Consecutive Run of 13 Trimmed BGS 9.5 McDavid SPAs- Sold by Robert Block via PWCC
 

See here for more info on Robert Block:

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295881[/url]

All are consecutive BGS serial numbers. 6/13 proven trimmed. At least 10 sold via PWCC.

[B]9403355[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 546/999 9.5
[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1860737[/url]
[B]9403356 [/B]2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 444/999 9.5
TRIMMED: [url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1585298[/url] [url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2015-16-ud-future-watch-autograph-999-1821549001[/url]
[B]9403357[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 646/999 9.5
TRIMMED: [url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1374105[/url] [url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/connor-mcdavid-2015-16-sp-authentic-1823447048[/url]
[B]9403358[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 549/999 9.5
[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1433778[/url]
[B]9403359[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 539/999 9.5
[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1360047[/url]
[B]9403360[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 500/999 9.5
[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1935975[/url]
[B]9403361[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 544/999 9.5
TRIMMED: [url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1400858[/url] [url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2015-16-sp-authentic-future-watch-rc-1820470165[/url]
[B]9403362[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 351/999 9.5
TRIMMED: [url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1472205[/url] [url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2015-16-sp-authentic-connor-mcdavid-1820858792[/url]
[B]9403363[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 316/999 9.5
TRIMMED: [url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1497090[/url] [url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2015-16-sp-authentic-connor-mcdavid-1822012480[/url]
[B]9403364[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC /999 9.5
[B]9403365 [/B]2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 325/999 9.5
TRIMMED: [url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1846775[/url] [url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/connor-mcdavid-rc-2015-16-15-16-sp-1820466837[/url]
Feedback: [url]https://web.archive.org/web/20190408014825/https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers&userid=spartak27&iid=-1&de=off&items=200&searchInterval=30&mPg=19&keyword=112413331212&page=7[/url]
[B]9403366[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC 295/999 9.5
[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1456924[/url]
[B]9403367[/B] 2015-16 SP Authentic Connor McDavid AU RC /999 9.5


[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/R0AzQcp.jpg?1[/IMG]

Holy smokes

Nothing is safe!! Nothing!! Bob is on the chopping block!

Yeah this is getting ridiculous.

So theres no way for BGS to know its trimmed? I assume bc some cards are cut slightly marginally larger/smaller so they have no way of knowing?

I knew grading was a sham when a guy sold me a Mookie Chrome Gold Auto rc /50 BGS 9, he proceeded to tell me how he had two BGS 9s, and the other one the guy cracked out and it came back a 10! He was mad he thought they were undergraded that day...So I cracked it, resubbed it came back a near 10... It was BGS 9.5 with subs of 10/10/9.5/9.5. Highest gold 9.5 ever.

Pretty good BGS sub from Block, huh? This goes on and on and on. Just a sample. PWCC sold all or almost all.

