BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading - Page 73

Peties Army · 06-04-2019, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyaa

Well, Brian and some other "defenders" have been trying to set things up as if we all said Joe gets 50% or 60% Black Labels, and that some cards really are so easy to grade, that if Joe "only" has 10% or 20% Black Labels, that shouldn't be cause for concern.

Obviously, that doesn't make sense or address half the suspicious things going on, but that's the narrative they've pushed. So I think this reveal was their attempt to say "just 12% Black Labels--seems reasonable."

Glad so many people are seeing right through the charade.

Charade is a good word that isn’t used enough

pejc300 · 06-04-2019, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auburn35

I don't see any of this "order" on the list you provided today.
Was this incorrectly attributed to Joe or did the order just not show up when you viewed his account?

Honestly everyone, it's just not worth it with the info that was presented to us. It was beyond incomplete and there is no reason for us to do all of the work for Joe when he allegedly was supposed to give SuperDan access. I guess it's worth it but the truth is out there for everyone to see, but trying to make sense of the numbers provide to us is honestly ridiculous because the info simply isn't there.

And no screenshots, mind you.

kyaa · 06-04-2019, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auburn35

I don't see any of this "order" on the list you provided today.
Was this incorrectly attributed to Joe or did the order just not show up when you viewed his account?

SuperDan is the one who found the Woods I believe. Maybe he can look into the Worthpoint info or whatever he found when he has time.

pejc300 · 06-04-2019, 12:13 PM

I don't want to see any more quotes about 14% either - PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A FACTUAL STATEMENT. JOE DOES NOT GET 14% BLACK LABELS. We don't know the true number because the data was not given to us, but only know for certain that it is much higher.

pejc300 · 06-04-2019, 12:14 PM

I WANT TO PUT ON THE RECORD FOR EVERYONE TO SEE THAT BECKETT GRADING SCRUBBED JOE'S SUBMISSION RECORDS.

LET THAT SINK IN.

His records are gone. How does that sit with everyone?

SanAntonioSpurs · 06-04-2019, 12:14 PM

Collusion at it's finest. Nothing to see in this thread except the huge circle jerk going on.

SKI...VT · 06-04-2019, 12:15 PM

I have not commented on this thread to this point.

Here's my simple observation.

What innocent person, in their right mind, would allow their reputation to be completely shredded without fighting with all their might to prove their innocence....NO ONE !

If Joe Clemons has nothing to hide, then why let someone else try and tell your story ? I don't get it.

kyaa · 06-04-2019, 12:15 PM

Well, I've been clear that I believe the results posted are incomplete and have offered some evidence of that in previous posts. To SuperDan, is that really everything you saw? Anthing else you can tell us like service level/turnaround time/cost/order size?

It might be helpful as I try to piece together a more complete history.

P.S. I'm giving myself a break from this for a little while.

Peties Army · 06-04-2019, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pejc300

I WANT TO PUT ON THE RECORD FOR EVERYONE TO SEE THAT BECKETT GRADING SCRUBBED JOE'S SUBMISSION RECORDS.

LET THAT SINK IN.

His records are gone. How does that sit with everyone?

We don’t know that’s what happened yet.

Peties Army · 06-04-2019, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanAntonioSpurs

Collusion at it's finest. Nothing to see in this thread except the huge circle jerk going on.

I do not want to watch a circle jerk

fool me once Shame on you fool me twice and I’m watching a circle jerk again

hche · 06-04-2019, 12:16 PM

LoL.... now we have more questions than answers.

The all famous Tiger black labels are not on the list and there are more not on the list.

Even if we believe that's the whole list, the black label % is still way out of the norm.

Oh well, I am not arguing with anyone. The statistical evidence is enough for me to form my own opinion.

