MUST READ TRIMMING THREAD: COMC- HawkDynasty,cccardfactory,LORDSTANLEY2012|PWCC|ih8ca

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

trimmed cards have value all over!

slabbed, raw, its all trimmed indeed

If everything’s trimmed, is it smart to pay extra for slabbed??

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

If everything’s trimmed, is it smart to pay extra for slabbed??

its never smart to pay anything for cards!

[tmoore_25]

Originally Posted by Shouldabeena10

WOW, That post was so much shorter in my head, before I typed it out. Sorry about that. LOL

After reading your post, it made me wonder if anything is really going to change. Do we know if any of the people involved in that trimming scam in 2014 faced any legal repercussions or were they just forgotten about and allowed to come back into the hobby at a later date?

I firmly believe PSA is simply looking at past instances and realizing that with time, all things pass. They are not actually putting any tools/steps in place in order to catch trimmed cards. With as many cards as they have submitted on a daily basis, there is probably a standard number of cards that each grader is required to grade each day. Let's say it is 400. If they take the extra time to scrutinize the sizes accurately, it might lower there output by 100 and put their jobs in jeopardy.

I'd be interested to see if Jewcer2k5 would be willing to share some data with us. I suspect that the only thing PSA has done is give the impression that they are making changes. They conduct an investigation, which only produces the information that is already out there. They continue to work with PWCC to put the blame on one or two individuals so that they can protect their mutual business relationship. Lastly, they start issuing fewer Gem Mint 10's in order to make people think they are grading harder and scrutinizing the cards more.

I'd like to see if Jewcer2k5 could provide some stats for his bulk grading submissions. I think that would be a pretty good spread of people and years of cards graded. If he could provide 2 weeks worth of submissions from 1 year ago, 6 months ago, and 1 month ago, I think you will see that the percentage of 10's was probably close to the same for 1 year and 6 months, but less for 1 month ago.

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by tmoore_25

Do we know if any of the people involved in that trimming scam in 2014 faced any legal repercussions or were they just forgotten about and allowed to come back into the hobby at a later date?

From what I read they never left!

[4040Man]

I am surprised that any of this news inspires great emotion. Maybe it is because some of you don't know what the hobby was like back in the 80's. Regularly dealers would pull all the good cards from packs and put them back out for sale as a fresh box and talk up how "someone just pulled a Mattingly rookie yesterday" and how "there is usually two or more per box" knowing there is zero in those packs. This is the same hobby where every iconic 80's rookie card had counterfeits being passed off as real within months of issue. This is the same hobby that had many dealers selling 1971 Topps cards as "mint" with sharpie colored in borders. The level of shady scumbag people in the hobby has always been too high and I don't see that ever changing. It is great that you guys have such devotion to spend so much effort to police these things and try to bring justice, but I am just long out of outrage for a hobby that has always been a bad monetary investment. I collect the players and cards I like because I pretty much cant help myself. I really enjoy collecting cards, but I long ago accepted that I'll get scammed from time to time as there is always some new fraud on the horizon. I just avoid big dollar stuff and focus more on the cards that I will actually enjoy owning rather than what I think will retain any value.

[Cavaliercards]

Apologies if I missed it, did COMC make an announcement or did they just put their accounts on hiatus?

[ThoseBackPages]

is COMC issuing all registered users a refund of some sort?

[chezball]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Apologies if I missed it, did COMC make an announcement or did they just put their accounts on hiatus?

They did both.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

From what I read they never left!

They've multiplied, created more hobby relationships and branched out into price manipulation.

They haven't been idle all this time...

[corndog]

PSA Cert #28758679

1956 Topps Dale Mitchell #268

Value gain of $325.50

This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 7 for $164.50 on March 14, 2017.
Although sold by PWCC, this card cannot be found in the PWCC Marketplace. VCP link:https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...68/66496/PSA/7

Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 8 for $490.00 on April 30, 2018.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1651818

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed left edge.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #41222379

1966 Topps Bill Skowron #590

Value gain of $41.61

This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a SGC 8 for $90.89 on May 10, 2017.
Although sold by PWCC, this card cannot be found in the PWCC Marketplace. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b.../167466/SGC/88



Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 9 for $132.50 on August 15, 2018.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1651818

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed bottom edge.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by chezball

They did both.

Thanks chez

[corndog]

PSA Cert #40878356

1961 Topps Hockey Irv Spencer #47

Value gain of $84.42

This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 8 for $39.08 on May 21, 2017.
Although sold by PWCC, this card cannot be found in the PWCC Marketplace. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...47/86919/PSA/8



Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 9 for $123.50 on August 15, 2018.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1699301

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed top edge.

[adamdavidson47]

It appears that PSA cares more about their slabs being altered/forged than they do about the actual alteration of cards.

