2018 AL MVP- who's your pick

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by tke1600

But what could I possibly be overlooking in this case? The main offense stats aren't really close and Mookie is not a bad defender. So playing in different parks now is a big factor?

Originally Posted by Ottomatic

It's not as simple as saying a guy is not a bad defender. A guy can be very good and another guy could be elite. Could be the difference between multiple wins a year for that team. Can't just stop at oh ok, both of these guys are good so that cancels out. How good? Best to try to quantify it. And park is a huge deal especially when we talk about Fenway which is one of the easiest parks to hit in.

Mike Trout has never been a good center fielder; and isn't considered one this year either. Mookie Betts has won back to back gold gloves in right field, and for WAR purposes, has had terrific defensive metrics across the board.

Not this year of course. This year, for some reason, WAR has Mookie has a below average right fielder. Someone can attempt to quantify this for me; but watching him every night, I've yet to see a play where I said "Mookie should have had that" and plenty of "Wow, can't believe he got that".

WAR sucks.

[kyle1707]

Originally Posted by griffan15

I have a feeling JD is just getting started. Does .315/50HR/130RBI get him the MVP?

If everyone stays healthy it will be a crazy race

Much more then the boring NL

A yankee will be involved. Not sure who yet
Jd
Machado numbers could be insane unless he goes to NL
Trout
Betts
Altuve Correa or both will really get going

[purejd86p]

Originally Posted by SirTommyWinAlot

Doesn't matter. The white man baseball media will just point out that Betts is one of many good hitters on the Red Sox and that Trout is the only player that makes the Angels good. They'll also say hey, he's leading the league in WAR and he had the best season in MLB history!

Just call it the WAR award and be done with it.

[SirTommyWinAlot]

Originally Posted by purejd86p

Someone hacked into my account. It happens to the best of us.

[Ottomatic]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Mike Trout has never been a good center fielder; and isn't considered one this year either. Mookie Betts has won back to back gold gloves in right field, and for WAR purposes, has had terrific defensive metrics across the board.

Not this year of course. This year, for some reason, WAR has Mookie has a below average right fielder. Someone can attempt to quantify this for me; but watching him every night, I've yet to see a play where I said "Mookie should have had that" and plenty of "Wow, can't believe he got that".

WAR sucks.

Eye test is just as unreliable, probably worse. Regardless, I haven't even looked at the defensive numbers this year for these two, I'm just saying it matters in general. Not as simple as saying theyre both good so it cancels out, thats all I'm saying. Positional adjustment also obviously matters here and park remains a huge deal.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by Ottomatic

Eye test is just as unreliable, probably worse. Regardless, I haven't even looked at the defensive numbers this year for these two, I'm just saying it matters in general. Not as simple as saying theyre both good so it cancels out, thats all I'm saying. Positional adjustment also obviously matters here and park remains a huge deal.

I'm not saying they're both good. I'm saying Trout is bad, and Mookie is the best RF in the AL.

So Betts is better in just about every quantifiable way. If someone with a tin foil hat wants to tell me frigid Boston has been much easier to hit in than warm LA ... and that single reason is why Trout has a higher WAR, then I bet they can't do it with a straight face.

[caflisch78]

You can't name an MVP after 41 games, i'll vote after 150 or so, much less debate once we are working with real numbers.

[caflisch78]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I'm not saying they're both good. I'm saying Trout is bad, and Mookie is the best RF in the AL.

So Betts is better in just about every quantifiable way. If someone with a tin foil hat wants to tell me frigid Boston has been much easier to hit in than warm LA ... and that single reason is why Trout has a higher WAR, then I bet they can't do it with a straight face.

Trout career fielding % .993

Betts career fielding % .989


Trout is bad....

[Ottomatic]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I'm not saying they're both good. I'm saying Trout is bad, and Mookie is the best RF in the AL.

So Betts is better in just about every quantifiable way. If someone with a tin foil hat wants to tell me frigid Boston has been much easier to hit in than warm LA ... and that single reason is why Trout has a higher WAR, then I bet they can't do it with a straight face.

I picked Betts. I'm just saying it's not some huge gap. I didn't even look at WAR when I made my pick, I'm just saying defense and park matters, obviously voters agree, this is why Trout won it the other year against Mookie.

Saying Trout is bad in CF is a bad take. Average maybe, but never bad, not even close. Also yes frigid Boston is way easier to hit. They are hitting 290 there as a team. Place has been Coors east for a while now.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by caflisch78

Trout career fielding % .993

Betts career fielding % .989


Trout is bad....

HAHAHAHAHA.

Lindor leads the league is errors from SS. Guess he's the worst SS in the game, I had no idea.

[seabass97166]

Of course Fenway is a bandbox made for stat stuffers.

You can also say Trout faces better pitching, if you remove guys on their own team - Trout faces 10 of the top 20 ERA guys in the AL West and Mookie faces 2 in AL East. Yeah that's really neither here nor there but when you face Houston all the time it does come into play.

Also AL East hitter parks: Balt/Toronto/NYY/Boston just made for offense. While Oakland has a ton of foul territory, Seattle is obviously a pitcher's park

Mookie better defender, yep for sure.
Trout bad CF'er? Just a ridiculous comment.

For the record, I think Mookie is the 2nd best player in MLB now...and yes the MVP as of today.
The guy is awesome in all facets


.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by caflisch78

Trout career fielding % .993

Betts career fielding % .989


Trout is bad....

Eye test, bro.

