess which position the black players wanted to play? WR, RB, and CB for the most part. The white players wanted to play QB, RB, LB for the most part. The same thing happened in middle school when I played, and high school.

There are very few "bred" black QBs. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Dan Marino, John Elway, Andy Dalton, Jay Cutler, Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, David Carr, Matt Leinart, Matt Barkley, Nick Foles, Dan Orvlosky, Matt Stafford etc. were all QBs from a very young age, and some developed into good QBs in the NFL , and some weren't.

The point I am trying to make is:

A. Black QBs tend to start playing QB later in their time playing football (generally HS and some transition to QB in college)
B. Due to this late start, they are not as polished as "bred" white QBs.
C. Being black =/= you will be bad.
D. Because of historical data, and the environment of how players develop into their position, the color of someone's skin can matter in evaluation. (not because they are worse, but they may have less experience, meaning there is usually a higher learning curve.
E. Not brought up, but most black QBs in HS/College play that position because they are a dual threat (running/throwing). But coaches in HS/College will overlook sub-par throwing in cases of extreme athleticism (Vick, RGIII, RW in college). That means that their arms may not have the talent, but they create problems for a defense.

RGIII does not have great arm talent, or mental talent. He HAD great athleticism, which no longer exists. He is timid.

If you find this post to be racist, I feel sorry for you because that is not the intent. Racism generally means there is a connotation of hate. I don't hate black QBs, I dislike QBs that don't have talent. This thread is about RGIII, who I find to have little talent at this stage of his career. You have decided that since he is black, and I dislike him, that I am racist.

I am sorry you live in such a world of delusion that you need to find racism in everything. One day you will wake up an old and bitter man, and realize you are wrong for calling people racists because they do not agree with you. It is LOW and shows a LACK OF CHARACTER.

I hope you are banned soon, because you level of discussion is not positive or beneficial to a group. I tolerate people who are SLOW, and who like to troll. I have even partaken in the latter myself on occasions, but it is generally in jest and to start a contrarian conversation. You do it out of HATE. You are the reason that people should be held accountable for what they say on the internet. You actual name should be attached to your profile, because I bet mommy and society would not condone the way you talk to people.

If I get banned for calling you a racist, I will accept it. There is absolutely no reason to talk about race when it comes to playing quarterback. I just care about their actual performance on the field. You are clearly a racist, not going to lie.

[chitownbears22]

RGIII injured himself due to an unforced turnover, running from a pocket that was not collapsing, while having an open WR down the field. I just watched the 22-cam of the play.

It was so bad that he faked an injury so it wouldn't become buttfumble2.0. He knew that an injury would make people forget about the ineptitude that led to the "injury".

[chitownbears22]

Faked a Concussion (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/21/was-griffins-concussion-diagnosis-a-convenient-way-to-dodge-the-media/)

Outplayed by Back-ups (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/21/mccoy-cousins-continue-to-out-play-rg3/)

[pgisback]

RGIII injured himself due to an unforced turnover, running from a pocket that was not collapsing, while having an open WR down the field. I just watched the 22-cam of the play.

It was so bad that he faked an injury so it wouldn't become buttfumble2.0. He knew that an injury would make people forget about the ineptitude that led to the "injury".

Ahhhh... is a Bears fan really supposed to be talking about "fake" injuries. At least RG3's was in the preseason.

[Ray27Ray52]

Pg, are you being deliberately obtuse for the sake of argument or is it just a character trait?

[pgisback]

Pg, are you being deliberately obtuse for the sake of argument or is it just a character trait?

You would have to actually provide an argument for me to answer that.

[chitownbears22]

Ahhhh... is a Bears fan really supposed to be talking about "fake" injuries. At least RG3's was in the preseason.

I am assuming you are talking about Cutler in the NFCCG.

The game where he had a MCL Grade 2 Sprain (medically known as a TEAR).

The game where he tore his MCL in the 1st half, then played the first series of the 2nd half, and was pulled my Lovie and the medical staff.

The game where Olin Kreutz saw his knee buckling in the 2nd half series he played.


Most players can get an injection to numb the area for an MCL sprain, and play on it and not feel the pain. Cutler could not because he has diabetes and the medications cannot mix.

Here let me help you:

Report of Grade 2 Tear (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/24/final-cutler-injury-update-grade-ii-mcl-tear/)

So yes, Cutler is a pansy for attempting to play on a grade 2 tear, without medication, because he has diabetes.

Keep on coming.

[chitownbears22]

Pg, are you being deliberately obtuse for the sake of argument or is it just a character trait?

He is the Lenny of blowout...

Hope he doesn't pet the rabbits.

[Ray27Ray52]

You would have to actually provide an argument for me to answer that.

I am just watching your back and forth with another member. He has shown clear and concise evidence with statistical backing while you just continue to ignore and call him a racist. It is sad to watch your apparent lack of awareness as to how bad you are making yourself look.

[pgisback]

Faked a Concussion (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/21/was-griffins-concussion-diagnosis-a-convenient-way-to-dodge-the-media/)

Outplayed by Back-ups (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/21/mccoy-cousins-continue-to-out-play-rg3/)

2011 NFC Championship (Jay Cutler Was Not Hurt) All In Game Developing Reports & Media Reaction (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWhPQvkIBWs)

[chitownbears22]

I am just watching your back and forth with another member. He has shown clear and concise evidence with statistical backing while you just continue to ignore and call him a racist. It is sad to watch your apparent lack of awareness as to how bad you are making yourself look.

Hey now, by supporting a known racist, you yourself must be a racist!!!!

That argument is coming in 3...2...1....

[pgisback]

I am just watching your back and forth with another member. He has shown clear and concise evidence with statistical backing while you just continue to ignore and call him a racist. It is sad to watch your apparent lack of awareness as to how bad you are making yourself look.

Explain the statistical backing you are talking about.

Edit:: and by the way I called him a racist in 1 post out of our entire back and forth. So your "continue" comment is a little far fetched. Maybe you should work on your "statistical backing".

[chitownbears22]

2011 NFC Championship (Jay Cutler Was Not Hurt) All In Game Developing Reports & Media Reaction (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWhPQvkIBWs)

I guess you ignored the link saying that is was a grade 2 tear....

[chitownbears22]

BTW, I am not a Cutler fan. But I am also not stupid enough to call him soft. Any person who has diabetes and plays in the NFL is most likely a tough SOB. That disease is horrible to normal people, can't imagine what it is like having it and playing a demanding sport like football.

[chitownbears22]

Explain the statistical backing you are talking about.

Edit:: and by the way I called him a racist in 1 post out of our entire back and forth. So your "continue" comment is a little far fetched. Maybe you should work on your "statistical backing".

