Trimmers: Triple sSs Sportscards, triplesssinc, Mike Skerbe, Mark Skerbe, Rich Davis

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

There's zero percent chance of that happening. PSA Management is as sleazy and fake as a 3 dollar bill. It will be silence as usual.

News media would be most interested in this! Might very well be able to force PSA’s hand here if the story were picked up.

[3124508 on COMC]

Evidently TheRealDeal doesn't think this is altered. It was clearly altered the same way every one of the standard size cards in this thread was altered. The corners have clearly been significantly sharpened. The process used to achieve that is what is and has been unknown. My guess is sophisticated N5 work.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

It is more like the submitters and grading companies are fooling collectors, not submitters fooling PSA... I have sources that tell me without a doubt that certain individuals have DIRECT access to graders.

same.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Evidently TheRealDeal doesn't think this is altered. It was clearly altered the same way every one of the standard size cards in this thread was altered. The corners have clearly been significantly sharpened. The process used to achieve that is what is and has been unknown. My guess is sophisticated N5 work.

Being that it was purchased by known card butcherers, the likelihood that it was altered is very high considering the two grade bump. Due to the blurred first image there is no proof - just a probability. If a better image can surface while still a 7 it would help.

[ken161]

Just went back and reread this entire thread. These guys have made some serious coin the last several years. I'd forgotten about the $20,000 gain on the 1962 Topps Maris. Then there's the $7,000 gain on the 1960 Mays and the $7,000 gain from the 1966 Jim Brown. And the list goes on and on.

Would love to see all cards consigned to the major auction houses by sSs Sportscards. Could just be the tip of the iceberg.

On a positive note, at least PSA pulled them from their list of authorized dealers.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

It is more like the submitters and grading companies are fooling collectors, not submitters fooling PSA... I have sources that tell me without a doubt that certain individuals have DIRECT access to graders.

I feel sorry for people who paid significant money for vintage cards.

[signed79]

The bottom right corner (visible from back) has been "fixed" that's a fact even with the blurry image.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I feel sorry for people who paid significant money for vintage cards.

I'm more worried about modern cards. Modern cards don't generally have as many print identifiers to compare potential before and after alterations, although some have serial numbers.

[pip]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Evidently TheRealDeal doesn't think this is altered. It was clearly altered the same way every one of the standard size cards in this thread was altered. The corners have clearly been significantly sharpened. The process used to achieve that is what is and has been unknown. My guess is sophisticated N5 work.

That's exactly right. TripleSSS has been altering cards for a long, long time and performs some of the "best" and most deceptive work of anyone. They make Daniel Desmond and Dick Towle look like amateurs. I doubt one could find very many high value cards sold by them that weren't altered in some way.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by pip

That's exactly right. TripleSSS has been altering cards for a long, long time and performs some of the "best" and most deceptive work of anyone. They make Daniel Desmond and Dick Towle look like amateurs. I doubt one could find very many high value cards sold by them that weren't altered in some way.

If it couldn't be improved upon, it was sold by them in the same slab it was purchased in.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

If it couldn't be improved upon, it was sold by them in the same slab it was purchased in.

This is interesting information. It seems as though they needed the card in-hand in order to make a cost-benefit analysis about whether or not to alter the card, just having an image or picture of a card seemingly isn't good enough for them to make a decision.

I wonder if cards rejected by them and resold were generally sold at a loss.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

This is interesting information. It seems as though they needed the card in-hand in order to make a cost-benefit analysis about whether or not to alter the card, just having an image or picture of a card seemingly isn't good enough for them to make a decision.

I wonder if cards rejected by them and resold were generally sold at a loss.

Moser and OCSI also did this - more so OCSI since Moser already had a set of eyes on it prior to being listed.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by corndog

Moser and OCSI also did this - more so OCSI since Moser already had a set of eyes on it prior to being listed.

So it seems highly beneficial for a potential alterer to run a consignment service, a grading service, or a “vault” to store cards in that it would provide the opportunity to analyze many potential alteration targets.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

So it seems highly beneficial for a potential alterer to run a consignment service, a grading service, or a “vault” to store cards in that it would provide the opportunity to analyze many potential alteration targets.

Yes, that is correct.

[unclemonkey]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

People need to take video/pics and post them of these guys at their booths.

p.s. Make sure to dress up as FBI agents too

BODA!!!

