BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

I’m willing to let Joe go though all of my cards and I will split the sale of every BGS 10 with him, anything less he pays the grading fee. I’m going to retire!!!

He's already going through all of Brian's cards. You'll have to wait.

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[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by hxcmilkshake

He's already going through all of Brian's cards. You'll have to wait.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Lmfao!!!!

[sethc1020]

Wow, $hit just keeps getting deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper!

[pejc300]

PM from Brian Gray in response to my question about Joe selling all of these Leaf Originals 1/1

Since you asked nicely I am happy to add clarity.

60 card set.. each card has 2 1/1's... a gold and a super.. plus all the other parallels..

At the show, you got cards when you opened a specific Leaf product at the booth.

We gave away a little more than half the packs that were made. On the Sunday of the show, we sold remaining packs to a number of people including Tom Fish from Blowout, Joe and more... At least 10 different dealers were offered the chance to buy remaining packs BEFORE Joe was allowed to buy the remaining after those guys took what they wanted.

HOWEVER, I completely agree with the concerns many have with the "appearance" of such transactions.... Therefore, we notified our entire staff today of a new policy that goes into effect immediately.

You may share the below if you wish:

"In response to questions about any cards/cases/etc Leaf may have sold to employees (or others) in the normal course of business in the past, we have reevaluated our policy on this. While we have afforded no employee any benefit that was not previously offered to other customers, we are fully aware that the appearance of favoritism could exist. THEREFORE, AS OF TODAY, LEAF WILL NO LONGER SELL ANY CARDS/CASES OF CARDS/ETC TO EMPLOYEES, THEIR FAMILIES OR ANY RELATED PARTY. Should they wish to be consumers of Leaf products, they will be instructed to visit their local card shop, internet retailer or a distributor. Hopefully, this alleviates any concerns and addresses any concerns our customers may have."

I care about the integrity of our brand and we will do whatever is necessary to preserve that.

BG

[peterose4hof]

Let's say you own a card company like Brian Gray does. It's sort of a fringe company without a lot of licenses to back you up. You create products hoping they will sell out, but some of them flop and you are stuck with pallets of product. What do you do? Dump them in the ocean like Topps circa 1952? Or open what's left and sell off the singles to try and recoup some of your losses?

I always assumed any leftover product that Leaf had was either sold unopened in bulk at a deep discount or sold as singles through various channels. eBay, COMC, card shows etc.

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by pejc300

PM from Brian Gray in response to my question about Joe selling all of these Leaf Originals 1/1

The appearance of impropriety is through the troposphere right now.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by pejc300

PM from Brian Gray in response to my question about Joe selling all of these Leaf Originals 1/1

Lol, oh no biggie. Leaf employees get to “buy” stacked product.....I love how BG makes it’s sound so innocuous.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

Let's say you own a card company like Brian Gray does. It's sort of a fringe company without a lot of licenses to back you up. You create products hoping they will sell out, but some of them flop and you are stuck with pallets of product. What do you do? Dump them in the ocean like Topps circa 1952? Or open what's left and sell off the singles to try and recoup some of your losses?

I always assumed any leftover product that Leaf had was either sold unopened in bulk at a deep discount or sold as singles through various channels. eBay, COMC, card shows etc.

According to Brian EVERYTHING sells out.....

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by pejc300

PM from Brian Gray in response to my question about Joe selling all of these Leaf Originals 1/1

Good. We'll be watching.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

According to Brian EVERYTHING sells out.....

...but at what price?

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

...but at what price?

I’m assuming every time he boasts about a product selling out, which he has done many times before release, that it isn’t discounted. The other side of that is BG is full of crap, and nothing he says should be believed.

[preakness]

as far as I know, this is the only black spot associated with Leaf/Razor/BG

cut some slack

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

Let's say you own a card company like Brian Gray does. It's sort of a fringe company without a lot of licenses to back you up. You create products hoping they will sell out, but some of them flop and you are stuck with pallets of product. What do you do? Dump them in the ocean like Topps circa 1952? Or open what's left and sell off the singles to try and recoup some of your losses?

I always assumed any leftover product that Leaf had was either sold unopened in bulk at a deep discount or sold as singles through various channels. eBay, COMC, card shows etc.

I would have no problem with this. The problem lies in selling your leftover product to your own employees. I would think this would be a no brainer not to do this, because accusations of holding back the good stuff would be rampant, hence why we are are here today.

Because of this thread today Leaf now has a new policy. Blowout - changing the industry one thread a time.

[Cactuspies]

Originally Posted by pejc300

I would have no problem with this. The problem lies in selling your leftover product to your own employees. I would think this would be a no brainer not to do this, because accusations of holding back the good stuff would be rampant, hence why we are are here today.