Actually it was 3 posts. So that means you are both illiterate and have the memory of a goldfish, congrats.

[pgisback]

I guess you ignored the link saying that is was a grade 2 tear....

Just saying. You posted a pic of RG3 actually damaging his knee to insult him having an injury. Lot of questions surrounding Cutler and whether he was actually injured. I don't think anyone would question whether RG3w as injured. Dude was a trooper. He had to have his knee completely give out before he stopped playing.

[pgisback]

Actually it was 3 posts. So that means you are both illiterate and have the memory of a goldfish, congrats.

Quote the 3 posts where I called you a racist. Otherwise apologize! Thanks.

[chitownbears22]

Just saying. You posted a pic of RG3 actually damaging his knee to insult him having an injury. Lot of questions surrounding Cutler and whether he was actually injured. I don't think anyone would question whether RG3w as injured. Dude was a trooper. He had to have his knee completely give out before he stopped playing.

Initially there were, and then the medical reports and facts came out.

[pgisback]

Initially there were, and then the medical reports and facts came out.

Cutler could walk, RG3 couldn't.

[chitownbears22]

Quote the 3 posts where I called you a racist. Otherwise apologize! Thanks.

1:

Many quarterbacks fit that criteria, white or black.


Case in point


Lmao. You just exposed yourself as a very horrible human being. I expected it, but didn't want to say it. You did the work for me.


There was never a time where I considered RG3 being black in terms of his success in the NFL. I can see where you are coming from now. Wow!!!


All I do is bring objective reasoning in. Which is why I do not care about skin color. You brought Jason Campbell and Akili Smith in a conversation about RG3. That exposed you for what you really are. A racist. Not going to lie.



2:

If I get banned for calling you a racist, I will accept it. There is absolutely no reason to talk about race when it comes to playing quarterback. I just care about their actual performance on the field. You are clearly a racist, not going to lie.

3:

Explain the statistical backing you are talking about.

Edit:: and by the way I called him a racist in 1 post out of our entire back and forth. So your "continue" comment is a little far fetched. Maybe you should work on your "statistical backing".

Want to keep playing Mr. Goldfish?

[pgisback]

1:

Want to keep playing Mr. Goldfish?

#3 I didn't call you a racist. I referenced another post. So you have 2. But I will give you 3 here. You are a racist. Based on your posts.

[chitownbears22]

Cutler could walk, RG3 couldn't.

Yes you can walk on an MCL tear. You however loose stability and the ability to plant (pain). You can get around the planting issue by numbing the knee with an injection. However, that treatment couldn't be given due to his other medical issue (diabetes).

Both and MCL and ACL you can walk on after tears. You will feel a "twinge" type of pain. I cannot speak to PCL or LCL because I have never had that injury. Griffin injured his ACL and LCL, and they were grade 3.

Derrick Rose tore his ACL and walked off the court. After that he didn't play for a year.

[pgisback]

Yes you can walk on an MCL tear. You however loose stability and the ability to plant (pain). You can get around the planting issue by numbing the knee with an injection. However, that treatment couldn't be given due to his other medical issue (diabetes).

Both and MCL and ACL you can walk on after tears. You will feel a "twinge" type of pain. I cannot speak to PCL or LCL because I have never had that injury. Griffin injured his ACL and LCL, and they were grade 3.

Derrick Rose tore his ACL and walked off the court. After that he didn't play for a year.

"CHICAGO -- Jay Cutler does indeed have a knee injury -- a sprained medial collateral ligament, the team announced on Monday -- providing at least some explanation for why the Bears quarterback played only one series in the second half of Sunday's NFC title game, prompting critics to question Cutler's toughness.

"MCL sprain. That's what the injury was," Bears coach Lovie Smith said. "We knew that. We had an idea at the time that that's what it was, and that's what we're saying now."

The Bears didn't disclose the severity of Cutler's sprain, but the Chicago Sun-Times reported it is a Grade II tear. According to ESPN.com injury analyst Stephania Bell, who has not examined Cutler, all sprains could be tears since there is some form of tissue damage.

How badly Cutler was really hurt and whether he should have played anyway was hotly debated after the Bears quarterback left in the third quarter of a 21-14 loss to the Green Bay Packers.

"If things had gone our way and we had made it to the Super Bowl, it would have been questionable if he could have gone in," Smith said."

[chitownbears22]

#3 I didn't call you a racist. I referenced another post. So you have 2. But I will give you 3 here. You are a racist. Based on your posts.

Reflexive property says you called me a racist in #3.

[chitownbears22]

"CHICAGO -- Jay Cutler does indeed have a knee injury -- a sprained medial collateral ligament, the team announced on Monday -- providing at least some explanation for why the Bears quarterback played only one series in the second half of Sunday's NFC title game, prompting critics to question Cutler's toughness.

"MCL sprain. That's what the injury was," Bears coach Lovie Smith said. "We knew that. We had an idea at the time that that's what it was, and that's what we're saying now."

The Bears didn't disclose the severity of Cutler's sprain, but the Chicago Sun-Times reported it is a Grade II tear. According to ESPN.com injury analyst Stephania Bell, who has not examined Cutler, all sprains could be tears since there is some form of tissue damage.

How badly Cutler was really hurt and whether he should have played anyway was hotly debated after the Bears quarterback left in the third quarter of a 21-14 loss to the Green Bay Packers.

"If things had gone our way and we had made it to the Super Bowl, it would have been questionable if he could have gone in," Smith said."

So you agree. He was injured with a grade 2 tear, like I said. And if you look a little further, you will see that it took 4 weeks to recover...

[pgisback]

RG3:

"Tore the ACL in his right leg which required surgery to repair"

[pgisback]

So you agree. He was injured with a grade 2 tear, like I said. And if you look a little further, you will see that it took 4 weeks to recover...

No, I don't doubt he was hurt, but RG3 played with more damage to his knee than Cutler did. Cutler quit. Like a good Bear!

[chitownbears22]

RG3:

"Tore the ACL in his right leg which required surgery to repair"

Yes, and that brings us right back to the point of our debate. This was his 2nd torn ACL, first torn LCL. Since that occurred, he has not been good, he has been below average. In that time he has shown that he does not have the quick mind to diagnose plays while in his drop back. He has shown that he struggles getting the ball out of his hand in a timely manner. He has shown us that he is garbage.

Thanks for agreeing with me. I knew we could have a breakthrough.

[chitownbears22]

It is like talking to a parrot with an extra chromosome.

[pgisback]

Reflexive property says you called me a racist in #3.

Nope, references do not count to the result. That's voodoo math. That's like saying a team scored 7 points. And you claiming they scored 14 because your "reflexive properties".

