Evan Mathis Trimming Anything and Everything to Sell via Probstein, PWCC, & COMC

[WhiteSoxJosh]

Originally Posted by pspa123

The Mastro affair took longer than that, and as you've pointed out, that was small in scope compared to this. So it would not surprise me at all if this took quite some time. Particularly where new alleged card doctors and potential evidence keep coming to light.

Federal investigations usually take up to and over one year, at least. Especially if there are wire taps, confidential informants, and voluminous records to go through. Feds don't play. Plus, they like to nab a big fish to make an example.
Some yutz named Johnny Adams? not so much.
A former NFLer who spends 6 figures on a card? yup.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

They’re pulling everything the federal government can use as evidence and letting everything else run. Therefore, if the trimmers are careful, they can still use PWCC.

That's what it seems PWCC is trying to do but your own investigation, shows they're not pulling everything.
Those altered Ruth, Cobb... cards are still available for purchase in the vault.

[Ryanm84]

Do not want to derail this thread but curious if there is a master list of masked IDs along with known buyer account names to keep an eye out for? I don’t sell much but as someone who might like to buy again in the future (with a lot more investigation) I would think it would be helpful to be able to see if known docs are bidding on my items or items I’m watching. If easier via PM that would be great too. Thanks in advance.

[JMANIA]

Another endorser of PSA caught. PSA uses his celebrity name to boost its prowess and he uses PSA to make money. Win, win for both. $$$$$$.

People long have felt there was a connection between Mathis and Jason Koonce who likely cuts sheets for him. The 101 BGS 9.5 he had he claimed was pulled from a bag that he was holding onto (where is photo of bag?) is laughable. Anyone who understands the card believes it was sheet cut.

The 1953 Mantle PSA 10 in PWCC's vault sure looks like a PSA 9 bump based on centering. Celebrity bump? And how much of a gain was that and not given to original owner?

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

Another endorser of PSA caught. PSA uses his celebrity name to boost its prowess and he uses PSA to make money. Win, win for both. $$$$$$.

People long have felt there was a connection between Mathis and Jason Koonce who likely cuts sheets for him. The 101 BGS 9.5 he had he claimed was pulled from a bag (where is photo?) that he was holding onto is laughable. Anyone who understand the card believes it was sheet cut.

The 1953 Mantle PSA 10 in PWCC's vault sure looks like a PSA 9 bump based on centering. Celebrity bump? And how much of a gain was that and not given to original owner?

Pretty sure that was a bump received at the National.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

They’re pulling everything the federal government can use as evidence and letting everything else run. Therefore, if the trimmers are careful, they can still use PWCC.

These guys are idiots. I hope their plan is to never attend a live show again. This country is chock full of wackos and many won't hesitate to handle their business themselves if you rip them off for a few hundred dollars. I can't even joke around and say they have balls, it's just pure stupidity to continue to scam people at this point. Talk about Russian roulette.

Arthur

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by auburn35

That's what it seems PWCC is trying to do but your own investigation, shows they're not pulling everything.
Those altered Ruth, Cobb... cards are still available for purchase in the vault.

Yep. Same story there. FBI only investigating trimmed and recolored cards, so those are okay.

[unclemonkey]

Doubt the FBI is looking into the scam.

Even if they were, they would not tell you.

[JMANIA]

I know soon after the trimming scandal was publicly revealed cardbuff stopped sending out daily emails (which was essentially endorsing many trimmed cards on ebay).

Mathis used to have a testimonial on PSA's web site endoring it, which I no longer see:

https://www.psacard.com/About/Testimonials/

The connections revealed on here by the original poster cannot be denied. Even from years ago when Chad Thyzell was selling the trimmed and sheet cut cards of Jason Koonce under superiorsports on ebay or some similar name.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by unclemonkey

Doubt the FBI is looking into the scam.

Even if they were, they would not tell you.

You’re absolutely right. Trimmers should keep on trimming in the open!

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by unclemonkey

Doubt the FBI is looking into the scam.

Even if they were, they would not tell you.

False.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by unclemonkey

Doubt the FBI is looking into the scam.

Even if they were, they would not tell you.

You seem very informed.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by unclemonkey

Doubt the FBI is looking into the scam.

Even if they were, they would not tell you.

I don't think they would comment on any investigation if you dialed up 1-800-FBI-WHAT but through the process of them conducting their investigation they have to speak with people and gather evidence. So you can see where confirmation of an FBI investigation can exist.

Arthur

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Yep. Same story there. FBI only investigating trimmed and recolored cards, so those are okay.

Interesting. Curious why the FBI would limit their scope to only trimmed and recolored.

Also, didn't at least one of those "vault cards" have a rounded corner? PWCC is walking a thin line on that one, if trimming is the focus of the investigation.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Interesting. Curious why the FBI would limit their scope to only trimmed and recolored.

Also, didn't at least one of those "vault cards" have a rounded corner? PWCC is walking a thin line on that one, if trimming is the focus of the investigation.

Because they don't think there is a hobby consensus against cleaning.

[TomRacer]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

Another endorser of PSA caught. PSA uses his celebrity name to boost its prowess and he uses PSA to make money. Win, win for both. $$$$$$.

