MUST READ TRIMMING THREAD: COMC- HawkDynasty,cccardfactory,LORDSTANLEY2012|PWCC|ih8ca - Page 51

Pink Pussycat · 09-21-2019, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

All of those cards above are atrociously short in their holders.

PSA is just simply pathetic at what they do. The most basic non-subjective thing that they can do is measure a card and they don't even do that. They will happily take your money for their "service" though.

PSA needs to be stopped.

They do indeed need to be stopped.

This is just criminal. I hope the FBI takes note, and shuts them down (at least temporarily, if not permanently). What other company would be allowed to function (and thrive) with no rules, no regulation, and no ramifications or repercussions for such blatant incompetence?

And by labeling it "incompetence", I am giving them the benefit of the doubt.

3124508 on COMC · 09-21-2019, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afrobandit

Does anybody have a name behind card-guy or Investinbaseball?

card-buyer is a corporate venture bankrolled by Rich Katz and run by Johnathan Miller, Nate Johnson, Scot Maxwell, and others.

investinbaseball is Sean Bassik.

corndog · 09-21-2019, 08:02 PM

PSA Cert #22589919

1967 Topps N.L. E.R.A. Leaders #234 - Population 1 of 3

Value gain of $985.50

This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from Ebay seller peanut35.2013 as a PSA 8 for $23.50 on December 21, 2013.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999

Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $1,009.00 on April 02, 2014.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/978261

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red boxes identify trimmed left and right edges. No back image provided with first sale data.

MoreToppsPlease · 09-21-2019, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Must be nice to make $15k for cutting a piece of paper.

Analyzing why someone would pay that much of a premium for for the difference in grades would be a fun study for a grad school student.

MoreToppsPlease · 09-21-2019, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

It's scary how much money these guys are making. Need a new car? No problem, I'll just trim a card. Done.

The other end of their operation is much more interesting to me.

That is, how they worked the graded market so that people would pay a lot of money for their ill-gotten high grades.

They’ve rigged the market in two ways: 1) alter the cards to get high grades: and 2) manipulate the market so that it favors what they’re selling (high graded cards).

cking · 09-21-2019, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Analyzing why someone would pay that much of a premium for for the difference in grades would be a fun study for a grad school student.

I think it would be a better study for a clinical psychologist, because these people are nuts.

#slaves2theslab

corndog · 09-21-2019, 08:53 PM

*** I am going to post these even though there is no sign of any appearance change that I can confirm. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. Is it a lucky re-sub or funny business with PSA? Are the graders inconsistent or intentional? I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has.

.PSA Cert #22589914

1966 Topps Red Sox Rookies #558 - Population 1 of 6

Value gain of $1,006.62

This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from Ebay seller probstein123 as a SGC 8.5 for $29.69 on December 30, 2013.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b.../167487/SGC/92

Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $1,825.00 on April 02, 2014.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/978236

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Cannot see any sign of trimming...

gregggyf · 09-21-2019, 09:32 PM

Good Evening,

I have a question concerning trimming.

Leaving vintage cards out of the equation and sticking only to modern cards.

Would anyone know what are the TPG's "allowable amount/degree" of error before a card would considered/deemed altered?

Thank you very much.

signed79 · 09-21-2019, 09:37 PM

I believe Sean Bassik is on record saying he was banned by PSA - don't remember why.

MoreToppsPlease · 09-21-2019, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cking

I think it would be a better study for a clinical psychologist, because these people are nuts.

#slaves2theslab

Ha, I think clinical psychologists are the ones manipulating the market!

Rooftop · 09-21-2019, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

card-buyer is a corporate venture bankrolled by Rich Katz and run by Johnathan Miller, Nate Johnson, Scot Maxwell, and others.

investinbaseball is Sean Bassik.

base set · 09-21-2019, 10:35 PM

Maybe the allowable error is measured in a %. Of the action.

corndog · 09-22-2019, 04:31 AM

*** I am going to post these even though I cannot find a prior purchase. Card-guy actively purchased raw vintage card collections and lots and many of the cards in his PSA submission runs do not have any prior singular purchase to be found. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has.

.PSA Cert #22589912

1965 Topps Julio Navarro #563 - Population 1 of 5

Current PSA Registry Sets:
This cert is currently in a user's private set registry inventory.

Sold by PWCC on April 02, 2014 for $335.00. The PSA cert number is from a card-guy submission. I could not find a prior graded purchase so it may have been purchased raw.

corndog · 09-22-2019, 05:35 AM

*** I am going to post these even though there is no sign of any appearance change that I can confirm. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. Is it a lucky re-sub or funny business with PSA? Are the graders inconsistent or intentional? I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has.