[pgisback]

Yes, and that brings us right back to the point of our debate. This was his 2nd torn ACL, first torn LCL. Since that occurred, he has not been good, he has been below average. In that time he has shown that he does not have the quick mind to diagnose plays while in his drop back. He has shown that he struggles getting the ball out of his hand in a timely manner. He has shown us that he is garbage.

Thanks for agreeing with me. I knew we could have a breakthrough.

I have said from the beginning that his injuries are the only reason to believe he can't be an NFL quarterback. When he's healthy, he is a great NFL quarterback. Your reading comprehension is your problem.

[chitownbears22]

I have said from the beginning that his injuries are the only reason to believe he can't be an NFL quarterback. When he's healthy, he is a great NFL quarterback. Your reading comprehension is your problem.

But he is injured. So therefore, he will continue to suck.

We can't recreate 2012 RGIII.

[chitownbears22]

Nope, references do not count to the result. That's voodoo math. That's like saying a team scored 7 points. And you claiming they scored 14 because your "reflexive properties".

That is not reflexive property...

x = x

7 =/= 14

ahhhhhhhhhhh

[pgisback]

That is not reflexive property...

x = x

7 =/= 14

ahhhhhhhhhhh

That was my point.

ahhhhhhhhhhhh

[pgisback]

But he is injured. So therefore, he will continue to suck.

We can't recreate 2012 RGIII.

Knowing you're a racist. I will accept your opinion but disagree with it.

[shrevecity]

Knowing you're a racist. I will accept your opinion but disagree with it.

Addicted is that you? So anyone who thinks RGIII is washed up is racist? Anyone who looks at the fact that historically in the NFL black QBs have not fared well is a racist? Sorry facts are facts, historically outside of about 3 or 4 its hard to find a black QB who had any real success in the NFL. I guess that makes me a racist as well.. You lost all credibility when you played the race card.

[Athey49]

Addicted is that you? So anyone who thinks RGIII is washed up is racist? Anyone who looks at the fact that historically in the NFL black QBs have not fared well is a racist? Sorry facts are facts, historically outside of about 3 or 4 its hard to find a black QB who had any real success in the NFL. I guess that makes me a racist as well.. You lost all credibility when you played the race card.

You're telling me he had credibility before he made the comments??

[shrevecity]

You're telling me he had credibility before he made the comments??

Well I know that was a stretch, but any of it he may have had is long gone.

[NoleinJax]

No one predicted that. His rookie season proved he is a legit NFL quarterback. He was injured towards the end and has had injury problems since. Any Redskins fan knows there are far more problems with the skins than RG3. Their O'line, their defense, dropping passing, injuries, etc, etc. RG3 has good enough stats to be a starter in the NFL. He does not commit very many turnovers, he has great arm strength, great speed if he's not injured. He's a great qb, the Redskins as a team just sucks. No qb succeeds there.


People seem to forget or dismiss the fact that he is only 25 years old. Unless his career is cut short by injury, he should have a good 10 years or more to play. He and the Redskins may just need to cut ties after this season, because it seems like the owner is, or at least has been historically, in his corner, whereas the head coaches he hires don't want to put RG3 in a position to succeed. He needs a new home. How do you think he would do on a team like Philly?

[chitownbears22]

People seem to forget or dismiss the fact that he is only 25 years old. Unless his career is cut short by injury, he should have a good 10 years or more to play. He and the Redskins may just need to cut ties after this season, because it seems like the owner is, or at least has been historically, in his corner, whereas the head coaches he hires don't want to put RG3 in a position to succeed. He needs a new home. How do you think he would do on a team like Philly?

Philly offense requires quick reads and decisions.

RGIII just completed a throw he started last week.

Also I remember hearing all these excuses with Jason Campbell....

[NoleinJax]

Both are QBs, both had prominent college careers, both had large hype coming into the league, both play in the NFL, both play in the NFC, etc.

A lot of similarities. And on top of it I guess you could throw in that they are both black. And if you look historically in the NFL, African-American QBs in the league have struggled for the most part, especially in recent years.

Kordell Stewart had a short career that was relevant.

Akili Smith was an embarrassment to the QB position

Aaron Brooks short career.

Culpepper had 5 seasons of solid productivity

McNabb probably had the longest amount of success at the pro level.

Russell (see Akili Smith)

Jason Campbell LOL

Russell Wilson has had early success in his career, and looks to be, at the very least, a solid game manager for years to come.

Vick may be the most overrated QB of all time. He never led Atlanta to anything in his career, and he almost ruined the career of Roddy White.

While there is some success sprinkled in there for African American QBs, there are a lot more problems. The biggest would be duration of success. They QBs mentioned are all black, that is correct, I am glad you can see a pattern. But not all patterns of race are indicative of racism. The pattern could just as easily be explained by the fact that most black QBs have not shown long-term success in the NFL consistently. You could talk about the fact that most black players are not targeted to be QB, and there is a lack of data, which is true, but there are data points.

-------

Based on your responses in here, the fact that you fail to bring and objectivity to your posts, the fact that you want to derail threads based on what you presume is "racism", and the fact that you have a short fuse. I have to assume you are a tiny person, you think you are smarter than you are, and you are most likely a terrible person to exist around. Please go troll somewhere else, you are not even good at it. The good trolls at least bring some semblance of an argument to a post.

Good day.


How do you or anyone that has read this post not bring up Warren Moon? One of the best who ever played QB.

[chitownbears22]

How do you or anyone that has read this post not bring up Warren Moon? One of the best who ever played QB.

Moon was pre-1999 and the Mike Martz offense. When Martz introduced his version or AC, the entire NFL changed in regards to the QB position.

That is the only reason. Different NFL.

[NoleinJax]

There was nothing racist about my post. I was talking about the historical successes of black QBs in the NFL. Leaving out Campbell and Smith would mean that I missed data.

A QB is not successful based on their skin color, when you discuss the concept in a vacuum. If every QB was given the same circumstances when playing, Black/White doesn't matter. But when you bring the question to the current world, and reality, black/white does matter when it comes to QBs. The reasoning has nothing to do with racism though. It has to do with the development of football players. When I coached pop-warner, I had a mixture of black players and white players on my team. Guess which position the black players wanted to play? WR, RB, and CB for the most part. The white players wanted to play QB, RB, LB for the most part. The same thing happened in middle school when I played, and high school.

There are very few "bred" black QBs. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Dan Marino, John Elway, Andy Dalton, Jay Cutler, Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, David Carr, Matt Leinart, Matt Barkley, Nick Foles, Dan Orvlosky, Matt Stafford etc. were all QBs from a very young age, and some developed into good QBs in the NFL , and some weren't.

