More Altered Vintage Up For Sale from PWCC (Mathewson, Appling, Cobb)

[3124508 on COMC]

Card was first sold by PWCC graded.

http://www.vintagecardprices.com/car...5&w=527&h=1007
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1512041
Current listing: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2040385



Card was first sold by PWCC graded.

http://www.vintagecardprices.com/car...46&w=237&h=520
Current Listing: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2041401






"Light corner wear and a tiny factory issued paper flaw on the back in the fielding average stat box is all we can see to downgrade."

"Factory issued"

http://www.vintagecardprices.com/car...71&w=856&h=685
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1651816
Current listing: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2056574






Reposting this active auction here as well:

Originally Posted by superdan49

PSA Cert #:26614519

1911 T3 Turkey Red #9 Ty Cobb PSA Authentic-Altered to PSA 2
Alteration types: Scuffing card to mask marks, reformed corner

Sold on 12/5/2014 as a PSA Authentic-Altered by Greg Bussineau Auctions to an unknown buyer for $1,260.00
Consigned to PWCC and currently for sale in their 2019 Premier Auction #7



This T3 Cobb Cabinet card was once deemed altered by PSA. The card doctor has cracked it out and added scuffing where the letter "O" was colored in the words "COBB" and "DETROIT." Also, the card doctor has added extra fraying to the lower right front corner perhaps to make the wear look more natural. The odd wavy pattern in the gray border next to the lower right corner may be marks on the PSA holder, or some form of purposely added damage to the card itself by the card doctor. I am not sure.

This card demonstrates that you have to take great caution with any vintage item in PWCC's inventory even now.


PSA AUTH-Altered: http://www.vintagecardprices.com/car...&w=2052&h=3227
PSA 2: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2040679

And another:

Originally Posted by corndog

This card is from a recent submission to PSA.


PSA Cert #43561024

1932 U.S. Caramel Ty Cobb #14

This card is a current live auction listing on Ebay by PWCC. The PSA cert # is 12 numerical digits away from the Hank Aaron listing above. These cards are part of the same submission to PSA. The Aaron is a confirmed Moser ID purchase from PWCC and the REA purchaser is unknown.

The current listing was given a PWCC sticker.

This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Robert Edwards Auctions (REA) as a PSA-4 on October 28, 2018 for $2,400.00. VCP link:



Same card is a current live auction by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA-4 (no change) . Ebay link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1932-U-S-Caramel-Ty-Cobb-14-PSA-4-VGEX-PWCC-A/143319263345?hash=item215e7e6871:g9EAAOSwKgZdHlOs

Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers.
The card is noticeably cleaner now and corners have been repaired.

[ThoseBackPages]

[Wiseguy917]

More PSA incompetence. Keep grading guys lol

[ThoseBackPages]

#OneDayCloserToThat1952Topps311

[corndog]

Isn't that first one a Moser altered card?

I thought PWCC stated that they were no longer working with him???

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by corndog

Isn't that first one a Moser altered card?

I thought PWCC stated that they were no longer working with him???

It's a revolving door of Moser cards. Sold already a few years back via PWCC.

[MoreToppsPlease]

With these egregious card alterations taking place for many years, one can’t help but wonder if their books have been “altered” as well.

PWCC is an excellent audit candidate.

Everyone’s tired of seeing all these great cards being permanently wrecked with no end in sight.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

More PSA incompetence. Keep grading guys lol

The actual card doesn’t matter for many of the grading guys.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

The actual card doesn’t matter for many of the grading guys.

Unfortunately I believe this is correct. There really are folks who collect the number on the slabs.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Unfortunately I believe this is correct. There really are folks who collect the number on the slabs.

Yes, this is very true

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

More PSA incompetence. Keep grading guys lol

Notice how the PSA and PWCC white knights have been eerily quiet?

[base set]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Unfortunately I believe this is correct. There really are folks who collect the number on the slabs.

That’s what grading does. It lets everyone, and I mean everyone, in on the action generated by artificial scarcity, not just Topps. People frequently say buy the card not the grade, and routinely wish people would quit paying so much for low population cards.

But how is a low pop vintage card any different from a freshly manufactured /x refractor Bowman Chrome auto? Why is a Red worth so much more than an Orange? Is the color red inherently that much more popular than the color orange?

I think PWCCs Vault idea illustrates this perfectly, and is akin to other (largely failed) attempts to turn cards into stocks listed on an exchange. Why bother having the card in-hand, with all that hassle and risk? What is really being collected is lines on a spreadsheet; a recent thread with all the normal talk around a great pull of a semi-rare card and its grading result (2 dozen responses)- didn’t even include a picture of the card. Did what is on the card matter at all? Nope.

Grading supplies 2 things - outside validation of one’s decisions, and the ego gratification of owning something only /x-1 other people can own. It puts a quantifiable /x on every single card. Demand for those 2 services will remain insatiable.

[TarjetasBéisbol]

Originally Posted by Big35Hurt

Notice how the PSA and PWCC white knights have been eerily quiet?

What a joke, and I’m sure this will only get worse. The thing is that nothing will be done about all this crap, they’ll stay silent and act like everything is ok.