.PSA Cert #22589911

1965 Topps Bob Miller #98 - Population 1 of 5

Value gain of $303.50

Current PSA Registry Sets:
This cert is currently in a user's private set registry inventory.

This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from Ebay seller mykuku as a PSA 8 for $12.50 on December 10, 2013.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999

Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $316.00 on April 02, 2014.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/978165

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Cannot see any sign of trimming that I can confirm.

corndog · 09-22-2019, 05:47 AM

The card that I just posted above is the 55th vintage card found so far that was graded as a 10 by PSA and sold by card-guy thru PWCC. The majority have been proven altered by trimming and the rest were either in submissions by card-guy (OCSI) that I could not find a prior sale of or could find no confirmable evidence of trimming.

All graded by the "professional authenticators" employed by PSA.

corndog · 09-22-2019, 06:00 AM

*** I am going to post these even though I cannot find a prior purchase. Card-guy actively purchased raw vintage card collections and lots and many of the cards in his PSA submission runs do not have any prior singular purchase to be found. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has.

.PSA Cert #22589907

1965 Topps Bob Friend #392 - Population 1 of 5

Current PSA Registry Sets:
This cert is currently in a user's private set registry inventory.

Sold by PWCC on April 02, 2014 for $415.00. The PSA cert number is from a card-guy submission. I could not find a prior graded purchase so it may have been purchased raw.

ken161 · 09-22-2019, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Analyzing why someone would pay that much of a premium for for the difference in grades would be a fun study for a grad school student.

I'm hoping that collectors will finally begin to wake up and realize the insanity of paying huge premiums for high-grade cards. I would think five minutes perusing this thread (and the dozens of others like it) and you would have to think twice about sinking big money into these plastic tombs.

If collectors don't change their buying habits, this insanity will never end. Even if the current crop of card doctors are shut down, other crooks will step forward and fill the demand for these PSA registry "gems."

corndog · 09-22-2019, 07:17 AM

*** I am going to post these even though there is no sign of any appearance change that I can confirm. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. Is it a lucky re-sub or funny business with PSA? Are the graders inconsistent or intentional? I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has.

.PSA Cert #22589874

1961 Topps Fred Green #181 - Population 1 of 2

Value gain of $828.56

This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from Ebay seller just_collect as a PSA 8 for $8.44 on December 08, 2013.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999

Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $837.00 on April 01, 2014.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/977980

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Cannot see any sign of trimming that I can confirm.

Very noticeable print flaw in the green and blurred image due to the yellow ink very out of register = PSA 10.

corndog · 09-22-2019, 08:44 AM

*** I am going to post these even though I cannot find a prior purchase. Card-guy actively purchased raw vintage card collections and lots and many of the cards in his PSA submission runs do not have any prior singular purchase to be found. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has.

.PSA Cert #22589967

1973 O-Pee-Chee Dave Schultz #166 - Population 1 of 4

Current PSA Registry Sets:
This cert is currently in a user's private set registry inventory.

Sold by PWCC on April 10, 2014 for $461.01. The PSA cert number is from a card-guy submission. I could not find a prior graded purchase so it may have been purchased raw.

corndog · 09-22-2019, 08:48 AM

*** I am going to post these even though I cannot find a prior purchase. Card-guy actively purchased raw vintage card collections and lots and many of the cards in his PSA submission runs do not have any prior singular purchase to be found. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has.

.PSA Cert #22589966

1972 Topps Stan Mikita #56 - Population 1 of 29

Sold by PWCC on April 10, 2014 for $83.50. The PSA cert number is from a card-guy submission. I could not find a prior graded purchase so it may have been purchased raw.

corndog · 09-22-2019, 09:09 AM

PSA Cert #22589919

1966 Rat Patrol The Rat Patrol Had Eluded #30 - Population 1 of 1

Value gain of $74.88

This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from Ebay seller tbergh as a PSA 8 for $15.00 on December 26, 2013.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/n...0/199601/PSA/8

Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $89.88 on April 11, 2014.
PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/981641

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed top edge.

superdan49 · 09-22-2019, 09:18 AM

This ad for Card-Buyer is on page 120 of the new October 2019 issue of PSA's Sports Market Report (SMR):

In fairness (and I always try to be fair) these SMR magazines are likely put together a couple months in advance, save of course for the price guide section. (The same ad appeared on page 120 of the September SMR). However, it is very troubling for a couple of reasons:

There is no name, address, or phone number associated with this ad. All of the other ads in SMR can be sourced to a named auction house or dealer. I've never seen another anonymous "collector" take out a full page SMR ad in the decade I've been receiving the magazine. Why is this one different?