9784134 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Kris Bryant 10
9784135 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Kris Bryant 10
9784136 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Kris Bryant 9
9784137 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Kris Bryant 9.5
9784138 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Kris Bryant 9.5
9784139 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Kris Bryant 9.5
9784140 NO RECORD
9784141 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Kris Bryant 9.5
9784142 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Kris Bryant 9.5
9784143 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Kris Bryant 9.5
Feedback: [url]https://web.archive.org/web/20190320172646/https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers&userid=zete&iid=-1&de=off&searchInterval=30&items=200&searchInterval=30[/url]
9784144 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Kris Bryant 10
9784145 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Refractors Kris Bryant 10
9784146 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Refractors Kris Bryant Black Label
9784147 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Draft Pick Autographs Refractors Kris Bryant 10
9784148 2011 Topps Update Mike Trout 10
9784149 1989 Upper Deck Griffey 9.5
9784150 1989 Upper Deck Griffey 10
9784151 2000 Bowman Chrome Brady 10
9784152 1989 Score Barry Sanders 10
9784153 1996-97 Topps Chrome Refractors Kobe 10
9784154 1997-98 Topps Chrome Refractors Duncan 9.5
9784155 2007-08 Topps Chrome Refractors Durant 9.5
9784156 2003-04 Topps Chrome Lebron James 10
9784157 2003-04 Topps Chrome Lebron James 10
9784158 2003-04 Topps Chrome Lebron James 10
9784159 NO RECORD
9784160 2003-04 Topps Chrome Lebron James 10
9784161 2003-04 Topps Chrome Refractors Lebron James 9.5
9784162 2003-04 Topps Chrome Refractors Lebron James 9.5
9784163 2003-04 Topps Chrome Refractors Lebron James 9.5
9784164 NO RECORD
9784165 2002-03 Finest Lebon James 10
9784166 2003-04 Bowman Chrome Lebron James 10
9784167 2003-04 Bowman Chrome Lebron James 10
9784168 2003-04 Bowman Chrome Lebron James 10
9784169 2003-04 Bowman Chrome Lebron James 10
[B]9784170 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784171 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784172 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784173 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784174 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784175 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784176 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784177 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784178 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784179 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784180 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784181 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG Black Label
9784182 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784183 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784184 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG 10
9784185 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG Black Label
9784186 2005-06 Upper Deck Sidney Crosby YG 10
9784187 2015-16 Upper Deck Ice Connor McDavid /99 10
9784188 2016-17 Upper Deck Auston Mathews YG 10
9784189 2016-17 Upper Deck Auston Mathews YG 10
9784190 2015-16 Upper Deck Connor McDavid YG Black Label
9784191 2016-17 Upper Deck Auston Mathews YG Black Label
9784192 2016-17 Upper Deck Auston Mathews YG Black Label
9784193 2016-17 Upper Deck Auston Mathews YG Black Label[/B]
9784194 2003-04 Ultimate Collection Lebron James AU RC 10

[QUOTE=cardsharkk;14703616]So theres no way for BGS to know its trimmed? I assume bc some cards are cut slightly marginally larger/smaller so they have no way of knowing?[/QUOTE]

They don't measure anything. Save maybe Brady Contenders and a select few similar cards.

[QUOTE=3124508 on COMC;14703628]They don't measure anything. Save maybe Brady Contenders and a select few similar cards.[/QUOTE]

Oh ok thanks. But theres gotta be a way to stop this. Its ruining our hobby. I can only imagine if this keeps up for another few years how many more cards will be trimmed/ruined for huge profit

My Bgs 9 would be prime for this guy. It was big outta the pack and wouldn’t fit in a one touch. The edges on these cards are rough in general

Here's another. Unknown origin. Left edge.

[url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/connor-mcdavid-2015-16-sp-authentic-1890338264[/url]
[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1895330[/url]


[IMG]https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/1017/08/connor-mcdavid-2015-16-sp-authentic_1_8fbfe18221031baecb8b7b14d3fb9302.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/pwccauctions/2019/2019_1/7997_1219A71_1.jpg[/IMG]

And another. Left edge.

[url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/connor-mcdavid-2015-16-sp-authentic-1923619680[/url]
[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1874854[/url]

[IMG]https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0418/17/connor-mcdavid-2015-16-sp-authentic_1_b9c5606729773d3232d402de82ecf445.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/pwccauctions/2018/2018_11/7991_1116B41_3.jpg[/IMG]

Deleted.

Left edge a bit and top edge as well. BGS 9 at one point.

[url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2015-16-sp-authentic-connor-mcdavid-1839953101[/url]

[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1583755[/url]


[IMG]https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/1116/18/2015-16-sp-authentic-connor-mcdavid_1_4faabb5f30299da893927afc30eae678.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/pwccauctions/2017/2017_10/7887_1011E129_4.jpg[/IMG]

Top edge. Easy to see from back using lighter triangle on border.

[url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/connor-mcdavid-autographed-future-1820685926[/url]

[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1453872[/url]


[IMG]https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0716/09/connor-mcdavid-autographed-future_1_fd0424d0723a03e5031b04c6afcff40a.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/pwccauctions/2017/2017_2/7831_0213A199_4.jpg[/IMG]

Left edge trimmed. Use arm.

