John Collins + Kevin Huerter

brothertona · 09-08-2019, 07:22 PM

These guys are crazy underpriced in the hobby, John Collins is one of the best big men in the league, 20 - 10 guy, do you think we will see him pick up in the hobby once the Hawks start winning?

drobfan8 · 09-08-2019, 07:26 PM

There's been plenty of 20 and 10 guys that have received little Hobby love.

Dude needs to get his team a top 4 spot in the East to go crazy.

ninjacookies · 09-08-2019, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drobfan8

There's been plenty of 20 and 10 guys that have received little Hobby love.

Dude needs to get his team a top 4 spot in the East to go crazy.

This.

Colins actually has quite a nice offensive game. A lot of people think he's just a dunker, but he can shoot the 3 well.

But he also gets rekt defensively, and plays 2nd hobby fiddle to Trae. Either he's going to have to become the alpha dog and start averaging 25+ a game, or the team is going to have to experience major success for him to have a notable rise.

Huerter? I still don't get him as any sort of investment, unless you just view him as a penny stock being so cheap that he's an ultra low risk flier.

GeechQuest · 09-08-2019, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brothertona

These guys are crazy underpriced in the hobby, John Collins is one of the best big men in the league, 20 - 10 guy, do you think we will see him pick up in the hobby once the Hawks start winning?

No, you won’t. He’s probably in the middle of the pack when it comes to NBA bigs. How Hobby relevant do you think that makes him?

The only people purchasing Collins cards are people looking to make money on Collins cards. His collector base is nothing.

brothertona · 09-08-2019, 07:55 PM

It is exactly what I view Huerter as, I think right now he's so cheap that you can get a bunch of great stuff and if they become Golden State East I think he could become pretty hot.

ninjacookies · 09-08-2019, 07:57 PM

So you're thinking he can be the Klay Thompson of a potential championship franchise, when he's the 3rd best player and most likely the Draymond Green of the equation? (Klay isn't exactly hobby hot either).

We don't even know how good Hunter is going to be.

RogerGodahell · 09-08-2019, 07:58 PM

Collins is really good. He's a rebounding and inside scoring machine who can shoot the 3. And he's only 21. He get's overshadowed by Trae and now he'll have Hunter and Huerter to contend with as well. I don't really know much about Huerter. I'm surprised how few games the Hawks are predicted to win this year. What i've seen is about 34 wins. It will be interesting to see how they do. They were a fun team to watch last year. They have a nice nucleus of young players. If they aren't competitive this year they should be real soon.

IceTrae11 · 09-08-2019, 08:09 PM

A rising tide lifts all boats...

GeechQuest · 09-08-2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceTrae11

A rising tide lifts all boats...

We in the Navy now bois!!!

RogerGodahell · 09-08-2019, 08:30 PM

I don't bet but if i did i would probably take the over on Atlanta's win total of 33.5 games for the upcoming season. They had 29 wins last year. Something for all the gamblers out there to look at.

ninjacookies · 09-08-2019, 08:43 PM

I'm actually pretty bullish on the Hawks long term, especially in this super, super weakened Eastern conference. But that's a 3-5 year project, imo.

And even then, I'm unsure how Collins fits into the mix hobby wise. We saw a then top 10 'talent' in Blake Griffin helped take the Clippers to the playoffs. But it was after his hype had already subsided so it didn't help him much if at all.

Collins is going on year 3..so the hobby is most likely going to expect a big jump from him. This should include an all-star nod, at least as a reserve (I mean, it is the eastern conference). If it doesn't happen then it'll be tough for him to recover...as people would have already moved onto other prospects. Similar to Julius Randle.

Siberian13 · 09-08-2019, 08:59 PM

Collins has a chance to showcase his stuff at the dunk contest. Instead he tripped over a fake plane and embarrassed himself

RogerGodahell · 09-08-2019, 09:09 PM

They need a defensive stopper. I like the pieces they've been adding the last couple years. They have a bright future ahead of them. Don't forget about Cam Reddish as well. Really good group of young talent, they just need more experience. Maybe the best group of young players in the league as a whole. I like what NO is building as well. Should be a fun NBA season, i'm gonna have to get the season pass again. Too many different teams and players i like to watch.

ninjacookies · 09-08-2019, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

They need a defensive stopper. I like the pieces they've been adding the last couple years. They have a bright future ahead of them. Don't forget about Cam Reddish as well. Really good group of young talent, they just need more experience. Maybe the best group of young players in the league as a whole. I like what NO is building as well. Should be a fun NBA season, i'm gonna have to get the season pass again. Too many different teams and players i like to watch.