"Private collector... NOT A DEALER"— this a lie, in all caps, no less. Card-Buyer is dealing cards through PWCC and COMC, a good number of them trimmed to the tune of thousands of dollars in illicit profits.

Corndog and 3124508 have done excellent work in this thread proving that Card-Buyer is a purchaser of PSA graded cards which then end up trimmed and graded higher. Given that many purchases were undoubtedly made by Card-Buyer through such ads, it begs the question: How many of the suspicious vintage PSA 10s that were graded by Johnathan Miller and associates will never be exposed because they were bought privately through ads such as this?

These ads support a criminal operation, in my opinion, and should be banned from future publication in SMR.

PeachStateCards · 09-22-2019, 09:33 AM

I received my card grades several days ago for some older cards that were submitted to PSA. Before I get flamed, I have learned from all of you to stay away from PSA going forward. Lesson learned, won't make the same mistake twice. They represented my best cards from the 60's, 70's, and 80's and I must say that I was disappointed at some of the grading. Seemed very tough with the final grade. I had two cards get an "altered stock" grade and several very knowledgeable people stated that was probably due to cards being a the screw down holders, which they were spot on. But yet, PSA will allow so many of these obviously trimmed cards to get through and receive high grades. They can spot my cards which have been sitting in a card holder for many years, but yet miss cards that have been obviously doctored. Something seems very wrong in this situation.

This thread has definitely made me think twice about purchasing any card that has very high grades. My confidence is shaken by what is being shown. Who wants to be taken advantage of to the tune of hundreds or thousands of dollars. I can only imagine how some of the victims must feel knowing that their prized cards are a sham. What a punch in the gut!!

Rjcollings1973 · 09-22-2019, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken161

I'm hoping that collectors will finally begin to wake up and realize the insanity of paying huge premiums for high-grade cards. I would think five minutes perusing this thread (and the dozens of others like it) and you would have to think twice about sinking big money into these plastic tombs.

If collectors don't change their buying habits, this insanity will never end. Even if the current crop of card doctors are shut down, other crooks will step forward and fill the demand for these PSA registry "gems."

I am guessing 99.9% of collectors look at some/a lot of these cards and just say “I don’t buy that stuff” and move on” so it’s going to have take more than that.

I think we have seen a big trust factor lost in grading companies already.
How that effects the market moving forward is the curious part.

I am sure some of the super high end collectors are nervous about the slabbed cards they have.
Collectors such as my self that rip cases and grade PC Cards probably not as much. Just my opinion and like others it has zero weight in the hobby. When the masses change that’s when we will see real change.

base set · 09-22-2019, 10:09 AM

I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I am waiting for a new grading company to emerge, or for one of the existing Big 2, and/or the one in 3rd place, to address things in a serious way ("it's only 0.1%" is not a serious response, at all). I don't collect these cards but I would be a fool to sell some valuable cards (where grading fees are a small % of eventual sale price) raw just to let someone else reap the profits from a gamble on the potential high grade. And what I really need is authentication of cards already being re-printed today, and eventually to be completely mastered by probably Chinese counterfitters.

But simultaneously, if a new company does emerge, or law enforcement essentially forces a complete reset upon this obviously shady industry (seems to be what it is going to take), the date of grading will become part of the value of a high-end card, in my opinion.

So aside from holding back my potentially grade-able cards from the grading companies, there seems to be little else anyone can do.

Grading will not go away and we will not go back to verbal assurances of "NM+", whatever the heck that is. People want outside validation of their decisions, and when people with money to spend want something, someone will step up and supply it to them.

That, and I don't know who it was on here earlier this year that related a quote from a friend about the Registry system, but it was the most succinct explanation of this whole deal: "The Registry is the crack cocaine of this hobby."

