MUST READ TRIMMING THREAD: COMC- HawkDynasty,cccardfactory,LORDSTANLEY2012|PWCC|ih8ca - Page 16

rebbrooks · 08-26-2019, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

It better not be the same things I'm buying!

Maybe they'll be more rare that way though.

Buysellyell · 08-26-2019, 04:54 PM

has anyone reported this to the FBI yet? I remember reading threads from the national and the FBI agent on site...doe anyone have his POC info and can forward this onto him or at least report it?

Treadstone · 08-26-2019, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

$1 million in COMC sales between 2016 and May 10, 2019 alone.

nm...

corndog · 08-26-2019, 05:07 PM

PSA Cert #28766405

1968 Topps Brooks Robinson #20

Value gain of $685.50

This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 9 for $113.50 on August 14, 2017.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1529377

Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $799.00 on June 14, 2018.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1672279

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed bottom edge.

Treadstone · 08-26-2019, 05:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ih8ca
I just want to say I appreciate all my customers. I hit the 1 million dollar mark in sales since 2016. Now it looks like I need to start spending more money and get some cards for you guys.

Please... don't do us any favors...

crimedawg47 · 08-26-2019, 05:49 PM

Just went through my inventory and removed for sale any item I had purchased from one of these accounts...67 in total, as a white sox fan boy a good chunk of it was moncada so clearly back in '16-'17 they were banking on his 1st BC. Sad going through the purchases tho and 1 in about every 10 or so that I didnt still have were in someone else's for sale inventory

ngs428 · 08-26-2019, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lloydchristmas

I really hope this doesn’t spread to 4SC, too.

Dammit.

Great job OP and everyone else.

Yeah, I hope not.. They are a good % of my collection.

Great job OP!

rngrdanny22 · 08-26-2019, 05:52 PM

Sorry if it's already been mentioned, but I notice several of the cards corndog has posted were original purchased through PWCC. Could these usernames be related to Moser and the whitman111 ID? Maybe just another username that he used?

T206Collector · 08-26-2019, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

Sloan and Orlando issued statements or blog posts or whatever they were both of which just spit in the face of collectors and honest dealers.

Steve Sloan, June 4, 2019:

“We take consumer protection seriously. . . . [PSA] will not let isolated acts from a few dishonest actors deter consumer confidence in our brand.”

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...message-boards

Joe Orlando, July 22, 2019, “Taking My Hacks: A Collectors Universe Retrospective”:

“After 20 years at the company and a lifetime in this hobby, there are a few things I know. There will always be challenges that our hobby will have to face and, unfortunately, there will also be those who choose to spread fear and ignorance. For those of us who love the hobby, there will always be opportunities to improve it by engaging in civil discourse.”

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...-retrospective

pspa123 · 08-26-2019, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Steve Sloan, June 4, 2019:

“We take consumer protection seriously. . . . [PSA] will not let isolated acts from a few dishonest actors deter consumer confidence in our brand.”

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...message-boards

Joe Orlando, July 22, 2019, “Taking My Hacks: A Collectors Universe Retrospective”:

“After 20 years at the company and a lifetime in this hobby, there are a few things I know. There will always be challenges that our hobby will have to face and, unfortunately, there will also be those who choose to spread fear and ignorance. For those of us who love the hobby, there will always be opportunities to improve it by engaging in civil discourse.”

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...-retrospective

Yeah, their ideal of civil discourse is to ban people. LOL.

dustin42 · 08-26-2019, 06:14 PM

Ban people? Who would they do that to?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...70&postcount=1

dustin42 · 08-26-2019, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Steve Sloan, June 4, 2019:

“We take consumer protection seriously. . . . [PSA] will not let isolated acts from a few dishonest actors deter consumer confidence in our brand.”

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...message-boards

Joe Orlando, July 22, 2019, “Taking My Hacks: A Collectors Universe Retrospective”:

“After 20 years at the company and a lifetime in this hobby, there are a few things I know. There will always be challenges that our hobby will have to face and, unfortunately, there will also be those who choose to spread fear and ignorance. For those of us who love the hobby, there will always be opportunities to improve it by engaging in civil discourse.”

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...-retrospective

Never trust somebody who gets a portrait at Olan Mills.

Deadshot · 08-26-2019, 06:19 PM

Joe Orlando also made it sound like collectors weren't offering up an logical solutions. I recorded a podcast with the27guy where we discussed the situation and what we thought could be done to make things right. I tagged Joe in multiple posts for the episode, as did some of my listeners. We never heard anything from him.

DunceMode · 08-26-2019, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Legit cards can be multiple standard deviations from the norm.

Grading companies can't even get the simple process they presently use to work properly. So why would anyone think a more complicated process would work?

Legit cards can have print defects and centering several standard deviations from the norm, too. Why should size be treated differently than any other defect?

