BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

Exactly man, all of this. Plus, we've already established that even if Joe Clemons had the eye of Sauron, it still wouldn't translate into that many BL because the actual people grading the cards do not have that same eye. You are splitting hairs when determining the difference between a 9.5 and a 10, and a 10 and a BL.

And Joe probably is a decent guy, and if I built the kinds of relationships within the hobby that he has, and was offered preferential treatment, I would probably accept it too. But the way they went about executing this level of preferential treatment is just stupid and careless, and could really put Beckett in a bind as a company. As I said, damage is done for sure.

I've said this as well and this point needs to be driven home. The "great eye" argument only works if Beckett was using some objective computer driven method of grading. Otherwise, one person having a great eye doesn't matter. Another human (the grader) also has to agree. This is where the "great eye" argument breaks down.

And please don't say that the grader does this for a living and thus also will be able to come to the same conclusion as Joe. This argument is easily dismissed by the following fact: Send a card into Beckett for grading and get the subgrades. Now break the card out and resend. You'll get the same subgrades 25% of the time if you're lucky. As we all know, grading is subjective and the graders are just as fallible as we are.

[stryk]

I work in the service industry and getting the hook up from friends, ex-coworkers, fellow industry workers is literally the norm. I have so many team members that go to other restaurants where their friends work and they tell me they get free drinks and food and everything else. I have gotten my fair share of free rounds and have left enormous tips because of it. To think that at the very least, he is not getting the "hook up" from his friends is crazy. It happens in nearly every other part of life.

[no10pin]

Originally Posted by Peties Army

So his response was deleted? I’d like to read it

It wasn't deleted, it was merged into this thread. I don't remember what page it's on now though.

[no10pin]

Here it is

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...1#post14721271

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by no10pin

It wasn't deleted, it was merged into this thread. I don't remember what page it's on now though.

Thank you sir.

[dizzydolse]

Originally Posted by stryk

I work in the service industry and getting the hook up from friends, ex-coworkers, fellow industry workers is literally the norm. I have so many team members that go to other restaurants where their friends work and they tell me they get free drinks and food and everything else. I have gotten my fair share of free rounds and have left enormous tips because of it. To think that at the very least, he is not getting the "hook up" from his friends is crazy. It happens in nearly every other part of life.

Exactly right, it does. Which is why this isn’t hard to understand for some of us. Most companies/industries will go about dishing out favors in a responsible way that wouldn’t destroy the integrity of their entire operation though.

[Kuch86]

Here is his reply

Originally Posted by WJCIII

Rather than have this on page 9 of the other thread, I wanted it front and center:

Ok boys, here is my very last response to these accusations and then I’m moving on. I will not read these threads, reply to these threads, or anything else. What I’m telling you below is the 100% truth in every way. You can choose to believe it or not. Please know that if you’re responding to these threads I will not see it so there’s no use asking me anything else unless you do it over PM. Here you go:

The true stuff from the accusers:

Yes, I do know graders at Beckett and I like every single one of them. I don’t know everybody there because they’ve hired dozens of new people since I left but several of their graders have been there for 20 years so they were there when I arrived and are still there today.

Yes, I drop off my stuff in person. However, that stuff is NOT handed to a grader. It’s given to a sales/data entry person so my card is charged.

Yes, I’ve gotten a good amount of black labels in the past. I’m also submitting the easiest stuff on the planet to get good grades on. You will not see 1993 SP, National Treasures, Panini Noir, or any other condition sensitive card in black label on my account. You will see a ton of Chrome Update, Bowman Chrome, Topps Update, Prizm basketball, etc. I spend hours on top of hours going through 10’s of thousands of cards to submit the nicest ones.

Yes, I did have a hobby relationship with FCCG. I was their BGS account manager up until the time I left. I did make a post on here 9 years ago on behalf of them to buy cards but I simply copy and pasted an email from them because they didn’t have an account on Blowout (I have no idea whether they opened one after that). After re-reading the post I definitely should have changed the wording to not say “I” so for that I apologize. I was simply doing them a favor. I did, however, forward their info to other BGS customers looking to sell inventory because FCCG advertised on Beckett looking to buy collections. If I knew somebody was looking for someone trustworthy to sell to I would send them to FCCG because I did, and still do, trust them. I will go to my grave believing that if the guys at FCCG ended up with bad stuff it was an accident. You also have to understand that when I was their grading rep BGS offered minimum grade options so they had full orders that were all 10’s, others that were all 9.5’s, and so on. So again, yes, I helped FCCG find things to buy. Yes, I was their BGS rep. No, I did not receive any money from them outside of my compensation from Beckett.

Yes, I work at Leaf and am proud to do so. Yes, I sometimes buy Leaf product if there is any leftover, including 20 cases of Metal in 2013. I listed my cards on release date as instructed when I bought the cases. I buy our products because our content is great and the cards generally grade very well. However, I’ve been buying and selling cards since 1990 and have been on eBay since 1999 so I do my own thing as well.

No, I do not alter cards. That doesn’t seem to be an accusation but it was brought up so I just want to clarify.