[vwnut13]

You know what I haven't seen a certain member post lately?

"Grading is a scam."

[Vladdy Jr]

Originally Posted by vwnut13

You know what I haven't seen a certain member post lately?

"Grading is a scam."

Because people are realizing grading isn’t a scam... PSA is a scam.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Vladdy Jr

Because people are realizing grading isn’t a scam... PSA is a scam.

As opposed to BGS and SGC, who have never graded a trimmed card before? What are you saying?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by vwnut13

You know what I haven't seen a certain member post lately?



"Grading is a scam."

Premium prices people pay for graded is the biggest scam.

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by Vladdy Jr

Because people are realizing grading isn’t a scam... PSA is a scam.

No all the TPG's suck. They are either inept or complicit in the trimming/conservation scandal. Which one do you think it is?

[HarryLime]

The one glaring difference between now and 15 (and 10, and many other times) years ago is that this time the FBI is involved. No matter what anyone involved wants to do, the FBI is going to conduct their investigation and prosecute people where they find criminal charges. That train has left the station and there's no bringing it back.

In the meantime, we're forced to just speculate as to what is going on behind the scenes. But with the work BODA has done and all of the ancillary things that have been uncovered because of it, I find it hard to believe that no one will be seeing the inside of a courtroom.

Hopefully they're able to round up as many bad actors as possible and send a message loud and clear because it's become abundantly obvious that our hobby requires a gross overhaul of how things are done. Scumbags have acted with impunity for decades now.

We saw a decent clean up with AHs once Mastro cell door slammed shut. Hopefully this will discourage people from taking a knife to a card. I don't know. But I remain hopeful and positive.

Arthur

[dustin42]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

The one glaring difference between now and 15 (and 10, and many other times) years ago is that this time the FBI is involved. No matter what anyone involved wants to do, the FBI is going to conduct their investigation and prosecute people where they find criminal charges. That train has left the station and there's no bringing it back.

In the meantime, we're forced to just speculate as to what is going on behind the scenes. But with the work BODA has done and all of the ancillary things that have been uncovered because of it, I find it hard to believe that no one will be seeing the inside of a courtroom.

Hopefully they're able to round up as many bad actors as possible and send a message loud and clear because it's become abundantly obvious that our hobby requires a gross overhaul of how things are done. Scumbags have acted with impunity for decades now.

We saw a decent clean up with AHs once Mastro cell door slammed shut. Hopefully this will discourage people from taking a knife to a card. I don't know. But I remain hopeful and positive.

Arthur

Exactly. The feds are involved this time. Also the Washington Post, Forbes, and NY Times have all covered and are following the investigation.

[Soxfanguy]

I wish the FBI would do the busting in from the ceiling and windows thing, and arrest the trimmers. It should be 20-25 years in prison for trimmers IMO

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by Shouldabeena10

WOW, That post was so much shorter in my head, before I typed it out. Sorry about that. LOL

I remember that thread and similar ones. I joined CU's forum in year one. It pained me to see DUDE banned, that guy was a wealth of hobby knowledge.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

The one glaring difference between now and 15 (and 10, and many other times) years ago is that this time the FBI is involved. No matter what anyone involved wants to do, the FBI is going to conduct their investigation and prosecute people where they find criminal charges. That train has left the station and there's no bringing it back.

In the meantime, we're forced to just speculate as to what is going on behind the scenes. But with the work BODA has done and all of the ancillary things that have been uncovered because of it, I find it hard to believe that no one will be seeing the inside of a courtroom.

Hopefully they're able to round up as many bad actors as possible and send a message loud and clear because it's become abundantly obvious that our hobby requires a gross overhaul of how things are done. Scumbags have acted with impunity for decades now.

We saw a decent clean up with AHs once Mastro cell door slammed shut. Hopefully this will discourage people from taking a knife to a card. I don't know. But I remain hopeful and positive.

Arthur

People need to prepare for the distinct possibility that an overhaul of how things are done may very well have to occur from the bottom up.

Hobbyists need to make the overhaul themselves by deciding to spend or not spend after being provided with adequate information.

Clearly no hobby institutions are going to provide meaningful, on-going protection. History shows these institutions have been corrupt.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

People need to prepare for the distinct possibility that an overhaul of how things are done may very well have to occur from the bottom up.

Hobbyists need to make the overhaul themselves by deciding to spend or not spend after being provided with adequate information.

Clearly no hobby institutions are going to provide meaningful, on-going protection. History shows these institutions have been corrupt.

You're right. I would of course love to see the federal government clean up this industry once and for all, but I am skeptical at this point that that is realistic or likely to happen. Whatever positive (like the restitution that is being paid) comes out of it is a good thing, but I wouldn't set my expectations too high.