Realistically, why is Luka more valuable than Trae?

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by TheWharf

Steph had KD for 2 of the 3, but not the first. And he made 2 w/o KD. That was a team almost exclusively drafted by GS with a few, key veteran additions (like we all agree that the Hawks still lack). Why can't the Hawks become that 1st GS championship team? Steph was a terrible defender for a long time as well.

My point is that it's impossible to predict what will happen around Luka and Trae. DAL still has to get better than both LA's, a very young and talented DEN team that should be good for a long time, as well as UTA and HOU (these 2 don't scare me as much). The path to a championship is not easy by any means and that's if all of the teams already ahead of them don't make a single move in the years to come. That's not even counting all of the teams in the East that would beat them in a Finals matchup.

ATL, on the other hand, has drafted some promising young talent. They also have a top draft pick this year and tons of cap space in the next 2 off-seasons. They already added rim protection that hasn't even seen the floor yet (Capela). Who's to say they can't make a move or 2 that propels them into the conversation? I think it's too early to say they'll never win a championship, just like people probably said about GS early in Steph's career.

Trae won't lead THIS team to a championship. Heck, MJ wouldn't lead this team to a championship. But Luka's not leading the current Mavs team to one either. A lot of things have to happen for both teams to be contenders. But we can't sit here and say Luka will for sure win championships while his team is only the 7th best team in the West.

Because GS drafted all those players, the guys the Hawks drafted are not even close to as good. I mean, we're not playing pretend here.

Steph was never a "terrible" defender. He was never good but he was never terrible. Trae is literally bottom of the league. You don't go from league worst to passable. It doesn't happen.

John Collins is also a bad defender. Capela isn't going to save them. The Hawks literally cannot stop anyone and won't be able to stop anyone with the Trae/Collins combo.

Like I said, you are entitled to your opinion. That doesn't change the fact that history says that it's unlikely for Trae to win a title. Unless your fantasy land scenario of the Hawks somehow getting 3 elite/all-time great defenders/shooters comes true

[jcardstore]

It's not fair to compare the Hawks to the Warriors.

KD - All time great player
Klay - All time great shooter
Steph - All time great player and greatest shooter of all time
Draymond - Elite defender

The Hawks don't even have 1/4 of that

[k13]

Originally Posted by bberns

He's 19. Age curves are the name of the game. The longer that people don't realize this, the more successful I can be at prospecting.

Also, his team is average to slightly above average.

That's 1 year. Makes no difference. Not like Luka is 25.

You can't "prospect" Zion...

[dasiegel]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Because GS drafted all those players, the guys the Hawks drafted are not even close to as good. I mean, we're not playing pretend here.

Steph was never a "terrible" defender. He was never good but he was never terrible. Trae is literally bottom of the league. You don't go from league worst to passable. It doesn't happen.

John Collins is also a bad defender. Capela isn't going to save them. The Hawks literally cannot stop anyone and won't be able to stop anyone with the Trae/Collins combo.

Like I said, you are entitled to your opinion. That doesn't change the fact that history says that it's unlikely for Trae to win a title. Unless your fantasy land scenario of the Hawks somehow getting 3 elite/all-time great defenders/shooters comes true

The trajectory for them to get out of the East is pretty solid. By the time Trae is in year 4-5, Reddish will come around, Hunter will come around, Collins is starting to find his groove, they have Huerter also. They have plenty of future picks and they will have Capela who is only 25. As long as they keep the core together they will just get defensive stoppers in free agency, surround the kid Trae with shooters and at some point they will be a real threat to come out of the East. They are so young with so much raw talent. A lot of IFs, but that is every young team.

[k13]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I coulda swore this was Zion's sophomore year. I guess he's just playing like one already.


Why is Lebron worth more than Sydney Crosby?


Double shots fired.

Because He won in Cleveland.

Before that He was actually worth less.
You could get a Lebron Spa /500 rc for less than Crosby Spa /999 rc.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by dasiegel

The trajectory for them to get out of the East is pretty solid. By the time Trae is in year 4-5, Reddish will come around, Hunter will come around, Collins is starting to find his groove, they have Huerter also. They have plenty of future picks and they will have Capela who is only 25. As long as they keep the core together they will just get defensive stoppers in free agency, surround the kid Trae with shooters and at some point they will be a real threat to come out of the East. They are so young with so much raw talent. A lot of IFs, but that is every young team.

It's not just a lot of IFs.

It's you basically you expecting that the guys they've drafted will ALL come around to be championship caliber players, which hasn't happened except for 1 season in the modern era.

As jcardstore pointed out, the trajectory for the Hawks isn't the Warriors just because they've drafted these guys.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by dasiegel

The trajectory for them to get out of the East is pretty solid. By the time Trae is in year 4-5, Reddish will come around, Hunter will come around, Collins is starting to find his groove, they have Huerter also. They have plenty of future picks and they will have Capela who is only 25. As long as they keep the core together they will just get defensive stoppers in free agency, surround the kid Trae with shooters and at some point they will be a real threat to come out of the East. They are so young with so much raw talent. A lot of IFs, but that is every young team.