09-21-2019, 08:02 PM	#1253
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,835	PSA Cert #22589919 1967 Topps N.L. E.R.A. Leaders #234 - Population 1 of 3 Value gain of $985.50 This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from Ebay seller peanut35.2013 as a PSA 8 for $23.50 on December 21, 2013. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999 Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $1,009.00 on April 02, 2014. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/978261 Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red boxes identify trimmed left and right edges. No back image provided with first sale data. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

09-21-2019, 08:53 PM	#1257
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,835	* I am going to post these even though there is no sign of any appearance change that I can confirm. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. Is it a lucky re-sub or funny business with PSA? Are the graders inconsistent or intentional? I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has. .PSA Cert #22589914 1966 Topps Red Sox Rookies #558 - Population 1 of 6 Value gain of $1,006.62 This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from Ebay seller probstein123 as a SGC 8.5 for $29.69 on December 30, 2013. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b.../167487/SGC/92 Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $1,825.00 on April 02, 2014. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/978236 Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Cannot see any sign of trimming... __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.**

09-22-2019, 04:31 AM	#1263
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,835	* I am going to post these even though I cannot find a prior purchase. Card-guy actively purchased raw vintage card collections and lots and many of the cards in his PSA submission runs do not have any prior singular purchase to be found. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has. .PSA Cert #22589912 1965 Topps Julio Navarro #563 - Population 1 of 5 Current PSA Registry Sets: This cert is currently in a user's private set registry inventory. Sold by PWCC on April 02, 2014 for $335.00. The PSA cert number is from a card-guy submission. I could not find a prior graded purchase so it may have been purchased raw. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.**

09-22-2019, 05:35 AM	#1264
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,835	* I am going to post these even though there is no sign of any appearance change that I can confirm. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. Is it a lucky re-sub or funny business with PSA? Are the graders inconsistent or intentional? I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has. .PSA Cert #22589911 1965 Topps Bob Miller #98 - Population 1 of 5 Value gain of $303.50 Current PSA Registry Sets: This cert is currently in a user's private set registry inventory. This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from Ebay seller mykuku as a PSA 8 for $12.50 on December 10, 2013. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999 Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $316.00 on April 02, 2014. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/978165 Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Cannot see any sign of trimming that I can confirm. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.**

09-22-2019, 05:47 AM	#1265
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,835	The card that I just posted above is the 55th vintage card found so far that was graded as a 10 by PSA and sold by card-guy thru PWCC. The majority have been proven altered by trimming and the rest were either in submissions by card-guy (OCSI) that I could not find a prior sale of or could find no confirmable evidence of trimming. All graded by the "professional authenticators" employed by PSA. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

09-21-2019, 09:32 PM	#1258
gregggyf Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 348 gregggyf	Good Evening, I have a question concerning trimming. Leaving vintage cards out of the equation and sticking only to modern cards. Would anyone know what are the TPG's "allowable amount/degree" of error before a card would considered/deemed altered? Thank you very much.

09-21-2019, 09:37 PM	#1259
signed79 Member Join Date: May 2019 Location: USA Posts: 513	I believe Sean Bassik is on record saying he was banned by PSA - don't remember why.

09-21-2019, 10:35 PM	#1262
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,642	Maybe the allowable error is measured in a %. Of the action.

09-22-2019, 06:00 AM	#1266
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,835	* I am going to post these even though I cannot find a prior purchase. Card-guy actively purchased raw vintage card collections and lots and many of the cards in his PSA submission runs do not have any prior singular purchase to be found. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has. .PSA Cert #22589907 1965 Topps Bob Friend #392 - Population 1 of 5 Current PSA Registry Sets: This cert is currently in a user's private set registry inventory. Sold by PWCC on April 02, 2014 for $415.00. The PSA cert number is from a card-guy submission. I could not find a prior graded purchase so it may have been purchased raw. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.**

09-22-2019, 07:17 AM	#1268
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,835	* I am going to post these even though there is no sign of any appearance change that I can confirm. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. Is it a lucky re-sub or funny business with PSA? Are the graders inconsistent or intentional? I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has. .PSA Cert #22589874 1961 Topps Fred Green #181 - Population 1 of 2 Value gain of $828.56 This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from Ebay seller just_collect as a PSA 8 for $8.44 on December 08, 2013. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999 Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $837.00 on April 01, 2014. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/977980 Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Cannot see any sign of trimming that I can confirm. Very noticeable print flaw in the green and blurred image due to the yellow ink very out of register = PSA 10. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.**

09-22-2019, 08:44 AM	#1269
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,835	* I am going to post these even though I cannot find a prior purchase. Card-guy actively purchased raw vintage card collections and lots and many of the cards in his PSA submission runs do not have any prior singular purchase to be found. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has. .PSA Cert #22589967 1973 O-Pee-Chee Dave Schultz #166 - Population 1 of 4 Current PSA Registry Sets: This cert is currently in a user's private set registry inventory. Sold by PWCC on April 10, 2014 for $461.01. The PSA cert number is from a card-guy submission. I could not find a prior graded purchase so it may have been purchased raw. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.**

