The Zion effect in the hobby

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

Am I the only person who thinks Zion's best-case is Charles Barkley, worst-case is Anthony Bennett, but hobby-wise will settle in as a bigger Blake Griffin with a worse shot?

He'll be on ESPN a lot, so is Blake, but it doesn't translate to $$$ in the hobby especially in New Orleans.

Blake has what, a $500 NT RPA?

Steph Curry has a $20k+ NT RPA?

Seems like a bad investment compared to Doncic.

The Barkley comparison doesn't seem off... and honestly, if he wind up being Barkley, that'd be a great career.

Can't see him being Anthony Bennett though, he's way too skilled. Bennett wasn't a Greg Oden thing where injuries ruined him or anything; he was just bad.

[davechappelle]

I'm ready to buy underrated superstars.. as money will be thrown to Zion.

[dylan]

Originally Posted by tjforce

The Barkley comparison doesn't seem off... and honestly, if he wind up being Barkley, that'd be a great career.

Can't see him being Anthony Bennett though, he's way too skilled. Bennett wasn't a Greg Oden thing where injuries ruined him or anything; he was just bad.

Not when it was released.... Blake was well over 20k

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by dylan

Not when it was released.... Blake was well over 20k

How does that relate to what I said?

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by tjforce

The Barkley comparison doesn't seem off... and honestly, if he wind up being Barkley, that'd be a great career.

Can't see him being Anthony Bennett though, he's way too skilled. Bennett wasn't a Greg Oden thing where injuries ruined him or anything; he was just bad.

i know Barkley is a TV Character to most current NBA fans, but man he was so damn good

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Blake's his rookie years were a lot more than they are now (like many players)

Zion has a lot of hype to live up to, we can all agree there.

Was about to say the same

Griffin NT RPA was a 5 figure card back in the day

[NoleinJax]

Am I the only one who thinks Zion will be a good player, but not a superstar level player?

[dasiegel]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

i know Barkley is a TV Character to most current NBA fans, but man he was so damn good

I don't think people really understand just how good he was. As a Sixer he was an explosive scorer and rebounder. I remember being a Ewing fan it would frustrate me as a kid, reading the stat leaders in the newspapers (remember those?) Barkley would always be above him in both a 6'5."

As a Sun, he was still amazing at both but learned to trust his teammates more and had more success.

If he had played with any A list star he would have had multiple titles. But like Ewing, Reggie, Nique and a few other stars, he was only part of just very good teams with balance.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Was about to say the same

Griffin NT RPA was a 5 figure card back in the day

2.5-3k for base /99

3-4k for gold /25

By all star weekend's dunk contest. I sold plenty. Mind you this was back in '08. Those were stupid figures for an rpa at the time. I'm expecting the same trajectory this year.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

2.5-3k for base /99

3-4k for gold /25

By all star weekend's dunk contest. I sold plenty. Mind you this was back in '08. Those were stupid figures for an rpa at the time. I'm expecting the same trajectory this year.

I feel like it was way more than that. I'm old though so who knows.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by asujbl

I feel like it was way more than that. I'm old though so who knows.

May have been a few outliers but those were the averages. I bought and sold around 7. Prices never recovered after that all star break, I think because once Griffin shed the nightly high flying antics, the hobby stopped caring.

Lob City in 2009 was a damn fun thing to watch.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

May have been a few outliers but those were the averages. I bought and sold around 7. Prices never recovered after that all star break, I think because once Griffin shed the nightly high flying antics, the hobby stopped caring.

Lob City in 2009 was a damn fun thing to watch.

Interesting. Shows how good my memory is.

I remember people paying $2,000 (I sold one for this) on Sam Bradford NT RPA's trying to get the next Blake Griffin in another sport.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Interesting. Shows how good my memory is.

I remember people paying $2,000 (I sold one for this) on Sam Bradford NT RPA's trying to get the next Blake Griffin in another sport.

Bradford was the Andrew Luck syndrome. So much generational hype, then people who bought high refusing to take a major loss for years.

Blakes NT's started the year at 500-750 so the returns on a 4 month investment were huge. But he also missed the first year to injury so that suppressed his beginning '09 prices and took a lot of people by surprise. Zion's will be insanely high out the gate.

Blake went onto become a much better overall player, but not the 2 way point forward that commands top hobby dollar.