[unclemonkey]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I will not sit silently by and allow anyone to be ridiculed because of what they collect, how they collect, or how much money they put into their collection. Anyone that believes ridicule can be used to net positive results has serious social problems.

We're not going to make fun of or put down anyone that has become a victim of fraud. No one deserves to be cheated. If you feel that way, then that's a problem you have to work out within yourself.

We can get caught up in the emotions of things at times and say things we haven't properly thought out. I've done it before myself. I hope that that's what this was, just a slip up in the heat of the moment. If there's one thing everyone should take away from all this it's that this hobby is SMALL. You're going to make a name for yourself as long as you stay in it, there's no way around it. You have to decide whether that's going to be a positive or negative reputation.

The internet gives the veneer of anonymity but it isn't anonymous. Be a positive source of energy. We're all going to be stuck in this boat together.

Also, here's an updated floor map with Triple sSs highlighted.



Arthur

Those green squares are like seeping radioactive waste.

Not meant to be a knock on the honest dealers, but the entire chart is tainted when you consider the endless dealer to dealer transactions.

This will reverberate thru the industry for years to come and make Operation Bullpen look small.

Sad but true.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

If it couldn't be improved upon, it was sold by them in the same slab it was purchased in.

If only we knew which was which.

[ken161]

Just went to the sSs eBay homepage. I was shocked and saddened to see these guys still selling cards. Sales in just the past 30 days included a 1953 Topps Tommy Glavino in PSA8 for $1150 and a 1962 Topps Jim Brown in PSA8 for $3500. Over 140 positive feedbacks in just the last 30 days. Considering this thread is three months old, many more transactions have been conducted in the hallowed halls of sSs Sportcards since they were exposed as card doctors. I have no idea how many of these recent cards sold were altered, but isn't that really a moot point?

I don't know what disappoints me more, the fact that these guys have the gall to still sell cards or that people will still buy from them. About makes you lose all respect for the hobby....

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by ken161

Just went to the sSs eBay homepage. I was shocked and saddened to see these guys still selling cards. Sales in just the past 30 days included a 1953 Topps Tommy Glavino in PSA8 for $1150 and a 1962 Topps Jim Brown in PSA8 for $3500. Over 140 positive feedbacks in just the last 30 days. Considering this thread is three months old, many more transactions have been conducted in the hallowed halls of sSs Sportcards since they were exposed as card doctors. I have no idea how many of these recent cards sold were altered, but isn't that really a moot point?

I don't know what disappoints me more, the fact that these guys have the gall to still sell cards or that people will still buy from them. About makes you lose all respect for the hobby....

Hopefully we are getting close to the point in which the FBI shuts down all of these fraudulent sellers and dealers. The FBI did just that with Operation Bullpen, in terminating and publicly listing off all of the guilty Sellers and Authenticators who dealt in fake autographs. There were well over a dozen.

This scandal is much bigger, so hopefully the list of corrupt entities to be shut down will be far longer. The trouble is that the bad cards have spread everywhere by now. It's akin to the old saying that just one drop of piss in a punch bowl corrupts the entire bowl of punch.

The true enabler is the PSA Slab, which allows the tainted product to resurface anywhere at any time. Not even a fraction of the polluted cards will ever be rounded up or confiscated. But Law Enforcement can stop the bleeding by shutting down corrupt entities such as Card-Buyer, SSS, PWCC, and more importantly whoever they find to be the complicit among the TPGs.

[vintg]

Originally Posted by ken161

Just went to the sSs eBay homepage. I was shocked and saddened to see these guys still selling cards. Sales in just the past 30 days included a 1953 Topps Tommy Glavino in PSA8 for $1150 and a 1962 Topps Jim Brown in PSA8 for $3500. Over 140 positive feedbacks in just the last 30 days. Considering this thread is three months old, many more transactions have been conducted in the hallowed halls of sSs Sportcards since they were exposed as card doctors. I have no idea how many of these recent cards sold were altered, but isn't that really a moot point?

I don't know what disappoints me more, the fact that these guys have the gall to still sell cards or that people will still buy from them. About makes you lose all respect for the hobby....

or, you can send them a "friendly" email letting them know how
much "you appreciate what they're doing for the hobby".

I did.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

Hopefully we are getting close to the point in which the FBI shuts down all of these fraudulent sellers and dealers. The FBI did just that with Operation Bullpen, in terminating and publicly listing off all of the guilty Sellers and Authenticators who dealt in fake autographs. There were well over a dozen.

