Should TOPPS restructure hits per product for Star Wars?

[Vargaman]

So I was thinking this morning, what if TOPPS restructured how their products worked.

Movie sets: patches/medallions & autos
Retail exclusive sets: patches/medallions
High-end sets: autos and/or sketches only

I'm not 100% sure on this as some people love sketches or autos more than the other and TOPPS will seemingly never get rid of filler hits like patches/medallions in lieu of real relics.

But thinking of a set like High Tek, where there wasn't filler hits, was a good configuration.

I think the more types of hits they add, the more watered down the product ends up being.

Obviously I know a major part of this is production run and having to guarantee a hit, but what if they didn't?

What if they had a movie release where 4 of 12 boxes in a case had an auto or sketch, but the ones inserted were medium-high quality, but the box price was also only $50 versus $80?

I'd also like to set a higher-end set configuration with sketches only and no autos. Maybe something like Tek again, but put sketches as the only hits.

I think it's hard getting away from sketches AND autos AND filler for a main movie release since it's hobby and retail, but maybe keep the filler hits to retail only, or at least have the hobby ones be /25 or less for breakers/set builders to get some value.

We also need to get Master Work back to high end sketches only, bigger names and no garbage/filler hits. Give us real relics or authentic animation cels or something truly unique versus a patch or medallion.


What do you guys think could work?

[cmixer]

In the 2016 Upper Deck Marvel Gems Trading Cards set ...

There were: Crystal Clear PETG cards with an acetate stock that fall in every box.

& Playing off the iconic Jambalaya line are Gem-Balaya inserts while Shadowbox combines multiple layers with a thick stock. These are joined by Diamond Cut cards with a die-cut jewel design and acetate stock.

BUT Original Art Sketch cards average four per 20-box case and feature hand-drawn artwork.

... You would have to ask breakers if they were happy. Only 1 sketch in 5 boxes.

[Ashes]

Originally Posted by Vargaman

So I was thinking this morning, what if TOPPS restructured how their products worked.

Movie sets: patches/medallions & autos
Retail exclusive sets: patches/medallions
High-end sets: autos and/or sketches only

I'm not 100% sure on this as some people love sketches or autos more than the other and TOPPS will seemingly never get rid of filler hits like patches/medallions in lieu of real relics.

But thinking of a set like High Tek, where there wasn't filler hits, was a good configuration.

I think the more types of hits they add, the more watered down the product ends up being.

Obviously I know a major part of this is production run and having to guarantee a hit, but what if they didn't?

What if they had a movie release where 4 of 12 boxes in a case had an auto or sketch, but the ones inserted were medium-high quality, but the box price was also only $50 versus $80?

I'd also like to set a higher-end set configuration with sketches only and no autos. Maybe something like Tek again, but put sketches as the only hits.

I think it's hard getting away from sketches AND autos AND filler for a main movie release since it's hobby and retail, but maybe keep the filler hits to retail only, or at least have the hobby ones be /25 or less for breakers/set builders to get some value.

We also need to get Master Work back to high end sketches only, bigger names and no garbage/filler hits. Give us real relics or authentic animation cels or something truly unique versus a patch or medallion.


What do you guys think could work?

Look at it from a money making standpoint and work it from there.

Who are the buyers?

Is a single, bullet, shot going to get the same results as a shotgun blast?

How has the market evolved?

There was a time when opening a pack of cards meant getting a few cards and a stick of gum or getting a sticker was the highlight.
Now you have packs or boxes with an autograph, a sketch card, a piece of clothing, a patch, a medallion, a golden ticket to tour the chocolate factory...sorry, wrong product.

Restructuring is a great idea.
But...
How do you keep the existing collector(s) spending their money?
Do you limit product "hits" and limit your customers?
How do you attract new customers?
How do you keep your sale numbers up?
Is the current format working?

Would you think the same way (as a collector), if your only interest was in getting as much money out of people as possible?

How many times have you collected cards from one set only to see another set emerge (and you haven't gotten what you wanted to get from that older set)?