It'll be interesting to see which way Zion's career progresses. He has much better fluidity in his moves and better handles than Blake has ever had. And his defense is as good as his offense. I still think he could be top 5-7 in the next 2 to 3 years in terms of his talent and team impact.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by tjforce

The Barkley comparison doesn't seem off... and honestly, if he wind up being Barkley, that'd be a great career.

Can't see him being Anthony Bennett though, he's way too skilled. Bennett wasn't a Greg Oden thing where injuries ruined him or anything; he was just bad.

Based on just hustle and heart alone that will make him better then Bennett. Barkley and Griffin are good comparison's though.

We'll just have to wait and see. It definitely will be hard to live up to the level of hype that has been building.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by dasiegel

I don't think people really understand just how good he was. As a Sixer he was an explosive scorer and rebounder. I remember being a Ewing fan it would frustrate me as a kid, reading the stat leaders in the newspapers (remember those?) Barkley would always be above him in both a 6'5."

As a Sun, he was still amazing at both but learned to trust his teammates more and had more success.

If he had played with any A list star he would have had multiple titles. But like Ewing, Reggie, Nique and a few other stars, he was only part of just very good teams with balance.

It was definitely tough back then to win a title if you weren't LA, Boston, Detroit, or later Chicago. They won almost every title over a 20 year span or it seemed like it anyway.

[Josie27]

Just think if he was on a college team with I dunno, maybe 2 other Top 10 picks. Throw in a teammate picked in the top 3 and wow would that National Championship have been a sure thing! Hell, maybe even a perfect season. Too bad Duke has trouble filling their roster with pure 5 stars. They would be so good if Coach K just had the on-court talent! I mean it's not like they would get bounced in the Elite Eight or damn near get bounced in the 2nd round...

But all kidding aside what makes Zion different than someone like Blake Griffin? Blake is an insane athlete and turned himself into a hell of an all around player.

Oh, and force Zion RIGHT. He all lefty.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Josie27

Just think if he was on a college team with I dunno, maybe 2 other Top 10 picks. Throw in a teammate picked in the top 3 and wow would that National Championship have been a sure thing! Hell, maybe even a perfect season. Too bad Duke has trouble filling their roster with pure 5 stars. They would be so good if Coach K just had the on-court talent! I mean it's not like they would get bounced in the Elite Eight or damn near get bounced in the 2nd round...

But all kidding aside what makes Zion different than someone like Blake Griffin? Blake is an insane athlete and turned himself into a hell of an all around player.

Oh, and force Zion RIGHT. He all lefty.

I dunno. Maybe the fact Zion actually plays defense...very well.

[Rucchin]

Don’t know what you guys are talking about but I’ve been snapping up all the great Zion rookies on eBay!

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1301942

Investment auction!

[brettmik59]

Vince Carter was huge for awhile even before developing much of an outside game. Zion will be similar, but I'm not sure he'll ever become as proficient from the field as Vince, and he has a fatter body type similar to the Zach Randolph's of the world. It'll be interesting to watch. His card prices will start out ridiculously high, setting a bar nearly impossible to reach unless he's Lebron 2.0.

[ninjacookies]

It's a shame most have gotten caught up with the media generalizations far too much to actually appreciate Zion's overall skillset. It's either 'he's fat' (which I'd wager good money he has less body fat than James Harden...he's solid just really thick) or all he can do is dunk.

He was drafted first overall because he was the best 2 way player in college basketball, and nobody else was close.

While guys like RJ and Morant have the upside to be a triple double machines like Westbrook, how much does that really mean in the hobby where triple doubles are becoming the new double doubles?

Now ask yourself: how many current players in the NBA are/were true 2 way players (who just happen to be the top $$ money guys in the hobby)?

-Lebron
-Kawhi
-KD
-AD
-Giannis

The only outlier is Steph Curry. But that's only because he was a game changer and the best shooter in the history of the game. Defense gets a pass.

There's a reason why it's such a short list. Most can be pretty good at one, but not great at both ends of the floor. Takes God given physical gifts, a crazy elite motor, and excellent natural instincts.

Nobody ever touted Vince or Blake Griffin for their awesome defense or being able to consistently shut down a game on that end of the floor. Great offensive guys and fun to watch? Yeah. But not in that top 3 percentile of gifted players.

Even Luka is a defensive liability.

It's lofty expectations, but if Zion can do exactly what he did in college dominating both ends of the floor, it's going to continue translating to his cards and put him in elite territory.

Defense isn't exactly the most exciting thing to watch for most, but it's 50% of the equation when evaluating how good a player truly is.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

It's a shame most have gotten caught up with the media generalizations far too much to actually appreciate Zion's overall skillset. It's either 'he's fat' (which I'd wager good money he has less body fat than James Harden...he's solid just really thick) or all he can do is dunk.

