PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[pip]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

In case you didn't browse Net54 today, it appears that PWCC lawyer Jeff Lichtman is saying that the card is being "addressed" in post #714. The says the same about the Bobby Hull a couple of posts later.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...269583&page=15

There are going to be a whole lot more high value cards that need to be "addressed" in the coming months. I predict PWCC will run out of money at some point....especially as awareness of the massive, multi-million dollar fraud continues to increase and there's a run on the bank.

Could end up looking like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPkJH6BT7dM

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by pip

This may someday be a reality. There are some in the hobby (besides BODA) who are working to "out" all the altered cards. More about this will be known in the next several months.

Following.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by PWCC Marketplace

We are obviously very aware of the issues surrounding the cards submitted to us by Gary Moser. First, we want to apologize to all those who have been affected by the purchasing of trimmed or altered cards. We are not disappearing or burying our heads in the sand about this. Next, we are presently working with both PSA and law enforcement to ensure that all affected cards are brought to light and this information makes its way to our customers. We understand that we are responsible for our part in this mess and will do all that we can to make it right in connection with Moser-submitted cards as well as other submitters who may have altered cards of which we auctioned. We understand how difficult it is to be patient through this process but we are working through this as quickly as we can at the direction of counsel and the appropriate authorities. Finally, in response to these recent findings, we are no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards.

We are very sorry for the trouble that has occurred and will work to regain your trust.

PWCC statement on Blowout claiming they were "no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards" was from June 2, 2019.

The trimmed Duke Snider card from Moser's infamous whitman111 eBay account uncovered by Corndog in Post #5693 was sold by PWCC on August 26, 2019.

This is another black eye for their brand.

[pip]

Originally Posted by superdan49

PWCC statement on Blowout claiming they were "no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards" was from June 2, 2019.

The trimmed Duke Snider card from Moser's infamous whitman111 eBay account uncovered by Corndog in Post #5693 was sold by PWCC on August 26, 2019.

This is another black eye for their brand.

A complete lie. They cannot stop defrauding customers. Even while under FBI investigation. I wonder if Lichtman is having second thoughts about defending them.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by superdan49

PWCC statement on Blowout claiming they were "no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards" was from June 2, 2019.

The trimmed Duke Snider card from Moser's infamous whitman111 eBay account uncovered by Corndog in Post #5693 was sold by PWCC on August 26, 2019.

This is another black eye for their brand.

Just a black eye?

I don't know why anyone would ever trust them again to begin with.

They're probably trying to sneak these out because they're desperate for cash.

[charnick]

Originally Posted by pip

A complete lie. They cannot stop defrauding customers. Even while under FBI investigation. I wonder if Lichtman is having second thoughts about defending them.

from his insulting language on Net54, sounds like they’re a match made in trimmed card heaven.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by superdan49

PWCC statement on Blowout claiming they were "no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards" was from June 2, 2019.

The trimmed Duke Snider card from Moser's infamous whitman111 eBay account uncovered by Corndog in Post #5693 was sold by PWCC on August 26, 2019.

This is another black eye for their brand.

Wasn't there a running theory (fact?) that the Whitman111 (Moser account) was also being used by Brent/Betsy? Maybe that would provide PWCC the wiggle room to still continue to list these fraudulent cards associated with the Moser account?

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Wasn't there a running theory (fact?) that the Whitman111 (Moser account) was also being used by Brent/Betsy? Maybe that would provide PWCC the wiggle room to still continue to list these fraudulent cards associated with the Moser account?

There was some information which emerged regarding the sharing of the now-closed whitman111 account. The FBI has all the facts about this.

[Bruins1993]

UPDATED with higher resolution images of card before being trimmed.

***This card is not tied to OCSI or PWCC/Moser that I am aware of. I am posting it here for now since I see no reason to begin a new thread.***

Heritage Auctions will have a record of who consigned the SGC 9 card.

SGC Cert # 3845527

1934 Goudey #37 LOU GEHRIG

Value gain estimated at $55,199.00 in today's market using an average PSA 8 Price of $28,801.00 (VCP average).

This card has an old record / image of being purchased in a Legendary Auction as a PSA 8 (Cert # 08160100) on March 17, 2001 for $16,812.00 with auction description that included:
“The lower left corner has the slightest hint of wear. The card is centered 45/55 top to bottom and 60/40 left to right.”

This card has a record / image of being purchased in a Legendary Auction as a PSA 8 (Cert # 11178363) on March 5, 2010 for $17,775.00.

*** Between PSA Cert # 11178363 Legendary sale in 2010 and SGC Cert # 3945527 sale in 2019 the card was trimmed on left and bottom edges ***

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a SGC 9 (Cert # 3845527) on April 18, 2019 for $84,000.00.

