Why I would avoid Mantle and buy Jackie

[Grimster]

wow this thread is still going?

"Jackie is better! His cards are better than Mantle!"

"nu uh!"

"Ya, huh!"

rinse...repeat...

bad troll is bad

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by NickM

This thread doesn't have legs. You just refuse to accept anything that doesn't fit into your image.

You're saying baseball is declining as a sport.
That's true.
It's also of absolutely no help to your argument, but since logic isn't part of your argument, you'll never recognize that.
Football or basketball passing baseball is a reason supporting an argument to buy Namath or Wilt, or Brady or Jordan, rather than Mantle. It's not a reason supporting an argument to buy another expensive baseball player from the same era over Mantle.

Oh yeah, and as for this:
Walk a National (been to 4- the last 2 in both Baltimore and Cleveland) and count how many Micks you see vs how many Jackies you see, and then try to trade a PSA 5 Mick for a PSA 5 Jackie. I have done this. The dealers will laugh at you.


I call BS.

Name one dealer at any of those 4 Nationals who turned you down when you tried to trade him a PSA 5 Mantle for a PSA 5 Jackie Robinson from the same set.

Well said. I don't really get this thread. Hard to tell if the OP is being serious, or just trying to get everyone riled up by making a ridiculous argument.

Mantle is the most popular player from his era, and was the best player on the best team. This is not going to change. His 52 topps card is the most iconic and we'll known card in the hobby, aside from the Wagner which will never be accessible to most collectors. Even my friends who don't collect have heard of a 52 Mantle.

I own a 48 Leaf Robinson, and it's a cool card, but it will never be as popular as even a 53 Topps Mantle, let alone the 51 or 52. And no one would turn down a trade of a Mantle for their Robinson from the same set in the same grade. We're you trying to trade a 66 Mantle for a 52 Robinson? That they would turn down.

And as for the vintage section of this forum not being popular, blowout is known as being geared towards modern cards. Stop by Net54 and ask some of the guys which player is better to invest in. They'll probably tell you to collect what you like, but if you're looking for the most upside in 10, 20, or 30 years Mantle is the way to go.

[boadster]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Well said. I don't really get this thread. Hard to tell if the OP is being serious, or just trying to get everyone riled up by making a ridiculous argument.

Mantle is the most popular player from his era, and was the best player on the best team. This is not going to change. His 52 topps card is the most iconic and we'll known card in the hobby, aside from the Wagner which will never be accessible to most collectors. Even my friends who don't collect have heard of a 52 Mantle.

I own a 48 Leaf Robinson, and it's a cool card, but it will never be as popular as even a 53 Topps Mantle, let alone the 51 or 52. And no one would turn down a trade of a Mantle for their Robinson from the same set in the same grade. We're you trying to trade a 66 Mantle for a 52 Robinson? That they would turn down.

And as for the vintage section of this forum not being popular, blowout is known as being geared towards modern cards. Stop by Net54 and ask some of the guys which player is better to invest in. They'll probably tell you to collect what you like, but if you're looking for the most upside in 10, 20, or 30 years Mantle is the way to go.

Then by all means, keep buying.

To NickM, you are right in the way it was written. I would offer a graded regular issue Mick from the later yrs- with a higher SMR, to try and get a similarily graded 53 -56 Jackie. I always offered more than what I got back, by about 25-30%, because you know you have to. I still got rebuffed,
There are at LEAST 50 Mantles for every Jackie you see at one of those. I wonder if any of you who vehemently disagree with me would at LEAST acknowledge that. Go try Levi Bleam, that irritating whackadoo with his Abe Lincoln hat, and see what he does..The only dealers I know by name are he and Bill Henderson. Bill was a nice guy, but he burned me on a couple of deals. Didn't realize what he was doing at first- live and learn..

What you find out, after buying all of these PSA 5 and 6 Mantles that you thought were these great things, when it comes time to trade up, or work to upgrade, that the dealers all of the sudden aren't so hot on them as they were when you bought them. But, I thought Mantle was the pinnacle, the crowing jewel...Turns out, that aint exactly true....

PokerPlyr, you mentioned the 1st 3 cards of Mantle, and yes, those are different, but yes or no, do you feel that way about ALL Mick cards, or just those 3? Is there or is there not a BIG difference in which ones you get? Any dealer will take those 3. Talk about 60's Mantles...

I am going to stop replying. Unless you are buying high grade, or early Mantles, I personally think you are a sucker. Sorry, but I was once on the other side of the argument, but am where I am now..There was a guy on the thread about passing onto your kids- where this once also started, who mentioned 1958 AS cards. He does (?) realize that some of those were DP, and there is a reason the prices are much lower on these. I suppose the thread on avoiding peripheral cards are sticking with the regular issue cards hasn't been posted in a while...Good luck to all, but some of you need more than luck...

