PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc - Page 4

corndog · 04-30-2019, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Just joining in. Upper left corner of the reverse of the raw Mantle: is that a shadow or a paper flaw/ink stain? It is gone in both graded photos.

Shadow caused by the corner being bent upward.
The light source is to the left of the card. You can see a shadow on the right edge and no shadow on the left.

astrotrevor · 04-30-2019, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

Shadow caused by the corner being bent upward.

The light source is to the left of the card. You can see a shadow on the right edge and no shadow on the left.

The corner was very dirty. It’s not a shadow.

mjohnatgt · 04-30-2019, 04:16 PM

Pressing out creases is not accepted by the vintage community and PSA will give the card an Authentic Altered designation or return it ungraded as Altered Stock.

SaveMeTheGum · 04-30-2019, 07:04 PM

Added thread to the altered/trimmed directory. This one is just depressing.

boston12 · 04-30-2019, 07:15 PM

Just read up on the soak and press process. Holy crap imagine placing your 52 mantle in water!?!?!? Just wild

superdan49 · 04-30-2019, 07:53 PM

I'm surprised Net54 hasn't picked up on this card yet and begun to analyze it. I collect vintage, but not as much as modern, so I defer questions about that market and its standards to those guys (I only lurk there). However, usually vintage threads trickle down from there to here. BO seems to be leading the charge this time.

ThoseBackPages · 04-30-2019, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

I'm surprised Net54 hasn't picked up on this card yet and begun to analyze it. I collect vintage, but not as much as modern, so I defer questions about that market and its standards to those guys (I only lurk there). However, usually vintage threads trickle down from there to here. BO seems to be leading the charge this time.

BODA is gonna shut down PSA & Big Grading Scam!

pcptrade · 04-30-2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

BODA is gonna shut down PSA & Big Grading Scam!

You forgot to expand PSA- Profession Scam Authority

ehp6737 · 04-30-2019, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcptrade

You forgot to expand PSA- Profession Scam Authority

Or the very fitting Please Submit Again

mjohnatgt · 04-30-2019, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

I'm surprised Net54 hasn't picked up on this card yet and begun to analyze it. I collect vintage, but not as much as modern, so I defer questions about that market and its standards to those guys (I only lurk there). However, usually vintage threads trickle down from there to here. BO seems to be leading the charge this time.

I (swarmee on Net54) crossposted it over there in the modern forum since there was already a thread discussing the trimming threads over here. I'll push it up the Postwar forum tomorrow. Did anyone report it to PWCC yet?

astrotrevor · 05-01-2019, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Did anyone report it to PWCC yet?

I sent a message to PWCC via eBay listing including the photos. I have not heard back.

I also emailed PSA the same photos in November of last year. I received a generic reply last month indicating that they’ve been very busy and asked if I still needed assistance.

KhalDrogo · 05-01-2019, 05:42 AM

I reported the evidence to PSA yesterday.

kidfan9 · 05-01-2019, 07:05 AM

PWCC is due in here any minute..."they are all fine people" "mistakes were made in the past" "we are the leader in the field"...blah, blah, blah!

astrotrevor · 05-01-2019, 09:13 AM

I've very interested to see if this auction will be removed. To me, it is clear the card has been 'modified' (most likely twice). Regardless if you call it trimming / pressing, card stock has been removed. In my opinion if you are removing card stock, it should be designated "Altered." PSA has slabbed this twice, so does that mean in their view 'pressing' is acceptable? TPGs provide a valuable service but transparency would be much appreciated.

investinrookies · 05-01-2019, 09:42 AM

I also messaged pwcc about this card. As previously said, it needs to be removed and I’m interested to see what they do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ac78217 · 05-01-2019, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrotrevor

Here is the raw card:

Here is the initial PSA slab sold through Heritage:

Current PSA slab through PWCC:

IF the top card is the same as the PSA ones, then it is probable pressed t get some wrinkles out as well. The top photo shows the card against a paper towel. Wet vintage plus paper towel usually means wrinkle were pressed.

coachnip13 · 05-01-2019, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidfan9

PWCC is due in here any minute..."they are all fine people" "mistakes were made in the past" "we are the leader in the field"...blah, blah, blah!

