Who was the better hitter? - Page 3

calculusdork · 01-02-2019, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

It appears majority mean guy most likely to get singles

Quote:

Originally Posted by no10pin

Most people (I'm assuming based on results) view a hit as a hit in this case. Single, HR, whatever. So it's not just who has the most singles, but who was most likely to get a hit.

Again, open to interpretation obviously, but I see what you are doing.

So then, do we define "hitter" by however the majority defines it, or is there an objective, absolute definition?

ToppsNowFan · 01-02-2019, 01:35 PM

You left out Rafael Santana and Bobby Meachum...

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erock28

The little things of baseball mean a great deal - hitting to the right side with a runner on second to move him to third, spraying the ball around to beat shifts, just putting it in play in general. A team of McGwire's would bank on a couple of walks and a home run - a lot more ways to beat you with singles, doubles, and smart outs. I like the home run as much as anyone...but being one dimensional isn't ideal. Just my opinion.

Smart outs? No outs are smart.

Yes 3 run Homer’s are a more efficient way to score then counting mythical “smart outs”

gobullz1 · 01-02-2019, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Fair enough but not all hits are created equal which is why average is not a great stat

Quote:

Originally Posted by calculusdork

So then, do we define "hitter" by however the majority defines it, or is there an objective, absolute definition?

Whoever hits the damn ball the most equal hitter ..whoever puts more on it for more bases equal slugger

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo

Two outs bottom of the ninth, down a run with guys on second and third.

Gwynn hits his terrible single and wins the game

McGwire strikes out

Votto stares are 4 pitches half an inch off the plate and takes his base

Yes and I’m sure in his career that happened 20 times.

Stech36 · 01-02-2019, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo

Two outs bottom of the ninth, down a run with guys on second and third.

Gwynn hits his terrible single and wins the game

McGwire strikes out

Votto stares are 4 pitches half an inch off the plate and takes his base

Two outs bottom of the ninth, down a run with a guy on first base.

Gwynn hits his terrible single and there’s runners on 1st and third

McGwire hits a home run and wins the game

Votto does any of a number of things.

Specific scenarios dictate different things. In most situations, other than the one you described, you’d rather have Votto or McGwire up to bat.

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calculusdork

So then, do we define "hitter" by however the majority defines it, or is there an objective, absolute definition?

Yes historically group think is the best way to determine anything

We’d all still be riding hoarse and carriages if we used what the majority thought

Ray27Ray52 · 01-02-2019, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Smart outs? No outs are smart.

Yes 3 run Homer’s are a more efficient way to score then counting mythical “smart outs”

I know you hate singles but damn if you don't believe that there are smart outs then you must really think sacrifice bunts are the devil.

erock28 · 01-02-2019, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Smart outs? No outs are smart.

Yes 3 run Homer’s are a more efficient way to score then counting mythical “smart outs”

So a sacrifice bunt by a pitcher isn't smart? He should swing for the fences like McGwire? Trading an out for a 90 foot advance late in a close game isn't smart? Come on, if you think an out is an out you don't know much about baseball.

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobullz1

Whoever hits the damn ball the most equal hitter ..whoever puts more on it for more bases equal slugger

Ok. I disagree but if that’s your though good for you.

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

I know you hate singles but damn if you don't believe that there are smart outs then you must really think sacrifice bunts are the devil.

So you are going to bunt with your lineup of Tony Gwynn’s?

Ray27Ray52 · 01-02-2019, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

So you are going to bunt with your lineup of Tony Gwynn’s?

Sigh. I didn't say I'd want a lineup of all Gwynn's. I know you are getting it from all sides but try to keep up.

gobullz1 · 01-02-2019, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Ok. I disagree but if that’s your though good for you.

Ok no problem but how can you twist it any different

.330 avg 15 hrs 80 rbis 40 2bs and let’s say 80 strikeouts

Vs

260 avg 35 hrs 120 RBI’s 25 2bs and 170 strikeouts

Ones a better hitter ones a higher slugger

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Sigh. I didn't say I'd want a lineup of all Gwynn's. I know you are getting it from all sides but try to keep up.

Someone else said it. Sorry there are like 5 of you.