The chances of the Hawks making it to the finals in the next 5 years is about the same as Kevin Knox becoming a halfway decent NBA player lol.

In all seriousness though, they need to surround Trae with 4 other 1st team all defensive studs who can also shoot the lights out and that's not happening.

Hunter is going to be a decent role player, I never understood the Reddish hype never thought he had star potential and he certainly hasn't shown it so far. Huerter will be a fine role player too but no star potential there.

You've got a bonafide star in Trae and a bunch of quality role players / quality starters.

[IceTrae11]

Man people love to HATE Trae lol. I'll keep letting him do his thing, the chip on his shoulder grows and makes him better. He has no business being as good as he is and doesn't shrink in the spotlight like Luka.

[bberns]

Originally Posted by k13

That's 1 year. Makes no difference. Not like Luka is 25.

You can't "prospect" Zion...

One year does make a difference. The difference it made for Luka in particular was quite large.

[bberns]

Originally Posted by dasiegel

The trajectory for them to get out of the East is pretty solid. By the time Trae is in year 4-5, Reddish will come around, Hunter will come around, Collins is starting to find his groove, they have Huerter also. They have plenty of future picks and they will have Capela who is only 25. As long as they keep the core together they will just get defensive stoppers in free agency, surround the kid Trae with shooters and at some point they will be a real threat to come out of the East. They are so young with so much raw talent. A lot of IFs, but that is every young team.

Adding "defensive stoppers" doesn't work. It's not like football. You need people that can play offense and defense (like Draymond, Klay, Iggy, etc.). The problem with the Hawks is that they have guys who can only play one side of the ball (and some that can play neither).

[TheWharf]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Way closer to what? Being relevant? I would like to hear where you think they'll finish the regular season next year. You think they'll finish ahead of MIL, TOR, MIA, PHI, BOS, or BRK?

The Mavs are two games back of 4th in the West while Luka has missed most of or all of 13 games, Porzingis 14 games, THJ 4 games, and Powell 17 games.

Closer to being good. I never said this team was going to be a contender next year. But people are out here saying Trae can never win a title when he's only halfway through his 2nd year. How can we make that prediction with such little information? Especially when the information people are using has no actual substance behind it.

11-15 is significantly better than 17-41. And, like I also said, that has been against an incredibly difficult schedule (17 of those 26 games against playoff teams). To use your own words, they are EXCEEDING EXPECTATIONS in those 26 games in which they actually had Trae and Collins on the floor. Yet everyone looks at the 17-41 and says the Hawks are the 3rd worst team in the NBA without putting any context behind it.

And then we give Luka all of the credit for his team being good when they simply have a better roster. Luka and Brunson are the only 2nd year guys on the roster that get any run. ZERO rookies in their rotation. Stacked full of veterans. But Atlanta's top 5 players in MPG are 2 rookies, 2 2nd year guys, and a third year 23 year old. And somehow it's Trae's fault that they aren't better?

Makes no sense.

[chris buk]

Originally Posted by lepcity

Trae is extremely overrated due to ESPN. Yes a good player with good stats, but he isn't efficient and doesn't make the team better around him. Prime example of a stat padder who doesn't win, similar to Westbrook but with a 3 point shot instead of the athletic ability

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

I was at the Mavs Hawks game on Saturday...it really sucked that Luka was 30ft away in a suit the whole game...that being said, how can you say Trae doesn't make his team better? The hawks have zero interior defense, and Bruno Fernando is responsible for 20 pts a game on defense and he plays like 10 minutes. Thats why they lose.

They were trailing the whole game until Reddish had a breakaway dunk, and then Trae, who had been invisible all game scoring wise (think he had 10 at start of the 4th) hits 3 threes, 2 driving layups and finds John Collins on 2 awesome assists to take the lead in a span of about 3-4 minutes. The whole arena was waiting for Trae to get hot and when it happened it was awesome to see live. I know Trae isn't Luka but to say he doesn't make his team better is fugazi.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by chris buk

The whole arena was waiting for Trae to get hot and when it happened it was awesome to see live.

The loudest the arena ever got was when Hardaway missed the front end of some free throws, and there was free chicken if he missed the next. I thought that was funny.

[Willikn]

A lot of posts here going to absolutes. Trae isn't Luka, but he isn't garbage.

Trae IS hobby good. Compare his prices to someone like Donovan Mitchell, KAT, or Kemba Walker.

The biggest difference between the two IMO, right now, is that Luka has been Nationally televised a ton. Trae, never. For a lot of basketball fans the last memory they have of Trae is playing one on five in the Big 12 with a terrible Oklahoma cast.