[3124508 on COMC]

"Light corner wear and a tiny factory issued paper flaw on the back in the fielding average stat box is all we can see to downgrade."

"Factory issued"

http://www.vintagecardprices.com/car...71&w=856&h=685
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1651816
Current listing: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2056574

[mjohnatgt]

Paper loss like that usually gets hit harder than a VG-EX+ by PSA. Had a light wrinkle the last year. Was it pressed out in attempt to get a 6 or so, and the paper loss was an accident or a failed touch-up?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by base set

That’s what grading does. It lets everyone, and I mean everyone, in on the action generated by artificial scarcity, not just Topps. People frequently say buy the card not the grade, and routinely wish people would quit paying so much for low population cards.



But how is a low pop vintage card any different from a freshly manufactured /x refractor Bowman Chrome auto? Why is a Red worth so much more than an Orange? Is the color red inherently that much more popular than the color orange?



I think PWCCs Vault idea illustrates this perfectly, and is akin to other (largely failed) attempts to turn cards into stocks listed on an exchange. Why bother having the card in-hand, with all that hassle and risk? What is really being collected is lines on a spreadsheet; a recent thread with all the normal talk around a great pull of a semi-rare card and its grading result (2 dozen responses)- didn’t even include a picture of the card. Did what is on the card matter at all? Nope.



Grading supplies 2 things - outside validation of one’s decisions, and the ego gratification of owning something only /x-1 other people can own. It puts a quantifiable /x on every single card. Demand for those 2 services will remain insatiable.

A low pop card is different from a low numbered card in that a low pop card may not stay a low pop card as more cards are submitted. In other words, more cards with a high grade may be added...or created...over time, meaning low pop may not stay low pop.

In any event, it’s truly amazing how graded cards have been marketed, and how effective that marketing campaign has been.

But a low numbered card offers the same ego gratification as a low pop card, right?

Edit: couldn’t a registry for low numbered, non-graded cards be created?

[superdan49]

I wonder which factory that '56 Mantle flaw was issued in, the one in Long Island, suburban Portland, or Los Angeles county?

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by Big35Hurt

Notice how the PSA and PWCC white knights have been eerily quiet?

With all due respect, this is just weak. I haven't seen any of your supposed "white knights" in like a month, at least. I think in the beginning, a lot of people couldn't fathom the scope of this and we were just seeing dozens of cards. I was one of those people. I had a healthy amount, not of skepticism but just doubt that what we were looking at was as widespread as it is. I think that's a fairly healthy reaction. The three guys knew more than what had been released so they knew how bad it was but the rest of us didn't. And if you say you did then you have a particularly craven way of looking at humanity.

Obviously, now, or more aptly, many weeks ago, seeing everything that's come to light, nobody without ulterior motives is making up excuses for PWCC or PSA. I haven't seen that on here in quite a long time. So your comment just rings hollow. Unless you're just looking for an "atta boy" pat on the back for some comment you made 5-6 weeks ago. In which case, way to go, you did it.

Arthur

[pejc300]

Has anyone reached out to PWCC Regarding these cards? I realize It probably doesn’t matter and they have no credibility at all, but they used to at least reply to these and say they were taking them down. Does anyone even bother contacting them anymore?

[3124508 on COMC]

PWCC continues to be the joke of all jokes.


From the consignor if the altered PSA 2 Cobb T3:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80
After discussion with Brent we have agreed to let the auction continue. The following has been added to the description. I understand this is not what some of you would like to see but I feel it's a reasonable solution and discloses both the alteration and the fact that the card was bumped from it's previous holder.

*****NOTICE*****



After the time of listing it has been noticed that this card shows two faint eraser marks in the "o" of Cobb and Detroit on the bottom name plate. This detail was not included in the original description, so it is be disclosed now. Additionally, at the request of the submitter we would like to disclose that this same card was previously graded Authentic-Altered (PSA serial number 23331183). In our opinion the current grade of a 'Good 2' appears completely appropriate. Please bid accordingly.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

PWCC continues to be the joke of all jokes.


From the consignor if the altered PSA 2 Cobb T3:

You have to scroll to the absolute bottom of the listing and pass all of the boilerplate content of PWCC. And once again Brent justifies the grade as a 2 despite the evidence presented.


Interesting that when Brent was asked about why he could not amend the description of the 52 Topps Mantle that was altered he states here https://youtu.be/_f3k5VSqVt4?t=1680 just after the 28 minute mark that he cannot edit description of a live auction and that ebay will not permit him to edit a description of a live auction. Brent likes to have his cake and eat it too. A perpetual liar.

[pspa123]

Brent never fails, it seems, to do the wrong thing. I guess it's too ingrained in him.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

PWCC continues to be the joke of all jokes.


From the consignor if the altered PSA 2 Cobb T3:

Altered = 0 grade, not a 2 grade, Brent.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Altered = 0 grade, not a 2 grade, Brent.

I think Betsy would’ve understood that. Maybe she should
take over?

[3124508 on COMC]

Well, it sounds like the sharpest minds in the Pacific Northwest got together and decided to pull the listing.