[url]https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2015-16-sp-authentic-connor-mcdavid-1821388524[/url]

[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1374107[/url]

[IMG]https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0716/18/2015-16-sp-authentic-connor-mcdavid_1_866829d882c3899cabd4eab514cd74d3.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/pwccauctions/2016/2016_8/7797_47_2.jpg[/IMG]

this needs to be crossposted to HI for sure. wow.

[QUOTE=cardsharkk;14703643]Oh ok thanks. But theres gotta be a way to stop this. Its ruining our hobby. I can only imagine if this keeps up for another few years how many more cards will be trimmed/ruined for huge profit[/QUOTE]

He has been doing this for way more than a few years already.

[QUOTE=JMANIA;14703846]He has been doing this for way more than a few years already.[/QUOTE]

It's difficult to believe major sellers to whom he consigned were not aware of his reputation, or did not become suspicious at some point.

This card is a very difficult 9.5 or 10 “naturally” the blade upper deck cut it with must of been beat to shi....

[QUOTE=charnick;14703825]this needs to be crossposted to HI for sure. wow.[/QUOTE]

Someone wanted me to make an account there, so I got as far as hitting the register button before stopping because it wanted a full name, phone number, etc, etc.

I kind of get, the Grading company's are too busy, and all that other talk as to why and how it gets through and re-graded.

If it has never been graded, or is being re-graded by a different company, ok, grade it if nothing jumps out as, wow, this has been altered. But when a numbered card gets graded, and then regraded and regraded... and all of a sudden a 9 becomes a 10.. red flags should be flying. Not hard for them to keep a data base of the cards they grade, they already keep track of what they grade.

There was a gent on this board or HI, buying up all the mcdavid spa rookies he could get at eBay or just over eBay pricing might have been a year back. I’m going to look and see if any of these cards were involved.


Absolutely no judgment at this time


Pacman

[QUOTE=Pacman69;14704170]There was a gent on this board or HI, buying up all the mcdavid spa rookies he could get at eBay or just over eBay pricing might have been a year back. I’m going to look and see if any of these cards were involved.


Absolutely no judgment at this time


Pacman[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the tip. Familiar name was buying them up on here.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/vVnxmWF.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/K9WUiLB.jpg[/IMG]

Interesting

Wow this is just brutal. Eye opening, but brutal.

So I should assume that the lone PSA 10 McDavid FWA that's up on eBay by dmarcus8 is trimmed, correct?

[img]https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uvMAAOSwy~Jb4ngQ/s-l1600.jpg[/img]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-SP-Authentic-226-Connor-McDavid-Auto-999-RC-Gem-Mint-PSA-10/202648206034?hash=item2f2ec63ad2:g:uvMAAOSwy~Jb4ngQ:sc:USPSFirstClass!49090!US!-1[/url]

Correct. dmarcus8 seems to be in the middle of a lot of different scams. Not sure if you saw his ID in the Members Feedback thread.

[QUOTE=regularp;14704440]So I should assume that the lone PSA 10 McDavid FWA that's up on eBay by dmarcus8 is trimmed, correct?

[img]https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uvMAAOSwy~Jb4ngQ/s-l1600.jpg[/img]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-SP-Authentic-226-Connor-McDavid-Auto-999-RC-Gem-Mint-PSA-10/202648206034?hash=item2f2ec63ad2:g:uvMAAOSwy~Jb4ngQ:sc:USPSFirstClass!49090!US!-1[/url][/QUOTE]

Slabheads hoping this blows over, not happening.

[QUOTE=chezball;14705311]Slabheads hoping this blows over, not happening.[/QUOTE]

Whether you collect graded or not this is not good for the hobby. Raw cards floating out there are the rejects that didn’t get trimmed correctly.

Because of stuff like this I stopped collecting ultra high end a while ago. Prices have been careening out of control and the hobby itself (hockey to a lesser extent) is rife with fraud and deceit. In agreement with chezball, I don’t see this blowing over. Sports collectibles are, in a sense, fiat in nature. Having no inherent value, the value of cards is only validated by people’s faith in that value. I see this getting worse before it gets better.

