PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[superdan49]

Wow on the Cobb.

This is why I disagree with Brent's definition of "conservation." If you look at the back of that Cobb, some of the original dark blue ink of the Piedmont back has been washed away. And on the front, even Cobb's name in dark brown ink appears bleached out on the PSA 3.5 in comparison with the PSA 2 card.

In this case, what Brent calls "conservation" isn't that; the correct word is restoration. But I believe the most accurate word is desecration.

[KhalDrogo]

That is incredible work on the Cobb.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by GatorPie

To me, PSA suing anyone involved in this could only serve to highlight their own incompetence or even worse, possibly fuel the perception of corruption, which is even worse. Even if they win, it would be made glaringly public that hundreds of altered cards slipped by their graders, something that is not supposed to happen regardless of who is submitting the cards. Personally, I think they'd be smarter to do nothing than to push this too hard.

Which means, to the average conspiracy theorist, that all the players are already in bed together.

I wouldn’t be surprised if PSA changed or eliminated its guarantees shortly.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Which means, to the average conspiracy theorist, that all the players are already in bed together.

I wouldn’t be surprised if PSA changed or eliminated its guarantees shortly.

Where else are people going to go if they do? To Beckett that doesn't have one? To SGC which seems content to be s small niche company?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Where else are people going to go if they do? To Beckett that doesn't have one? To SGC which seems content to be s small niche company?

Why would PSA care? They’re going to be watching out for #1...themselves.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #42313765

1953 Parkhurst Maurice 'Rocket' Richard #24

This is being posted by request from the most recent buyer.

Value gain of $2,172.00

This card was sold by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a PSA-7 on July 19, 2017 for $628.00. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1521667
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-8 for $2,800.00 on March 25, 2019. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Parkhu...p2047675.l2557

Yellow circles are fiber or print mark identifiers.
Red square shows trimmed edge at top. Now that I look at it again side by side the bottom also looks to have been trimmed. Red arrows on back point to reference dots for trimming.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Why would PSA care? They’re going to be watching out for #1...themselves.

That's my point, they could limit or omit the guaranty and not lose much business.

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by pspa123

That's my point, they could limit or omit the guaranty and not lose much business.

I really hope they just adjust the process and charge more for grading but we’ll see. Going the route of eliminating the guaranty would be akin to just admitting all cards are altered. I’m not interested in a hobby where the only cards I know are legit are the ones I pull myself.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by pspa123

That's my point, they could limit or omit the guaranty and not lose much business.

Sorry, I don’t see that in your posts.

Yes they’ll still lose business for a number of reasons...and they’d still be liable for their previous guarantees.

[mjohnatgt]

They could, but that would be huge news and would not allow for them to charge the amounts they do to grade. They would also have to grandfather in all currently graded cards because that was the agreement at the time. If not, they're liable to be sued for not fulfilling a written contract.
And they'd have to change their "Never Get Cheated" slogan, which should be on its outs anyway.

[seanbros55]

These crimes are bad enough in and of themselves, but to take these amazing pieces of American sports history, in some cases over 100 years old, and to utterly destroy them to go up a grade or two shows a complete lack of ANY love of the hobby. This is such a disgusting display of greed, and astonishing lack of any moral fiber whatsoever.

These people need to pay for this defamation of what USED TO BE beautiful artifacts.

[ark8085]

Originally Posted by seanbros55

These crimes are bad enough in and of themselves, but to take these amazing pieces of American sports history, in some cases over 100 years old, and to utterly destroy them to go up a grade or two shows a complete lack of ANY love of the hobby. This is such a disgusting display of greed, and astonishing lack of any moral fiber whatsoever.

These people need to pay for this defamation of what USED TO BE beautiful artifacts.

Beautifully said!

[corndog]

PSA Cert #27699477

1933 Goudey Sport Kings Jim Thorpe #6

Value gain of TBD

This card was sold by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a SGC-4 on December 14, 2016 for an unknown amount. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1397166
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-5.5 for $1,725.00 on October 9, 2017. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1555591

Yellow circles are fiber or print mark identifiers.
Red squares shows probable corner repair and possible top trim.
Any other surface work may not be noticeable on a computer screen.

[Wiseguy917]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

If I'm PSA and IF it's PWCC that is submitting Moser's cards, I'm lawyering up and pursuing civil action against PWCC. And if that's the case, I'm not releasing any statements about anything.

Arthur

It’s PSA’s job to catch the fraud, not PWCC. PSA is the one to blame here. How can anyone not see that? They’re slabbing garbage.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

It’s PSA’s job to catch the fraud, not PWCC. PSA is the one to blame here. How can anyone not see that? They’re slabbing garbage.

You really don't understand what is going on here?

[cking]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

It’s PSA’s job to catch the fraud, not PWCC. PSA is the one to blame here. How can anyone not see that? They’re slabbing garbage.

I agree with this on the surface.

However, from a legal standpoint....the person who sells the card is the person who is going to be liable.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Is PSA still churning out graded cards with all of this going on?!

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by cking

I agree with this on the surface.



However, from a legal standpoint....the person who sells the card is the person who is going to be liable.

Everyone is going to get sued.

If not, then something is horribly wrong.

Class-action for anyone who owns a PSA slab, or has ever owned one...plus PWCC.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by corndog

You really don't understand what is going on here?

he does not

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Is PSA still churning out graded cards with all of this going on?!

why wouldnt they?

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by corndog

You really don't understand what is going on here?

Reminds me of the Dylan line.
Something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.
Do you, Mr. Jones?

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by cking

I agree with this on the surface.

However, from a legal standpoint....the person who sells the card is the person who is going to be liable.

BECAUSE the person who is selling the card is also the person submitting the card, he is going to be liable. PSA's guarantee would never kick in because Brent is the submitter and the seller.

[cking]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Everyone is going to get sued.

If not, then something is horribly wrong.

Class-action for anyone who owns a PSA slab, or has ever owned one...plus PWCC.

Until someone actually files a criminal complaint on PWCC, nothing is going to happen.

And heres the problem with that. If someone does file a complaint and the cops go to PWCC and he is willing to give the customer their money back, the police will more then likely do nothing.

I hope I am wrong. I hope everyone in this mess gets what is coming to them.

I dont know what the next step to take is. If I had to take a guess I would say you need a media outlet to pick up the story. A media outlet that has a large following.

I have asked this before and no one ever answers so I will ask again.

Are people allowed to post on the social media accounts of PSA or BGS?

If the answers is yes, what has been the result? Do they remove anything negative about them instantly?

[corndog]

PSA Cert #28319714

1938 Goudey Joe DiMaggio RC #250

Value gain of $945.00

This card was sold by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a PSA-3 on December 04, 2016 for $1,875.00. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1390704
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-3.5 for $2,820.00 on March 11, 2018. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1619386

Yellow circles are fiber or print mark identifiers.
Obviously cleaned. The type at the bottom of the front doesn't look sharp after the cleaning.

[Mountaineer]

Corndog and others helping are doing the Lords work. It's absolutely amazing. It disgusts me how these vintage cards and ruined just for a few points on a bump.

Anyone who calls this "conservation" is full of sh*t.