That's why they got Hunter. He was supposed to be one of the best on-ball defenders in the top 10 along with Zion and Rui. I think they expect him to play that Covington/Roberson role on that end of the floor. Not sure how his offense is going to pan out, he's pretty raw. Cam I'm still unsure. He's got incredible length, but he looked pretty shaky at Duke. Until he puts on some weight, he's going to get bodied in the pros.

cardfund · 09-08-2019, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Collins has a chance to showcase his stuff at the dunk contest. Instead he tripped over a fake plane and embarrassed himself

LOL that was something else.

tjforce · 09-08-2019, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brothertona

It is exactly what I view Huerter as, I think right now he's so cheap that you can get a bunch of great stuff and if they become Golden State East I think he could become pretty hot.

I agree...

if they become the Golden State of the East, win 3 titles, 5 straight conference finals, set the regular season record for wins, and Atlanta suddenly gets an influx of tech money to float card values, then yes, Huerter will pretty hot.

ninjacookies · 09-08-2019, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

I agree...

if they become the Golden State of the East, win 3 titles, 5 straight conference finals, set the regular season record for wins, and Atlanta suddenly gets an influx of tech money to float card values, then yes, Huerter will pretty hot.

They may not have the financial backing of ultra brilliant Silicon Valley tech devs.

But what if those crazy rich mumble rappers in Decatur with the big mansions and rented Maybachs suddenly trade their platinum Jesus Pieces for cardboard...

think of the possibilities for Huerter prizms.

brothertona · 09-08-2019, 09:32 PM

Reddish was a monster though before he got to Duke, I think he will be a beast for the Hawks, Hunter will be a defensive stopper - I expect he probably won't score a ton - but will always get the big assignments defensively late and Atlanta already has an influx of tech money - it is the silicon valley of the south. I think Atlanta wins 45+ next year, and is a free agent destination in 2021.

nomarkj · 09-08-2019, 10:25 PM

Collins rookie stuff, specifically prizm, has seen a bump over the past 3 months. I also think he is undervalued going 20-10 as a 21 year old but this year will be a big factor in how the hobby views him. I look forward to see how he progresses.

ninjacookies · 09-08-2019, 10:44 PM

Reddish was a monster before Duke because he was another high school phenom dominating...children. The same things critics of Zion were saying, that his domination wouldn't translate at the college level with bigger kids, ended up being true of most of his teammates. Turns out Reddish was the one who struggled at the college ranks the most.

His strength became a concern so he became more of a spot up shooter. Problem is he has huge shooting consistency problems like RJ. But he is super long and has elite defensive potential if he can fill out. I think the very, very optimistic hope for his offensive game is he becomes similar to Brandon Ingram.

daeve · 09-08-2019, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

They may not have the financial backing of ultra brilliant Silicon Valley tech devs.

But what if those crazy rich mumble rappers in Decatur with the big mansions and rented Maybachs suddenly trade their platinum Jesus Pieces for cardboard...

think of the possibilities for Huerter prizms.

Well you both swung and missed out on the fact that Atlanta is Hollywood East and has been for several years now. The fan base is lacking because the product was never very entertaining [even the 60-win team was pretty 'boring' - let's be honest]... but that's just changed dramatically with the new ownership and Schlenk. There's also the fact that Atlanta is a pretty transient town, so many residents either already have teams or don't stick around long enough to become fans of the local teams. But that's also changing rapidly, and if you don't think they can support hobby superstars then you must not have ever heard of a kid named Acuna. Interestingly, the SF Giants also started to get competitive+win right before their NBA counterpart took off.

ninjacookies · 09-08-2019, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daeve

Well you both swung and missed out on the fact that Atlanta is Hollywood East and has been for several years now. The fan base is lacking because the product was never very entertaining [even the 60-win team was pretty 'boring' - let's be honest]... but that's just changed dramatically with the new ownership and Schlenk. There's also the fact that Atlanta is a pretty transient town, so many residents either already have teams or don't stick around long enough to become fans of the local teams. But that's also changing rapidly, and if you don't think they can support hobby superstars then you must not have ever heard of a kid named Acuna. Interestingly, the SF Giants also started to get competitive+win right before their NBA counterpart took off.