Hold on a sec.......how was PWCC supposed to know that this card has been trimmed? The only reason it is news here is because the OP had seen it in a family collection.

corndog · 05-01-2019, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Hold on a sec.......how was PWCC supposed to know that this card has been trimmed? The only reason it is news here is because the OP had seen it in a family collection.

It doesn't look to be trimmed - but is has been doctored/pressed/restored or whatever alteration you want to call it.

Rooftop · 05-01-2019, 10:57 AM

A glowing and altogether stunning '52 Topps Mickey Mantle for the grade. We love this card as it lights up the room, boasting unquestionably NM-MT surfaces with pristine clarity, near flawless print and vivid color. By far the cleanest and brightest copy we've brokered in years (including many which grade higher than the offered PSA 4.5). Perhaps what's most impressive about this shockingly beautiful card is the centering. Virtually 50-50 from every angle; an extremely rare quality for the condition sensitive kick-start to the ultra difficult high-number series. Boasts clean white borders with crisp edges and card stock void of any wrinkles. Extremely modest corner wear to the right two are all that accounts for the harsh assessment. This card would not be questioned for a second in a PSA 5 or even 5.5 holder. The '52 Topps Mantle is the most important post-war trading card in existence and seldom seen on the market with such exceptional overall eye appeal. Most educated investors appreciate that a card's eye appeal can fluctuate considerably within a single grade, and we are excited to label this example as being in the upper echelon of our quality spectrum. Comes with our highest recommendation. One of over 19,000 cards, lots, and sets up for bid in our 5th Auction of 2019. Click on the link above to view the other PWCC auction lots. The PWCC Vault is now live! Open a PWCC Vault account and receive a custom Vault shipping address. Purchases shipped to the Vault receive free shipping and reflect Oregon's 0% sales tax rate.

rainmaker · 05-01-2019, 10:59 AM

you guys do know pwcc is a consignor they had nothing to do with the trimming/alteration... they are simply selling a card psa authenticated and graded.

yes pwcc should do something now in light of evidence. take it down or if it sells make they buyer whole. but to say they did something wrong by accepting and auctioning this card shows an ignorant thought process.

monkeymcgee · 05-01-2019, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac78217

IF the top card is the same as the PSA ones, then it is probable pressed t get some wrinkles out as well. The top photo shows the card against a paper towel. Wet vintage plus paper towel usually means wrinkle were pressed.

I can't imagine the stones it would take to press a card like that. All other issues aside, you have to have nerves of steel.

coachnip13 · 05-01-2019, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

It doesn't look to be trimmed - but is has been doctored/pressed/restored or whatever alteration you want to call it.

And? Read my post again. How was PWCC supposed to know about it without having access to photos of a family collection?

Zan · 05-01-2019, 11:04 AM

I'm not sure that the card sold in Heritage is the one now offered by PWCC. The Heritage card shows a black pixel in the nameplate underneath the A and N in Mantle but the others do not. Based on surface on front and back it seems the first and third cards are the same.

Rooftop · 05-01-2019, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachnip13

And? Read my post again. How was PWCC supposed to know about it without having access to photos of a family collection?

They know now and its still up for auction

discostu · 05-01-2019, 11:09 AM

* If there's a hell way down below, I bet you see someone you know *

04-30-2019, 07:04 PM	#79
SaveMeTheGum Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: NH --> CA --> SC Posts: 17,092 Cardboard_Dynamite CardboardDynamite	Added thread to the altered/trimmed directory. This one is just depressing. __________________ Pay fast. Ship fast. Deal with people honestly. IG: CardboardDynamite

04-30-2019, 07:53 PM	#81
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,274	I'm surprised Net54 hasn't picked up on this card yet and begun to analyze it. I collect vintage, but not as much as modern, so I defer questions about that market and its standards to those guys (I only lurk there). However, usually vintage threads trickle down from there to here. BO seems to be leading the charge this time. __________________ Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line

05-01-2019, 05:42 AM	#87
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,731	I reported the evidence to PSA yesterday. __________________ I love PSA!