[QUOTE=senorlaverga;14705991]the value of cards is only validated by people’s faith in that value. I see this getting worse before it gets better.[/QUOTE]

Spot on. This is not going away.

[QUOTE=boston12;14705886]Whether you collect graded or not this is not good for the hobby.[B] Raw cards floating out there are the rejects that didn’t get trimmed correctly[/B].[/QUOTE]

Not true, plenty of people don't grade and don't trim.

[QUOTE=chezball;14706060]Not true, plenty of people don't grade and don't trim.[/QUOTE]

I do not think boston12 meant all raw cards are trimmed rejects. He was correct to note that trimmed rejects get mixed into raw cards sold.

FWIW. I believe I had a transaction with DMarcus back in 2017-16. PayPal won’t let me go back that far to confirm but the PP ID was for a Papa Roni’s Pizzeria. I remember because he was based out of Pavilion NY which is outside of Buffalo where I’m originally from. Just extra info incase it may be of use to anyone.

Also REALLY makes me wish I had held on to the two McDavid FWAs I pulled myself that graded PSA 10s. May have to keep an eye out for those cert numbers.

[QUOTE=LOTSOS;14706208]FWIW. I believe I had a transaction with DMarcus back in 2017-16. PayPal won’t let me go back that far to confirm but the PP ID was for a Papa Roni’s Pizzeria. I remember because he was based out of Pavilion NY which is outside of Buffalo where I’m originally from. Just extra info incase it may be of use to anyone.[/QUOTE]

Yeah he owns a pizza and ice cream shop.

[QUOTE=JMANIA;14706139]I do not think boston12 meant all raw cards are trimmed rejects. He was correct to note that trimmed rejects get mixed into raw cards sold.[/QUOTE]

Correct

Can you imagine how much this is the tip of the iceberg. I'll be at the National again this year and I'm just going to assume high grade cards as tampered with AF unless I have proof positive otherwise. Actually, I'd rather have a raw card now that I can match up against my own exemplar to see if the dimensions are perfect. To pay a premium for this garbage is unconscionable.

Have you guys ever put recent SP Authentic in row boxes? They are cut to PRECISE dimensions. If you run your finger along a row of 100 card as you form a brick, it feels completely smooth. There is no variance in size whatsoever outside of the rarest exceptions.

We are going to need a 4th party grading company to audit PSA and BGS' calls now.

This is unbelievably good research by the OP. And this is just the stuff he pulled up as readily available on the internet. Can you imagine the % of cards in a high grade for which we don't have any photographic evidence of tampering?

OP, if you had to handicap what percentage of all PSA 9s and 10s and BGS 9.5s and 10s were doctored, what do you think it is?

[QUOTE=RiceBondsMT2Yng;14706318]
OP, if you had to handicap what percentage of all PSA 9s and 10s and BGS 9.5s and 10s were doctored, what do you think it is?[/QUOTE]

I believe the majority of graded modern cards sold via PWCC for the first time are altered. I believe a nontrivial number of this same subset that sold via Probstein are altered. This encompasses the vast majority of trimmed cards passing through the market today.

Therefore, it depends of the market share of PWCC and Probstein. That's the driving factor.

[QUOTE=RiceBondsMT2Yng;14706318]

Have you guys ever put recent SP Authentic in row boxes? They are cut to PRECISE dimensions. If you run your finger along a row of 100 card as you form a brick, it feels completely smooth. There is no variance in size whatsoever outside of the rarest exceptions.[/QUOTE]

My McDavid SPA future watch is large wont fit in a one touch. So this is not true. And I would assume that means another is short because of this.

Just dropping a note that I received a message from one of my most trusted sources. Longtime dealer. He confirms that dmarcus8 is close friends with Block, but he said he can vouch for him personally and nobody believes dmarcus8 is involved in Block's operation.

I do trust this source, as he's given me some leads behind the scenes. I do not personally know dmarcus8 and can't speak to his character. This source has helped what I do quite a bit, so I am willing to pass along his message to the board.

[QUOTE=3124508 on COMC;14706425]I believe the majority of graded modern cards sold via PWCC for the first time are altered. I believe a nontrivial number of this same subset that sold via Probstein are altered. This encompasses the vast majority of trimmed cards passing through the market today.