The point I am trying to make is:

A. Black QBs tend to start playing QB later in their time playing football (generally HS and some transition to QB in college)
B. Due to this late start, they are not as polished as "bred" white QBs.
C. Being black =/= you will be bad.
D. Because of historical data, and the environment of how players develop into their position, the color of someone's skin can matter in evaluation. (not because they are worse, but they may have less experience, meaning there is usually a higher learning curve.
E. Not brought up, but most black QBs in HS/College play that position because they are a dual threat (running/throwing). But coaches in HS/College will overlook sub-par throwing in cases of extreme athleticism (Vick, RGIII, RW in college). That means that their arms may not have the talent, but they create problems for a defense.

RGIII does not have great arm talent, or mental talent. He HAD great athleticism, which no longer exists. He is timid.

If you find this post to be racist, I feel sorry for you because that is not the intent. Racism generally means there is a connotation of hate. I don't hate black QBs, I dislike QBs that don't have talent. This thread is about RGIII, who I find to have little talent at this stage of his career. You have decided that since he is black, and I dislike him, that I am racist.

I am sorry you live in such a world of delusion that you need to find racism in everything. One day you will wake up an old and bitter man, and realize you are wrong for calling people racists because they do not agree with you. It is LOW and shows a LACK OF CHARACTER.

I hope you are banned soon, because you level of discussion is not positive or beneficial to a group. I tolerate people who are SLOW, and who like to troll. I have even partaken in the latter myself on occasions, but it is generally in jest and to start a contrarian conversation. You do it out of HATE. You are the reason that people should be held accountable for what they say on the internet. You actual name should be attached to your profile, because I bet mommy and society would not condone the way you talk to people.

Making statements like A in your list don't help you as is seems you stereotype black quarterbacks. Would you care to share your stereotypes about white quarterbacks? Or maybe Hawaiian ones?

[chitownbears22]

Making statements like A in your list don't help you as is seems you stereotype black quarterbacks. Would you care to share your stereotypes about white quarterbacks? Or maybe Hawaiian ones?

Go crawl in the hole from which you came.

Yes it is a broad generalization, and not 100% accurate, but more times than not it is. I cannot change it, I can see it though.

[NoleinJax]

Moon was pre-1999 and the Mike Martz offense. When Martz introduced his version or AC, the entire NFL changed in regards to the QB position.

That is the only reason. Different NFL.

Do you think Warren Moon would be a very successful NFL QB had he been born 15-20 years later?

[chitownbears22]

Do you think Warren Moon would be a very successful NFL QB had he been born 15-20 years later?

I have no idea, I am not familiar with Moon. I cannot speak to his talent.

[NeedChapmans]

How do you or anyone that has read this post not bring up Warren Moon? One of the best who ever played QB.

Because the point being made is about recent QB's. Moon started his career over 30 years ago, same w/ Cunningham. That generation of football is long gone.

Harder to find recent success, anything in our generation.

[NoleinJax]

Well he was a 1st ballot Hall of Famer and played on color tv.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Nekwa-UNM

[chitownbears22]

Well he was a 1st ballot Hall of Famer and played on color tv.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Nekwa-UNM

Oh, well I am not familiar with his play in the NFL, and a youtube video is not exactly the most reliable way to judge a player.

But before my list, that you so nicely quoted, I added the caveat "in recent years". That is because I can speak to a couple pre-99 QBs, but I can speak about most post-99 QBs. And I explained to why I choose 1999. If you want read about how the current "pass-first" NFL came to be, do some research on Mike Martz and the Greatest Show on Turf.

I have no idea what you are insinuating. Man up and say it. I live in Jacksonville too, maybe we can meet up and realize that your assumption about my views on people are completely lacking in reality. That is not a threat, that is an invitation for you to eat your words.

[NoleinJax]

lol and what words would you invite me to eat? Quotes please

[chitownbears22]

lol and what words would you invite me to eat? Quotes please

You believe I stereotype black QBs. In fact, I didn't ,someone else made the comment, and pgisback called racism. All I did was talk about the recent successes/failures of black QBs in the NFL. And gave reason as to why there are not as many black NFL QBs, from what I have seen.

There was nothing hateful in what I wrote. I tried to take an unbiased approach to writing about the topic, which I guess is sensitive for some people, for some reason.

[NoleinJax]

Making statements like A in your list don't help you as is seems you stereotype black quarterbacks. Would you care to share your stereotypes about white quarterbacks? Or maybe Hawaiian ones?

My exact words. Please show where I sad you were hateful. I said making stereotypical comments like

"The point I am trying to make is:

A. Black QBs tend to start playing QB later in their time playing football (generally HS and some transition to QB in college)
B. Due to this late start, they are not as polished as "bred" white QBs."

You may not consider that stereotyping and that's fine. We can agree to disagree. I never said what you said was hateful or that you were a racist. You millennials are so sensitive. Wait, that would be stereotyping. You are being too sensitive. I didn't realize there were such bad asses in the card collecting community in Jacksonville that just want to meet up with some random guy to have him "eat his words". Since you you weren't threatening me were you going to bring some alpha bits or something for me to eat? You and this are not worth it. Have a good one tough guy.

[chitownbears22]

Making statements like A in your list don't help you as is seems you stereotype black quarterbacks. Would you care to share your stereotypes about white quarterbacks? Or maybe Hawaiian ones?

My exact words. Please show where I sad you were hateful. I said making stereotypical comments like

"The point I am trying to make is:

A. Black QBs tend to start playing QB later in their time playing football (generally HS and some transition to QB in college)
B. Due to this late start, they are not as polished as "bred" white QBs."

You may not consider that stereotyping and that's fine. We can agree to disagree. I never said what you said was hateful or that you were a racist. You millennials are so sensitive. Wait, that would be stereotyping. You are being too sensitive. I didn't realize there were such bad asses in the card collecting community in Jacksonville that just want to meet up with some random guy to have him "eat his words". Since you you weren't threatening me were you going to bring some alpha bits or something for me to eat? You and this are not worth it. Have a good one tough guy.

Actually was an offer to talk sports and cards with someone local. Through that you would realize that I do not stereotype people. Wasn't being tough at all.

And what you brought up is not stereotyping. It is stating something that I have seen, it is a pattern.

Have a good day.

I go to D&J if you ever want to meet up and bust some wax and trade.

[NoleinJax]

Actually was an offer to talk sports and cards with someone local. Through that you would realize that I do not stereotype people. Wasn't being tough at all.

And what you brought up is not stereotyping. It is stating something that I have seen, it is a pattern.

Have a good day.

I go to D&J if you ever want to meet up and bust some wax and trade.