05-01-2019, 07:05 AM	#88
kidfan9 Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,692	PWCC is due in here any minute..."they are all fine people" "mistakes were made in the past" "we are the leader in the field"...blah, blah, blah! __________________ Ted Williams-Baseball's last .400 hitter

05-01-2019, 10:57 AM	#94
Rooftop Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 3,637	A glowing and altogether stunning '52 Topps Mickey Mantle for the grade. We love this card as it lights up the room, boasting unquestionably NM-MT surfaces with pristine clarity, near flawless print and vivid color. By far the cleanest and brightest copy we've brokered in years (including many which grade higher than the offered PSA 4.5). Perhaps what's most impressive about this shockingly beautiful card is the centering. Virtually 50-50 from every angle; an extremely rare quality for the condition sensitive kick-start to the ultra difficult high-number series. Boasts clean white borders with crisp edges and card stock void of any wrinkles. Extremely modest corner wear to the right two are all that accounts for the harsh assessment. This card would not be questioned for a second in a PSA 5 or even 5.5 holder. The '52 Topps Mantle is the most important post-war trading card in existence and seldom seen on the market with such exceptional overall eye appeal. Most educated investors appreciate that a card's eye appeal can fluctuate considerably within a single grade, and we are excited to label this example as being in the upper echelon of our quality spectrum. Comes with our highest recommendation. One of over 19,000 cards, lots, and sets up for bid in our 5th Auction of 2019. Click on the link above to view the other PWCC auction lots. The PWCC Vault is now live! Open a PWCC Vault account and receive a custom Vault shipping address. Purchases shipped to the Vault receive free shipping and reflect Oregon's 0% sales tax rate. Last edited by Rooftop; 05-01-2019 at 10:59 AM.

04-30-2019, 04:16 PM	#78
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,924 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	Pressing out creases is not accepted by the vintage community and PSA will give the card an Authentic Altered designation or return it ungraded as Altered Stock.

04-30-2019, 07:15 PM	#80
boston12 Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 3,283	Just read up on the soak and press process. Holy crap imagine placing your 52 mantle in water!?!?!? Just wild

05-01-2019, 09:13 AM	#89
astrotrevor Member Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 417	I've very interested to see if this auction will be removed. To me, it is clear the card has been 'modified' (most likely twice). Regardless if you call it trimming / pressing, card stock has been removed. In my opinion if you are removing card stock, it should be designated "Altered." PSA has slabbed this twice, so does that mean in their view 'pressing' is acceptable? TPGs provide a valuable service but transparency would be much appreciated.

05-01-2019, 09:42 AM	#90
investinrookies Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 534	I also messaged pwcc about this card. As previously said, it needs to be removed and I’m interested to see what they do. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05-01-2019, 10:59 AM	#95
rainmaker Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 2,839 thewescoast	you guys do know pwcc is a consignor they had nothing to do with the trimming/alteration... they are simply selling a card psa authenticated and graded. yes pwcc should do something now in light of evidence. take it down or if it sells make they buyer whole. but to say they did something wrong by accepting and auctioning this card shows an ignorant thought process. __________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/152850287@N08/albums

05-01-2019, 11:04 AM	#98
Zan Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: NY Posts: 1,049 card_soup	I'm not sure that the card sold in Heritage is the one now offered by PWCC. The Heritage card shows a black pixel in the nameplate underneath the A and N in Mantle but the others do not. Based on surface on front and back it seems the first and third cards are the same. __________________ I collect Hank Greenberg.

05-01-2019, 11:09 AM	#100
discostu Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 7,990	* If there's a hell way down below, I bet you see someone you know * __________________ Every day I start to ooze. Last edited by discostu; 11-15-2019 at 12:46 PM.