Truths from me:

No, I do not have an inside man at BGS. Their system is set up so that you wouldn’t need 1 inside man, you would need 4-5. You would need all of the following people will to sacrifice their jobs to give you grades: a data entry person to accept the order, a grader to give you grades, a data entry person to enter your grades without bringing it to anybody’s attention, a person to slab the cards without saying anything, and a person to ship the cards without saying anything. A minimum of 5 people will deal with an order from the time it was received to the time it leaves. That’s why I’ve said for years, far before this controversy, that having an inside man is impossible. I just don’t see how it can be done. I will say unequivocally, on the record, and under oath if necessary, I DO NOT HAVE ANYBODY AT BGS GIVING ME GRADES. I don’t think it’s impossible to see some lawsuits coming out of all of this and if asked to give testimony I will absolutely say under oath that nobody at BGS is giving me grades. BGS absolutely logs who grades which order so there would be no way for a grader to grade my order without everybody in the department being able to see that they had graded it.

I was not a grader while at BGS but I’ve inspected 10’s of thousands of cards for BGS customers when they would ask me at the show booth whether or not they should get a card graded. However, I think it is important to point out that I have never been the final say on a BGS card.

The reason it looks like I’m getting X number of black labels “in a row” is because in every list of grades I’ve ever received BGS has always grouped black labels together. They do this because that’s the way the grades are fed into their label matrix for printing. Black labels are printed together, gold labels together, silver labels together, etc.

I have been up front for years about my having been a BGS employee. I’ve made more posts than I care to count trying to explain the inner workings of grading companies so people can be more confident with the process rather than relying on speculation. I thought my having been an employee would lead to being able to provide valuable information.

Contrary to popular belief, I get hundreds of non-10’s in my orders. The people doing the research have no doubt seen those orders but don’t post them because it’s not convenient for their accusations. They have chosen to take only the black labels and/or 10’s from these orders to show. I have offered to send pictures of the cards I haven’t listed yet but that wasn’t good enough. Instead I was asked to make a video of myself logging into my account and going through each order individually so everybody can see every card I’ve ever graded. I simply will not do that. Other things I won’t film myself doing: logging into my bank accounts, logging into my health care accounts, logging into my retirement accounts, showering.

I’ve said multiple times that I submit my very best, cleanest stuff in smaller batches and pay for faster turnaround times. I submit in smaller batches in hopes of doing better on grades. Perhaps it’s just a psychological thing but I feel like my chances of going 3/3, 8/10, 10/12, etc. are better than going, say, 80 for 100. Again, I have no proof but I like my chances of breaking things into smaller batches than 1 big one. So far I’ve done well that way. However, I do big orders also. If I don’t think a card is 10 quality or it’s a really cheap card then I put it in a bigger batch and often do no sub-grades to save time and money. I also occasionally submit with friends if I don’t have enough cards to get a discount so while not all of the cards I’ve graded are on my BGS account they are sold on my eBay account. I also occasionally do minimum grade orders but I have to pay even if the card doesn’t get slabbed so I try not to do many. I will fully admit that I went 3/3 on the one order. It’s possible the other orders had more cards but I can’t say for sure.

I list all of my cards on my own account. I have sent a handful of cards to PWCC and maybe a few hundred to Probstein but I think it’s been 2 years or more since I’ve done that. My black labels, 10’s, 9.5’s, and raw go on my own account. I advertise the ungraded stuff on my account as NM or better so as not to make people think the cards are grade worthy. There are no doubt some 9.5’s in my raw stuff but I still describe them as NM or better.

Kyaa wanted to submit through me in March when I was considering doing a BGS group sub. I chose not to do the group sub and now this. I just thought it was fair to let you guys know that 2 months ago he considered me trustworthy enough to grade with despite already knowing the kind of grades I get. He even mentioned in his PM’s how well I seem to do. Since I didn’t choose to do the group sub and he has no use for me anymore he’s decided to attack me instead.

Things I am willing to do:

If anybody would like to contact people that have bought black label cards from me and ask them if they believe the card is over graded then they can send it to me. I won’t blindly buy everything back but if they can show me a noticeable flaw that BGS missed then I will absolutely buy it back.

I am going to spend the next couple of weeks listing hundreds of non-10’s, raw cards, lots etc. so everybody can see that I do, in fact, not get all 10’s and black labels. I’ve offered to provide pictures of these cards but since that wasn’t good enough I’ll list them on my account for all the world to see. The listings will start this weekend. I have an additional 300 cards at PSA, also stuff I do not feel was 10 worthy, that I hope to have back in the next 6 weeks or so and you will see those on my account as well.

I have offered, and will continue to offer, to sit down with anybody that has any questions for me in person at the National. I will bring any black labels I still have to the show with me and we can all review them together. I have nothing to hide so sitting down with everybody in person is no problem for me at all. I will wear a nametag at the show so I am easy to find.

I think that covers everything. I apologize if I left anything out. I can tell you that I am not going away. I will be on here buying and selling. I will be on eBay, I will be at shows, I will be submitting cards for grading. I will be doing what I have always done. I expect/hope to have years of 9.5’s, 10’s, black labels, PSA graded stuff, raw cards, etc. ahead of me. Some of you will not like that and that’s fine. I suspect most of you have your mind made up and that’s also fine.