People long have felt there was a connection between Mathis and Jason Koonce who likely cuts sheets for him. The 101 BGS 9.5 he had he claimed was pulled from a bag that he was holding onto (where is photo of bag?) is laughable. Anyone who understands the card believes it was sheet cut.

The 1953 Mantle PSA 10 in PWCC's vault sure looks like a PSA 9 bump based on centering. Celebrity bump? And how much of a gain was that and not given to original owner?

Evan Mathis and Jason Koonce are good friends according to PokerNews. They travelled to the Bahamas to play some poker tournaments in January 2019 and they both got lucky:

Koonce placed 5th in a large $25,000 tourney and won $1,304,000

Mathis placed 35th in the $25,000 tourney for $86,400 and then placed 6th in a $50,000 tourney for $192,500

PokerNews wrote an article on each:

Jason Koonce - not Jason Koon - Running Deep in the $25k PSPC

Koonce is no Koon, but he’s by no means out of his league playing in the $25,000 buy-in PokerStars Players Championship. A frequent cash game player 8-10 years ago, Koonce still hops in the occasional $25/$50 or $50/$100 game in his home area in Michigan or when traveling to L.A. or Vegas for work.

“I used to play a lot, but work and family start to take priority.”

These days, Koonce stays busy running his sports memorabilia and talent company One Team International Agency (OTIA) and spending time with his wife and three young children.

Good friends with Jeff Gross, Bill Perkins, and former NFL player Evan Mathis, Koonce had plenty of friends already planning to play the PSPC.

“After seeing the structure of [the PSPC], some friends and I decided we had to come down and play it. I’m from Michigan; It’s ten degrees in Michigan right now so what better spot than the Atlantis to come play a $25K?”

Retired NFL Lineman Evan Mathis Takes on Poker Pros at the PCA

Like his good friend Jason Koonce, an amateur who took fifth in the PSPC for $1,304,000, Mathis is often underestimated at the poker tables. The six foot, five-inch tall former O-Lineman stands out at the table, and opponents eventually do a little research to find out Mathis was a long-time NFL pro. He does his best to play up the novice poker player image that often comes along with the pro athlete status.

“Some people will see who’s at the table and they’ll Google my name and see that I’m a football player,” Mathis told us. “Sometimes I try to use that to my advantage to kind of play dumb and act like a big dumb football ogre. Sometimes I’ll try to create an image where initially, they think I don’t know what I’m doing.”

Bolding by me. I imagine Evan Mathis' involvement with scamming sports card collectors may pop in a Google search too.

[JMANIA]

What is the timeline here? Mathis is a football player and buys high end key sports cards (i.e. like Dmitri Young). Enters card market legitimately buying high end stuff. He befriends people like Koonce who do this for a living and know the tricks (trimming, sheet cutting). Some of those people sell to him but befriend him and they work together over time. Market is up, he sells a lot of key stuff. Then retires from NFL and becomes a card doctor himself and uses other people to assist when needed (sheet cutting).

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Because they don't think there is a hobby consensus against cleaning.

What about gluing a card back together, like the Cobb that 3124508 on COMC noted is still for sale?

I'm just saying that there are several other "alterations" that don't fit in the trimmed or recolored categories, with equally strong hobby consensus.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by auburn35

What about gluing a card back together, like the Cobb that 3124508 on COMC noted is still for sale?

I'm just saying that there are several other "alterations" that don't fit in the trimmed or recolored categories, with equally strong hobby consensus.

It would be impossible on the resources available, I think, to go after every alteration and fraudster in this hobby. People should have realistic expectations of law enforcement.

[KhalDrogo]

Trimming and coloring are easy to prove. They don’t need to catch every example. Just enough.

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

The 101 BGS 9.5 he had he claimed was pulled from a bag that he was holding onto (where is photo of bag?) is laughable. Anyone who understands the card believes it was sheet cut.

I believe anything 9 or higher is sheet cut. Probably more than 50% of the 8.5s. On the plus side, so many of the Star Co cards are sheet cut that it doesn't matter I guess.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Because they don't think there is a hobby consensus against cleaning.

Of course they know there is a hobby consensus about cleaning especially when it is clear chemicals were used. PSA, SGC and Beckett all have rejection codes for evidence of cleaning. They are taking the more obvious and egregious types of alterations that likely allow for them to make a tighter case and thereby limiting the scope of the investigation too.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Of course they know there is a hobby consensus about cleaning especially when it is clear chemicals were used. PSA, SGC and Beckett all have rejection codes for evidence of cleaning. They are taking the more obvious and egregious types of alterations that likely allow for them to make a tighter case and thereby limiting the scope of the investigation too.

You would think, but not according to what I am hearing. But either way, trimming and recoloring is the easiest case.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by pspa123

It would be impossible on the resources available, I think, to go after every alteration and fraudster in this hobby. People should have realistic expectations of law enforcement.

I understand you're not going to catch everything and everyone but just don't understand the narrow focus, especially if the same people being investigated for the trimming and recoloring, are responsible for the other alterations.

We know this one is bad....oh well, nothing we can do about that.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by fenwaykid

Was there something specific he did to get banned? Or is blowout now banning all trimmers?

The answer to the bold is no.