Because of this thread today Leaf now has a new policy. Blowout - changing the industry one thread a time.

To be fair, he could cut joe loose, though he is a temp/contractor and not real employee based on other posts and then give him a wink wink turn head around & shut eyes bgs black label type of deal discount right?

always a loophole

not one other leaf employee has been accused of anything

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by jr24ai3

Again, he said they were RCR'd 10s already. You always seem to forget to include his answer to that. Put his reason in your reply and say you don't believe it. But he provided an answer to the one day sub.

State both sides of the story instead of just promoting the story you want people to believe

I forgot what post, but he said he doesn't do RCR in a PM to one of the people that contacted him. Don't forget the third side. The one where his story changes.

[kyaa]

Brian, I'm glad that you're instituting changes in response to some of what has emerged in this thread. I was wondering if you'd consider strengthening the policy you just outlined further.

You said, "THEREFORE, AS OF TODAY, LEAF WILL NO LONGER SELL ANY CARDS/CASES OF CARDS/ETC TO EMPLOYEES, THEIR FAMILIES OR ANY RELATED PARTY."

However, there are a couple of other ways cards can go from Leaf to Leaf employees or eBay that people are concerned about:

1) Giving cards directly to employees, families, or related parties. I think people are concerned that you are giving cards to Joe, either as part of his compensation, or so he can sell them and share profits with you/Leaf. So would you be willing to add into the policy that you will also not give cards to employees?

2) Taking cards from products and selling them yourself. Again, I think people are concerned you may be taking some of the best hits from products and selling them on your own, or through Joe, or some other employee or account. Would you be willing to add policy language along the lines of all your products having checklists, and all the cards on those checklists being in packs, and that they will not be given to or sold to Leaf employees, including yourself? Or something along those lines?

If you're concerned about the appearance of impropriety, I think those changes would help reduce the appearance of impropriety as well. Thanks.

[preakness]

At work, members of the admin team aren't allowed to win any of the random appreciation prizes (gift cards, cash, merchandise) for attendance and other reasons just to avoid any speculation of collusion or favoritism.

How does a multi-million dollar company not see that giving perks to Joe, an employer, not a brutal decision?

Proof will never surface that Leaf/BG and Joe were connected somehow to Joe using his influences to getting the BL but if anyone reading this thread doesn't think there's something shady going on, come on

BG already admitted that he did shady stuff back in 2009 but that people should blow it off because time passed and because he grew as a human being

Can only imagine what kind of phones calls/texts/emails have been going back and forth in Texas over the past week

It shouldn't have taken this thread for a company to realize that it's not a good idea to sell/give merchandise to an employee especially one that is also connected to grading services. Such a huge amount of conflict of interest

[dizzydolse]

Originally Posted by pejc300

I would have no problem with this. The problem lies in selling your leftover product to your own employees. I would think this would be a no brainer not to do this, because accusations of holding back the good stuff would be rampant, hence why we are are here today.

Because of this thread today Leaf now has a new policy. Blowout - changing the industry one thread a time.

You actually believe this? The dude just made it up on the spot because he got busted haha. He's the owner of the company, he can make up any ridiculous policy he wants. That doesn't mean it has any credibility whatsoever. Why would any of us trust a new policy from someone so corrupt?

Look at the thread from 2014 that is posted on the first page. These guys have been doing this crap for years and years. "Oops, busted again! Wait, here's a new policy everyone..."

People should stop buying Leaf and acting like its a legitimate company/product. The cards should be absolutely worthless. The fact that people keep assigning value to his crap product is the only thing allowing him to keep doing this stuff.

[Cubsfanp]

Originally Posted by preakness

At work, members of the admin team aren't allowed to win any of the random appreciation prizes (gift cards, cash, merchandise) for attendance and other reasons just to avoid any speculation of collusion or favoritism.

How does a multi-million dollar company not see that giving perks to Joe, an employer, not a brutal decision?

Proof will never surface that Leaf/BG and Joe were connected somehow to Joe using his influences to getting the BL but if anyone reading this thread doesn't think there's something shady going on, come on

BG already admitted that he did shady stuff back in 2009 but that people should blow it off because time passed and because he grew as a human being

Can only imagine what kind of phones calls/texts/emails have been going back and forth in Texas over the past week

It shouldn't have taken this thread for a company to realize that it's not a good idea to sell/give merchandise to an employee especially one that is also connected to grading services. Such a huge amount of conflict of interest

That being said, BG has been responsive and easily accessible though this entire thread. I see that as a positive.

[preakness]

Originally Posted by kyaa

Brian, I'm glad that you're instituting changes in response to some of what has emerged in this thread. I was wondering if you'd consider strengthening the policy you just outlined further.