[gdelan1]

Does anyone like the medallion/patch cards?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Brobocop]

I've always wondered what an insert driven set that cost $50 or under a box would be like in sports cards? I think in Star Wars it could work given that you have character collectors.

I still maintain that Infinity War had the coolest looking base set with base cards that we SP and SSP. I collected the whole thing though and it was fun to chase. Maybe do something like that.

[glorbgorb]

I'd love to see acetate outside High-Tek. And maybe some lenticular cards. Those could replace the medallions.

[Vargaman]

Originally Posted by Ashes

Look at it from a money making standpoint and work it from there.

Who are the buyers?

Is a single, bullet, shot going to get the same results as a shotgun blast?

How has the market evolved?

There was a time when opening a pack of cards meant getting a few cards and a stick of gum or getting a sticker was the highlight.
Now you have packs or boxes with an autograph, a sketch card, a piece of clothing, a patch, a medallion, a golden ticket to tour the chocolate factory...sorry, wrong product.

Restructuring is a great idea.
But...
How do you keep the existing collector(s) spending their money?
Do you limit product "hits" and limit your customers?
How do you attract new customers?
How do you keep your sale numbers up?
Is the current format working?

Would you think the same way (as a collector), if your only interest was in getting as much money out of people as possible?

How many times have you collected cards from one set only to see another set emerge (and you haven't gotten what you wanted to get from that older set)?

How do you keep the existing collector(s) spending their money? Remove trash $5 autos/hits that scare breakers away
Do you limit product "hits" and limit your customers? No. The hits would all have more value, and they can pad sets with SP cards or rarer insert sets to chase
How do you attract new customers? Increased break value, better quality hits
How do you keep your sale numbers up? More quality/value = more breakers
Is the current format working? Maybe for Topps, barely for breakers

Would you think the same way (as a collector), if your only interest was in getting as much money out of people as possible? No, because there's a few mindsets. As a collector, the current formats are pretty boring and new designs are desperately needed. If I was a breaker, I'd stay far away knowing the top hits are 1:10 cases at best. True collectors will likely PC most of their cards or master sets at least versus flip for resale.

How many times have you collected cards from one set only to see another set emerge (and you haven't gotten what you wanted to get from that older set)? Are you saying I didn't get my 1st set complete because breakers moved on, or because the new set had other content I wanted?

[Vargaman]

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

I'd love to see acetate outside High-Tek. And maybe some lenticular cards. Those could replace the medallions.

Yeah, once Tek dropped, MW stopped the acetate inserts, which is a shame because they were really cool.

[Ashes]

Thanks for responding and answering the questions.
You really didn't have to.
I don't see anything wrong with your ideas.

Originally Posted by Vargaman

How do you keep the existing collector(s) spending their money? Remove trash $5 autos/hits that scare breakers away
Do you limit product "hits" and limit your customers? No. The hits would all have more value, and they can pad sets with SP cards or rarer insert sets to chase
How do you attract new customers? Increased break value, better quality hits
How do you keep your sale numbers up? More quality/value = more breakers
Is the current format working? Maybe for Topps, barely for breakers

Would you think the same way (as a collector), if your only interest was in getting as much money out of people as possible? No, because there's a few mindsets. As a collector, the current formats are pretty boring and new designs are desperately needed. If I was a breaker, I'd stay far away knowing the top hits are 1:10 cases at best. True collectors will likely PC most of their cards or master sets at least versus flip for resale.

How many times have you collected cards from one set only to see another set emerge (and you haven't gotten what you wanted to get from that older set)? Are you saying I didn't get my 1st set complete because breakers moved on, or because the new set had other content I wanted?

I'm not saying anything.
I'm just asking the question.
In all likelihood, if you aren't a case or box breaker, yes.

This last question was a broad scope/blanket question that was meant more as a venting, rhetorical, question.
The question was intended more for the individual(s) that are not buying cases (or boxes).
OR
The question is intended for the individual(s) that are buying cases (or boxes).