Therefore, it depends of the market share of PWCC and Probstein. That's the driving factor.[/QUOTE]

For purposes of this estimate, how are you defining modern? And are you including ALL cards or just those over a certain value?

[QUOTE=superdan49;14706434]Just dropping a note that I received a message from one of my most trusted sources. Longtime dealer. He confirms that dmarcus8 is close friends with Block, but he said he can vouch for him personally and nobody believes dmarcus8 is involved in Block's operation.

I do trust this source, as he's given me some leads behind the scenes. I do not personally know dmarcus8 and can't speak to his character. This source has helped what I do quite a bit, so I am willing to pass along his message to the board.[/QUOTE]

David Cook – aka; dmarcus8 (< eBay ID) – Purchased $300 card on eBay from Shaun Cates. PO never did final scan when delivering card and 4 weeks later, David contacts saying he never received the card and files claim. Shaun contacted PO and they said it was delivered to his pizza shop, but never scanned (6/17/18 – Shaun Cates – SSE). Tried to rip off Justin Walsh. Sent him wrong package of junk cards and initially claimed he’d shipped him wrong package. When claim was filed, he then claimed it was the Judge auto he’d purchased. (6/18/18 – Justin Walsh – SSE). From: Pavilion, NY. [url]https://www.facebook.com/david.cook.35380[/url]

There's more:

[url]http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58047&sid=0a6504fbee77aa9a2be8f89bf02bb73b[/url]

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=471116[/url]

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=730306[/url]

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=31103[/url]



So, I stand behind saying that he seems to be in the middle of many scams.

[QUOTE=pspa123;14706440]For purposes of this estimate, how are you defining modern? And are you including ALL cards or just those over a certain value?[/QUOTE]

1. There is no clear cutoff point because you can't really prove anything before 1998 or so and these subs, especially the Burge ones, have lots and lots of cards that are before '98. Many that are high dollar due to their grade only.

2. Doesn't matter that much I don't think. I guess we can say that it is a majority on a monetary basis, although that may up the percentage.

[QUOTE=boston12;14706431]My McDavid SPA future watch is large wont fit in a one touch. So this is not true. And I would assume that means another is short because of this.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. My Panarin from the same year is also too large for a magnetic. That was the rare exception I was thinking about. I'm going to take all my 09-10 FWAs and put them in a box to see. I can tell you that 07-08, 08-09, 09-10, and 10-11 SPAs are uniform from the boxes I cracked, but that's base and common inserts.

But I have never taken a full set of FWAs and put them in a box so I'll let you know what happens with the 09-10.

[QUOTE=superdan49;14706434]Just dropping a note that I received a message from one of my most trusted sources. Longtime dealer. He confirms that dmarcus8 is close friends with Block, but he said he can vouch for him personally and nobody believes dmarcus8 is involved in Block's operation.

I do trust this source, as he's given me some leads behind the scenes. I do not personally know dmarcus8 and can't speak to his character. This source has helped what I do quite a bit, so I am willing to pass along his message to the board.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that. Is there a centralized place where we can find a list of: 1) pervasive scammers, 2) proven scammers, 3) suspected scammers, 4) those linked heavily to scams but no smoking gun yet; and, 5) those linked by association to scammers but who in your expert opinion are probably ok?

I have some friends I'm going with to the National and if there isn't a list, I'll just run a search of the many threads you've started and the OP has started to try to get a rough picture going in.

You guys should start your own 4th party grading company. I don't know how steep the barrier to entry is, but you and the OP's cred are above reproach and in this awful time, it would really help to have a company who does their homework. I was always a skeptic of grading. I always knew this stuff had to be rampant. But these threads have left me shaken. It's systemic. I know it's an extreme reaction, but this is a hobby I care a lot about.

There needs to be a watchdog. If you can put a gold star on a card as 1) definitely not tampered with; or 2) most likely not tampered with, that would go a looooong way. These trimmers are leaving these card dimensions so short, I'm just disgusted by the carelessness of these TPGs. Disgusted.