You said, "THEREFORE, AS OF TODAY, LEAF WILL NO LONGER SELL ANY CARDS/CASES OF CARDS/ETC TO EMPLOYEES, THEIR FAMILIES OR ANY RELATED PARTY."

However, there are a couple of other ways cards can go from Leaf to Leaf employees or eBay that people are concerned about:

1) Giving cards directly to employees, families, or related parties. I think people are concerned that you are giving cards to Joe, either as part of his compensation, or so he can sell them and share profits with you/Leaf. So would you be willing to add into the policy that you will also not give cards to employees?

2) Taking cards from products and selling them yourself. Again, I think people are concerned you may be taking some of the best hits from products and selling them on your own, or through Joe, or some other employee or account. Would you be willing to add policy language along the lines of all your products having checklists, and all the cards on those checklists being in packs, and that they will not be given to or sold to Leaf employees, including yourself? Or something along those lines?

If you're concerned about the appearance of impropriety, I think those changes would help reduce the appearance of impropriety as well. Thanks.

Back in the day, when Razor/Leaf supposedly packed out redemptions for USA baseball jerseys, only 2 (TWO!) surfaced and both were marginal guys. I have had them on ebay search and paid attention to various message boards where the items were busted for years but only two surfaced. Not long after, a bunch of the actual stars' jerseys popped up on BG's ebay page. There was no denial. Just comments that it's my business and I can do what I want.

BG, please stop PM'ing me.
Mods, please make sure BG stops PM'ing me

Thanks

I'm done posting since my post count is a palindrome and I want to keep it that way

[ksemmel]

Originally Posted by preakness

At work, members of the admin team aren't allowed to win any of the random appreciation prizes (gift cards, cash, merchandise) for attendance and other reasons just to avoid any speculation of collusion or favoritism.

How does a multi-million dollar company not see that giving perks to Joe, an employer, not a brutal decision?

Proof will never surface that Leaf/BG and Joe were connected somehow to Joe using his influences to getting the BL but if anyone reading this thread doesn't think there's something shady going on, come on

BG already admitted that he did shady stuff back in 2009 but that people should blow it off because time passed and because he grew as a human being

Can only imagine what kind of phones calls/texts/emails have been going back and forth in Texas over the past week

It shouldn't have taken this thread for a company to realize that it's not a good idea to sell/give merchandise to an employee especially one that is also connected to grading services. Such a huge amount of conflict of interest

Agreed. I used to work at an sports memorabilia company that ran and I was not even allowed to place a bid on an item I wanted/collected.

[dizzydolse]

Originally Posted by kyaa

Brian, I'm glad that you're instituting changes in response to some of what has emerged in this thread. I was wondering if you'd consider selling your company immediately and moving to the outskirts of the Sahara desert. Thanks.

Fixed

[rebbrooks]

Originally Posted by preakness

Back in the day, when Razor/Leaf supposedly packed out redemptions for USA baseball jerseys, only 2 (TWO!) surfaced and both were marginal guys. I have had them on ebay search and paid attention to various message boards where the items were busted for years but only two surfaced. Not long after, a bunch of the actual stars' jerseys popped up on BG's ebay page. There was no denial. Just comments that it's my business and I can do what I want.

BG, please stop PM'ing me.
Mods, please make sure BG stops PM'ing me

Thanks

I'm done posting since my post count is a palindrome and I want to keep it that way

Report his pm's to the mods. That way they know.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by pejc300

I would have no problem with this. The problem lies in selling your leftover product to your own employees. I would think this would be a no brainer not to do this, because accusations of holding back the good stuff would be rampant, hence why we are are here today.

Because of this thread today Leaf now has a new policy. Blowout - changing the industry one thread a time.

Similar response from Beckett....

[Kuch86]

Originally Posted by preakness

At work, members of the admin team aren't allowed to win any of the random appreciation prizes (gift cards, cash, merchandise) for attendance and other reasons just to avoid any speculation of collusion or favoritism.

How does a multi-million dollar company not see that giving perks to Joe, an employer, not a brutal decision?

Proof will never surface that Leaf/BG and Joe were connected somehow to Joe using his influences to getting the BL but if anyone reading this thread doesn't think there's something shady going on, come on

BG already admitted that he did shady stuff back in 2009 but that people should blow it off because time passed and because he grew as a human being

Can only imagine what kind of phones calls/texts/emails have been going back and forth in Texas over the past week

It shouldn't have taken this thread for a company to realize that it's not a good idea to sell/give merchandise to an employee especially one that is also connected to grading services. Such a huge amount of conflict of interest

There is NO reason to believe anything he says. Actions always speak louder than words. He should not be given the benefit of the doubt on anything. The fact he didn't have protocols in place to prevent employees from acquiring cards directly from LEAF tells you all you need to know about this guy.