Evan Mathis Trimming Anything and Everything to Sell via Probstein, PWCC, & COMC - Page 31

corndog · 12-27-2019, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

I know Im jumping in very late but that paper trimmer cant not be the one he is using. No way that thing can cut the smooth.

My kids have one for making art(not like his but very small) and there is not way thats what is being used. It could not cut cardboard.

It's not what they are using to trim cards with.

Peties Army · 12-27-2019, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

It's not what they are using to trim cards with.

Oh ok, i get it now

Rooftop · 12-27-2019, 11:33 AM

Should BO continue their support of PSA by letting people do group submissions on their site?

Peties Army · 12-27-2019, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooftop

Should BO continue their support of PSA by letting people do group submissions on their site?

Its not BO's place to get involved.

Wiseguy917 · 12-27-2019, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooftop

Should BO continue their support of PSA by letting people do group submissions on their site?

If there are people ignorant enough to keep using PSA’s services, then there will be people smart enough to take their money.

NYRE2PECT · 12-27-2019, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooftop

Should BO continue their support of PSA by letting people do group submissions on their site?

That's where i get confused/discouraged is that on Page 1 of BO, halfway down, there is someone who has posted "First PSA Mailday." What does that require of that person?

1) Ignorance
2) Dismissal
3) Avoidance
4) Denial
5) Chasing the $$$ so forgeddaboutit
6) All of the above

And there are so.many.posts with "lookie at what I got from PSA."

The tide has been so slow to change.....

MoreToppsPlease · 12-27-2019, 11:44 AM

Whether or not people use PSA’s service or buy their slabs on the secondary market is moot.

People just need to know that they shouldn’t be paying much, if any, of a premium for their slabs on the open market. Actually they should be paying less! Treat all slabs the same, including GAI, GEM, etc.

But rest assured, there will always be people who will try to get you to pay a lot more for them all the time...don’t. Assume that if prices are rising on the secondary market that the reason it’s rising is due to market manipulation and fraud.

Peties Army · 12-27-2019, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRE2PECT

That's where i get confused/discouraged is that on Page 1 of BO, halfway down, there is someone who has posted "First PSA Mailday." What does that require of that person?

1) Ignorance
2) Dismissal
3) Avoidance
4) Denial
5) Chasing the $$$ so forgeddaboutit
6) All of the above

And there are so.many.posts with "lookie at what I got from PSA."

The tide has been so slow to change.....

There are 100s of thousands of cards graded by PSA in a year, how many have been found to be trimmed/altered on this site? a few hundered? Its such a small % and PSA still offers the most return for investment.

Wiseguy917 · 12-27-2019, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Whether or not people use PSA’s service or buy their slabs on the secondary market is moot.

People just need to know that they shouldn’t be paying much, if any, of a premium for their slabs on the open market. Actually they should be paying less! Treat all slabs the same, including GAI, GEM, etc.

But rest assured, there will always be people who will try to get you to pay a lot more for them all the time...don’t. Assume that if prices are rising on the secondary market that the reason it’s rising is due to market manipulation and fraud.

A+ post. Five stars!!

NYRE2PECT · 12-27-2019, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

There are 100s of thousands of cards graded by PSA in a year, how many have been found to be trimmed/altered on this site? a few hundered? Its such a small % and PSA still offers the most return for investment.

For the greater collecting universe I totally get it - we are in the overwhelming minority, but in the example that I used...these are people that obviously read the BO forums...and don't give a rip?

KhalDrogo · 12-27-2019, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

But rest assured, there will always be people who will try to get you to pay a lot more for them all the time...don’t. Assume that if prices are rising on the secondary market that the reason it’s rising is due to market manipulation and fraud.

Good luck with that!

Peties Army · 12-27-2019, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRE2PECT

For the greater collecting universe I totally get it - we are in the overwhelming minority, but in the example that I used...these are people that obviously read the BO forums...and don't give a rip?

Oh, thats a very good point.

I know I just sent some in so I guess thats my view.

Honestly I dont even think about it.