[QUOTE=boston12;14706431]My McDavid SPA future watch is large wont fit in a one touch. So this is not true. And I would assume that means another is short because of this.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for the triple post. There's so much misinformation out there, I don't want to make it worse. @boston12, you're right. I compared my 09-10 FWA set against stuff pulled from 2017-18 OPC Premier and 2018 Topps Series 2 all stacked together to see if there's any variance in dimension.

The RC set gathered through trades that obviously came from mostly different hobby boxes is by far the most choppy. That means there is indeed space for trimmers to cover their tracks pretty well in some cases. The video is here (click below):

[B][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u4hH9K-3ds]09-10 SP Authentic FWAs stacked up to see if card dimensions are perfectly uniform[/url][/B]

[QUOTE=3124508 on COMC;14706482]David Cook – aka; dmarcus8 (< eBay ID) – Purchased $300 card on eBay from Shaun Cates. PO never did final scan when delivering card and 4 weeks later, David contacts saying he never received the card and files claim. Shaun contacted PO and they said it was delivered to his pizza shop, but never scanned (6/17/18 – Shaun Cates – SSE). Tried to rip off Justin Walsh. Sent him wrong package of junk cards and initially claimed he’d shipped him wrong package. When claim was filed, he then claimed it was the Judge auto he’d purchased. (6/18/18 – Justin Walsh – SSE). From: Pavilion, NY. [url]https://www.facebook.com/david.cook.35380[/url]

There's more:

[url]http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58047&sid=0a6504fbee77aa9a2be8f89bf02bb73b[/url]

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=471116[/url]

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=730306[/url]

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=31103[/url]



So, I stand behind saying that he seems to be in the middle of many scams.[/QUOTE]
Wow. Same thing happened to me with this guy 2-3 years ago. $300 card (MacKinnon ice /99) no final scan. He said he never got it.

So you're saying the 50 McDavid SPA RC's I own and are all cased are questionable?

AWESOME!

[QUOTE=NeedChapmans;14711160]So you're saying the 50 McDavid SPA RC's I own and are all cased are questionable?

AWESOME![/QUOTE]


Yeah, questionable is an understatement if you own 50! Odds are good % are trimmed if this is a card they targeted for years presumably

[QUOTE=NeedChapmans;14711160]So you're saying the 50 McDavid SPA RC's I own and are all cased are questionable?

AWESOME![/QUOTE]

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

[QUOTE=NeedChapmans;14711160]So you're saying the 50 McDavid SPA RC's I own and are all cased are questionable?

AWESOME![/QUOTE]

Jesus. You own 5% of his future watch rookies?

[QUOTE=3124508 on COMC;14706482]David Cook – aka; dmarcus8 (< eBay ID) – From: Pavilion, NY. [url]https://www.facebook.com/david.cook.35380[/url]
[/QUOTE]My head is spinning from all of the information coming out and it takes almost all day to catch up when busy during a holiday.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that David Cook was in Boca Raton, FL earlier this month per his Facebook. I screenshot it in case it ever gets removed like Robert Block's Facebook. This is where Robert lives and the restaurant David went to are in the same town and is literally down the street, a 1/4 mile from his house.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2g4x6n1][img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47954060062_0dbaef2b70_z.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2g4x6n1]dmarcus8[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/87208428@N03/]Bowman1951[/url], on Flickr

[QUOTE=NeedChapmans;14711160]So you're saying the 50 McDavid SPA RC's I own and are all cased are questionable?

AWESOME![/QUOTE]

Fun fact. You sold Robert Block 60 BGS 9.5 Lebron Chrome rookies and 10 BGS 9.5 Lebron Chrome Refractor Rookies. I assure you that any 10s or Black Labels that PWCC has sold between then and now are your previous 9.5s.

How many do you own in this thread? Has to be some. Start talking to PWCC while you still can.

How would someone trim such a infinitesimal amount off a card? I don't see how it is mechanically possible. I could see someone using a blue or grey marker and swiping the edge to make the white spots disappear though.