09-22-2019, 08:48 AM	#1270
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,835	* I am going to post these even though I cannot find a prior purchase. Card-guy actively purchased raw vintage card collections and lots and many of the cards in his PSA submission runs do not have any prior singular purchase to be found. I have come across too many of these to be considered an anomaly. I just don't believe, in my personal opinion, that anyone else submitting these vintage cards would receive a 10 with regularity like card-guy has. .PSA Cert #22589966 1972 Topps Stan Mikita #56 - Population 1 of 29 Sold by PWCC on April 10, 2014 for $83.50. The PSA cert number is from a card-guy submission. I could not find a prior graded purchase so it may have been purchased raw. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.**

09-22-2019, 09:09 AM	#1271
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,835	PSA Cert #22589919 1966 Rat Patrol The Rat Patrol Had Eluded #30 - Population 1 of 1 Value gain of $74.88 This card was purchased by Ebay ID card-buyer from Ebay seller tbergh as a PSA 8 for $15.00 on December 26, 2013. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/n...0/199601/PSA/8 Same card was sold by PWCC (Brent and Betsy Huigens) as a PSA 10 for $89.88 on April 11, 2014. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/981641 Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red box identifies trimmed top edge. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

09-22-2019, 09:18 AM	#1272
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,272	This ad for Card-Buyer is on page 120 of the new October 2019 issue of PSA's Sports Market Report (SMR): In fairness (and I always try to be fair) these SMR magazines are likely put together a couple months in advance, save of course for the price guide section. (The same ad appeared on page 120 of the September SMR). However, it is very troubling for a couple of reasons: There is no name, address, or phone number associated with this ad. All of the other ads in SMR can be sourced to a named auction house or dealer. I've never seen another anonymous "collector" take out a full page SMR ad in the decade I've been receiving the magazine. Why is this one different? "Private collector... NOT A DEALER"— this a lie, in all caps, no less. Card-Buyer is dealing cards through PWCC and COMC, a good number of them trimmed to the tune of thousands of dollars in illicit profits. Corndog and 3124508 have done excellent work in this thread proving that Card-Buyer is a purchaser of PSA graded cards which then end up trimmed and graded higher. Given that many purchases were undoubtedly made by Card-Buyer through such ads, it begs the question: How many of the suspicious vintage PSA 10s that were graded by Johnathan Miller and associates will never be exposed because they were bought privately through ads such as this? These ads support a criminal operation, in my opinion, and should be banned from future publication in SMR. __________________ Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line Last edited by superdan49; 09-22-2019 at 09:21 AM.

09-22-2019, 09:33 AM	#1273
PeachStateCards Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 32	I received my card grades several days ago for some older cards that were submitted to PSA. Before I get flamed, I have learned from all of you to stay away from PSA going forward. Lesson learned, won't make the same mistake twice. They represented my best cards from the 60's, 70's, and 80's and I must say that I was disappointed at some of the grading. Seemed very tough with the final grade. I had two cards get an "altered stock" grade and several very knowledgeable people stated that was probably due to cards being a the screw down holders, which they were spot on. But yet, PSA will allow so many of these obviously trimmed cards to get through and receive high grades. They can spot my cards which have been sitting in a card holder for many years, but yet miss cards that have been obviously doctored. Something seems very wrong in this situation. This thread has definitely made me think twice about purchasing any card that has very high grades. My confidence is shaken by what is being shown. Who wants to be taken advantage of to the tune of hundreds or thousands of dollars. I can only imagine how some of the victims must feel knowing that their prized cards are a sham. What a punch in the gut!!

09-22-2019, 10:09 AM	#1275
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,642	I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I am waiting for a new grading company to emerge, or for one of the existing Big 2, and/or the one in 3rd place, to address things in a serious way ("it's only 0.1%" is not a serious response, at all). I don't collect these cards but I would be a fool to sell some valuable cards (where grading fees are a small % of eventual sale price) raw just to let someone else reap the profits from a gamble on the potential high grade. And what I really need is authentication of cards already being re-printed today, and eventually to be completely mastered by probably Chinese counterfitters. But simultaneously, if a new company does emerge, or law enforcement essentially forces a complete reset upon this obviously shady industry (seems to be what it is going to take), the date of grading will become part of the value of a high-end card, in my opinion. So aside from holding back my potentially grade-able cards from the grading companies, there seems to be little else anyone can do. Grading will not go away and we will not go back to verbal assurances of "NM+", whatever the heck that is. People want outside validation of their decisions, and when people with money to spend want something, someone will step up and supply it to them. That, and I don't know who it was on here earlier this year that related a quote from a friend about the Registry system, but it was the most succinct explanation of this whole deal: "The Registry is the crack cocaine of this hobby."