Heritage link: https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1.../50012-51451.s

On Heritage Auctions site (HA.com) there is a “Make offer to Owner” buttom presently visible (as of October 27th 12PM ET) and below it states “This item's Owner is proactively entertaining Offers.”

Red circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red boxes identify trimmed left and bottom edges.

PSA 8 (Cert # 11178363) image from VCP* of March 2010 Legendary sale:

SGC 9 (Cert # 3845527) image from HA.com on April 18, 2019:



PSA 8 (Cert # 11178363) back image from Card Target of March 2010 Legendary sale:

SGC 9 (Cert # 3845527) back image from HA.com of April 18, 2019 sale:

[MoreToppsPlease]

Good god.

Always get cheated.

[ThoseBackPages]

LOL! Nice

[pip]

There's no way someone is going to break that card out of a PSA 8 holder and trim two edges unless it's a "sure thing" that SGC grades it. I have a good idea who might be behind this one:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...36&postcount=1

Anyone else notice all the high valued altered/trimmed cards ending up in SGC holders? I don't think this is accidental. Nor do I think the doctored cards were sent to PSA first.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by pip

There's no way someone is going to break that card out of a PSA 8 holder and trim two edges unless it's a "sure thing" that SGC grades it. I have a good idea who might be behind this one:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...36&postcount=1

Anyone else notice all the high valued altered/trimmed cards ending up in SGC holders? I don't think this is accidental. Nor do I think the doctored cards were sent to PSA first.

Heritage Auctions?
A good percentage of the key sports people at Heritage, have backgrounds with SGC.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by pip

There's no way someone is going to break that card out of a PSA 8 holder and trim two edges unless it's a "sure thing" that SGC grades it. I have a good idea who might be behind this one:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...36&postcount=1

Anyone else notice all the high valued altered/trimmed cards ending up in SGC holders? I don't think this is accidental. Nor do I think the doctored cards were sent to PSA first.

Can you post what the allegations or a recap from that link here. It has "radio" in the hyperlink so it is blocked for me here at work. Thanks.

Nevermind that is just the "alleged" insider letter. Isn't the consensus that the letter is fake?

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by pip

There's no way someone is going to break that card out of a PSA 8 holder and trim two edges unless it's a "sure thing" that SGC grades it. I have a good idea who might be behind this one:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...36&postcount=1

Anyone else notice all the high valued altered/trimmed cards ending up in SGC holders? I don't think this is accidental. Nor do I think the doctored cards were sent to PSA first.

You're just piecing this together now? Man, nothing gets by you. Funny how I have to drop multiple hints before you can put 1 + 1 together and yet you're on here calling me clueless. Pull your head out of your arse.

Where did people from Mastro go after they shut down? Where are they now? Why has all of this been steered directly toward PSA and PWCC from the beginning? Who benefits? Who are all the members of the LIM and where are they now? How are they all connected, working together, and yet NONE of them have been called out for card altering yet? How many items in Heritage don't have a consignor?

When you know the answers to those questions you can come back and continue to pretend to be a hobby insider. For now, just respond to this with some ambiguous attack against me that has no real teeth since that's all you've got.

Arthur

[pip]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

You're just piecing this together now? Man, nothing gets by you. Funny how I have to drop multiple hints before you can put 1 + 1 together and yet you're on here calling me clueless. Pull your head out of your arse.

Where did people from Mastro go after they shut down? Where are they now? Why has all of this been steered directly toward PSA and PWCC from the beginning? Who benefits? Who are all the members of the LIM and where are they now? How are they all connected, working together, and yet NONE of them have been called out for card altering yet? How many items in Heritage don't have a consignor?

When you know the answers to those questions you can come back and continue to pretend to be a hobby insider. For now, just respond to this with some ambiguous attack against me that has no real teeth since that's all you've got.

Arthur

That was totally random.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by pip

That was totally random.

It shouldn't have been. You've taken countless unprovoked shots at me throughout numerous threads and made unfounded claims about my intentions and lack of hobby knowledge. If you thought I was going to sit by while you pretended to "discover" this angle on your own you were sorely mistaken.

Arthur

[hatchd]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

You're just piecing this together now? Man, nothing gets by you. Funny how I have to drop multiple hints before you can put 1 + 1 together and yet you're on here calling me clueless. Pull your head out of your arse.

Maybe instead of dropping multiple hints you could just say what you mean like an actual adult and then things like this wouldn’t happen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pip]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

It shouldn't have been. You've taken countless unprovoked shots at me throughout numerous threads and made unfounded claims about my intentions and lack of hobby knowledge. If you thought I was going to sit by while you pretended to "discover" this angle on your own you were sorely mistaken.

Arthur

Not countless. Just two.