ALBASKETBALL · 01-02-2019, 01:44 PM

Gwynn would hit 30 HR's if he played at Yankees stadium in todays MLB

40 if he juiced like McGwire

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobullz1

Ok no problem but how can you twist it any different

.330 avg 15 hrs 80 rbis 40 2bs and let’s say 80 strikeouts

Vs

260 avg 35 hrs 120 RBI’s 25 2bs and 170 strikeouts

Ones a better hitter ones a higher slugger

The goal is to get on base and score runs. Period

McGwire did that at a higher rate.

I hate 162 game rate. I think it leaves a lot out but it does give some context. Look at mcgwires and Gwynn. It’s not even close

erock28 · 01-02-2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Someone else said it. Sorry there are like 5 of you.

That was me - and I didn't say I'd WANT a lineup of all Gwynn's, but instead I would rather have all Gwynn's than all McGwire's. If I could build my dream team, of course it would be balanced...and I'd love a McGwire or two in the middle. Gun to my head, if I had to pick 9 of one or the other, I'd take Gwynn. And yes, I would bunt with my Gwynn's if the situation dictated.

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBASKETBALL

Gwynn would hit 30 HR's if he played at Yankees stadium in todays MLB

40 if he juiced like McGwire

Ok. #AddedValue

mattglet · 01-02-2019, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

I know you hate singles but damn if you don't believe that there are smart outs then you must really think sacrifice bunts are the devil.

Ok, you are trolling now, right? Run Expectancy is a real thing. Making an out is the worst thing you can do as a hitter.

MFaulkCollector · 01-02-2019, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erock28

There will likely never be a better pure hitter I've watched play than Tony Gwynn. It's not really that close IMO. Not for as long a period as he did it. I'm assuming that's the point of the thread - pure hitter.

The guy averaged 29 strikeouts per 162 games played. That's less than a few dozen players in todays game put up in a MONTH.

Straight up average or not striking out... That doesn’t necessarily make someone the greatest hitter

Some of the modern stats are better at valuing a hitter in totality; you get an idea of how average plays into value.

Gwynn was a low risk low reward hitter; practically little to no threat of driving the ball on a regular basis; but with that he only struc out once every 6-7 games. He hit the ball squarely a lot and his average showed it

Is that better than a guy hitting .280 with 45 home runs and an ops of .990?

Just depends on your preference. It seems there is a movement away from pure batting averages. Being a .300 hitter doesn’t mean what it used to as far as value in today’s game

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erock28

That was me - and I didn't say I'd WANT a lineup of all Gwynn's, but instead I would rather have all Gwynn's than all McGwire's. If I could build my dream team, of course it would be balanced...and I'd love a McGwire or two in the middle. Gun to my head, if I had to pick 9 of one or the other, I'd take Gwynn. And yes, I would bunt with my Gwynn's if the situation dictated.

Ok. If you want a teams that is less likely to get on base and produce runs you can do that

gobullz1 · 01-02-2019, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

The goal is to get on base and score runs. Period

McGwire did that at a higher rate.

I hate 162 game rate. I think it leaves a lot out but it does give some context. Look at mcgwires and Gwynn. It’s not even close

Ok so why is altuve so highly regarded as a better pure hitter than let’s say Nelson Cruz since Cruz gets more hrs and rbis he’s a better hitter correct

Peties Army · 01-02-2019, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattglet

Ok, you are trolling now, right? Run Expectancy is a real thing. Making an out is the worst thing you can do as a hitter.

I’ve discussed this before. You will hurt your head explaining it

Ray27Ray52 · 01-02-2019, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattglet

Ok, you are trolling now, right? Run Expectancy is a real thing. Making an out is the worst thing you can do as a hitter.

Run Expectancy is a made up statistic created in a basement somewhere in Boise Idaho while waiting for Mom's meatloaf to cool before you can eat it.

erock28 · 01-02-2019, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Ok. If you want a teams that is likely to get on base and produce runs you can do that

Yes - I would love a team that gets on base and produces runs. So are you agreeing with me?

View Poll Results: Who was the better hitter?
McGwire	11	3.65%
Gwynn	272	90.37%
Votto	18	5.98%
Voters: 301. You may not vote on this poll

01-02-2019, 01:35 PM	#52
ToppsNowFan Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 1,665	You left out Rafael Santana and Bobby Meachum...

01-02-2019, 01:44 PM	#65
ALBASKETBALL Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,113	Gwynn would hit 30 HR's if he played at Yankees stadium in todays MLB 40 if he juiced like McGwire