[GC1980]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

And as for the vintage section of this forum not being popular, blowout is known as being geared towards modern cards. Stop by Net54 and ask some of the guys which player is better to invest in. They'll probably tell you to collect what you like, but if you're looking for the most upside in 10, 20, or 30 years Mantle is the way to go.

I would love to see this thread started on net54 and see the responses.

[pokerplyr80]

60s Mantles are readily available in low to mid grades as are all other 60s cards. They only cost a few hundred bucks or less, and aren't really investment type cards. That's a given. No one is going to retire off of a few 63 Rose or 68 Ryan PSA 5 or 6 cards either. There also isn't much upside on a PSA 5 55 topps Robinson. If you're buying 8s and up of the 60s Mantles and holding them long term you will do fine. Better than with Jackie's cards I'm quite sure.

This thread wasn't titled PSA 5 60s Mantles are not good investments. That's just common sense. As is the fact that Mantle is and probably always will be the player to collect from the 50s and 60s if you want to maximize long term investment potential in any grade.

[pokerplyr80]

I'm pretty happy with my Mantle collection so far, and will continue to buy Mantles. Good luck with your Robinson cards.

[Firerunner4]

This thread is about as terrible as OP's iTrader

I would love to respond but there is no chance of talking sense into his head

Holy hell

[Bibitte2]

You really think card 311 would sell so high If so many cards did'nt get drowned....that's The real hipe behind Mantle cards....The proof, The real rookie....1951 sell's for less...

Its only A mather of short print...

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Bibitte2

You really think card 311 would sell so high If so many cards did'nt get drowned....that's The real hipe behind Mantle cards....The proof, The real rookie....1951 sell's for less...

Its only A mather of short print...

Who is card number 312? Why doesn't he sell for anywhere near what 311 does? They have the same print run.

[guru]

I have been buying lower graded Mantle cards for the past 5 years or so.

They have only gone up.

I guess I have made a bad long term investment according to this...

Oh well, in the short term, it has looked like a really good investment.

PSA 1-6 Mantles have nearly doubled in the market place from 5 years ago. I'm not sure why, I guess the demand is high and the ... (economics is hard)

[Bibitte2]

How Canada you compare card 311 with 312.....c'mon now...apples with apples...

Mickey MANTLE's contract is expected to sell around 1 million dollars at auction compare to Jackie Robinson estimated value at 36 million would fetch more than 10 million at auction....

A copy of The 1948 first print of My own story by Jackie Robinson (autographed) just sold for 8k at auction.....MANTLE books sells for 600.00$ at The same auction house !!!!

Now If Robinson's rookie card was A short print, believe me, it would be The one you would chase....but The gap is closing in...

In 5 years, it Will be 75 mark for Jackie's story and like any important collectibles, sky high is what's going to happen then....just like it did when The went 25 years after The 1972 summit series...i sold Montreal ticket at 1200.00$ each....5 year early, i could not get 250.00$ for them...

Now that The Robinson contract as surfaced and is on A tour, this Will make Robinson stuff sell like hot cakes....The reason i am keeping The 1948 Robinson together as A group...

[Bibitte2]

Please dont compare 311 with 312.....compare apples with apples....

The next Mantle contract is set to reach 1 million at auction....Robinson's contract 36 million.....take card 311 of The chart, compare all other cards, The value is very similar....If Jackie Robinson's rookie was A short print, you would be chasing it....

A 1948 copy of My own Story from Robinson just sold for 8k at auction, The same auction house sells autographed books of MANTLE for 600.00$.....

I sold A yankees original MANTLE/Mize/Reynolds printing Plate for 250.00$.....The Ruth sold for 600.00 and The Robinson (should have kept) for 600.00$


.

[sbfinley]

I've been watching this trainwreck of thread from afar, but since I have a day off what the heck...

Originally Posted by boadster

. To the young guy looking at putting something together for his sons, as I have, I would say that Mickey should not be in the collection.

This is horrible advice. There is really no way around it and shows a complete lack of understanding of the vintage market. You want to argue the viability of sports collectibles as long term investments, sure.. fair debate. But this statement, in the context in which you have provided is horrible.. horrible... advice.

Originally Posted by boadster

To you big money players out there, go spend a grand and buy a Robert Downey Jr Iron Man Autograph card- there are 2 versions, but a total of less than 500 made, and then go to a show with that and a similarly priced Mantle. Now, try to find 10 kids- it'll be difficult, but wing it. Now walk up to each and ask which one they would rather own, and let me know the results..

This. I don't even know what this is. Why are kids so difficult to find? Are they all in the hunger games? I'm sure if I offered 10 kids the option of a Star Wars themed Casio or a Rolex - 9 out of 10 would take the Yoda themed time piece and the 10th would kick me in the shin and steal both. Why the preferences of eleven year old's would steer the direction of high dollar vintage cards is beyond my comprehension.