Again, this is my final statement on the matter. If you post in this thread asking me questions, calling me out, or anything else you will not get a response. I will not read this thread or any other thread pertaining to me. There is simply no reason. There are no repercussions for people making false accusations, only the accused. For that reason I’m done with these threads after this.

[Cubsfanp]

Originally Posted by Cubsfanp

Kyaa- While we are waiting for Dan, do you mind posting in full, the PMs you had with Joe in regards to this submission in March?

Only been 3 hours since i asked for the PMs.

Tick tock, Kyaa

[pejc300]

Somebody PM me when the findings are posted. I keep coming here waiting to see them but nothing.

[Peties Army]

Luckily It’s just baseball card and all other cards or safe.

#Derp

[Cubsfanp]

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Luckily It’s just baseball card and all other cards or safe.

#Derp

Just collect Pokémon and you'll be fine. Harder to trim since the corners are rounded

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by no10pin

I think everyone needs a Coke and a smile while Dan puts together his findings. This is legitimately making people nuts.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by DaRitz

The plot twist is going to be grand.

Followed by a bunch of deleted/edited posts and "Yeah but..." comments.

Tease.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[superdan49]

The following are the results of my inquiry into BO Member WJCIII's Beckett account.

First some info: My pledge made to Joe was that I would post only the facts as I saw them and not editorialize. This board, which has factions who both believe and disbelieve Joe's account so far, can come to their own conclusions based on the data. Please note that if I did not make a pledge to Joe that I would remain an unbiased fact-finder in my public postings, then we would not have gotten access to this trove of data. Joe was not under court order to turn it over to me or anyone else, and we certainly would not have received it from Beckett.

Now on to the details. Joe's BGS grading account contained exactly 31 orders, ranging in date from 11/16/18 to 5/8/19. The only order omitted from this tally was the single BCCG order, leaving 30 orders for me to examine.

By my count, those 30 orders contained 767 cards, with 108 of those earning BGS 10 Black Labels. 23 of these 30 were processed by BGS as "Bulk 10-Day Non-Guaranteed" service level, another 6 of these orders were "Ten-Day-Old" service level, and the remaining 2 of these orders were "On-Site Same Day." Each order was both delivered and picked up by Joe in person.

Joe put forth the claim to me that he also graded cards during this time in two groups subs, containing 83 and 120 cards, respectively. From those two group subs, Joe earned 10 additional Black Labels. Furthermore, Joe said his orders are set with a BGS 9.5 minimum grade. He estimated 50 cards did not make the min grade. Therefore, I've included these cards in what I'm calling the unverified totals, which tally to 916 cards with 118 total BGS 10 Black Labels. The 10 Black Labels with asterisks are from the group sub.

Here now is the complete list of all BGS 10 Black Labels found in Joe's account, plus the 10 from the claimed group submission:

10955617 Football 2018 Panini Contenders Draft Picks Game Day Tickets Baker Mayfield
10955619 Football 2018 Panini Contenders Draft Picks Game Day Tickets Sony Michel
10970522 Baseball 2016 Topps Chrome Mike Trout
10970525 Baseball 2017 Topps Archives Derek Jeter Retrospective Derek Jeter/'14 Topps
10978584 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
10988435 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update An International Affair Gleyber Torres
10988437 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RD
10988439 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres
10988440 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres
10988442 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RC
10988445 Baseball 2013 Finest Mike Trout
11014560 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11014562 Baseball 2017 Bowman Chrome Draft Royce Lewis
11014563 Baseball 2018 Topps Walmart Holiday Snowflake Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11014565 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update An International Affair Shohei Ohtani
11014567 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
11014568 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Manny Machado RC
11014570 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RD
11014571 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RD
11014573 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mookie Betts
11014575 Baseball 2018 Topps Update An International Affair Shohei Ohtani
11014577 Baseball 2018 Topps Walmart Holiday Snowflake Shohei Ohtani RC
11014580 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mike Trout
11026495 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mike Trout
11026497 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RD
11026500 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RD
11026501 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mookie Betts
11027486 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11027504 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Shohei Ohtani
11027506 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Shohei Ohtani
11035489 Baseball 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11043162 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Blue Josh Okogie
11043163 Baseball 2013 Bowman Draft Silver Ice Nolan Arenado
11084358 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Silver Josh Okogie
11084370 Basketball 2018-19 Hoops Luka Doncic RC
11084378 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr.
11084380 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Mike Trout
11084382 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Mookie Betts
11090437 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Jonathan India
11090440 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Silver Wave Jordan Groshans
11090441 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Silver Wave Jordan Groshans
11090443 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Green Refractors Alec Bohm
11090447 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11090448 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Blue Refractors Jarred Kelenic
11090450 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update David Bote RC
11101874 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11101875 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11101877 Baseball 2018 Panini Revolution Mike Trout
11101878 Baseball 2018 Topps Fire Fired Up Mike Trout
11101892 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Pink Wave Wander Franco/10
11125838 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Revolution Rookie Revolution Impact Luka Doncic
11125839 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11125840 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr.
11125841 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11125842 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Juan Soto
11125843 Baseball 2018 Topps '83 Topps Silver Pack Chrome Green Ref Ronald Acuna Jr.
11125844 Baseball 2017 Bowman Draft Silver Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11125845 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Prospects Ref Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11143122 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Gleyber Torres RC
11143123 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trending Ref Ronald Acuna
11142977 Baseball 2018 Topps Allen and Ginter Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11142989 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trng Ref Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11142993 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trending Ref Ronald Acuna
11142994 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Gleyber Torres RC
11142995 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome X-Fractors Gleyber Torres
11143005 Baseball 2018 Topps Archives Gleyber Torres RC
11143008 Baseball 2018 Topps Allen and Ginter Gleyber Torres RC
11143009 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Gleyber Torres
11143010 Baseball 2017 Bowman Chrome Draft Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11143024 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Pros Refractors Ronald Acuna
11196721 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Refractors Cole Winn
11196723 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Gleyber Torres RC
11196725 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ozzie Albies
11196728 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11196730 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11213231 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Refractors Casey Mize
11177833 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Mike Trout
11177835 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Mike Trout
11177841 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11177844 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Juan Soto
11177845 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11177848 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11177851 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RC
11184960 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Christian Yelich RC
11184961 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11184962 Baseball 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11184963 Baseball 2013 Bowman Draft Nolan Arenado RC
11184964 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Blue Refractors Mookie Betts
11216917 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Casey Mize
11216919 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Gleyber Torres RC
11216920 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11216921 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Green Ref Nick Schnell
11267305 Football 2018 Panini Prizm Rookie Autographs Prizms Sony Michel
11267321 Football 2018 Leaf Flash Autographs Mason Rudolph
11267324 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best '97 Best Cuts Aaron Judge
11267328 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Nolan Arenado RC
11267331 Hockey 2015-16 Upper Deck Canvas Jack Eichel YG
11304537 Baseball 2018 Panini Phoenix Aqua Clint Frazier
11304539 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Gleyber Torres
11304541 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout
11306163 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Sepia Refractors Mike Trout
11306165 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout
11306166 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout SP
11306168 Baseball 2017 Topps Chrome Update Cody Bellinger RD
11306169 Baseball 2012 Bowman Draft Bryce Harper RC
11334005 Baseball 2018 Topps Opening Day Jack Flaherty RC
11334006 Baseball 2010 Bowman Prospects Anthony Rizzo
11334007 Baseball 2018 Topps Rainbow Foil Harrison Bader
*11334100 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rhys Hoskins RC
*11334101 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rhys Hoskins RC
*11334102 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
*11334103 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
*11334090 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RC
*11334091 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC
*11334093 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rafael Devers RC
*11334095 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trdg Ref Fernando Tatis Jr.
*11334096 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Jo Adell
*11334097 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Jo Adell
Items with asterisks came from Joe's group subs, which were not in his account and thus I cannot personally speak to.


I can personally attest that this data is what I found on Joe Clemons's BGS grading account.

[pejc300]

There's a lot more coming, right? Before I start asking approximately 124 questions, just want to make sure there is going to be a lot more posted.

[Blue_Devil]

111 out of 916

[kyaa]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The following are the results of my inquiry into BO Member WJCIII's Beckett account.

First some info: My pledge made to Joe was that I would post only the facts as I saw them and not editorialize. This board, which has factions who both believe and disbelieve Joe's account so far, can come to their own conclusions based on the data. Please note that if I did not make a pledge to Joe that I would remain an unbiased fact-finder in my public postings, then we would not have gotten access to this trove of data. Joe was not under court order to turn it over to me or anyone else, and we certainly would not have received it from Beckett.

Now on to the details. Joe's BGS grading account contained exactly 31 orders, ranging in date from 11/16/18 to 5/8/19. The only order omitted from this tally was the single BCCG order, leaving 30 orders for me to examine.

By my count, those 30 orders contained 767 cards, with 108 of those earning BGS 10 Black Labels. 23 of these 30 were processed by BGS as "Bulk 10-Day Non-Guaranteed" service level, another 6 of these orders were "Ten-Day-Old" service level, and the remaining 2 of these orders were "On-Site Same Day." Each order was both delivered and picked up by Joe in person.

Joe put forth the claim to me that he also had two cards from two groups subs, containing 83 and 120 cards, respectively. From those two group subs, Joe earned 10 additional Black Labels. Furthermore, Joe said his orders are set with a BGS 9.5 minimum grade. He estimated 50 cards did not make the min grade. Therefore, I've included these cards in what I'm calling the unverified totals, which tally to 916 cards with 118 total BGS 10 Black Labels. The 10 Black Labels with asterisks are from the group sub.

