Is Kershaw the least-clutch, greatest choke-artist of all time? - Page 2

spuds1961 · 10-10-2019, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discostu

Clearly a recap is needed.

Kershaw came in, struck out Pederson on 3 pitches. His night should have been over, great job. All you can reasonably expect from a starter being pulled into relief after a staggered bullpen session.

Kershaw comes back in the 8th.

The 8th rolls around, Kershaw is still in, even through Maeda is ready. First pitch ball...then the homer by Rendon. Ok, time to bring in the Maeda.

That's on Roberts.

Next pitch, Soto launches it for another homer. Game tied.

There was zero need to bring Kershaw into the game, let alone for the 8th after clearing the last out in the 7th.

That's on Roberts.

Not sure if Roberts understood that Game 5s are built for knee jerk reactions. Act quickly, there may not be tomorrow.

Joe Kelly comes in in the 9th, retires the side. Great game.

Kelly comes back in for the 10th even though the bullpen is ready, that's on Roberts.

Joe Kelly struggles, lead off walk. His night should be over. That's on Roberts.

Rendon blasts a ball that gets stuck in the wall for a double. Kelly's night should be over. That's on Roberts.

Kolarek is warmed up, ready to take on Soto...the only batter he'd be expected to face before turning it over the Kenley Jansen. Intentional walk from Kelly. Kelly's night should be over, leaving the bases loaded for Jansen.

Joe Kelly, meet Howie Kendrick. Dave Roberts, meet your legacy.

7-3 Nationals.

Ok, now Roberts yanks Kelly, Kelly's night is finally over.

That's on Roberts.

Kershaw isn't the same pitcher he was years ago and he's never been feared in the postseason, but this is on Roberts.

Roberts is the mastermind, or at least executed the commands of the masterminds.

Perfect assessment thank you.

awz50 · 10-10-2019, 09:11 AM

Kershaw should never be around a postseason game again

UD HighGloss · 10-10-2019, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soxfanguy

Should Dave Roberts be fired you think?

If anyone hires him after this I'd give a good chuckle. He's proven he can single-handedly blow the biggest post-season games repeatedly.

wood minis · 10-10-2019, 09:34 AM

This one is on Roberts, as most analysts are saying.

Even if you keep Kershaw in to give up Rendon's HR, why isn't Kolarek in to face Soto?

oddstuff · 10-10-2019, 09:36 AM

Don't know who saw the post game commentary by Pedro Martinez which seem spot on. He said that the Nats, after seeing 95-97 mph fastballs from Buehler, the 89-91 stuff from Kershaw is nothing. At most, Kershaw should have just faced that one batter he got out. Also, Roberts basically laid out his pitching game plan to the media and the Nats...so the Nats knew they just needed to get Buehler out of the game. Why tell your opponent exactly how you plan to beat them?? I hope finally this means Roberts will be gone.

Aside from baseball, Kershaw is a good guy. He and his wife are involved in building a school in Africa in partnership with this group:

https://www.ariseafrica.org/kershawschallenge

mfw13 · 10-10-2019, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7hTarget

Maybe Dave Roberts should have brought in a relief pitcher in a 3-1 game and not a starter....

I think this is the crucial strategic question that needs to analyzed....the idea that good starters are better relief options than existing relievers.

In this series it backfired both times it was tried (Corbin for WSH in Game 3, Kershaw for LA in Game 5), but it's been a successful strategy in other instances (for example, MadBum in Game 7 of the 2014 WS).

Would love to see some aggregate data on how well starters do as relievers in the playoffs.

wood minis · 10-10-2019, 09:50 AM

Corbin had a nice bounce back relief stint.

base set · 10-10-2019, 09:58 AM

Worked for the Nationals in Game 2.

mfw13 · 10-10-2019, 09:59 AM

It should also be noted that prior to last night, Kershaw had a sub-3.00 ERA and sub-1.00 WHIP as a playoff reliever.

mhuhn23 · 10-10-2019, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfw13

It should also be noted that prior to last night, Kershaw had a sub-3.00 ERA and sub-1.00 WHIP as a playoff reliever.