As to your second comment, what do you propose then? Doing nothing?

mondogenerator · 08-26-2019, 06:26 PM

i think the card measurements at grading need to be recorded on the back as well as picture documentation at standardised and consistent distance and exact top down 90 degree angle as a start.

obviously this wont do anything to stop people trimming prior to an initial grading, but would at least ensure a freaking "GRADING COMPANY" would have some exact measurements and visual proof at point of grading. so at LEAST they could catch serial numbered suspect cards.

its going to be tough to address everything retrospectively but things have to start somewhere.

after helping out BODA over a few months, the picture references from worthpoint and archives have been the tools of allowing us to do what has been done. but it became very obvious very quickly that there were and still are some very VERY weak professional practices going on with grading companies and consigners.

i mean, how tf can PSA grade a player card xx/99 as an 8 then get the same card back a few years later and it gets a PSA 10 and have no process to query if that card has been graded previously? i mean, the most clear n obvious answer here is that they know its happening and they get more money for higher graded processing.

BGS/PSA/SGC etc all need a combined database and a freaking clue.

KhalDrogo · 08-26-2019, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryLime

COMC has to see the opportunity they have laid out in front of them. There have now been multiple examples of how NOT to handle public communication and transparency, it's almost impossible not to know what the correct path to take is.

Formulate a list of all cards sold by those three. Get it out to the public as fast as possible. Force refunds from those sellers or cover them yourself. Seek criminal/civil litigation against those that used and abused your platform to commit fraud, if that option is available to you. Work hand-in-hand with BODA to compile the best data and offer it to the federal investigators working on the larger investigation. Do these things while constantly and quickly updating people with your progress. You're now like a shark: inactivity = death. You have to keep pressing forward on the offensive and letting people know every little thing you're doing. It's the only way out of this mess.

Arthur

We agree on something. It's been awhile.

pryantexas · 08-26-2019, 06:35 PM

Been a busy day - can I get cliff notes?

COMC removed all these guys cards? COMC has publicly said they will work on refunds?

ClipsandVols · 08-26-2019, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Been a busy day - can I get cliff notes?

COMC removed all these guys cards? COMC has publicly said they will work on refunds?

Removed HawkDynasty, cccardfactory, and LORDSTANLEY2012's cards. Other than that, they are investigating.

dustin42 · 08-26-2019, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Been a busy day - can I get cliff notes?

COMC removed all these guys cards? COMC has publicly said they will work on refunds?

Nothing about refunds. Just they are working on it. Their cards are not for sale anymore. No more detail.

Haigo · 08-26-2019, 06:43 PM

I bought a Shaq Dunk and Go-Nuts Gem from Hawks Dynasty, that was the most expensive item. I don't even want to look at it because I'm sure I got screwed. What a way to totally destroy the hobby and put doubt in everyone's minds about every single card purchased or graded.

ken161 · 08-26-2019, 06:45 PM

Has anyone heard any updates on the status of PSA's no-stone-unturned internal investigation? Certainly, this latest revelation will lead to a significant amount of additional evidence for them to analyze in detail.

Never get cheated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Steve Sloan, June 4, 2019:

“We take consumer protection seriously. . . . [PSA] will not let isolated acts from a few dishonest actors deter consumer confidence in our brand.”

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...message-boards

Joe Orlando, July 22, 2019, “Taking My Hacks: A Collectors Universe Retrospective”:

“After 20 years at the company and a lifetime in this hobby, there are a few things I know. There will always be challenges that our hobby will have to face and, unfortunately, there will also be those who choose to spread fear and ignorance. For those of us who love the hobby, there will always be opportunities to improve it by engaging in civil discourse.”

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...-retrospective

corndog · 08-26-2019, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Sorry if it's already been mentioned, but I notice several of the cards corndog has posted were original purchased through PWCC. Could these usernames be related to Moser and the whitman111 ID? Maybe just another username that he used?

No relation. Same MO used by multiple card butchers.

pryantexas · 08-26-2019, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClipsandVols

Removed HawkDynasty, cccardfactory, and LORDSTANLEY2012's cards. Other than that, they are investigating.

This is pretty big though - swift action for a change

ClipsandVols · 08-26-2019, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pryantexas

This is pretty big though - swift action for a change

I think it's gonna be insane how many sellers on COMC are uncovered for selling trimmed and altered cards....

gmoney328 · 08-26-2019, 07:09 PM

This is utterly riveting and sad to read. I have been scouring Ebay for the last few weeks trying to find decent 7s and 8s to start adding to my modest but nice start, and what I am seeing here is that none of this stuff is safe. Even questions about raw cards. Hopefully word of this gets out, so people don't get taken for a ride any further. None of this existed back in the 80s. A real shame.