Here now is the complete list of all BGS 10 Black Labels found in Joe's account, plus the 10 from the claimed group submission:

10955617 Football 2018 Panini Contenders Draft Picks Game Day Tickets Baker Mayfield
10955619 Football 2018 Panini Contenders Draft Picks Game Day Tickets Sony Michel
10970522 Baseball 2016 Topps Chrome Mike Trout
10970525 Baseball 2017 Topps Archives Derek Jeter Retrospective Derek Jeter/'14 Topps
10978584 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
10988435 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update An International Affair Gleyber Torres
10988437 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RD
10988439 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres
10988440 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres
10988442 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RC
10988445 Baseball 2013 Finest Mike Trout
11014560 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11014562 Baseball 2017 Bowman Chrome Draft Royce Lewis
11014563 Baseball 2018 Topps Walmart Holiday Snowflake Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11014565 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update An International Affair Shohei Ohtani
11014567 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
11014568 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Manny Machado RC
11014570 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RD
11014571 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RD
11014573 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mookie Betts
11014575 Baseball 2018 Topps Update An International Affair Shohei Ohtani
11014577 Baseball 2018 Topps Walmart Holiday Snowflake Shohei Ohtani RC
11014580 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mike Trout
11026495 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mike Trout
11026497 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RD
11026500 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RD
11026501 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mookie Betts
11027486 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11027504 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Shohei Ohtani
11027506 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Shohei Ohtani
11035489 Baseball 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11043162 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Blue Josh Okogie
11043163 Baseball 2013 Bowman Draft Silver Ice Nolan Arenado
11084358 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Silver Josh Okogie
11084370 Basketball 2018-19 Hoops Luka Doncic RC
11084378 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr.
11084380 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Mike Trout
11084382 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Mookie Betts
11090437 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Jonathan India
11090440 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Silver Wave Jordan Groshans
11090441 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Silver Wave Jordan Groshans
11090443 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Green Refractors Alec Bohm
11090447 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11090448 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Blue Refractors Jarred Kelenic
11090450 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update David Bote RC
11101874 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11101875 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11101877 Baseball 2018 Panini Revolution Mike Trout
11101878 Baseball 2018 Topps Fire Fired Up Mike Trout
11101892 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Pink Wave Wander Franco/10
11125838 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Revolution Rookie Revolution Impact Luka Doncic
11125839 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11125840 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr.
11125841 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11125842 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Juan Soto
11125843 Baseball 2018 Topps '83 Topps Silver Pack Chrome Green Ref Ronald Acuna Jr.
11125844 Baseball 2017 Bowman Draft Silver Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11125845 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Prospects Ref Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11143122 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Gleyber Torres RC
11143123 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trending Ref Ronald Acuna
11142977 Baseball 2018 Topps Allen and Ginter Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11142989 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trng Ref Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11142993 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trending Ref Ronald Acuna
11142994 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Gleyber Torres RC
11142995 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome X-Fractors Gleyber Torres
11143005 Baseball 2018 Topps Archives Gleyber Torres RC
11143008 Baseball 2018 Topps Allen and Ginter Gleyber Torres RC
11143009 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Gleyber Torres
11143010 Baseball 2017 Bowman Chrome Draft Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11143024 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Pros Refractors Ronald Acuna
11196721 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Refractors Cole Winn
11196723 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Gleyber Torres RC
11196725 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ozzie Albies
11196728 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11196730 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11213231 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Refractors Casey Mize
11177833 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Mike Trout
11177835 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Mike Trout
11177841 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11177844 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Juan Soto
11177845 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11177848 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11177851 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RC
11184960 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Christian Yelich RC
11184961 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11184962 Baseball 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11184963 Baseball 2013 Bowman Draft Nolan Arenado RC
11184964 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Blue Refractors Mookie Betts
11216917 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Casey Mize
11216919 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Gleyber Torres RC
11216920 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11216921 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Green Ref Nick Schnell
11267305 Football 2018 Panini Prizm Rookie Autographs Prizms Sony Michel
11267321 Football 2018 Leaf Flash Autographs Mason Rudolph
11267324 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best '97 Best Cuts Aaron Judge
11267328 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Nolan Arenado RC
11267331 Hockey 2015-16 Upper Deck Canvas Jack Eichel YG
11304537 Baseball 2018 Panini Phoenix Aqua Clint Frazier
11304539 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Gleyber Torres
11304541 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout
11306163 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Sepia Refractors Mike Trout
11306165 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout
11306166 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout SP
11306168 Baseball 2017 Topps Chrome Update Cody Bellinger RD
11306169 Baseball 2012 Bowman Draft Bryce Harper RC
11334005 Baseball 2018 Topps Opening Day Jack Flaherty RC
11334006 Baseball 2010 Bowman Prospects Anthony Rizzo
11334007 Baseball 2018 Topps Rainbow Foil Harrison Bader
*11334100 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rhys Hoskins RC
*11334101 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rhys Hoskins RC
*11334102 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
*11334103 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
*11334090 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RC
*11334091 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC
*11334093 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rafael Devers RC
*11334095 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trdg Ref Fernando Tatis Jr.
*11334096 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Jo Adell
*11334097 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Jo Adell
Items with asterisks came from Joe's group subs, which were not in his account and thus I cannot personally speak to.


I can personally attest that this data is what I found on Joe Clemons's BGS grading account.

So Joe is grading through a second account. Because I have sub results of cards sold by him dating back to August 2018. That's why they wanted to share this with you--because it's grossly incomplete.