Ok. My bad for misinterpreting what you said. I try to stay away from the places around here because I inevitably spend more money than I wanted to and their prices are usually significantly higher than what I can find online. If they were even close I'd probably buy more from them. Most of my football stuff is from 2012 as that's when I started back collecting. I didn't do much in 2013 or 2014, but plan to go after a few guys. Really waiting for Chrome to drop as I've got a case on preorder. I'd like to get a few cases of it if I can as it's a fun cheap break with a chance at some monster cards. I'd rather bust 2 cases of Chrome or 4 cases of 2014 Chrome than 1 case of National Treasures.

[chitownbears22]

Ok. My bad for misinterpreting what you said. I try to stay away from the places around here because I inevitably spend more money than I wanted to and their prices are usually significantly higher than what I can find online. If they were even close I'd probably buy more from them. Most of my football stuff is from 2012 as that's when I started back collecting. I didn't do much in 2013 or 2014, but plan to go after a few guys. Really waiting for Chrome to drop as I've got a case on preorder. I'd like to get a few cases of it if I can as it's a fun cheap break with a chance at some monster cards. I'd rather bust 2 cases of Chrome or 4 cases of 2014 Chrome than 1 case of National Treasures.

Thinking about doing chrome this year. I will shoot you a message if you want to split something, I would be down. D&J is not too bad of a place, the owner is great with my son and always hooks me up with deals.

[NoleinJax]

Thinking about doing chrome this year. I will shoot you a message if you want to split something, I would be down. D&J is not too bad of a place, the owner is great with my son and always hooks me up with deals.

Gotcha. I bought some stuff from there 2-3 years ago and even took part in a group break there.

[pgisback]

Addicted is that you? So anyone who thinks RGIII is washed up is racist? Anyone who looks at the fact that historically in the NFL black QBs have not fared well is a racist? Sorry facts are facts, historically outside of about 3 or 4 its hard to find a black QB who had any real success in the NFL. I guess that makes me a racist as well.. You lost all credibility when you played the race card.

Well, since you didn't read the conversation and created a logical fallacy that because I called this individual a racist means anyone who dislikes RG3 is a racist you've lost all credibility to me. His reasoning for disliking rg3 was very racist. Not sure what other conclusion you can come to there unless you agree with him that because he's a black qb he can't succeed in the NFL.

[pgisback]

Both are QBs, both had prominent college careers, both had large hype coming into the league, both play in the NFL, both play in the NFC, etc.

A lot of similarities. And on top of it I guess you could throw in that they are both black. And if you look historically in the NFL, African-American QBs in the league have struggled for the most part, especially in recent years.

Kordell Stewart had a short career that was relevant.

Akili Smith was an embarrassment to the QB position

Aaron Brooks short career.

Culpepper had 5 seasons of solid productivity

McNabb probably had the longest amount of success at the pro level.

Russell (see Akili Smith)

Jason Campbell LOL

Russell Wilson has had early success in his career, and looks to be, at the very least, a solid game manager for years to come.

Vick may be the most overrated QB of all time. He never led Atlanta to anything in his career, and he almost ruined the career of Roddy White.

While there is some success sprinkled in there for African American QBs, there are a lot more problems. The biggest would be duration of success. They QBs mentioned are all black, that is correct, I am glad you can see a pattern. But not all patterns of race are indicative of racism. The pattern could just as easily be explained by the fact that most black QBs have not shown long-term success in the NFL consistently. You could talk about the fact that most black players are not targeted to be QB, and there is a lack of data, which is true, but there are data points.

-------

Based on your responses in here, the fact that you fail to bring and objectivity to your posts, the fact that you want to derail threads based on what you presume is "racism", and the fact that you have a short fuse. I have to assume you are a tiny person, you think you are smarter than you are, and you are most likely a terrible person to exist around. Please go troll somewhere else, you are not even good at it. The good trolls at least bring some semblance of an argument to a post.

Good day.

By the way shreve, this was what I was responding to when I brought up race. Bringing up Jamarcus Russell, Akili Smith, and Jason Campbell in discussing whether or not RG3 is a good qb is racism. There are no similarities between those qbs and RG3 other than their skin color. I personally do not base my opinions about how quarterbacks perform on the field based on the color of their skin. Not going to lie.

[Ray27Ray52]

By the way shreve, this was what I was responding to when I brought up race. Bringing up Jamarcus Russell, Akili Smith, and Jason Campbell in discussing whether or not RG3 is a good qb is racism. There are no similarities between those qbs and RG3 other than their skin color. I personally do not base my opinions about how quarterbacks perform on the field based on the color of their skin. Not going to lie.

Never mind. I'm beating a dead horse...

[pgisback]

Why do you end so many of your posts with "not going to lie"?

Because I like to. Not going to lie.

[Ray27Ray52]

Because I like to. Not going to lie.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. Now I'm convinced that you were dropped on your head as a baby. You have my pity.

[pgisback]

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. Now I'm convinced that you were dropped on your head as a baby. You have my pity.

Thanks. You seem like a good person.

[Ray27Ray52]

Thanks. You seem like a good person.

I try to be, other than when I am attending Klan meetings with chitownbears. You know, because it's impossible to have an opinion on a QB who happens to be black without being labeled a racist.

[pgisback]

I try to be, other than when I am attending Klan meetings with chitownbears. You know, because it's impossible to have an opinion on a QB who happens to be black without being labeled a racist.

Never said that, but whatever makes you happy. Not here to fight. The chitown guy wanted to argue and he brought race up, and I responded. For some reason you think that means I think anyone who dislikes RG3 is a racist. But, anyone willing to stick up for that guy probably would not like me or be someone I want to associate with. So carry on.

[panther252]

I like this thread, not gonna lie.

[FanboyOfNone]

I think I picked a strange time to finally click this topic...

The History of the Black QB: Part I » Pro-football-reference.com blog » Blog Archive (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=476)

Was written in 2008, but if their data adds up...a total of 57 African American took snaps in the NFL until that point. If you account for 2 - 3 QBs on every team's roster each season, that's 64 - 96 QBs in the NFL. Each year.

Yes, seven years have passed. Still I'm claiming small sample size on the whole argument. How many "White" QBs have "failed" since the NFL's inception? That number is likely *much* higher than African American QBs who have ever played in the NFL total.

I assume a sociology expert (or ten) could work this all out. I don't know what causes someone of a specific race, religion, or creed to pick a sport and a position within that sport. But in my teens, I saw Asian Americans - I'm half-Asian, half-White myself - become MLB and NBA stars in small numbers. It was an eventuality, even it was "strange" to some for a while.

In the end, it all comes down to the individual I'd say. Put me in the war room for a decade and I'll draft a team of 53 George Takei clones, Wookies, or evil space robots if they look good on tape. :D


(Disclaimer: Not calling anyone out here. Just attempting to add perspective.)