3124508 on COMC · 12-27-2019, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

There are 100s of thousands of cards graded by PSA in a year, how many have been found to be trimmed/altered on this site? a few hundered? Its such a small % and PSA still offers the most return for investment.

I assure you the constraining factor is the man hours put into finding altered cards, not the number of altered cards.

HarryLime · 12-27-2019, 12:04 PM

I completely understand the anger and frustration directed at PSA. It's obvious they haven't been using the most basic tools available to them to grade very high-dollar cards that would require them the most and they haven't been doing this for years.

The concept that PSA is public enemy #1 over the individuals that took a proactive effort to defraud people simply blows my mind. It's so foreign to me that it's not even something I would consider worth debating. I guess I just have to say "agree to disagree" and move on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.

Arthur

NYRE2PECT · 12-27-2019, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peties Army

Oh, thats a very good point.

I know I just sent some in so I guess thats my view.

Honestly I dont even think about it.

...if we don't change, why should they?

Bruins1993 · 12-27-2019, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbears86

This is what I struggle with: Is PSA mearly inept? Are they rushing graders so much that they miss these? Or are they in on it?

I see how obvious these trimming examples are, and I think there is no way they can be missing these. Some of these cards being altered are so blatant, it looks impossible to miss them.

Plus, the logic of it all. These are cards that are 50++ years old coming up PSA 8's and 9's.---the possibility of that alone should have alarms ringing in PSA headquarters. People didn't store their cards correctly back then. The population of high grade cards from that era should be relatively small.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Time will tell. They are definitely inept. I mean, Joe himself admitted previously that they don't measure every card. That should be a given when examining a high-grade vintage card.

I still have a hard time believing the executives at CLCT were directing graders to handout favorable grades. That's corporate malfeasance that would lead to the destruction of the company if true.

High profile submitters having DIRECT access to graders has to go to the top at PSA.

auburn35 · 12-27-2019, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

It's not what they are using to trim cards with.

How about this trimming device. 'Tis the season.

NYRE2PECT · 12-27-2019, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I completely understand the anger and frustration directed at PSA. It's obvious they haven't been using the most basic tools available to them to grade very high-dollar cards that would require them the most and they haven't been doing this for years.

The concept that PSA is public enemy #1 over the individuals that took a proactive effort to defraud people simply blows my mind. It's so foreign to me that it's not even something I would consider worth debating. I guess I just have to say "agree to disagree" and move on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.

Arthur

It's equal Arthur...in my humble view.

They don't chop if there isn't a market for it.

There's nothing to market, if there isn't a place to chop.

Wiseguy917 · 12-27-2019, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I completely understand the anger and frustration directed at PSA. It's obvious they haven't been using the most basic tools available to them to grade very high-dollar cards that would require them the most and they haven't been doing this for years.

The concept that PSA is public enemy #1 over the individuals that took a proactive effort to defraud people simply blows my mind. It's so foreign to me that it's not even something I would consider worth debating. I guess I just have to say "agree to disagree" and move on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.

Arthur

PSA literally exists to make sure defrauders don’t exist. If PSA wasn’t a corrupt incompetent entity, defrauders wouldn’t have a place in this world. PSA holds the ag, nobody else.

HarryLime · 12-27-2019, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYRE2PECT

It's equal Arthur...in my humble view.

They don't chop if there isn't a market for it.

There's nothing to market, if there isn't a place to chop.

Just curious and honest question: is that how you view other types of crime? The market is to blame equally?

Arthur

KhalDrogo · 12-27-2019, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

High profile submitters having DIRECT access to graders has to go to the top at PSA.

Should be easy for the FBI to prove then. A very juicy case for them.

3124508 on COMC · 12-27-2019, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I completely understand the anger and frustration directed at PSA. It's obvious they haven't been using the most basic tools available to them to grade very high-dollar cards that would require them the most and they haven't been doing this for years.

The concept that PSA is public enemy #1 over the individuals that took a proactive effort to defraud people simply blows my mind. It's so foreign to me that it's not even something I would consider worth debating. I guess I just have to say "agree to disagree" and move on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.

Arthur

PSA would hold no blame if they didn’t claim to not grade altered cards. They need to change their grading standards and then start issuing refunds.