The question stems from something I read earlier.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...45&postcount=1

The OP was looking for one sketch card.
OP spent $55.99 and could've saved $2,000.00 (or more).
OP has several more boxes to break (or could sell them).

The end result is a catch-22.
Wait for someone else to do the dirty work and pay for what you want.
Maybe you get what you want & need; maybe you don't.
OR
Buy boxes (or cases) yourself; build what you need and figure out what to do with the multitude of either complete sets or nearly complete sets.

That last question also stems from my frustration over trying to complete a set of cards that I want (from one series) just to see another new series come up.
By the time that I get one set near completion, another set comes up and then there is another set and another set.
How many set(s) does a card company need to produce in one year?
This last question is rhetorical.
The answer is enough to keep the cash flowing back to the card company.

Is it frustrating not getting what you want?
Yes.

Would it be nice to customize (from the card company) what you want to collect?
Yes.

I'd like a big mac, large coke, and fries.
Wait.
Make it a quarter pounder.
Wait.
Make it a grand mac; hold the onions.
Change the coke to a vanilla milkshake...wait, strawberry milkshake.
Oh and curly fries, instead of regular fries.

Originally Posted by Vargaman

Remove trash $5 autos/hits that scare breakers away

One person's trash is another person's treasure.

Originally Posted by Vargaman

...they can pad sets with SP cards or rarer insert sets to chase

How much more "rarer" do inserts have to be?

FOR EXAMPLE
Using the 2019 Topps Star Wars Skywalker Saga, how would you restructure this product to be appealing to all the Star Wars fans worldwide and still give you what you want?


Base Set Checklist
100 cards.
PARALLEL CARDS: Orange (1 per pack), Blue (1:4 packs), Green #/99, Purple #/25, Red 1/1, Printing Plates 1/1.

Topps Star Wars Skywalker Saga Autograph / Relic Checklist

Autographs Set Checklist
PARALLEL CARDS: Orange #/99, Blue #/50, Green #/25, Purple #/5, Red 1/1, Printing Plates 1/1.

Dual Autographs Set Checklist
PARALLEL CARDS: Green #/25, Purple #/5, Red 1/1.

Triple Autographs Set Checklist
PARALLEL CARDS: Red 1/1.

Commemorative Blueprints Relics Set Checklist
PARALLEL CARDS: Orange #/99, Blue #/50, Green #/25, Purple #/5, Red 1/1.

Commemorative Nameplate Patch Relics Set Checklist
Value Blaster only.
PARALLEL CARDS: Orange #/99, Blue #/50, Green #/25, Purple #/5, Red 1/1.


2019 Topps Star Wars Skywalker Saga Insert Set Checklist

Allies Set Checklist
PARALLEL CARDS: Green #/99, Purple #/25, Red 1/1, Printing Plates 1/1.

Enemies Set Checklist
PARALLEL CARDS: Green #/99, Purple #/25, Red 1/1, Printing Plates 1/1.

Iconic Looks Set Checklist
PARALLEL CARDS: Green #/99, Purple #/25, Red 1/1, Printing Plates 1/1.

Path of the Jedi Set Checklist
PARALLEL CARDS: Green #/99, Purple #/25, Red 1/1, Printing Plates 1/1.

Skywalker Legacy Set Checklist
PARALLEL CARDS: Green #/99, Purple #/25, Red 1/1, Printing Plates 1/1.


The card collecting fans (yourself included) are speaking.
For every one person that is posting, how many are lurking in agreement?
Rhetorical, don't answer.

POSITIVE

Originally Posted by Vargaman

...acetate inserts...they were really cool.

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

I'd love to see acetate...And maybe some lenticular cards...

Originally Posted by cmixer

...Crystal Clear PETG cards...Gem-Balaya inserts...Shadowbox...Diamond Cut cards with a die-cut jewel design and acetate stock

NEGATIVE

Originally Posted by gdelan1

Does anyone like the medallion/patch cards?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by glorbgorb

...replace the medallions.