[chitownbears22]

I think I picked a strange time to finally click this topic...

The History of the Black QB: Part I » Pro-football-reference.com blog » Blog Archive (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=476)

Was written in 2008, but if their data adds up...a total of 57 African American took snaps in the NFL until that point. If you account for 2 - 3 QBs on every team's roster each season, that's 64 - 96 QBs in the NFL. Each year.

Yes, seven years have passed. Still I'm claiming small sample size on the whole argument. How many "White" QBs have "failed" since the NFL's inception? That number is likely *much* higher than African American QBs who have ever played in the NFL total.

I assume a sociology expert (or ten) could work this all out. I don't know what causes someone of a specific race, religion, or creed to pick a sport and a position within that sport. But in my teens, I saw Asian Americans - I'm half-Asian, half-White myself - become MLB and NBA stars in small numbers. It was an eventuality, even it was "strange" to some for a while.

In the end, it all comes down to the individual I'd say. Put me in the war room for a decade and I'll draft a team of 53 George Takei clones, Wookies, or evil space robots if they look good on tape. :D


(Disclaimer: Not calling anyone out here. Just attempting to add perspective.)

Fanboy, that is a great article. I just finished a little write-up that I will post after this discussing the topic. (I have very little to do at work, and the topic interested me so I decided to expand upon my VERY RACIST thoughts).

[chitownbears22]

Yes I know it is a long read (1985 words, makes me miss undergrad)

Let me preface this by stating that I have no personal bias towards any race. What I am writing is strictly from a historical aspect of the QB positions, and based off of facts.

-----

I cannot speak for the QB play for anyone prior to 1999, there just isn’t enough 22 film openly available to get a real feel for how the game was played. I can discuss the offenses ran, the game flow, and the overall style of the game. Quarterbacks before 1999 were rarely in a pass first offense. Only a few notable QBs were truly considered “pass first”. Brett Favre and Dan Marino would be the closest example of leaders in pass first offenses. This is not entirely important to the discussion at this time, but will become more prevalent as we move along.

Why so few African-American QBs before 1999?

There are a few notable African American QBs that played in the league before 1999. From the highlights that I have watched, they seemed talented. I cannot speak to their overall game, there just isn’t enough full-game video to get an overall feel for how they played. One of the biggest reasons, in my opinion, that you didn’t see many black QBs was because of the time, and societal atmosphere. Football as a game has firm roots planted in the south, and generally in poor areas of the south. These are locations that didn’t have the metropolitan pull to garner having a professional football team, but the pop-warner, high-school and college football culture encapsulated the region (it still does today).

It is hard to argue that racial tension and racism didn’t exist in these areas, and one could assume that it played a role into why you saw so few black QBs in the NFL or even college. Racial biases and fallacies within thought played a role when it came to selecting a QB for a team. The QB is thought of the leader, he is charged with commanding the offense, and knowing the ins and outs of the playbook. It was a common thought that African-Americans were inferior when it came to thought and the ability to lead. This social stigma was not only seen in football, but within the military and upper education system. Due to this you saw fewer black QBs within the 60s,70s, 80s, and even 90s.
(more to follow on this topic and how it relates to the 2000s)

Why only 21% in the current NFL?

By the late 80’s early 90’s a lot of the bias that was brought on by fallacy, had been proven to be completely false when it comes to an African-Americans ability to learn or lead. But there were still a low number of black QBs in the NFL. This, in my opinion, stems from two main reasons. The first is the learning curve, not from a player aspect, but from a coaching aspect. The second reason comes from opportunity and a risk of staying within a niche position.

When I say there is a learning curve from a coaching aspect, I mean it in reference to scheming for a multi-threat QB (Note that I am discussing 90’s and early 2000’s). When I say multi-threat I mean QBs that can both throw and run (Kordell Stewart, Michael Vick). There still wasn’t a great NFL playbook that could take advantage of both the speed and arm of multi-threat QBs. One reason for this is because we have not really seen too many QBs that possess both running ability and a pure throwing arm (clarity: there is no Peyton Manning with Mike Vick legs). Generally running QBs are athletic freaks but had arms that were average when it came to accuracy, ability to throw the route tree, etc. That meant that coordinators had to tailor offenses to meet this criterion. It took years for Air Coryell and the West Coast Offense to be developed, so we should have expected that it would take time to create an offense that takes advantage of strong running prowess with the ability to throw. (More to follow in “Current NFL and the Evolution of the Playbook)

The second reason you see so few black QBs is opportunity. Fast twitch muscle fibers are said to be in higher quantity in people of Western African decedents. There has been some form of evolution that has created this genetic mutation. Fast twitch muscles impacts sprinting, jumping, endurance, and even tempo movements (in football think of “fast choppy feet”).

I am going tangent here with a personal story with coaching. I had a team of 20 players, 15 white 5 black. Every single one of these kids could not throw worth a damn, go figure, they are 12. The league was competitive and the kids/parents wanted to win games. So that meant putting your best players on the field in positions where they will excel, but at the same time everyone needed to play (league rule). As a coach you have to make decisions. I had two boys on the team that wanted to play quarterback, one was black and one was white. They had equal throwing talent (meaning they could throw the ball 10 yards, wowzers!!!), the black boy was an athlete, he was fast, was able to catch, had pretty good vision as a running back. However the white boy could barely walk a chew gum, so having him play any position of athletic skill would be a detriment to the team. So I had the white kid be the QB and the black kid played RB. The sole deciding factor was, there was no difference who played QB, but a huge difference with who played RB. Decision was simple, but race had nothing to do with it.

Why does this have anything to do with opportunity? This happens at in a lot of leagues from what I have seen and heard from other coaches and players. That means there is now a white player who is getting more reps at QB from a young age compared to the black kid who is now playing RB or WR or CB or any other athletic skillset position. So the next year when these kids are 13, the coach asks “what position did you play last year?” the kids answer and are most likely playing that same position, because of familiarity. When you reach high school and college you have the small collection of black QBs who could throw well enough in pop-warner and middle school, who can also run. Antwan Randle El was one of my favorite college QBs. Many don’t remember, but it was Randle El and Drew Brees that overshadowed and outshined Tom Brady in college. I bring up Randle El, because he is a player that had to make a decision. He had to decide if he wanted to be a UDFA NFL QB or a drafted WR. He understood that his ability to run was exceptional within college, he could take advantage of the overall slower speed of the game. He also knew that in the NFL every linebacker runs a sub 4.8 for the most part, and that his speed will not be as big of an advantage, especially since he was not a huge threat as a passer (accuracy issues). So he knew opportunities would be reduced in the NFL, unless he switched positions.