Rooftop · 12-27-2019, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I completely understand the anger and frustration directed at PSA. It's obvious they haven't been using the most basic tools available to them to grade very high-dollar cards that would require them the most and they haven't been doing this for years.

The concept that PSA is public enemy #1 over the individuals that took a proactive effort to defraud people simply blows my mind. It's so foreign to me that it's not even something I would consider worth debating. I guess I just have to say "agree to disagree" and move on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.

Arthur

Direct from PSA:

PSA authenticates both sports and non-sports trading cards across all eras.

A series of PSA graders review your cards for authenticity. If genuine, PSA looks for evidence of doctoring, such as re-coloring or trimming.

If your cards pass these two steps, PSA grades the condition of each card on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being best.

After grading, PSA holders each card in its own tamper-evident case. A label within the case displays the card's pertinent information and unique certification number.

PSA is supposed to protect the consumer from purchasing doctored cards. At least that's what they are promoting. Is there any other reason to buy a PSA graded card?

Bruins1993 · 12-27-2019, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I completely understand the anger and frustration directed at PSA. It's obvious they haven't been using the most basic tools available to them to grade very high-dollar cards that would require them the most and they haven't been doing this for years.

The concept that PSA is public enemy #1 over the individuals that took a proactive effort to defraud people simply blows my mind. It's so foreign to me that it's not even something I would consider worth debating. I guess I just have to say "agree to disagree" and move on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.

Arthur

So in best case PSA is slabbing millions of dollars of fraud by accident? Never get cheated, right?

PSA has been giving high profile card doctors DIRECT access to PSA graders... ethical?

LVDan · 12-27-2019, 12:20 PM

Much like the crooked 2 party political system we continue to support as a nation, there is far too much $$ on the line for any real change in regards to graded cards getting a big premium. Until enough people get pissed off about it- maybe.
BODA might as well be some great independent thinking moderate that takes the best ideas from both parties and incorporates them into a sensible platform that considers all Americans.. as soon as that person begins to ascend the political ranks they are promptly beat down by those who spent their career "paying their dues" to get rich.
Not trying to go political here but history tells us that long established systems that make a lot of people rich don't exactly go down quietly.

12-27-2019, 11:44 AM	#757
MoreToppsPlease Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 8,676	Whether or not people use PSA’s service or buy their slabs on the secondary market is moot. People just need to know that they shouldn’t be paying much, if any, of a premium for their slabs on the open market. Actually they should be paying less! Treat all slabs the same, including GAI, GEM, etc. But rest assured, there will always be people who will try to get you to pay a lot more for them all the time...don’t. Assume that if prices are rising on the secondary market that the reason it’s rising is due to market manipulation and fraud. __________________ IRS Tax Tip 2022-57 A hobby is any activity that a person pursues because they enjoy it and with no intention of making a profit. People operate a business with the intention of making a profit.

12-27-2019, 11:33 AM	#753
Rooftop Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 3,561	Should BO continue their support of PSA by letting people do group submissions on their site?

12-27-2019, 12:04 PM	#764
HarryLime Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Spaceball 1 Posts: 4,794	I completely understand the anger and frustration directed at PSA. It's obvious they haven't been using the most basic tools available to them to grade very high-dollar cards that would require them the most and they haven't been doing this for years. The concept that PSA is public enemy #1 over the individuals that took a proactive effort to defraud people simply blows my mind. It's so foreign to me that it's not even something I would consider worth debating. I guess I just have to say "agree to disagree" and move on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. Arthur

12-27-2019, 12:20 PM	#775
LVDan Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 17,670	Much like the crooked 2 party political system we continue to support as a nation, there is far too much $$ on the line for any real change in regards to graded cards getting a big premium. Until enough people get pissed off about it- maybe. BODA might as well be some great independent thinking moderate that takes the best ideas from both parties and incorporates them into a sensible platform that considers all Americans.. as soon as that person begins to ascend the political ranks they are promptly beat down by those who spent their career "paying their dues" to get rich. Not trying to go political here but history tells us that long established systems that make a lot of people rich don't exactly go down quietly.