Definitely aware of Acuna. Are we going to just completely ignore he's the closest thing to Trout since....probably Mookie...and flirting with a 40/40 season? And I'm not entirely convinced the baseball market is the same as the basketball market in this circumstance.

Atlanta's economy is definitely growing for sure, and has been. What I said was in jest (if you didn't catch the obvious undertones).

Trae sells fairly well, but that's based on his game being modeled the closest to Curry since '09. And Curry is the absolute hobby anomaly in terms of modern day point guards.

I think Trae's stuff has the highest upside based on his style of play. If John Collins suddenly becomes Acuna and setting records left and right...then yes...I can see a significant rise. 20/10? Nope. He's just another guy putting up those kind of numbers...even if he is young.

Huerter? I still don't get it. Maybe because I don't value +/- as much for dudes averaging under 10ppg when it comes to investments.

tjforce · 09-08-2019, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daeve

Well you both swung and missed out on the fact that Atlanta is Hollywood East and has been for several years now. The fan base is lacking because the product was never very entertaining [even the 60-win team was pretty 'boring' - let's be honest]... but that's just changed dramatically with the new ownership and Schlenk. There's also the fact that Atlanta is a pretty transient town, so many residents either already have teams or don't stick around long enough to become fans of the local teams. But that's also changing rapidly, and if you don't think they can support hobby superstars then you must not have ever heard of a kid named Acuna. Interestingly, the SF Giants also started to get competitive+win right before their NBA counterpart took off.

Ya I think you swung and missed at the main point of my post, which was that any team who has the success that the warriors have had will surely see their star players values rise.

But instead you had to try to knit pick and one small point within the bigger picture.

Unless you think there is a market whose team wouldn’t see huge price bumps with 3 titles in 4 years. If so, I’d love to hear your point of view on it.

dengbang · 09-09-2019, 12:18 AM

Numbers for bigger men usually doesn't translate into hobby love. Remember that Cousins fellow? He averaged 25 pts, 11 Reb, 5 assists, 1.5 blks, 1.5 stls two years ago.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

bberns · 09-09-2019, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Definitely aware of Acuna. Are we going to just completely ignore he's the closest thing to Trout since....probably Mookie...and flirting with a 40/40 season? And I'm not entirely convinced the baseball market is the same as the basketball market in this circumstance.

Atlanta's economy is definitely growing for sure, and has been. What I said was in jest (if you didn't catch the obvious undertones).

Trae sells fairly well, but that's based on his game being modeled the closest to Curry since '09. And Curry is the absolute hobby anomaly in terms of modern day point guards.

I think Trae's stuff has the highest upside based on his style of play. If John Collins suddenly becomes Acuna and setting records left and right...then yes...I can see a significant rise. 20/10? Nope. He's just another guy putting up those kind of numbers...even if he is young.

Huerter? I still don't get it. Maybe because I don't value +/- as much for dudes averaging under 10ppg when it comes to investments.

I actually think that Shawn Kemp is a decent comp for Collins. People like Kemp, but he's not a hobby icon. That might be different if he and the Glove had won a title, but Kemp's win share neighbors aren't exactly amazing.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...ws_career.html

I also agree with 538 that Domantas Sabonis is similar to Collins. Sabonis had a sneaky great year last year and before you say that Sabonis isn't the athlete that Collins is, go watch some Youtube of Sabonis posterizing some guys. Dude can throw it down with the best of them.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com.../john-collins/

Huerter....hobby meh

09-08-2019, 07:22 PM	#1
brothertona Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 6,967 brothertona1	John Collins + Kevin Huerter These guys are crazy underpriced in the hobby, John Collins is one of the best big men in the league, 20 - 10 guy, do you think we will see him pick up in the hobby once the Hawks start winning?

09-08-2019, 07:26 PM	#2
drobfan8 Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 17,862 drobfan8 drobfan8	There's been plenty of 20 and 10 guys that have received little Hobby love. Dude needs to get his team a top 4 spot in the East to go crazy. __________________ Wanted, 03/04 Exquisite Base Gold Tim Duncan and 05/06 Exquisite Base Gold /25 Michael Jordan

09-09-2019, 12:18 AM	#24
dengbang Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Midwest Posts: 2,061	Numbers for bigger men usually doesn't translate into hobby love. Remember that Cousins fellow? He averaged 25 pts, 11 Reb, 5 assists, 1.5 blks, 1.5 stls two years ago. Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk __________________ I collect Johnny "Red" Kerr & Luol Deng

09-08-2019, 07:55 PM	#5
brothertona Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 6,967 brothertona1	It is exactly what I view Huerter as, I think right now he's so cheap that you can get a bunch of great stuff and if they become Golden State East I think he could become pretty hot.