BTW, we know there are law enforcement officials who are collectors. They should frequent message boards. The stuffs BODA uncovered involved millions of dollars and possible frauds. I bet there are federal agents asking their supervisors to open a case on these stuffs. At least, this is worth their time to look into. All the trimming and stuffs. Remember Bill Mastro got 20 months in prison for trimming the T206 and etc.

pejc300 · 06-04-2019, 12:17 PM

Someone tweet this at Rovell:

Former Beckett employee, and personal friend of senior Beckett Grading Services graders, receives astronomically high grading results, netting him hundreds of thousands of dollars. Independent investigator confirms his submission results have been deleted from Beckett Grading database.

Kuch86 · 06-04-2019, 12:17 PM

What a joke!

Even just from the scrubbed subs Dan viewed I'd love to know what the total % of BGS 10 Pristine there were. I'm sure it would look much, much worse if we saw EVERY 10.

This has just made things even more suspicious.

anusinha · 06-04-2019, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

We don’t know that’s what happened yet.

It could be he used s different burner account every few months, just in case something pops up.

The cards not in his list are still in Becketts database right? So its still linked to someone.

pejc300 · 06-04-2019, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

We don’t know that’s what happened yet.

We are left with no alternatives. No one else has their Beckett submissions disappear from their accounts.

notfast · 06-04-2019, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyjankis

Joe graded 203 cards through group subs and received 10 black labels (4.9% BL).

Joe graded 767 through his own account and received 108 black labels (14% BL).

I can believe that the guy with the best eye for grading in the world can pull 5% black labels. I can't get behind 14%.

If we take this info as a fact, it shows Joe has a WAY better eye than most but BGS hooks their friend up.

Pretty much as I expected.

Never will be able to prove Joe has some wink wink nudge nudge payment agreement and honestly I’d lean against that because his BL rate is higher than majority even in group subs.

LEAF · 06-04-2019, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pejc300

I WANT TO PUT ON THE RECORD FOR EVERYONE TO SEE THAT BECKETT GRADING SCRUBBED JOE'S SUBMISSION RECORDS.

LET THAT SINK IN.

His records are gone. How does that sit with everyone?

Beckett website limits data based on number of orders I believe.
My account only shows back to january.
Fact
BG

luckyduck · 06-04-2019, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

We don’t know that’s what happened yet.

I agree. It looks to me like the most plausible reason that a man who appears to be a long-time grader's submissions only goes back to last fall is that his records were scrubbed, but we don't quite know that for sure.

EDIT: If Beckett only keeps a certain number of orders, it looks to me like Joe was submitting small orders (3 cards, 8 cards) in order to make sure older records were deleted.

dizzydolse · 06-04-2019, 12:21 PM

[QUOTE=LEAF;14733588]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pejc300

Brian,

Are you for real? I posted my screenshot of my subs that go way back to when I started grading - 2010 or 2011. Get real.[/QUOTE•]

I just checked the Leaf BGS account and our data only goes back to January.. it may have a limit on number of invoices.. BG

This guy is truly a character. BG, are you intentionally treating us as infants because it may be believable to some or what? It has gotten so laughable that I think you may actually be trolling us now.

Peties Army · 06-04-2019, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAF

Beckett website limits data based on number of orders I believe.
My account only shows back to january.
Fact
BG

We there you go.

As I said, we don’t know that Becket employee scrubbed his a. Lien

Kuch86 · 06-04-2019, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzydolse

This guy is truly a character. BG, are you intentionally treating us as infants because it may be believable to some or what? It has gotten so laughable that I think you may actually be trolling us now.

I will never purchase a LEAF product. I can tell you that much.

stryk · 06-04-2019, 12:23 PM

I just can't get over the fact that the Tiger Woods cards are not included at all? I can't believe anything else when those cards graded January of this year are not in the history.

dizzydolse · 06-04-2019, 12:23 PM

[QUOTE=dizzydolse;14733658]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAF

This guy is truly a character. BG, are you intentionally treating us as infants because it may be believable to some or what? It has gotten so laughable that I think you may actually be trolling us now.