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:41697325

1948 Leaf #38 Ted Kluszewski PSA 5.5 to PSA 5
Alteration types: Trimming

Sold on 10/9/2017 as a PSA 5.5 by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser's eBay ID) for $93.77
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 11/8/2018 as a PSA 5 for $102.50
Final price: $102.50
Value gain: $8.73


Huge border trims on this 1948 Leaf card. Look at the upper print spot on the front left border, circled in pink. PSA downgraded it a half grade. The number of yet-to-be researched cards won by w***1 is incredible.



PSA 5.5: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1555874
PSA 5: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1863772

[Rooftop]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Heritage Auctions?
A good percentage of the key sports people at Heritage, have backgrounds with SGC.

Ok, so Heritage & SGC is dirty?

Shocking..

Where does MHCC rank on that list?

[pip]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Heritage Auctions?
A good percentage of the key sports people at Heritage, have backgrounds with SGC.

I don't believe the trimming and alteration of the PSA 8 1934 Gehrig has anything to do with Heritage or employees with Heritage who once were graders with SGC a long time ago. Nor does it have anything to do with former Mastro employees.

[ken161]

First of all, great job tracking this down. This is one of the most egregious cases of fraud I've seen in these card doctoring threads, which is saying something.

Secondly, if I understand correctly, the card was originally in a PSA8 holder but was cracked out and resubmitted. It then received another grade of PSA8. Later the card was cracked out of its second (at least) PSA8 holder, trimmed, and sent to SGC where it was graded an SGC9. Unbelievable.

I wonder how many other big money vintage cards have sordid pasts like this 1934 Goudey Gehrig? It wouldn't surprise me if BODA has just scratched the surface.

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

UPDATED with higher resolution images of card before being trimmed.

***This card is not tied to OCSI or PWCC/Moser that I am aware of. I am posting it here for now since I see no reason to begin a new thread.***

Heritage Auctions will have a record of who consigned the SGC 9 card.

SGC Cert # 3845527

1934 Goudey #37 LOU GEHRIG

Value gain estimated at $55,199.00 in today's market using an average PSA 8 Price of $28,801.00 (VCP average).

This card has an old record / image of being purchased in a Legendary Auction as a PSA 8 (Cert # 08160100) on March 17, 2001 for $16,812.00 with auction description that included:
“The lower left corner has the slightest hint of wear. The card is centered 45/55 top to bottom and 60/40 left to right.”

This card has a record / image of being purchased in a Legendary Auction as a PSA 8 (Cert # 11178363) on March 5, 2010 for $17,775.00.

*** Between PSA Cert # 11178363 Legendary sale in 2010 and SGC Cert # 3945527 sale in 2019 the card was trimmed on left and bottom edges ***

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a SGC 9 (Cert # 3845527) on April 18, 2019 for $84,000.00.

Heritage link: https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1.../50012-51451.s

On Heritage Auctions site (HA.com) there is a “Make offer to Owner” buttom presently visible (as of October 27th 12PM ET) and below it states “This item's Owner is proactively entertaining Offers.”

Red circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red boxes identify trimmed left and bottom edges.

PSA 8 (Cert # 11178363) image from VCP* of March 2010 Legendary sale:

SGC 9 (Cert # 3845527) image from HA.com on April 18, 2019:



PSA 8 (Cert # 11178363) back image from Card Target of March 2010 Legendary sale:

SGC 9 (Cert # 3845527) back image from HA.com of April 18, 2019 sale:

[pip]

Originally Posted by ken161

First of all, great job tracking this down. This is one of the most egregious cases of fraud I've seen in these card doctoring threads, which is saying something.

Secondly, if I understand correctly, the card was originally in a PSA8 holder but was cracked out and resubmitted. It then received another grade of PSA8. Later the card was cracked out of its second (at least) PSA8 holder, trimmed, and sent to SGC where it was graded an SGC9. Unbelievable.

I wonder how many other big money vintage cards have sordid pasts like this 1934 Goudey Gehrig? It wouldn't surprise me if BODA has just scratched the surface.

That would be correct.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by ken161

First of all, great job tracking this down. This is one of the most egregious cases of fraud I've seen in these card doctoring threads, which is saying something.

Secondly, if I understand correctly, the card was originally in a PSA8 holder but was cracked out and resubmitted. It then received another grade of PSA8. Later the card was cracked out of its second (at least) PSA8 holder, trimmed, and sent to SGC where it was graded an SGC9. Unbelievable.

I wonder how many other big money vintage cards have sordid pasts like this 1934 Goudey Gehrig? It wouldn't surprise me if BODA has just scratched the surface.

It's important to get the word out about the ongoing fraud as much as possible.

Generating awareness is necessary so that people take the time to really analyze prospective purchases the best they can...and to try to not get cheated.