[SirTommyWinAlot]

Originally Posted by seabass97166

Of course Fenway is a bandbox made for stat stuffers.

You can also say Trout faces better pitching, if you remove guys on their own team - Trout faces 10 of the top 20 ERA guys in the AL West and Mookie faces 2 in AL East. Yeah that's really neither here nor there but when you face Houston all the time it does come into play.

Also AL East hitter parks: Balt/Toronto/NYY/Boston just made for offense. While Oakland has a ton of foul territory, Seattle is obviously a pitcher's park

Mookie better defender, yep for sure.
Trout bad CF'er? Just a ridiculous comment.

For the record, I think Mookie is the 2nd best player in MLB now...and yes the MVP as of today.
The guy is awesome in all facets


.

Also Mookie deals with alot more pressure. The Boston Media and the fans are unforgiving. The closest pressure Trout has to deal with is from the pressure built up from tectonic plates that are stuck to one another. Other than that, he's got the sun, the beach, palm trees, nonchalant media coverage...country club atmosphere in SoCal.

I actually like Trout but the crazy media and their greatest baseball season ever proclamation is making me like him less.

[21Pittsburgh58]

Voted for Lindor. Want Trout. Betts is amazing.

We’ll see how the rest of the year plays out.

[JustinVerlander07]

If a starting pitcher managed to have an ERA of 1.05(!!!) for an entire season I'd go with him at this point. I'm sure by September though it'll still be Trout.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by seabass97166

Trout bad CF'er? Just a ridiculous comment.

Am I reading this wrong?



Wasn't Mike Trout the 152nd best center-fielder last year in terms of defensive runs saved, out of 164 players who played the position? Slightly worse than Jacoby Ellsbury?

In fact, I think I misspoke earlier. Trout is not a bad center-fielder. He was the second worst CF in the AL, fourth worst in baseball. Terrible may be more apt.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Am I reading this wrong?



Wasn't Mike Trout the 152nd best center-fielder last year in terms of defensive runs saved, out of 164 players who played the position? Slightly worse than Jacoby Ellsbury?

In fact, I think I misspoke earlier. Trout is not a bad center-fielder. He was the second worst CF in the AL, fourth worst in baseball. Terrible may be more apt.

He's a +7 DRS so far this year and was +6 in 2016.

I noticed you didn't mention that.

[ThoseBackPages]

man, NC is off the rails! LOL

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

He's a +7 DRS so far this year and was +6 in 2016.

I noticed you didn't mention that.

Absolutely correct. + 7 in 2015, and negative in 2013 and 2014.

So do you know what that means? Half the time, he's a slightly above average CF in the middle tier of baseball, and half the time, he's one of the absolute worst. Bottom 5 in baseball. Put it all together and you get a center-fielder who is below average. Sometimes OK, sometimes the worst does not elevate Trout to being "good".

WAR is calculated off defensive runs saved. If Trout were a good CF, he'd be crushing WAR even harder. He isn't, so he isn't.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Absolutely correct. + 7 in 2015, and negative in 2013 and 2014.

So do you know what that means? Half the time, he's a slightly above average CF in the middle tier of baseball, and half the time, he's one of the absolute worst. Bottom 5 in baseball. Put it all together and you get a center-fielder who is below average. Sometimes OK, sometimes the worst does not elevate Trout to being "good".

WAR is calculated off defensive runs saved. If Trout were a good CF, he'd be crushing WAR even harder. He isn't, so he isn't.

He already is +7 this year dude....He's an average outfielder, and since he's a CF who rakes, he's the best.

[tke1600]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Mike Trout has never been a good center fielder; and isn't considered one this year either. Mookie Betts has won back to back gold gloves in right field, and for WAR purposes, has had terrific defensive metrics across the board.

Not this year of course. This year, for some reason, WAR has Mookie has a below average right fielder. Someone can attempt to quantify this for me; but watching him every night, I've yet to see a play where I said "Mookie should have had that" and plenty of "Wow, can't believe he got that".

WAR sucks.

That's my main point. If WAR is calculating Mookie as below average when he is winning Gold Gloves, then something is majorly wrong with WAR. There is nothing that points to Trout having a higher WAR/better season than Mookie for games played this season and any sane person would see this. Something is off and these stats splits on Trout/Mookie prove it's glaring.

[Hollywood42]

[seabass97166]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Absolutely correct. + 7 in 2015, and negative in 2013 and 2014.

So do you know what that means? Half the time, he's a slightly above average CF in the middle tier of baseball, and half the time, he's one of the absolute worst. Bottom 5 in baseball. Put it all together and you get a center-fielder who is below average. Sometimes OK, sometimes the worst does not elevate Trout to being "good".

WAR is calculated off defensive runs saved. If Trout were a good CF, he'd be crushing WAR even harder. He isn't, so he isn't.

This year his main focus on areas to improve was his defense....which quite certainly has improved this year.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

He already is +7 this year dude....He's an average outfielder, and since he's a CF who rakes, he's the best.

My argument is not about his overall abilities in CF. I concede, he's the best CF in the game. Easy.

And if you want to move him out of CF and play LF or RF, perhaps his metrics would get better. But for people to suggest that Trout is a great CF is laughable. His seasons fluctuate between good and terrible, never standing out as one of the best. As far as center fielders go, from a defensive perspective ... he's bottom tier on average.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by seabass97166

This year his main focus on areas to improve was his defense....which quite certainly has improved this year.

From terrible to exceedingly average.