He was drafted first overall because he was the best 2 way player in college basketball, and nobody else was close.

While guys like RJ and Morant have the upside to be a triple double machines like Westbrook, how much does that really mean in the hobby where triple doubles are becoming the new double doubles?

Now ask yourself: how many current players in the NBA are/were true 2 way players (who just happen to be the top $$ money guys in the hobby)?

-Lebron
-Kawhi
-KD
-AD
-Giannis

The only outlier is Steph Curry. But that's only because he was a game changer and the best shooter in the history of the game. Defense gets a pass.

There's a reason why it's such a short list. Most can be pretty good at one, but not great at both ends of the floor. Takes God given physical gifts, a crazy elite motor, and excellent natural instincts.

Nobody ever touted Vince or Blake Griffin for their awesome defense or being able to consistently shut down a game on that end of the floor. Great offensive guys and fun to watch? Yeah. But not in that top 3 percentile of gifted players.

Even Luka is a defensive liability.

It's lofty expectations, but if Zion can do exactly what he did in college dominating both ends of the floor, it's going to continue translating to his cards and put him in elite territory.

Defense isn't exactly the most exciting thing to watch for most, but it's 50% of the equation when evaluating how good a player truly is.

Not sure if I’m understanding... is this a full list of true 2 way players in the nba or is there some other qualifier I’m missing?

[RogerGodahell]

Only time will tell if he can be as good as LeBron. I mean that is currently about where the hype is at right now. I'm not saying he can't be that good but the odds are against him.

What type of season will Zion need to have his rookie season in order to live up to the hype? 20+ PPG, 8 reb, 6 assists? And be dominant on defense?

I feel like anything less then that and people will think he's underachieved.

The bar has been set pretty high.

[Dnic]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

It's a shame most have gotten caught up with the media generalizations far too much to actually appreciate Zion's overall skillset. It's either 'he's fat' (which I'd wager good money he has less body fat than James Harden...he's solid just really thick) or all he can do is dunk.

He was drafted first overall because he was the best 2 way player in college basketball, and nobody else was close.

While guys like RJ and Morant have the upside to be a triple double machines like Westbrook, how much does that really mean in the hobby where triple doubles are becoming the new double doubles?

Now ask yourself: how many current players in the NBA are/were true 2 way players (who just happen to be the top $$ money guys in the hobby)?

-Lebron
-Kawhi
-KD
-AD
-Giannis

The only outlier is Steph Curry. But that's only because he was a game changer and the best shooter in the history of the game. Defense gets a pass.

There's a reason why it's such a short list. Most can be pretty good at one, but not great at both ends of the floor. Takes God given physical gifts, a crazy elite motor, and excellent natural instincts.

Nobody ever touted Vince or Blake Griffin for their awesome defense or being able to consistently shut down a game on that end of the floor. Great offensive guys and fun to watch? Yeah. But not in that top 3 percentile of gifted players.

Even Luka is a defensive liability.

It's lofty expectations, but if Zion can do exactly what he did in college dominating both ends of the floor, it's going to continue translating to his cards and put him in elite territory.

Defense isn't exactly the most exciting thing to watch for most, but it's 50% of the equation when evaluating how good a player truly is.

Yes in college he dominated now he is going to play with real men highly doubt he dominates now, time will tell he should be a good player but great idk about that. Also in terms of the hobby Pelicans need to reach the playoffs in order for his stuff to hold the inflated prices and I highly doubt the Pelicans make the playoffs

[boxbreak]

Luka will end up the better player easily.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Dnic

Yes in college he dominated now he is going to play with real men highly doubt he dominates now, time will tell he should be a good player but great idk about that. Also in terms of the hobby Pelicans need to reach the playoffs in order for his stuff to hold the inflated prices and I highly doubt the Pelicans make the playoffs

Your guess is as good as mine or anyone else's.

However, I think the college argument is weak. He faced who was placed before him. Just like all of his college peers. But none of them dominated the way he did. What were they supposed to do...put nba players in college unis?


I keep making the comparison: but I see him as Draymond Green on God Mode. Last I checked, Dray isn't a hare over 6'7 and has been one of the best defensive players in the league despite not having a 10th of Zion's athleticism. You don't have to be 7 feet tall to be a defensive force. Ask young Lebron/CP3 or Kawhi.

We'll see.