Current NFL and the Evolution of the Playbook

Now in 2012 something interesting happened, a quarterback was drafted in the 3rd round and was the new project of “out of the box” coach Pete Carroll. Seahawks fans can attest to how odd this man was when he joined the Seahawks as head coach. In the 3rd round he drafted Russell Wilson out of Wisconsin. An undersized, small handed, speedster QB, who had a cannon of an arm and a rare touch when it came to accuracy. Wilson was not supposed to start the 2012 season, Matt Flynn was brought in from Green Bay to handle the play calling duties until Wilson was ready. During OTA’s, training camp, and preseason Wilson and Carroll took the league by storm. Wilson wasn’t a running QB that the NFL had seen before. Generally in the past multi-threat QBs were 1 read, then run. Wilson had the ability to read coverages, go through his progressions, throw just about any pass on the route tree, and instead of just running, he used his legs to extend plays by rolling the pocket. By doing this he opened up huge gaps in coverage, and when the play finally broke down and pressure got to him, he took off and picked up huge yardage with his feet. This was by design, this is why Carroll liked Wilson. He was Drew Brees with Mike Vick breakaway speed. The passing offense that you see in Seattle is what you see in New Orleans, but there are designed runs with the QB. Watch Drew Brees and NO and watch how the offense extends plays by moving the pocket, then watch Seattle and you will see the same thing, the only difference is that Brees generally throws the ball away when there is a broken play.

This brings hope to the growth and development of African-American multi-threat QBs. Coaching is finally catching up and designing versions of the WCA and AC to fit these types of QBs. Buffalo may be the next test bed for this type of offense with Tyrod Taylor, a QB that has pretty decent accuracy and the ability to stretch the field because of his arm strength (who knows if Rex Ryan has been paying attention to RW and Seattle).

Conclusion

So there is a mixture of reasons as to why you see so few successful QBs in the NFL. One of the most promising black-pocket QBs since 2000 was Jamarcus Russell. He had a cannon of an arm and the ability to make any throw on the route tree from the pocket, however he failed in the NFL because he was not dedicated or mature. Since then, there has been one pocket QB that has bucked the system, Cam Newton. Now in his 5th year he has climbed the ranks and could be argued that he is a top-12 QB in the league. While he is athletic and can run, he does most of his work on roll outs and pocket passes. This year another black pocket QB was drafted. He has been touted as having one of the best quarterback minds in the past 15 years. Jamesis Winston is working to be another quality pocket passing QB in the NFL, much like Cam Newton.

The environment is changing, that can be seen on every level. Any kid that wants to play QB has the opportunity, and a lot of the stigmas are being left in history. Coaching is adapting at the pro-level to benefit the multi-threat QB, coaches at younger levels are giving opportunities to both black and white children that have the desire to play QB. It will continue to change as quarterbacks like Wilson, Cam, and Jamesis enter the league and buck the trends of old.
----

Now when it comes to RGIII, he was never a great pocket passer. He was dangerous because of his legs. Since his injury in 2012, Washington has tried to transition him to a pocket/semi-mobile QB, but the experiment has failed. He lacks accuracy, the ability to read a D pre-snap, he does not keep his eyes down field during his drop back (thus missing routes opening up), he panics within the pocket (even when it is not collapsing, and he has poor mechanics in his drop back which causes him to hold onto the ball for too long, thus taking more abuse.

It isn’t a race thing, it is a talent thing, and RGIII has no pocket-QB talent.

[lindeman79]

Go Green Go White

http://media.giphy.com/media/T3fnLTn3SpMIw/giphy.gif

[FanboyOfNone]

Yes I know it is a long read (1985 words, makes me miss undergrad)

Let me preface this by stating that I have no personal bias towards any race. What I am writing is strictly from a historical aspect of the QB positions, and based off of facts.

-----

I cannot speak for the QB play for anyone prior to 1999, there just isn’t enough 22 film openly available to get a real feel for how the game was played. I can discuss the offenses ran, the game flow, and the overall style of the game. Quarterbacks before 1999 were rarely in a pass first offense. Only a few notable QBs were truly considered “pass first”. Brett Favre and Dan Marino would be the closest example of leaders in pass first offenses. This is not entirely important to the discussion at this time, but will become more prevalent as we move along.

Why so few African-American QBs before 1999?

There are a few notable African American QBs that played in the league before 1999. From the highlights that I have watched, they seemed talented. I cannot speak to their overall game, there just isn’t enough full-game video to get an overall feel for how they played. One of the biggest reasons, in my opinion, that you didn’t see many black QBs was because of the time, and societal atmosphere. Football as a game has firm roots planted in the south, and generally in poor areas of the south. These are locations that didn’t have the metropolitan pull to garner having a professional football team, but the pop-warner, high-school and college football culture encapsulated the region (it still does today).

It is hard to argue that racial tension and racism didn’t exist in these areas, and one could assume that it played a role into why you saw so few black QBs in the NFL or even college. Racial biases and fallacies within thought played a role when it came to selecting a QB for a team. The QB is thought of the leader, he is charged with commanding the offense, and knowing the ins and outs of the playbook. It was a common thought that African-Americans were inferior when it came to thought and the ability to lead. This social stigma was not only seen in football, but within the military and upper education system. Due to this you saw fewer black QBs within the 60s,70s, 80s, and even 90s.
(more to follow on this topic and how it relates to the 2000s)

Why only 21% in the current NFL?

By the late 80’s early 90’s a lot of the bias that was brought on by fallacy, had been proven to be completely false when it comes to an African-Americans ability to learn or lead. But there were still a low number of black QBs in the NFL. This, in my opinion, stems from two main reasons. The first is the learning curve, not from a player aspect, but from a coaching aspect. The second reason comes from opportunity and a risk of staying within a niche position.

When I say there is a learning curve from a coaching aspect, I mean it in reference to scheming for a multi-threat QB (Note that I am discussing 90’s and early 2000’s). When I say multi-threat I mean QBs that can both throw and run (Kordell Stewart, Michael Vick). There still wasn’t a great NFL playbook that could take advantage of both the speed and arm of multi-threat QBs. One reason for this is because we have not really seen too many QBs that possess both running ability and a pure throwing arm (clarity: there is no Peyton Manning with Mike Vick legs). Generally running QBs are athletic freaks but had arms that were average when it came to accuracy, ability to throw the route tree, etc. That meant that coordinators had to tailor offenses to meet this criterion. It took years for Air Coryell and the West Coast Offense to be developed, so we should have expected that it would take time to create an offense that takes advantage of strong running prowess with the ability to throw. (More to follow in “Current NFL and the Evolution of the Playbook)

The second reason you see so few black QBs is opportunity. Fast twitch muscle fibers are said to be in higher quantity in people of Western African decedents. There has been some form of evolution that has created this genetic mutation. Fast twitch muscles impacts sprinting, jumping, endurance, and even tempo movements (in football think of “fast choppy feet”).