Or, BGS deleted his earlier submission results. One of the two.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by Blue_Devil

111 out of 916

Don't even start commenting yet until we see all of the data. Just want to make sure it's ALL out there before we start asking questions.

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The following are the results of my inquiry into BO Member WJCIII's Beckett account.

First some info: My pledge made to Joe was that I would post only the facts as I saw them and not editorialize. This board, which has factions who both believe and disbelieve Joe's account so far, can come to their own conclusions based on the data. Please note that if I did not make a pledge to Joe that I would remain an unbiased fact-finder in my public postings, then we would not have gotten access to this trove of data. Joe was not under court order to turn it over to me or anyone else, and we certainly would not have received it from Beckett.

Now on to the details. Joe's BGS grading account contained exactly 31 orders, ranging in date from 11/16/18 to 5/8/19. The only order omitted from this tally was the single BCCG order, leaving 30 orders for me to examine.

By my count, those 30 orders contained 767 cards, with 108 of those earning BGS 10 Black Labels. 23 of these 30 were processed by BGS as "Bulk 10-Day Non-Guaranteed" service level, another 6 of these orders were "Ten-Day-Old" service level, and the remaining 2 of these orders were "On-Site Same Day." Each order was both delivered and picked up by Joe in person.

Joe put forth the claim to me that he also had two cards from two groups subs, containing 83 and 120 cards, respectively. From those two group subs, Joe earned 10 additional Black Labels. Furthermore, Joe said his orders are set with a BGS 9.5 minimum grade. He estimated 50 cards did not make the min grade. Therefore, I've included these cards in what I'm calling the unverified totals, which tally to 916 cards with 118 total BGS 10 Black Labels. The 10 Black Labels with asterisks are from the group sub.

Here now is the complete list of all BGS 10 Black Labels found in Joe's account, plus the 10 from the claimed group submission:

10955617 Football 2018 Panini Contenders Draft Picks Game Day Tickets Baker Mayfield
10955619 Football 2018 Panini Contenders Draft Picks Game Day Tickets Sony Michel
10970522 Baseball 2016 Topps Chrome Mike Trout
10970525 Baseball 2017 Topps Archives Derek Jeter Retrospective Derek Jeter/'14 Topps
10978584 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
10988435 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update An International Affair Gleyber Torres
10988437 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RD
10988439 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres
10988440 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres
10988442 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RC
10988445 Baseball 2013 Finest Mike Trout
11014560 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11014562 Baseball 2017 Bowman Chrome Draft Royce Lewis
11014563 Baseball 2018 Topps Walmart Holiday Snowflake Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11014565 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update An International Affair Shohei Ohtani
11014567 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
11014568 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Manny Machado RC
11014570 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RD
11014571 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RD
11014573 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mookie Betts
11014575 Baseball 2018 Topps Update An International Affair Shohei Ohtani
11014577 Baseball 2018 Topps Walmart Holiday Snowflake Shohei Ohtani RC
11014580 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mike Trout
11026495 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mike Trout
11026497 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RD
11026500 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RD
11026501 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mookie Betts
11027486 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11027504 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Shohei Ohtani
11027506 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Shohei Ohtani
11035489 Baseball 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11043162 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Blue Josh Okogie
11043163 Baseball 2013 Bowman Draft Silver Ice Nolan Arenado
11084358 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Silver Josh Okogie
11084370 Basketball 2018-19 Hoops Luka Doncic RC
11084378 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr.
11084380 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Mike Trout
11084382 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Mookie Betts
11090437 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Jonathan India
11090440 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Silver Wave Jordan Groshans
11090441 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Silver Wave Jordan Groshans
11090443 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Green Refractors Alec Bohm
11090447 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11090448 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Blue Refractors Jarred Kelenic
11090450 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update David Bote RC
11101874 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11101875 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11101877 Baseball 2018 Panini Revolution Mike Trout
11101878 Baseball 2018 Topps Fire Fired Up Mike Trout
11101892 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Pink Wave Wander Franco/10
11125838 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Revolution Rookie Revolution Impact Luka Doncic
11125839 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11125840 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr.
11125841 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11125842 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Juan Soto
11125843 Baseball 2018 Topps '83 Topps Silver Pack Chrome Green Ref Ronald Acuna Jr.
11125844 Baseball 2017 Bowman Draft Silver Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11125845 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Prospects Ref Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11143122 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Gleyber Torres RC
11143123 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trending Ref Ronald Acuna
11142977 Baseball 2018 Topps Allen and Ginter Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11142989 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trng Ref Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11142993 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trending Ref Ronald Acuna
11142994 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Gleyber Torres RC
11142995 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome X-Fractors Gleyber Torres
11143005 Baseball 2018 Topps Archives Gleyber Torres RC
11143008 Baseball 2018 Topps Allen and Ginter Gleyber Torres RC
11143009 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Gleyber Torres
11143010 Baseball 2017 Bowman Chrome Draft Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11143024 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Pros Refractors Ronald Acuna
11196721 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Refractors Cole Winn
11196723 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Gleyber Torres RC
11196725 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ozzie Albies
11196728 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11196730 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11213231 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Refractors Casey Mize
11177833 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Mike Trout
11177835 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Mike Trout
11177841 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11177844 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Juan Soto
11177845 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11177848 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11177851 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RC
11184960 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Christian Yelich RC
11184961 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11184962 Baseball 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11184963 Baseball 2013 Bowman Draft Nolan Arenado RC
11184964 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Blue Refractors Mookie Betts
11216917 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Casey Mize
11216919 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Gleyber Torres RC
11216920 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11216921 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Green Ref Nick Schnell
11267305 Football 2018 Panini Prizm Rookie Autographs Prizms Sony Michel
11267321 Football 2018 Leaf Flash Autographs Mason Rudolph
11267324 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best '97 Best Cuts Aaron Judge
11267328 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Nolan Arenado RC
11267331 Hockey 2015-16 Upper Deck Canvas Jack Eichel YG
11304537 Baseball 2018 Panini Phoenix Aqua Clint Frazier
11304539 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Gleyber Torres
11304541 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout
11306163 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Sepia Refractors Mike Trout
11306165 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout
11306166 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout SP
11306168 Baseball 2017 Topps Chrome Update Cody Bellinger RD
11306169 Baseball 2012 Bowman Draft Bryce Harper RC
11334005 Baseball 2018 Topps Opening Day Jack Flaherty RC
11334006 Baseball 2010 Bowman Prospects Anthony Rizzo
11334007 Baseball 2018 Topps Rainbow Foil Harrison Bader
*11334100 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rhys Hoskins RC
*11334101 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rhys Hoskins RC
*11334102 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
*11334103 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
*11334090 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RC
*11334091 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC
*11334093 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rafael Devers RC
*11334095 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trdg Ref Fernando Tatis Jr.
*11334096 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Jo Adell
*11334097 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Jo Adell
Items with asterisks came from Joe's group subs, which were not in his account and thus I cannot personally speak to.