You can't please everyone.

All these sets (i.e. base, orange, blue, green, purple, red, printing plates, etc.) keeps the fans in the stands.
If the fans want to complete a set, they have to spend the money.

Is it all overkill?
I think so.
To the one wanting your money, no.

They're probably trying to figure out ways to keep increasing the colors & extras.

How about a standard base set with parallels in orange, blue, green, purple, red, foil border, rainbow foil, acetate, lenticular, chromium, Gem-Balaya, hologram, sticker, black light, printing plates, and either single autograph or multiple autographs (depending on whose on the card)?
For the extras/hits, insert sketch cards, film cels, medallions, pieces of wardrobe, and everything else that has ever been utilized before.
Do this for every new series that is released from here on out.
If a new idea comes to light, add it in.
That stuff in blue is meant as sarcasm.
I don't doubt that someone from the card company would try to make certain ideas a reality.

That was fun.
We should do this again, sometime...later.

Leaving now.

[HiltonL]

the bottom line is: does the set sell out?

if Yes, Topps doesn't care, because they got their money

if No, Topps apparently doesn't care, because they're the only ones with a SW license for trading cards; but they oftentimes make sets total print runs print-to-order, which means Topps gets their money

Topps lately is leaning heavy on custom print-to-order (see: The Living Set) which makes me sad as a collector, but Topps gets their money

Do you see a theme here?

[Scottish Punk]

I would love for the companies to stop catering to breakers in general. I feel like they have pushed out collectors and just exacerbate the "pump and dump" world we live in now. But, that genie is not going back in the bottle. Too easy to sell out when breakers are buying stuff by the case(s).

I do think the future when it is all said and done is most if not all the the card releases will be a combination of print on demand and digital. Cuts the middle men out of the picture all together. Topps is probably trying to figure out how/when that market will shift enough to keep selling out.

[arek]

I’d prefer less parallels and more base cards per box.

2014 chrome perspectives boxes had 144 cards per box, 24 packs of 6 cards.

2019 chrome legacy has 60 cards per box, 12 packs with 5 cards.

I don’t know if the production costs doubled over the past 5 years, but customers are receiving less than half as many cards for a comparable product at a similar price point

[Vargaman]

Originally Posted by arek

I’d prefer less parallels and more base cards per box.

2014 chrome perspectives boxes had 144 cards per box, 24 packs of 6 cards.

2019 chrome legacy has 60 cards per box, 12 packs with 5 cards.

I don’t know if the production costs doubled over the past 5 years, but customers are receiving less than half as many cards for a comparable product at a similar price point

Don't forget they took away the refractor patterns, which IMHO severely devalues the parallels by removing interest.

I want a parallel to stand out more than just a color border.

Tek, MW and Chrome (until now) have all done a great job.

[ForceChange77]

The parallels do stand out on Chrome Legacy IMHO. Maybe because the base set looks kinda metallic, but IMHO any of the parallels look a lot better than the base. THe set is really pretty nice overall and I like it because it is not stock character pictures.

[kerg]

Originally Posted by gdelan1

Does anyone like the medallion/patch cards?

I like patch/medallion cards when they have some type of meaning or are unique (such as a squadron patch or unique patches from Stranger things). There are a host of other patches/medallions from other products that I like.

Meaningless things that are just patches for the sake of being a 'hit' (like Porg patches) are just useless and hold no interest for me.

[Jaysabz]

My opinion:

Less manufactured medallions & patches.

More SP and SSP photo variations in the base set.

Less insert sets that can't be completed with a case or two.

Less insignificant signatures and sketches. If each 12 box case guaranteed 2 (decent... and by that I mean no puppeteers or unidentifiable characters) signatures and 2 decent sketch cards per case, hitting an auto or sketch would feel worthwhile.

I'm not talking about all Harrison Ford's or Ridley's. But if the "floor" was something like Warwick Davis, and only 2 autos per case, I'd prefer that over the flood of junk autos and crap sketches.