09-08-2019, 07:57 PM	#6
ninjacookies Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: All the girls see the (boi)/ Look at his flips / Look at his kards / All they say is (oh boi). Posts: 57,183	So you're thinking he can be the Klay Thompson of a potential championship franchise, when he's the 3rd best player and most likely the Draymond Green of the equation? (Klay isn't exactly hobby hot either). We don't even know how good Hunter is going to be.

09-08-2019, 07:58 PM	#7
RogerGodahell Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Cardboard Enthusiast Posts: 20,783 RogerGodahell	Collins is really good. He's a rebounding and inside scoring machine who can shoot the 3. And he's only 21. He get's overshadowed by Trae and now he'll have Hunter and Huerter to contend with as well. I don't really know much about Huerter. I'm surprised how few games the Hawks are predicted to win this year. What i've seen is about 34 wins. It will be interesting to see how they do. They were a fun team to watch last year. They have a nice nucleus of young players. If they aren't competitive this year they should be real soon.

09-08-2019, 08:09 PM	#8
IceTrae11 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Atlanta Posts: 534	A rising tide lifts all boats...

09-08-2019, 08:30 PM	#10
RogerGodahell Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Cardboard Enthusiast Posts: 20,783 RogerGodahell	I don't bet but if i did i would probably take the over on Atlanta's win total of 33.5 games for the upcoming season. They had 29 wins last year. Something for all the gamblers out there to look at.

09-08-2019, 08:43 PM	#11
ninjacookies Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: All the girls see the (boi)/ Look at his flips / Look at his kards / All they say is (oh boi). Posts: 57,183	I'm actually pretty bullish on the Hawks long term, especially in this super, super weakened Eastern conference. But that's a 3-5 year project, imo. And even then, I'm unsure how Collins fits into the mix hobby wise. We saw a then top 10 'talent' in Blake Griffin helped take the Clippers to the playoffs. But it was after his hype had already subsided so it didn't help him much if at all. Collins is going on year 3..so the hobby is most likely going to expect a big jump from him. This should include an all-star nod, at least as a reserve (I mean, it is the eastern conference). If it doesn't happen then it'll be tough for him to recover...as people would have already moved onto other prospects. Similar to Julius Randle.

09-08-2019, 08:59 PM	#12
Siberian13 Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 79,417 shiller13	Collins has a chance to showcase his stuff at the dunk contest. Instead he tripped over a fake plane and embarrassed himself

09-08-2019, 09:09 PM	#13
RogerGodahell Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Cardboard Enthusiast Posts: 20,783 RogerGodahell	They need a defensive stopper. I like the pieces they've been adding the last couple years. They have a bright future ahead of them. Don't forget about Cam Reddish as well. Really good group of young talent, they just need more experience. Maybe the best group of young players in the league as a whole. I like what NO is building as well. Should be a fun NBA season, i'm gonna have to get the season pass again. Too many different teams and players i like to watch.

09-08-2019, 09:32 PM	#18
brothertona Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 6,967 brothertona1	Reddish was a monster though before he got to Duke, I think he will be a beast for the Hawks, Hunter will be a defensive stopper - I expect he probably won't score a ton - but will always get the big assignments defensively late and Atlanta already has an influx of tech money - it is the silicon valley of the south. I think Atlanta wins 45+ next year, and is a free agent destination in 2021.

09-08-2019, 10:25 PM	#19
nomarkj Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 849 nomarj	Collins rookie stuff, specifically prizm, has seen a bump over the past 3 months. I also think he is undervalued going 20-10 as a 21 year old but this year will be a big factor in how the hobby views him. I look forward to see how he progresses.

09-08-2019, 10:44 PM	#20
ninjacookies Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: All the girls see the (boi)/ Look at his flips / Look at his kards / All they say is (oh boi). Posts: 57,183	Reddish was a monster before Duke because he was another high school phenom dominating...children. The same things critics of Zion were saying, that his domination wouldn't translate at the college level with bigger kids, ended up being true of most of his teammates. Turns out Reddish was the one who struggled at the college ranks the most. His strength became a concern so he became more of a spot up shooter. Problem is he has huge shooting consistency problems like RJ. But he is super long and has elite defensive potential if he can fill out. I think the very, very optimistic hope for his offensive game is he becomes similar to Brandon Ingram.