I am going tangent here with a personal story with coaching. I had a team of 20 players, 15 white 5 black. Every single one of these kids could not throw worth a damn, go figure, they are 12. The league was competitive and the kids/parents wanted to win games. So that meant putting your best players on the field in positions where they will excel, but at the same time everyone needed to play (league rule). As a coach you have to make decisions. I had two boys on the team that wanted to play quarterback, one was black and one was white. They had equal throwing talent (meaning they could throw the ball 10 yards, wowzers!!!), the black boy was an athlete, he was fast, was able to catch, had pretty good vision as a running back. However the white boy could barely walk a chew gum, so having him play any position of athletic skill would be a detriment to the team. So I had the white kid be the QB and the black kid played RB. The sole deciding factor was, there was no difference who played QB, but a huge difference with who played RB. Decision was simple, but race had nothing to do with it.

Why does this have anything to do with opportunity? This happens at in a lot of leagues from what I have seen and heard from other coaches and players. That means there is now a white player who is getting more reps at QB from a young age compared to the black kid who is now playing RB or WR or CB or any other athletic skillset position. So the next year when these kids are 13, the coach asks “what position did you play last year?” the kids answer and are most likely playing that same position, because of familiarity. When you reach high school and college you have the small collection of black QBs who could throw well enough in pop-warner and middle school, who can also run. Antwan Randle El was one of my favorite college QBs. Many don’t remember, but it was Randle El and Drew Brees that overshadowed and outshined Tom Brady in college. I bring up Randle El, because he is a player that had to make a decision. He had to decide if he wanted to be a UDFA NFL QB or a drafted WR. He understood that his ability to run was exceptional within college, he could take advantage of the overall slower speed of the game. He also knew that in the NFL every linebacker runs a sub 4.8 for the most part, and that his speed will not be as big of an advantage, especially since he was not a huge threat as a passer (accuracy issues). So he knew opportunities would be reduced in the NFL, unless he switched positions.

Current NFL and the Evolution of the Playbook

Now in 2012 something interesting happened, a quarterback was drafted in the 3rd round and was the new project of “out of the box” coach Pete Carroll. Seahawks fans can attest to how odd this man was when he joined the Seahawks as head coach. In the 3rd round he drafted Russell Wilson out of Wisconsin. An undersized, small handed, speedster QB, who had a cannon of an arm and a rare touch when it came to accuracy. Wilson was not supposed to start the 2012 season, Matt Flynn was brought in from Green Bay to handle the play calling duties until Wilson was ready. During OTA’s, training camp, and preseason Wilson and Carroll took the league by storm. Wilson wasn’t a running QB that the NFL had seen before. Generally in the past multi-threat QBs were 1 read, then run. Wilson had the ability to read coverages, go through his progressions, throw just about any pass on the route tree, and instead of just running, he used his legs to extend plays by rolling the pocket. By doing this he opened up huge gaps in coverage, and when the play finally broke down and pressure got to him, he took off and picked up huge yardage with his feet. This was by design, this is why Carroll liked Wilson. He was Drew Brees with Mike Vick breakaway speed. The passing offense that you see in Seattle is what you see in New Orleans, but there are designed runs with the QB. Watch Drew Brees and NO and watch how the offense extends plays by moving the pocket, then watch Seattle and you will see the same thing, the only difference is that Brees generally throws the ball away when there is a broken play.

This brings hope to the growth and development of African-American multi-threat QBs. Coaching is finally catching up and designing versions of the WCA and AC to fit these types of QBs. Buffalo may be the next test bed for this type of offense with Tyrod Taylor, a QB that has pretty decent accuracy and the ability to stretch the field because of his arm strength (who knows if Rex Ryan has been paying attention to RW and Seattle).

Conclusion

So there is a mixture of reasons as to why you see so few successful QBs in the NFL. One of the most promising black-pocket QBs since 2000 was Jamarcus Russell. He had a cannon of an arm and the ability to make any throw on the route tree from the pocket, however he failed in the NFL because he was not dedicated or mature. Since then, there has been one pocket QB that has bucked the system, Cam Newton. Now in his 5th year he has climbed the ranks and could be argued that he is a top-12 QB in the league. While he is athletic and can run, he does most of his work on roll outs and pocket passes. This year another black pocket QB was drafted. He has been touted as having one of the best quarterback minds in the past 15 years. Jamesis Winston is working to be another quality pocket passing QB in the NFL, much like Cam Newton.

The environment is changing, that can be seen on every level. Any kid that wants to play QB has the opportunity, and a lot of the stigmas are being left in history. Coaching is adapting at the pro-level to benefit the multi-threat QB, coaches at younger levels are giving opportunities to both black and white children that have the desire to play QB. It will continue to change as quarterbacks like Wilson, Cam, and Jamesis enter the league and buck the trends of old.
----

Now when it comes to RGIII, he was never a great pocket passer. He was dangerous because of his legs. Since his injury in 2012, Washington has tried to transition him to a pocket/semi-mobile QB, but the experiment has failed. He lacks accuracy, the ability to read a D pre-snap, he does not keep his eyes down field during his drop back (thus missing routes opening up), he panics within the pocket (even when it is not collapsing, and he has poor mechanics in his drop back which causes him to hold onto the ball for too long, thus taking more abuse.

It isn’t a race thing, it is a talent thing, and RGIII has no pocket-QB talent.

Good read!

I liked your coaching anecdote. A possible example for the beginnings of a future superstar, and why he "chose" his position.

As for the Russell Wilson portion. I just wish him and RG3 could trade teams for a season. No guesses on how far RG3('s defense) could take the Seahawks, but I'd love to see a Wilson-led Redskins win the NFC East. :D

[shrevecity]

Because I like to. Not going to lie.

But you said RGIIII is an elite NFL qb..

Fact is RGIII is not a pocket passer and QBs who are not tend to be great QBs in college but not in the NFL, you also brought up that he won the Heisman, how many players especially QBs who won that award went on to NFL success? RGIII shined his forst year mainly because he was unknown to most defenses and he had speed, but injuries have slowed him and defenses have learned his habits and adjusted their game to counter any real advantage his speed has. Unless he learns to keep looking for receivers even if in trouble he is going to keep taking hits and sacks, but right now once he sees trouble his instinct is to tuck the ball and take the hit.

[chitownbears22]

Benched....must be because people are racist...

[Shogun2049]

Hope he doesn't injure his throwing arm carrying that clipboard around.