This scandal is much bigger, so hopefully the list of corrupt entities to be shut down will be far longer. The trouble is that the bad cards have spread everywhere by now. It's akin to the old saying that just one drop of piss in a punch bowl corrupts the entire bowl of punch.

The true enabler is the PSA Slab, which allows the tainted product to resurface anywhere at any time. Not even a fraction of the polluted cards will ever be rounded up or confiscated. But Law Enforcement can stop the bleeding by shutting down corrupt entities such as Card-Buyer, SSS, PWCC, and more importantly whoever they find to be the complicit among the TPGs.

But even after these fraudsters are gone, the altered cards and bad slabs remain. As do an ever-growing number of increasingly skilled card doctors emboldened by the many successes of previous card doctors who slide more altered cards past the TPGs.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

But even after these fraudsters are gone, the altered cards and bad slabs remain. As do an ever-growing number of increasingly skilled card doctors emboldened by the many successes of previous card doctors who slide more altered cards past the TPGs.

This.

In regards to bad autos and project bullpen. Was there a noticeable drop in bad autos on the market after the sting operation? Has the number of bad autos regained in the market after that drop?

I fear that there will be sudden surge of confidence in the cards after some public outings. When, in fact, not much would be changed in the actual real world.

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

This.

In regards to bad autos and project bullpen. Was there a noticeable drop in bad autos on the market after the sting operation? Has the number of bad autos regained in the market after that drop?

I fear that there will be sudden surge of confidence in the cards after some public outings. When, in fact, not much would be changed in the actual real world.

Yeah... you guys are absolutely spot-on. I agree that wiping out the fraudsters, doctors and shady dealers would only temporarily delay altered slabbed cards hitting the market. They will continue to do their thing, and submit to PSA + sell under different names, through other sources. That is exactly why PSA must be shut down along with them. PSA is the "vehicle" that makes all of this fraud and corruption possible. They are the ones making the criminals rich, with their inability/unwillingness to detect alterations.

I suppose I should've been more clear.... An FBI shutdown (comparable to Operation Bullpen) would only be effective if PSA is to be included along with the other enterprises. Otherwise, it will forever be more of the same (and we are screwed). Brent's tenets will forever become the norm within the hobby.

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

PSA is the "vehicle" that makes all of this fraud and corruption possible. They are the ones making the criminals rich, with their inability/unwillingness to detect alterations.

From everything I've read (card doctors having direct access to PSA graders, graders coaching select clients' subs, etc.) it seems to be straight up corruption! Then you have PSA encouraging collectors to spend as much as they can afford on high grade cards!

My strong impression is PSA uses favorable grading to give "kickbacks" to their high volume / "important" clients, who in turn take those profits (Ie. PSA 10) and use them for more submissions/grading... a revolving cycle benefitting both parties with profits from collectors.

[ken161]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

From everything I've read (card doctors having direct access to PSA graders, graders coaching select clients' subs, etc.) it seems to be straight up corruption! Then you have PSA encouraging collectors to spend as much as they can afford on high grade cards!

My strong impression is PSA uses favorable grading to give "kickbacks" to their high volume / "important" clients, who in turn take those profits (Ie. PSA 10) and use them for more submissions/grading... a revolving cycle benefitting both parties with profits from collectors.

The crux of the matter is whether these thousands and thousands of altered cards are "getting past the goalie" because of corruption or because PSA cannot detect alterations. I think most people would probably agree it's a combination of both. I certainly would not argue that there is corruption at many levels of PSA, but I think the bigger problem is that the card doctors have become so skilled that the cards they submit whiz right past the hapless PSA graders.

A good example would be the handiwork of sSs Sportscards. I'm far from an expert, but many of their doctored cards look fine to me in their holders. Too good to be true perhaps, but not obviously chopped. It's only when BODA has painstakingly tracked down the pre-doctored card and posted before and after images, that the nefarious deeds of sSs Sportcards and their ilk become obvious.

I could be wrong, and as you say, corruption/greased palms/kickbacks could be the engine driving this mess. Regardless, I am done with grading. Even a brand new company with good intentions would eventually be compromised. Too much easy money to be had. I'm more than happy collecting raw 1948-1975 sets in EX to NM condition and modern in NMMT. If that means I've got a few doctored cards in my 3-ring binders, so be it. I'll probably have fewer than if I had a mountain of slabs.

Never get cheated.