Ugg..this is so upsetting. These cards were so hard to gem and now this loser has tainted the population of high grade McDavid SPA's. I have a 9.5/10 that I pack pulled and subbed myself...and I'm proud to say the edges are a 9. Most seem to come out packs with 9 edges.

I just don't understand how he keeps getting these trimmed cards past BGS and PSA. How do they measure to the proper size...or are BGS/PSA not measuring these cards during grading?

[QUOTE=Davis;14733276]Ugg..this is so upsetting. These cards were so hard to gem and now this loser has tainted the population of high grade McDavid SPA's. I have a 9.5/10 that I pack pulled and subbed myself...and I'm proud to say the edges are a 9. Most seem to come out packs with 9 edges.

I just don't understand how he keeps getting these trimmed cards past BGS and PSA. How do they measure to the proper size...or are BGS/PSA not measuring these cards during grading?[/QUOTE]

My money is on they are not measuring the vast majority of cards coming through. The graders aren't looking at these cards more than 30-45 seconds. That time includes taking them in/out of the holder and writing down the grade. It is all about getting thousands of cards out the door.

[QUOTE=Scottish Punk;14733310]My money is on they are not measuring the vast majority of cards coming through. The graders aren't looking at these cards more than 30-45 seconds. That time includes taking them in/out of the holder and writing down the grade. It is all about getting thousands of cards out the door.[/QUOTE]

This is going to come back in a bad way to all of the “reputable” grading firms out there. Their MAIN SERVICE is to ACCURATELY EVALUATE a card’s true condition. Greed has turned these shops into volume businesses, and the quality of their work has consequently suffered.

Given that card trimming is not exactly a new technique, it is absolutely BAFFLING that these grading companies don’t already check for the possibility of card alterations in this manner.

Short term, as more and more of these stories of mass doctoring of cards in order to achieve Gem 10 gradings, this has the potential to be very very damaging to the hobby especially if a collector/investor can’t trust the product they are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on to be legitimate.

Long term, this sort of fraud will eventually self-correct. Perhaps a new company will emerge with better and tighter quality controls/standards, and people will (rightfully) abandon all of the current grading firms. And hopefully this new company will also work with current card manufacturers to ensure that game used materials are also not tampered with (original images of cards with serialization of each insert, etc.).

Side thought — does this add a small premium for unopened product, since people may no longer trust buying cards second-hand through eBay or some other venue, as, for example, any McDavid Young Guns pulled fresh from a pack haven’t been tampered with yet?

"This is going to come back in a bad way to all of the “reputable” grading firms out there"

Ummm There are none.....do you know of any. They know the cards are fake/trimmed yet they ignore it.

I think he's referring to other grading companies like KSA and MNT Grading. I don't know if there are any other grading companies out there, not too familiar with that market too much. Could be a lot more 'little guys' out there that I'm not aware of.

Though this could be an opportunity for those other grading companies to make a legit name for themselves in the grading card market.

[QUOTE=rrk100;14753798]
Side thought — does this add a small premium for unopened product, since people may no longer trust buying cards second-hand through eBay or some other venue, as, for example, any McDavid Young Guns pulled fresh from a pack haven’t been tampered with yet?[/QUOTE]

I have been looking for a good excuse to start busting wax again.

This is as good as any. I busted 4 football boxes last week. Did good too.

Payday is coming up:)!:D:flex:

[QUOTE=mooneyes;14730270]How would someone trim such a infinitesimal amount off a card? I don't see how it is mechanically possible. I could see someone using a blue or grey marker and swiping the edge to make the white spots disappear though.[/QUOTE]

This is my question as well. What the heck process is being used to shave a small amount and make it even? How would the average collector even know what to look for to see if this happened to their cards?

As far as card companies measuring the cards they grade or whatever, my understanding is they do at least some measuring but they have a certain allowance range because even cards right off the factory floor aren't always cut to 100% perfect dimensions. These scammers supposedly have the gear to shave unfathomably tiny amounts off the edge of a card and probably have it down to such a science now that they know how much they can get away with. So unless the card is way off spec and they can somehow prove it has been trimmed I'm not sure there's much else the companies can do about it.