And his post was edited haha

Peties Army · 06-04-2019, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyduck

I agree. It looks to me like the most plausible reason that a man who appears to be a long-time grader's submissions only goes back to last fall is that his records were scrubbed, but we don't quite know that for sure.

If his records were scrubbed, then this is worse then we even thought. There are now a lot of people involved.

pejc300 · 06-04-2019, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAF

Beckett website limits data based on number of orders I believe.
My account only shows back to january.
Fact
BG

Just checked my account. Shows 60 orders dating back to 2013.

06-04-2019, 12:15 PM	#1807
SKI...VT Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Home of the Brave !! Posts: 683 ski...vt	I have not commented on this thread to this point. Here's my simple observation. What innocent person, in their right mind, would allow their reputation to be completely shredded without fighting with all their might to prove their innocence....NO ONE ! If Joe Clemons has nothing to hide, then why let someone else try and tell your story ? I don't get it. __________________ ------------------------------- 'SKI...VT's' FLICKR LINK: https://www.flickr.com/photos/188944223@N07/

06-04-2019, 12:16 PM	#1811
hche Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6,298	LoL.... now we have more questions than answers. The all famous Tiger black labels are not on the list and there are more not on the list. Even if we believe that's the whole list, the black label % is still way out of the norm. Oh well, I am not arguing with anyone. The statistical evidence is enough for me to form my own opinion. BTW, we know there are law enforcement officials who are collectors. They should frequent message boards. The stuffs BODA uncovered involved millions of dollars and possible frauds. I bet there are federal agents asking their supervisors to open a case on these stuffs. At least, this is worth their time to look into. All the trimming and stuffs. Remember Bill Mastro got 20 months in prison for trimming the T206 and etc. __________________ I would ban you but I have no sway or pull here.

06-04-2019, 12:23 PM	#1822
stryk Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Lexington, Ky Posts: 2,076 checkoutmycards-stryk stryk	I just can't get over the fact that the Tiger Woods cards are not included at all? I can't believe anything else when those cards graded January of this year are not in the history. __________________ Always Trading for 2014 Mookie Betts

06-04-2019, 12:13 PM	#1804
pejc300 Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 10,715	I don't want to see any more quotes about 14% either - PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A FACTUAL STATEMENT. JOE DOES NOT GET 14% BLACK LABELS. We don't know the true number because the data was not given to us, but only know for certain that it is much higher.

06-04-2019, 12:14 PM	#1805
pejc300 Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 10,715	I WANT TO PUT ON THE RECORD FOR EVERYONE TO SEE THAT BECKETT GRADING SCRUBBED JOE'S SUBMISSION RECORDS. LET THAT SINK IN. His records are gone. How does that sit with everyone?

06-04-2019, 12:14 PM	#1806
SanAntonioSpurs Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Richmond TX Posts: 1,568 SanAntonioSpurs21 SanAntonioSpurs21	Collusion at it's finest. Nothing to see in this thread except the huge circle jerk going on.

06-04-2019, 12:15 PM	#1808
kyaa Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,498	Well, I've been clear that I believe the results posted are incomplete and have offered some evidence of that in previous posts. To SuperDan, is that really everything you saw? Anthing else you can tell us like service level/turnaround time/cost/order size? It might be helpful as I try to piece together a more complete history. P.S. I'm giving myself a break from this for a little while.

06-04-2019, 12:17 PM	#1812
pejc300 Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 10,715	Someone tweet this at Rovell: Former Beckett employee, and personal friend of senior Beckett Grading Services graders, receives astronomically high grading results, netting him hundreds of thousands of dollars. Independent investigator confirms his submission results have been deleted from Beckett Grading database.

06-04-2019, 12:17 PM	#1813
Kuch86 Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 379 SUTHE49 KUCH86	What a joke! Even just from the scrubbed subs Dan viewed I'd love to know what the total % of BGS 10 Pristine there were. I'm sure it would look much, much worse if we saw EVERY 10. This has just made things even more suspicious.