NYT: "Retouching Mona Lisa Is Restoration, but a Mickey Mantle? Collectors Cry Fraud"

[JeremyNick]

I for one really have no issue with the concept of restoration. It would be great for the collecting hobby to embrace this. In fact I think it would go a long way to preserving some of these amazing cards in poorer conditions. However in other hobbies I have, such as gun collecting, restoration has a place, is embraced, but is not for everyone and is advertised as such. What Mr Huigens is doing is fraud, not conservation. If he were to advertise his cards as such, have it done in a professional manner and even graded in that way, there would be value to these cards and it would not be a scam. Though right now, it's simply a scam to make money, not another avenue of collecting.

[trmpetyjo]

next on Sports Center with Keith Oberman

[actionbryan]

yesterday at the LCS, instead of a box of 2019 series 2 hobby OR jumbo, I bought a box of hobby AND jumbo, because I'm a baller and I post on these boards. So author can shove it.



JK , good work bo posters for helping the hobby.

[base set]

I like how the article reveals that baseball card collectors really do come from all walks of life ... grubby environmental services contractors ... stock brokers ... doctors ... lawyers ... Federal Law Enforcement officers ... prosecutors ...

[sjorgen5]

Incredible! Very well done work from the BO community to help get this in the spotlight.

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by BoxBreaker72

PWCC is untouchable. Should have been eradicated long ago.

If this doesn't do it, nothing will.

PWCC will thrive as long as people keep consigning their cards with them. They are still making millions in sales commission. They will take a hit only when collectors stop using them. I hope I am wrong...

[rutgersjpm]

Originally Posted by superdan49

I think it was actually worse for PSA. Gary Moser attacked their credibility, and Joe Orlando did not offer a response.

It kinda bothers me that this part was even published. When someone with zero credibility attacks the credibility of others, it shouldn't be published in the New York Times.

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by rutgersjpm

It kinda bothers me that this part was even published. When someone with zero credibility attacks the credibility of others, it shouldn't be published in the New York Times.

PSA charges $5000 to grade a high end card and yet the graders fail to identify altered cards. I think that is what they are eluding to. PSA is doing a bad job and Moser used it to is advantage. Both of them are guilty imo

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by rutgersjpm

It kinda bothers me that this part was even published. When someone with zero credibility attacks the credibility of others, it shouldn't be published in the New York Times.

That’s his defense. The reader has to weigh its merits.

I’m glad he got to share his position. Makes him look bad imo.

[bradical]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

Haha, most super-collectors (Ken Kendrick, Nat Turner, etc) are not here though. It is small collectors like us who are active here

Nat is on here quite a bit:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/member.php?u=26778

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by bradical

Nat is on here quite a bit:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/member.php?u=26778

Thanks. I did not know until now that Nat is on BO. I am not in the Basketball section that often and looks like he does not post regularly

[Vintagecollect]

Originally Posted by trmpetyjo

next on Sports Center with Keith Oberman

I had thought about reaching out. Not sure if he is back/in good graces with them

[boston12]

Do you think PSA spends any more time on a $5,000 grading charge vs $20 ? Serious question. I know Beckett has its own issues but I’m disgusted that they get $5,000 for some cards

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by boston12

Do you think PSA spends any more time on a $5,000 grading charge vs $20 ? Serious question. I know Beckett has its own issues but I’m disgusted that they get $5,000 for some cards

I don't know if they do or not (I'm guessing they actually do) but a big part of that increased fee is related to the guaranty portion of their grading. Should someone make a claim (either from damage or from an alteration) on a card of that value, their exposure is much higher. I personally don't have an issue with the higher fees for higher card values. BGS fees on higher values cards are so low because you get zero guaranty from them.

[pcptrade]

FWIW, I was told by a PSA rep that each and every high end card is graded by two independent graders. If it is true, then it is even more shocking to see altered cards not being identified by PSA graders. Not sure if Beckett uses the same policy (two independent graders for high end cards).

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

FWIW, I was told by a PSA rep that each and every high end card is graded by two independent graders. If it is true, then it is even more shocking to see altered cards not being identified by PSA graders. Not sure if Beckett uses the same policy (two independent graders for high end cards).

PSA does have a lot of service levels. Were you told by the PSA rep which service level the two reviewer kicks in at? Most of the cards that have been exposed are at the Super Express level or lower. I'd be surprised if this value level includes the two person review.

[Rooftop]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

FWIW, I was told by a PSA rep that each and every high end card is graded by two independent graders. If it is true, then it is even more shocking to see altered cards not being identified by PSA graders. Not sure if Beckett uses the same policy (two independent graders for high end cards).

You do realize the first ever card graded by PSA was altered.

[Morgoth]

Part of my job is crisis management and I sure wouldn't be having a luncheon with my biggest customers at the MET while my world was burning down. I would be working to resolve all of these issues, give customers their money back if they wanted it and trying to restore my companies name.

This shows how big of a concern this is to PWCC.

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by dmanrico

PSA does have a lot of service levels. Were you told by the PSA rep which service level the two reviewer kicks in at? Most of the cards that have been exposed are at the Super Express level or lower. I'd be surprised if this value level includes the two person review.

This was when I submitted a Lebron Jordan dual Auto last year. I bought it for $1800 and thus submitted it as EXPRESS (Maximum declared value of $1,999). The grading fee at that time was $50 ($75 currently). Not sure at what service level the two reviewers kick in. I am assuming it is for cards worth more than $499 but I could be wrong.

[asujbl]

Is this where we talk about CLCT stock being up today?

I'm kidding... I'm just joking based on prior threads where some people, clearly many that don't understand the market, were saying the collapse of Collectors Universe was happening that particular day when the stock went down.

Carry on.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Is this where we talk about CLCT stock being up today?

I'm kidding... I'm just joking based on prior threads where some people, clearly many that don't understand the market, were saying the collapse of Collectors Universe was happening that particular day when the stock went down.

Carry on.

If only it were that simple to make money trading securities.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

Part of my job is crisis management and I sure wouldn't be having a luncheon with my biggest customers at the MET while my world was burning down. I would be working to resolve all of these issues, give customers their money back if they wanted it and trying to restore my companies name.

This shows how big of a concern this is to PWCC.

I think it was more of a PR stunt by Brent than anything else. It makes him look like he's involved in the preservation of the rich history and tradition of the blah, blah, blah. At least that's how I think the average NYT reader will interpret it.

Brent is trying to act cool because he's cooperating with authorities and he thinks that means he's going to be off the hook. He's digging his own grave because his ego is so big he can't see around it. I can't wait to see how this turns out for him.

Arthur

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by dmanrico

I don't know if they do or not (I'm guessing they actually do) but a big part of that increased fee is related to the guaranty portion of their grading. Should someone make a claim (either from damage or from an alteration) on a card of that value, their exposure is much higher. I personally don't have an issue with the higher fees for higher card values. BGS fees on higher values cards are so low because you get zero guaranty from them.

If I bought what I thought was a legit raw 52 Mantle in great shape and paid to grade it, does PSA refund the grading fees if it's determined to be fake?

[jmeryllman]

Yes! This is awesome! They named names! Start drawing the line on the sand, and start pointing fingers. People need to get Mastro'ed!

[metsandweezer]

We’re all big time. Congrats everyone, but the main people on these forums that figured out all these trimmed cards deserved to be recognized in the article.