[QUOTE=Biohazarddfl;15784546]This is my question as well. What the heck process is being used to shave a small amount and make it even? How would the average collector even know what to look for to see if this happened to their cards?[/QUOTE]

There are cutting machines that can be set to trim as little as 1/1000th of an inch. If you know what you are doing and have access to these cutters it is very easy to micro trim.

They are not using hand lever paper cutters.

I can't find a single person on Twitter that can explain to me why modern cards have such a premium for grades when most cards should come out mint or close to it from the pack.

Since most companies use sticker autographs there should be very little handling of the cards in general. This isn't a Mantle rookie that was played with and sat in a box for 40 years before it was sent to BGS. This is a Matthews rookie that went from a pack to BGS. The premium for a 10 vs 9.5 is crazy considering. And that doesn't even take into consideration the trimming and scams that get uncovered here daily.

The reality is that you really can’t know if a PSA graded card has been tampered with anymore and you basically take a chance if you’re spending thousands of dollars on a graded card.

I haven’t heard anything about the FBI investigation as of late but I really hope the hobby can be cleaned up and these scammers will go to prison or go bankrupt. Having said that, I’m not wasting my money on graded cards so it really doesn’t affect me personally. Unfortunately the hobby is negatively affected yet again.


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[QUOTE=CB Nostalgia;15810133]I can't find a single person on Twitter that can explain to me why modern cards have such a premium for grades when most cards should come out mint or close to it from the pack.

Since most companies use sticker autographs there should be very little handling of the cards in general. This isn't a Mantle rookie that was played with and sat in a box for 40 years before it was sent to BGS. This is a Matthews rookie that went from a pack to BGS. The premium for a 10 vs 9.5 is crazy considering. And that doesn't even take into consideration the trimming and scams that get uncovered here daily.[/QUOTE]

Buying/Selling over the internet provided relevance to the grading companies for many people and over time established the norm. The need to have the best is important to some people. Unfortunately time has also revealed the system is far from perfect.

[QUOTE=larsfrommars;15810416]The reality is that you really can’t know if a PSA graded card has been tampered with anymore and you basically take a chance if you’re spending thousands of dollars on a graded card.

I haven’t heard anything about the FBI investigation as of late but I really hope the hobby can be cleaned up and these scammers will go to prison or go bankrupt. Having said that, I’m not wasting my money on graded cards so it really doesn’t affect me personally. Unfortunately the hobby is negatively affected yet again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Every sportscard transaction has some risk, graded or not. While the grading companies like to market their prowess and buyers deserve assurances, the reality is the system has problems that are exploited by scammers. It would certainly help the situation if the TPG's would speak on the issues.

Remember that shill bidding also occurs and guys have been caught and prosecuted in the past. Who knows what the real value of some of these cards is!


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Consecutive Run of 13 Trimmed BGS 9.5 McDavid SPAs- Sold by Robert Block via PWCC
 

All these altered cards and over 4,000 more are now organized by sport and then last name. You can also search for a specific serial number. Check it out [url]https://www.AlteredCardDatabase.com[/url]

This thread needs to be stickied given how prominent the cards in this thread have become in hobby.

Legit check on the SPA in PWCC's February Premier?

[url]https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/premier-auction/7166[/url]

Hi all - just wanted to bump this old thread to make sure people are aware. Someone on one of the hockey card facebook groups posted yesterday about how they're buying a 9.5 Mcdavid FWA and it turned out to be one from the list of known trimmed cards. Be careful out there!

[QUOTE=Davis;17710285]This thread needs to be stickied given how prominent the cards in this thread have become in hobby.[/QUOTE]

Some companies and people in the hobby don't want the ugly underbelly of the hobby to become common knowledge. Keeping this information tucked away is a form of gatekeeping. Thankfully Blowout isn't just deleting content like this outright (there's also a few recent Gretzky rookie threads), but I doubt they want all the warts/issues in the hobby front and center either.

A collectible market where the integrity of some of the more sought out collectibles is called into question can turn some people away. Instead of confronting the issue head-on, sticking the head in the sand is often the human default. Truth doesn't bend because it's inconvenient, but reality can be distorted if information is withheld.