ALERT: 93 PROVEN TRIMMED Stephen Curry and James Harden RCs Sold Via PWCC

[JMANIA]

Originally Posted by superdan49

They generally do fine with the grading aspect of the card. You or I could hold a card in hand, check quick for creases, wrinkles, surface scratches, etc., and eye measure centering and award it a grade.

What they are failing to do is measure the cards and examine them for recoloring, trimming, etc. The backlogs and the inability to hire quality people only further complicates matters.

Pretty much I think they only do well with the authenticity aspect of the card. Even the grades themselves are inconsistent. I do not see the backlogs as the problem. They claim they cannot find enough quality people, but the system already has flaws and those "qualified" cannot catch this stuff.

Wondering if the grading companies want to pay PWCC to take down his archives.

[Luni]

Awesome work. Keep up the good fight!

I decided to check out some KG cards and didn't find much of interest besides this curious example:

1998-99 E-X Century Essentials Credentials Now 6/13
I don't see any evidence of trimming but it is suspect that the card was previously a BGS 9 (with an 8.5 sub and two 9 subs) before it ended up at PWCC as a quad 9.5 Gem.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...tial-134652096
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1912296

Maybe just a crack and resub, but interesting none the less.

[Luni]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

Wondering if the grading companies want to pay PWCC to take down his archives.

I was going to comment on this. The more and more of these findings coming out and it wouldn't surprise me if PWCC removed pictures from the archive listings or restricted them to paying/subbed customers.

[cking]

Originally Posted by charly41

it's shocking to see how many cards are obviousely trimmed/altered and grading companies give them high-grades, how can it be !??

If they continue to grade cards that are trimmed,the trimmers will keep sending in cards. Thats what we call a financial incentive.

If they contiue to give cards high grades that dont deserve high grades they know people get all happy and send in more cards. Another financial incentive.

They have financial incentive to lie. So thats what they do.

[notoriousrmb]

How about they go after the people submitting the trimmed cards first. I'm sure PWCC can provide a list of who's cards were submitted...that's who the feds should go after up front.

[brettmik59]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

I'd say that the ballpark is $75k. Feel free to correct me. That's just my very rough guesstimate.

Which is interesting because that really isn't all that much relatively speaking.

But it's only the ones found so far, and it's only 2 players! Somebody (or most likely some people) are making a living buying raw cards, altering them, and re-selling through PWCC. The reason I believe they sell most or all through PWCC is because of the gigantic premiums you get when selling rare stuff thru PWCC.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by brettmik59

But it's only the ones found so far, and it's only 2 players! Somebody (or most likely some people) are making a living buying raw cards, altering them, and re-selling through PWCC. The reason I believe they sell most or all through PWCC is because of the gigantic premiums you get when selling rare stuff on PWCC.

Definitely. I have more than $75k in trimmed basketball cards on a list of random cards to look into more later.

And there's at least four trimmers that contributed to this thread. Could be more.

[JMANIA]

Originally Posted by brettmik59

But it's only the ones found so far, and it's only 2 players! Somebody (or most likely some people) are making a living buying raw cards, altering them, and re-selling through PWCC. The reason I believe they sell most or all through PWCC is because of the gigantic premiums you get when selling rare stuff thru PWCC.

They do not only buy raw to alter/trim. They buy graded as well. PWCC is not the only dumping ground for this stuff, albeit he is a big one, he just has the archives.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

PWCC is not the only dumping ground for this stuff, albeit he is a big one, he just has the archives.

All the low end stuff (and sometimes duplicates) go to Probstein. Other than that, I'd be interested to hear of any more dumping grounds. I have found none. Archives of all sellers are on Worthpoint.

[lyyca]

You win the internet, OP!

Thank you for all the hard work put into this. Can't imagine the amount of time spent on compiling all the evidences.

[JMANIA]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

All the low end stuff (and sometimes duplicates) go to Probstein. Other than that, I'd be interested to hear of any more dumping grounds. I have found none. Archives of all sellers are on Worthpoint.

You are saying no one sends stuff to auction houses?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

You are saying no one sends stuff to auction houses?

Modern cards? Not many.

[I only pull for]

Is Probstein going to put out "tenets" next?
To Rick's credit, though - I do believe he will ban people harming his brand faster than PWCC.

[brettmik59]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

They do not only buy raw to alter/trim. They buy graded as well. PWCC is not the only dumping ground for this stuff, albeit he is a big one, he just has the archives.

Good point, they like to buy the low grades and shine em up too.

We may have ourselves a new episode of American Greed on CNBC. The only issue is, due to the dollar value of the fraud, does it ever actually get prosecuted?

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[Rooftop]

Nice Work 312

[JMANIA]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Modern cards? Not many.

Auctions houses sell less modern. But I am sure like Mastro did with altered vintage they have gone through vintage too. No I cannot prove with photos, but the altered/trimmed expensive cards are other places too. And I know other trimmers that have sold their own cards on ebay.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by I only pull for

Is Probstein going to put out "tenants" next?
To Rick's credit, though - I do believe he will ban people harming his brand faster than PWCC.

He better watch out, they're all headed his way.

Let's hope he bans them all, so we can consolidate all of this fraud at tntnorthnj.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

Auctions houses sell less modern. But I am sure like Mastro did with altered vintage they have gone through vintage too. No I cannot prove with photos, but the altered/trimmed expensive cards are everywhere. And I know other trimmers that have sold their own cards on ebay.

3 of the 4 trimmers that have cards in this thread all used to sell on their own Ebay accounts (excluding SSI), but all shut them down in the early-mid 2010s. PWCC provides them with the illusion that they have a lot of consignors submitting their best cards, when in reality it is the same few people consigning all of their cards. And they all look good because they're trimmed.

[BC81]

Speechless, thank you for sharing this. As a collector, looking at this is a gut punch. I am amazed by your work


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[Bassplayah101]

Oh my..

The amount of fraud being uncovered is staggering.


Impeccable job OP. You're making it easy for the authorities. BODA should be offered a career position.

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[Bassplayah101]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

3 of the 4 trimmers that have cards in this thread all used to sell on their own Ebay accounts (excluding SSI), but all shut them down in the early-mid 2010s. PWCC provides them with the illusion that they have a lot of consignors submitting their best cards, when in reality it is the same few people consigning all of their cards. And they all look good because they're trimmed.

I believe this as well.

PWCC is probably just waiting for all the supeneas to start rolling in.

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[PWCC Marketplace]

This is the result of significant time and research, and we are grateful for the efforts. PWCC will catalog each item identified and will go through the process we outlined in our Marketplace Tenets and the PWCC Marketplace Guarantee.

[Pathora]

I get that a lot of Vintage cards were miscut and probably shorter or longer than what the average should be. In this era of modern cards, the sizing standards from PSA/BGS should be very very strict, I don't know what's allowed now or if they even measure but this aspect needs to change.

I get that they get so many cards sent in and they don't have enough time to finely look at every little detail of all cards, but for higher dollar items there should be a tighter look.

[KhalDrogo]

Can’t wait to read through this gem.

You are a hobby savior 312.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by PWCC Marketplace

This is the result of significant time and research, and we are grateful for the efforts. PWCC will catalog each item identified and will go through the process we outlined in our Marketplace Tenets and the PWCC Marketplace Guarantee.

What if the buyers no longer have the cards or do not want to send them back to you?