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

Looking at careers and overall popularity, I do think Mantle wins out in both categories. Sure, Robinson broke the color barrier (which was fantastic, props to him), but I still think Mantle will continue to have the overall appeal to collectors. Besides, Robinson didn't have the best of careers. He was a good ballplayer, but not fantastic. Personally, I find Willie Mays to be a good choice for investment. That guy could ball!

Props to him? Didn't have the best of careers? He was a fantastic ball player who excelled like no other player all the while carrying a burden no player before or after was dealt. Any slip on his part athletically, mentally, or emotionally would have dealt integration of the game a severe blow that would have taken years to recover from. He excelled and he excelled with grace all the while being taunted, goaded, and attacked. He is owed more by the game than almost anyone else in it's history.

You nailed one thing though. Mays is surprisingly underrated in the hobby.

Originally Posted by boadster

I have divested myself of 99% of my baseball collection, so it is not wishful thinking. I know that this logical, yet contrarian thinking upsets your apple cart, being as heavily invested in your boy as some of you are, but maybe its OK to stick your head out and look around every once in a while. Frankly, other than in cards, where exactly is Mantle in the public consciousness? The answer, is nowhere. He will never be a top dog. he is not Ruth, Gehrig, or DiMaggio, and many would put Berra and Jeter ahead of him. He is sliding in the record books. He has the additional curse in the hobby or having more cards in the 50's and 60's than anyone. Even some on hear say themselves that there will be less baseball collectors in the future, but magically, these cards will somehow hold their value. The rookies will. Perhaps the 56 Topps will..You honestly think that a lot of these others will? Hope for your sake they do. I don't care. At least I am willing to acknowledge that there are logical forces working against it, and I hope at least 1 guy building something for his kid reads this and thinks about it before blindly plunking down his hard earned money...Hell, Stan Musial was a helluva player. How hot is his stuff?

You asked for dialogue in your first post, and then refuse accept any educated responses from the opposing viewpoints. That's not dialogue, it's politicking.

Originally Posted by boadster

Next time you park the pickup at Walmart, walk in and look at the kids clothes. A lot of superhero stuff.
Shuffle back to the toys. An entire aisle of superhero stuff.
A whole aisle of Legos- a bunch of which is superhero- themed
Go over to the DVD's...bet a bunch of em are superhero movies.
Go over to the cereal aisle. There's each a Batman and Superman cereal right now. Hell, I bet you can go down every aisle and find something that says Civil War on it...
Now, think about a card made 1 time where only 500 were made and autographed. The actor in question has refused to sign for card companies since. I still will contend that there will be an entire generation of kids, who 30 yrs from now, will want to go back and get the stuff from their childhood. Still, you are right. 30 yrs from now the sheer volume of Mantle cards will ALL hold their value, and the tastes of the boomers will be passed down completely and successfully to the next generation, as it is in music or anything else...Silly me...

I'm still lost. My Wal-Mart puts Topps cards in the pizzas though so I guess the times they are a changin...

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

T206 Wagner is the most expensive card . Where does he rank on the all time list of players? Nowhere near mantle lol.

Ahead of Mantle...

Originally Posted by rats60

I would say exactly the opposite. As time goes on, people are forgetting about Jackie Robinson. Fewer people understand what Jackie went through. A few weeks ago, there was a thread on net54 "Why is Jackie Robinson in the Hall of Fame?"

Good god, that thread. But, no people are not forgetting about Jackie Robinson. Some people may not know yet, or care, the history of legacy, but it is not being forgotten (or marginalized) by anyone with half a sense of prospective.

Originally Posted by mfw13

If you are thinking about this question in terms of investment potential, then you have to consider the fact that Mantle prices are much much higher than Jackie prices right now.

Christ, the first sensible statement I've uncovered in this thread. If you want to argue that high-grade Mantles (or high-grade vintage) are currently at unsustainable prices then we can have a fair argument. I'd argue that they are, but I also believed they were 18 months, six months, and three months ago. And I've been wrong each time, until a correction occurs I will continue to be wrong. This is where the entire discussion when relative to long term investment potential should occur. Everything else (legacies, print runs, Robert Downey Jr for some god-forsaken reason) is immaterial and a hair short of idiotic.

Originally Posted by Psufan80

Op just doesn't get it! It was in large part due to Mickey mantle cards that the hobby became as appealing as it is today. He is the king! No one a generation from now is suddenly going to wake up and say hey remember that guy who broke the color barrier in baseball? Let's buy his cards. If race becomes a reason people invest in cards they will choose Mays, Aaron, or Clemente.

I can't tell if you're serious, if you are: God help you.

Originally Posted by kyaa

I don't own hardly any vintage, so I won't call myself an expert, but aside from the 1952 Topps Mantle which is in its own category, I'd side with the OP.