I can personally attest that this data is what I found on Joe Clemons's BGS grading account.

I’d be interested to see how Many cards were 9 and below

[anusinha]

Now that we have numbers, we can do statistical modeling to figure out the confidence interval of whether shenanigans are in place.

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The following are the results of my inquiry into BO Member WJCIII's Beckett account.

First some info: My pledge made to Joe was that I would post only the facts as I saw them and not editorialize. This board, which has factions who both believe and disbelieve Joe's account so far, can come to their own conclusions based on the data. Please note that if I did not make a pledge to Joe that I would remain an unbiased fact-finder in my public postings, then we would not have gotten access to this trove of data. Joe was not under court order to turn it over to me or anyone else, and we certainly would not have received it from Beckett.

Now on to the details. Joe's BGS grading account contained exactly 31 orders, ranging in date from 11/16/18 to 5/8/19. The only order omitted from this tally was the single BCCG order, leaving 30 orders for me to examine.

By my count, those 30 orders contained 767 cards, with 108 of those earning BGS 10 Black Labels. 23 of these 30 were processed by BGS as "Bulk 10-Day Non-Guaranteed" service level, another 6 of these orders were "Ten-Day-Old" service level, and the remaining 2 of these orders were "On-Site Same Day." Each order was both delivered and picked up by Joe in person.

Joe put forth the claim to me that he also had two cards from two groups subs, containing 83 and 120 cards, respectively. From those two group subs, Joe earned 10 additional Black Labels. Furthermore, Joe said his orders are set with a BGS 9.5 minimum grade. He estimated 50 cards did not make the min grade. Therefore, I've included these cards in what I'm calling the unverified totals, which tally to 916 cards with 118 total BGS 10 Black Labels. The 10 Black Labels with asterisks are from the group sub.

Here now is the complete list of all BGS 10 Black Labels found in Joe's account, plus the 10 from the claimed group submission:

10955617 Football 2018 Panini Contenders Draft Picks Game Day Tickets Baker Mayfield
10955619 Football 2018 Panini Contenders Draft Picks Game Day Tickets Sony Michel
10970522 Baseball 2016 Topps Chrome Mike Trout
10970525 Baseball 2017 Topps Archives Derek Jeter Retrospective Derek Jeter/'14 Topps
10978584 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
10988435 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update An International Affair Gleyber Torres
10988437 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RD
10988439 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres
10988440 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres
10988442 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RC
10988445 Baseball 2013 Finest Mike Trout
11014560 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11014562 Baseball 2017 Bowman Chrome Draft Royce Lewis
11014563 Baseball 2018 Topps Walmart Holiday Snowflake Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11014565 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update An International Affair Shohei Ohtani
11014567 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
11014568 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Manny Machado RC
11014570 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RD
11014571 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RD
11014573 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mookie Betts
11014575 Baseball 2018 Topps Update An International Affair Shohei Ohtani
11014577 Baseball 2018 Topps Walmart Holiday Snowflake Shohei Ohtani RC
11014580 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mike Trout
11026495 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mike Trout
11026497 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RD
11026500 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RD
11026501 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Mookie Betts
11027486 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11027504 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Shohei Ohtani
11027506 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Shohei Ohtani
11035489 Baseball 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11043162 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Blue Josh Okogie
11043163 Baseball 2013 Bowman Draft Silver Ice Nolan Arenado
11084358 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Silver Josh Okogie
11084370 Basketball 2018-19 Hoops Luka Doncic RC
11084378 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr.
11084380 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Mike Trout
11084382 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Mookie Betts
11090437 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Jonathan India
11090440 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Silver Wave Jordan Groshans
11090441 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Silver Wave Jordan Groshans
11090443 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Green Refractors Alec Bohm
11090447 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11090448 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Blue Refractors Jarred Kelenic
11090450 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update David Bote RC
11101874 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11101875 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11101877 Baseball 2018 Panini Revolution Mike Trout
11101878 Baseball 2018 Topps Fire Fired Up Mike Trout
11101892 Baseball 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Pink Wave Wander Franco/10
11125838 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Revolution Rookie Revolution Impact Luka Doncic
11125839 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC
11125840 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr.
11125841 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11125842 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Juan Soto
11125843 Baseball 2018 Topps '83 Topps Silver Pack Chrome Green Ref Ronald Acuna Jr.
11125844 Baseball 2017 Bowman Draft Silver Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11125845 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Prospects Ref Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11143122 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Gleyber Torres RC
11143123 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trending Ref Ronald Acuna
11142977 Baseball 2018 Topps Allen and Ginter Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11142989 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trng Ref Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11142993 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trending Ref Ronald Acuna
11142994 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Gleyber Torres RC
11142995 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome X-Fractors Gleyber Torres
11143005 Baseball 2018 Topps Archives Gleyber Torres RC
11143008 Baseball 2018 Topps Allen and Ginter Gleyber Torres RC
11143009 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Gleyber Torres
11143010 Baseball 2017 Bowman Chrome Draft Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11143024 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Pros Refractors Ronald Acuna
11196721 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Refractors Cole Winn
11196723 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Gleyber Torres RC
11196725 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ozzie Albies
11196728 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11196730 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11213231 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Refractors Casey Mize
11177833 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Mike Trout
11177835 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Mike Trout
11177841 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
11177844 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Juan Soto
11177845 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11177848 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11177851 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Shohei Ohtani RC
11184960 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Christian Yelich RC
11184961 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC
11184962 Baseball 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC
11184963 Baseball 2013 Bowman Draft Nolan Arenado RC
11184964 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Blue Refractors Mookie Betts
11216917 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Casey Mize
11216919 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Gleyber Torres RC
11216920 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC
11216921 Baseball 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Green Ref Nick Schnell
11267305 Football 2018 Panini Prizm Rookie Autographs Prizms Sony Michel
11267321 Football 2018 Leaf Flash Autographs Mason Rudolph
11267324 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best '97 Best Cuts Aaron Judge
11267328 Baseball 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Nolan Arenado RC
11267331 Hockey 2015-16 Upper Deck Canvas Jack Eichel YG
11304537 Baseball 2018 Panini Phoenix Aqua Clint Frazier
11304539 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Gleyber Torres
11304541 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout
11306163 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Sepia Refractors Mike Trout
11306165 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout
11306166 Baseball 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout SP
11306168 Baseball 2017 Topps Chrome Update Cody Bellinger RD
11306169 Baseball 2012 Bowman Draft Bryce Harper RC
11334005 Baseball 2018 Topps Opening Day Jack Flaherty RC
11334006 Baseball 2010 Bowman Prospects Anthony Rizzo
11334007 Baseball 2018 Topps Rainbow Foil Harrison Bader
*11334100 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rhys Hoskins RC
*11334101 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rhys Hoskins RC
*11334102 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
*11334103 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Walker Buehler RC
*11334090 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres RC
*11334091 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC
*11334093 Baseball 2018 Topps Chrome Update Rafael Devers RC
*11334095 Baseball 2018 Bowman Chrome Hashtag Bowman Trdg Ref Fernando Tatis Jr.
*11334096 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Jo Adell
*11334097 Baseball 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Jo Adell
Items with asterisks came from Joe's group subs, which were not in his account and thus I cannot personally speak to.


I can personally attest that this data is what I found on Joe Clemons's BGS grading account.

Thanks Dan. How many non black label 10's did he receive? Now some will come on here saying that his % isn't that high, but will neglect to recall that Joe said most of his black labels come from smaller subs and his larger subs consists of those cards he thinks will gem, but not get a black label.

[Blue_Devil]

Originally Posted by pejc300

Don't even start commenting yet until we see all of the data. Just want to make sure it's ALL out there before we start asking questions.

Fair enough

[anusinha]

The black label rate from the group subs seems significantly less than the rate from his personal subs

[Keyser Soze]

So 14% of VERIFIED cards submitted earned Black Label. I'm guessing that's WAY WAY WAY higher than average. Have we determined how many earned non-BL Pristine 10 grade?

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by kyaa

So Joe is grading through a second account. Because I have sub results of cards sold by him dating back to August 2018. That's why they wanted to share this with you--because it's grossly incomplete.

Or, BGS deleted his earlier submission results. One of the two.

This list of Black Labels is inclusive of every last order I saw in that account, excepting for the single BCCG order.