08-26-2019, 05:07 PM	#379
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,172	PSA Cert #28766405 1968 Topps Brooks Robinson #20 Value gain of $685.50 This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 9 for $113.50 on August 14, 2017. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1529377 Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $799.00 on June 14, 2018. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1672279 Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red box identifies trimmed bottom edge. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

08-26-2019, 05:49 PM	#381
crimedawg47 Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,976 Crimedawg47	Just went through my inventory and removed for sale any item I had purchased from one of these accounts...67 in total, as a white sox fan boy a good chunk of it was moncada so clearly back in '16-'17 they were banking on his 1st BC. Sad going through the purchases tho and 1 in about every 10 or so that I didnt still have were in someone else's for sale inventory __________________ Henderson PC: http://sportscardalbum.com/u/crimedawg47/a/gerald-henderson-pc Henderson Auto PC Stats: Non 1/1's Autos: 210/225 93.3% 1/1's: 26/41 63.4% Jersey #'d: 95 Total 1/1's: 60

08-26-2019, 06:19 PM	#388
Deadshot Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 7,694	Joe Orlando also made it sound like collectors weren't offering up an logical solutions. I recorded a podcast with the27guy where we discussed the situation and what we thought could be done to make things right. I tagged Joe in multiple posts for the episode, as did some of my listeners. We never heard anything from him. __________________ He said he name was “E”, so I introduced myself as “G”...The license plate said “IMNBITZ” or “IMNBISZ” or something. - G YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPuD3WYJ0rkpLqDdyavC2WA

08-26-2019, 06:26 PM	#390
mondogenerator Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: auckland, new zealand Posts: 1,370 meshuggah unida	i think the card measurements at grading need to be recorded on the back as well as picture documentation at standardised and consistent distance and exact top down 90 degree angle as a start. obviously this wont do anything to stop people trimming prior to an initial grading, but would at least ensure a freaking "GRADING COMPANY" would have some exact measurements and visual proof at point of grading. so at LEAST they could catch serial numbered suspect cards. its going to be tough to address everything retrospectively but things have to start somewhere. after helping out BODA over a few months, the picture references from worthpoint and archives have been the tools of allowing us to do what has been done. but it became very obvious very quickly that there were and still are some very VERY weak professional practices going on with grading companies and consigners. i mean, how tf can PSA grade a player card xx/99 as an 8 then get the same card back a few years later and it gets a PSA 10 and have no process to query if that card has been graded previously? i mean, the most clear n obvious answer here is that they know its happening and they get more money for higher graded processing. BGS/PSA/SGC etc all need a combined database and a freaking clue. __________________ Collecting Damon Stoudamire - IG @damonstoudamirecollector https://www.flickr.com/photos/damonite/albums trade stuff for DS here -> https://www.flickr.com/photos/damonitesecondary/albums/72157709510200157

08-26-2019, 04:54 PM	#377
Buysellyell Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 132	has anyone reported this to the FBI yet? I remember reading threads from the national and the FBI agent on site...doe anyone have his POC info and can forward this onto him or at least report it?

08-26-2019, 05:08 PM	#380
Treadstone Member Join Date: May 2019 Location: North of DC, south of Canada Posts: 187	Quote: Originally Posted by ih8ca I just want to say I appreciate all my customers. I hit the 1 million dollar mark in sales since 2016. Now it looks like I need to start spending more money and get some cards for you guys. Please... don't do us any favors...

08-26-2019, 05:52 PM	#383
rngrdanny22 Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 12,372	Sorry if it's already been mentioned, but I notice several of the cards corndog has posted were original purchased through PWCC. Could these usernames be related to Moser and the whitman111 ID? Maybe just another username that he used?

08-26-2019, 06:14 PM	#386
dustin42 Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 1,924	Ban people? Who would they do that to? https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...70&postcount=1

08-26-2019, 06:35 PM	#392
pryantexas Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 1,345 ThePRyanCollection ThePRyanCollection	Been a busy day - can I get cliff notes? COMC removed all these guys cards? COMC has publicly said they will work on refunds?

08-26-2019, 06:43 PM	#395
Haigo Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Boston Posts: 1,696 la32_pats_87	I bought a Shaq Dunk and Go-Nuts Gem from Hawks Dynasty, that was the most expensive item. I don't even want to look at it because I'm sure I got screwed. What a way to totally destroy the hobby and put doubt in everyone's minds about every single card purchased or graded.

08-26-2019, 07:09 PM	#400
gmoney328 Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Navarre, Florida Posts: 4,190	This is utterly riveting and sad to read. I have been scouring Ebay for the last few weeks trying to find decent 7s and 8s to start adding to my modest but nice start, and what I am seeing here is that none of this stuff is safe. Even questions about raw cards. Hopefully word of this gets out, so people don't get taken for a ride any further. None of this existed back in the 80s. A real shame.