A lot of Mantle's mythology has to do with the way people who saw him play felt about him. He was the boyhood idol to many. But subsequent generations will not view him that way. Mantle wasn't the best player of all time. He wasn't the first of any type of player. His historical value is limited.

Jackie, on the other hand, will always be an icon for baseball, African Americans, and the civil rights movement. His cards can appropriately be displayed in museums.

Again, I think the 1952 Topps Mantle will always have a special place in the hobby, but if I had to bet on which player's cards would hold their value more over time I'd go with Jackie.

Slow clap for educated statement #2. The Mantle myth is at the epicenter of his popularity. He was hell of an athlete, and a damn fine ballplayer, but he was also a drunk misogamist, who cared more about chasing skirt at the Coca-Cobana then protecting his body. His career stats are actually staggering considering he played half his career at 50%-60% of his body's capacity. What he was, more importantly however, was a white country boy who made good as the heir to DiMaggio's throne in center field of Yankee Stadium. In post war boom following World War 2 this was the job to have in America, and Mantle (despite all his faults) took it and excelled. He was the boyhood idol to many, however this does not mean his popularity will wane with subsequent generations. For while those mused him as children will pass he will still be the idol of someone's father, grandfather, uncle, mother, or whomever. And when those people pass, he will still remain one of the most important stories in a game than embraces and celebrates its history more than any other in the world. Mantle's popularity will fade no more than Gehrig's, DiMaggio's, The Kid's, or Jackie's. As long as a ball has 108 stitches and the bases are 90 feet Mantle will be a legend.

Originally Posted by Bibitte2

How Canada you compare card 311 with 312.....c'mon now...apples with apples...

Every. Single. Thing. You compared in the previous two posts following this statement is apples to mutated Kiwis.



Guys (and gals) happy collecting.

Steven Finley

[CxG Voodoo Doll]

Originally Posted by Bibitte2

How Canada you compare card 311 with 312.....c'mon now...apples with apples...

Mickey MANTLE's contract is expected to sell around 1 million dollars at auction compare to Jackie Robinson estimated value at 36 million would fetch more than 10 million at auction....

A copy of The 1948 first print of My own story by Jackie Robinson (autographed) just sold for 8k at auction.....MANTLE books sells for 600.00$ at The same auction house !!!!

Now If Robinson's rookie card was A short print, believe me, it would be The one you would chase....but The gap is closing in...

In 5 years, it Will be 75 mark for Jackie's story and like any important collectibles, sky high is what's going to happen then....just like it did when The went 25 years after The 1972 summit series...i sold Montreal ticket at 1200.00$ each....5 year early, i could not get 250.00$ for them...

Now that The Robinson contract as surfaced and is on A tour, this Will make Robinson stuff sell like hot cakes....The reason i am keeping The 1948 Robinson together as A group...

Of course Jackie's contract will sell for way more than Mantle. He was the first black player...

Mantle also signed WAY more than Jackie, so yes, Jackie autos will sell for more...

There's just more Mantle to go around more than Jackie. Still, I would put my money into Mantle cards before Jackie. Certain Mantle autos can rival just about anyone else in the hobby too.

[Bibitte2]

Sbfinley.......

Instead of giving your opinion of other users opinion...why not just give your opinion on The subject....lol

[boadster]

Originally Posted by Bibitte2

Sbfinley.......

Instead of giving your opinion of other users opinion...why not just give your opinion on The subject....lol

According to his feedback, he is proficient at selling Magic the Gathering cards...I appreciate such a big brain stepping into the primordial ooze....

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Bibitte2

Sbfinley.......

Instead of giving your opinion of other users opinion...why not just give your opinion on The subject....lol

I figured my opinion was obvious from my statements. In terms in of demand, liquidity, and historical significance neither is more desirable than the other. As long as the market continues trend up both will rise as well. I don't know how you could argue otherwise unless you're just guessing for giggles or know nothing about the history of the market and the game. The only important question relative to investment is when the market as a whole will correct and when the next rise comes can it reach the same peaks.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by boadster

According to his feedback, he is proficient at selling Magic the Gathering cards...I appreciate such a big brain stepping into the primordial ooze....

If selling two recently is proficient, sure I'll take that complement. Why not.

[boadster]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

If selling two recently is proficient, sure I'll take that complement. Why not.

You get sarcasm worse than Danny Tartabull hits a curveball...

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by boadster

You get sarcasm worse than Danny Tartabull hits a curveball...

Sounds good chief. Happy Collecting.

[fulltritty]

I just picked up my 5th Mantle card last night. A 1961 Topps 565 FT. Home Run #406 Mickey Mantle PSA 6 EX-MT.

[fulltritty]

To maximize the E-bay bucks offer, I picked up a 1965 Topps Mantle PSA 5 last night; by far the most expensive card I have purchased. That makes 6 Mantle cards for me.