As a reliever those aren’t good numbers. Fantastic for an SP, not for RP.

Dodgerfan74 · 10-10-2019, 10:14 AM

Maeda does pretty good in the playoffs as a reliever.

robert67 · 10-10-2019, 10:16 AM

Nevermind.

jubei777 · 10-10-2019, 10:18 AM

Roberts need to go. Serious mismanagement of the game last night.

jcmel323 · 10-10-2019, 10:46 AM

Dave Roberts should be fired. No question!
I'm no Dodgers fan and was angry af... yet Roberts had no emotion at the dugout. Dude do something!

Kershaw should be traded. Even though he's a legend in reg season, LA has given him a ton of chances to redeem in postseason and NADA

LC2nine10 · 10-10-2019, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmel323

Dave Roberts should be fired. No question!
I'm no Dodgers fan and was angry af... yet Roberts had no emotion at the dugout. Dude do something!

Kershaw should be traded. Even though he's a legend in reg season, LA has given him a ton of chances to redeem in postseason and NADA

2x62 plus injury history wont. Get a great return.

BestRCs · 10-10-2019, 11:13 AM

For those who voted no i'd like to know who's a bigger choker.

Kershaw is automatic. I've never seen anyone so automatic.

He's like the Jordan of choking.

awz50 · 10-10-2019, 11:15 AM

Robert's wont be fired

The dodgers are stuck in there own ways

bradical · 10-10-2019, 11:17 AM

Death.
Taxes.
Clayton Kershaw self-imploding in October.

Bassplayah101 · 10-10-2019, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattsurewood

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This is awesome

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Shepsspot · 10-10-2019, 11:42 AM

Answer to the question is the 2004 Yankees.

rats60 · 10-10-2019, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BestRCs

For those who voted no i'd like to know who's a bigger choker.

Kershaw is automatic. I've never seen anyone so automatic.

He's like the Jordan of choking.

I would like to know this too. 6 of the last 7 years, the Dodgers elimination from the post season is directly on Kershaw's shoulders. What other player has that kind of history of choking? I think people are voting with their wallets and not their heads.

coachnip13 · 10-10-2019, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

I would like to know this too. 6 of the last 7 years, the Dodgers elimination from the post season is directly on Kershaw's shoulders. What other player has that kind of history of choking? I think people are voting with their wallets and not their heads.

Directly? Ease up on the hyperbole.

Geoff G · 10-10-2019, 11:58 AM

Life long dodger fan here .. I’ve always had kershaws back .. until last years WS game 5. I was there for it too (foolish me) .. Ive always defended him saying a lot of his numbers were inflated because the relievers behind him always allowed the inherited runners to score or they had no one else to relieve him so they had to ride him to the point of no return. I am no longer a kershaw defender .. dude is straight trash in the post season.

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jstephens24 · 10-10-2019, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhuhn23

As a reliever those aren’t good numbers. Fantastic for an SP, not for RP.

what? A sub 1 WHIP is very good. There were only 9 pitchers who had atleast a save in the top 47 who had a 1 or under WHIP

cornelljw · 10-10-2019, 12:08 PM

Im getting real sick and tired of Kershaw. Cant wait until he retires

View Poll Results: Greatest Choke Artist of all time
Yes	98	59.76%
No	66	40.24%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

10-10-2019, 09:11 AM	#27
awz50 Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: New Hampshire>>>Arizona>>>>Florida Posts: 33,336 awz50	Kershaw should never be around a postseason game again __________________ Collecting Baseball Hof Autographs 248/351 Blowouts Official Red Sox face of the franchise Eduardo Rodriguez Super Collector

10-10-2019, 10:16 AM	#37
robert67 Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,028	Nevermind. Last edited by robert67; 10-10-2019 at 06:44 PM.

10-10-2019, 11:13 AM	#41
BestRCs Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,471 BestRCs	For those who voted no i'd like to know who's a bigger choker. Kershaw is automatic. I've never seen anyone so automatic. He's like the Jordan of choking. __________________ LF Rare/Cool Ichiro's (2001-2012): Especially - 2001-04 UD era autos - 2001 RC's #/100 or less. - 2002-12 Refractor's #/25 or less. - 2001-12 Cool Patch cards <50

10-10-2019, 11:15 AM	#42
awz50 Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: New Hampshire>>>Arizona>>>>Florida Posts: 33,336 awz50	Robert's wont be fired The dodgers are stuck in there own ways __________________ Collecting Baseball Hof Autographs 248/351 Blowouts Official Red Sox face of the franchise Eduardo Rodriguez Super Collector

10-10-2019, 09:34 AM	#29
wood minis Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Northeastern USA Posts: 4,093	This one is on Roberts, as most analysts are saying. Even if you keep Kershaw in to give up Rendon's HR, why isn't Kolarek in to face Soto?

10-10-2019, 09:36 AM	#30
oddstuff Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: CA Posts: 5,145	Don't know who saw the post game commentary by Pedro Martinez which seem spot on. He said that the Nats, after seeing 95-97 mph fastballs from Buehler, the 89-91 stuff from Kershaw is nothing. At most, Kershaw should have just faced that one batter he got out. Also, Roberts basically laid out his pitching game plan to the media and the Nats...so the Nats knew they just needed to get Buehler out of the game. Why tell your opponent exactly how you plan to beat them?? I hope finally this means Roberts will be gone. Aside from baseball, Kershaw is a good guy. He and his wife are involved in building a school in Africa in partnership with this group: https://www.ariseafrica.org/kershawschallenge

10-10-2019, 09:50 AM	#32
wood minis Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Northeastern USA Posts: 4,093	Corbin had a nice bounce back relief stint.

10-10-2019, 09:58 AM	#33
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,470	Worked for the Nationals in Game 2.

10-10-2019, 09:59 AM	#34
mfw13 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 17,447	It should also be noted that prior to last night, Kershaw had a sub-3.00 ERA and sub-1.00 WHIP as a playoff reliever.

10-10-2019, 10:14 AM	#36
Dodgerfan74 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 3,355	Maeda does pretty good in the playoffs as a reliever.

10-10-2019, 10:18 AM	#38
jubei777 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 4,430 jubei777	Roberts need to go. Serious mismanagement of the game last night.

10-10-2019, 10:46 AM	#39
jcmel323 Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 2,934	Dave Roberts should be fired. No question! I'm no Dodgers fan and was angry af... yet Roberts had no emotion at the dugout. Dude do something! Kershaw should be traded. Even though he's a legend in reg season, LA has given him a ton of chances to redeem in postseason and NADA

10-10-2019, 11:17 AM	#43
bradical Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,409	Death. Taxes. Clayton Kershaw self-imploding in October. __________________ :turkey: :turkey: :turkey:

10-10-2019, 11:42 AM	#45
Shepsspot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 5,343	Answer to the question is the 2004 Yankees. __________________ http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r264/shepsspot/

10-10-2019, 11:58 AM	#48
Geoff G Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Ventura Posts: 1,434	Life long dodger fan here .. I’ve always had kershaws back .. until last years WS game 5. I was there for it too (foolish me) .. Ive always defended him saying a lot of his numbers were inflated because the relievers behind him always allowed the inherited runners to score or they had no one else to relieve him so they had to ride him to the point of no return. I am no longer a kershaw defender .. dude is straight trash in the post season. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10-10-2019, 12:08 PM	#50
cornelljw Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Socal Posts: 1,545 cornelljw cornelljw	Im getting real sick and tired of Kershaw. Cant wait until he retires __________________ https://www.instagram.com/cornelljw10/ PC: Kobe, Terry Bradshaw, Iverson, Lamelo, topps chrome refractors of studs, semi studs and stars