I'm buying stock in a guy, I'm buying Luka first. After that though I see Trae as a solid "buy". A lot of people keeping their hands off because they look at box scores and assume his stats are a product of playing on a bad team. Missing out not seeing this guy play. He is serious eye candy if you love this game.

Wanna compare him and ask questions about pricing, compare with Morant.

[bberns]

Originally Posted by Willikn

A lot of posts here going to absolutes. Trae isn't Luka, but he isn't garbage.

Trae IS hobby good. Compare his prices to someone like Donovan Mitchell, KAT, or Kemba Walker.

The biggest difference between Trae and those guys is that he is still relatively hobby fresh. If Trae has the same stat line and the Hawks are out of the playoff picture next year or the year after, you will see his prices fall like a rock.

Donovan has his team at a fourth/fifth seed and people still don't care.

[thejazzcollector]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The Vegas O/U was 40.5 wins.

You sure that wasn’t for the whole year? Many people had Dallas as out of the playoffs in their projections to begin the year

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by brycelarson11

You sure that wasn’t for the whole year? Many people had Dallas as out of the playoffs in their projections to begin the year

That’s what I’m saying. While this other guy is arguing the Mavs and Hawks have both equally met or exceeded expectations because the Hawks are 7-0 on a Wednesday when it’s raining and John Collins wears his jersey backward while Trae shoots all his shots left handed.

[Spacemanspif]

Both players are great. They were both All Star starters in their 2nd years, which is incredible

However, it's not even a debate as to who is better or who will produce more win shares in their career. Pricing on both is absurd, but it makes more sense for Luka because his ceiling is much higher. You can see him winning an MVP or two in his career, and you can see him possibly winning a championship (yes there are factors etc).

Trae's ceiling is probably not much more than what he's doing now. As a Warriors fan, Steph is an all-time great shooter who is amazing off the ball, a competent defender, and during his MVP years an elite finisher so please stop comparing Trae to him. With that said, even Steph doesn't have a Finals MVP and the rings he has are due to KD joining, and injuries to Kyrie / Love.

Again, I think Trae is good but you're never going to win in the Playoffs with a team built around someone that small and who gets killed on defense. You can talk about his numbers all you want, but 1) at 30ppg there's not a lot of runway for improvement, and 2) who cares about stats on bad teams? Are we supposed to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on Bradley Beal and Zach Lavine cards too? $500 for a silver prizm PSA 10 is a LOT of money already considering there are 1500 of them, not sure why people are claiming there's so much more room for his cards to grow. If anything it's flattened out because it's appropriate

[zack2nice]

Simply said people like winners. Nobody wants to spend money on the best loser


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[bberns]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

Both players are great. They were both All Star starters in their 2nd years, which is incredible

However, it's not even a debate as to who is better or who will produce more win shares in their career. Pricing on both is absurd, but it makes more sense for Luka because his ceiling is much higher. You can see him winning an MVP or two in his career, and you can see him possibly winning a championship (yes there are factors etc).

Trae's ceiling is probably not much more than what he's doing now. As a Warriors fan, Steph is an all-time great shooter who is amazing off the ball, a competent defender, and during his MVP years an elite finisher so please stop comparing Trae to him. With that said, even Steph doesn't have a Finals MVP and the rings he has are due to KD joining, and injuries to Kyrie / Love.

Again, I think Trae is good but you're never going to win in the Playoffs with a team built around someone that small and who gets killed on defense. You can talk about his numbers all you want, but 1) at 30ppg there's not a lot of runway for improvement, and 2) who cares about stats on bad teams? Are we supposed to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on Bradley Beal and Zach Lavine cards too? $500 for a silver prizm PSA 10 is a LOT of money already considering there are 1500 of them, not sure why people are claiming there's so much more room for his cards to grow. If anything it's flattened out because it's appropriate

/thread

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Because GS drafted all those players, the guys the Hawks drafted are not even close to as good. I mean, we're not playing pretend here.

Steph was never a "terrible" defender. He was never good but he was never terrible. Trae is literally bottom of the league. You don't go from league worst to passable. It doesn't happen.

John Collins is also a bad defender. Capela isn't going to save them. The Hawks literally cannot stop anyone and won't be able to stop anyone with the Trae/Collins combo.

Like I said, you are entitled to your opinion. That doesn't change the fact that history says that it's unlikely for Trae to win a title. Unless your fantasy land scenario of the Hawks somehow getting 3 elite/all-time great defenders/shooters comes true

Everything is right except for the part about John Collins being a bad defender.

[ninjacookies]

This will be a fun thread to bump in 5 years.

[luluNTraed]

Trae going to get some more hobby love soon, he's driven but humble, already an all star in his second year and I still think he can get better.

He needs to spend a summer with CP3 and learn how to bring those turnovers down.

[grizjunkie23]

Originally Posted by IceTrae11

Man people love to HATE Trae lol. I'll keep letting him do his thing, the chip on his shoulder grows and makes him better. He has no business being as good as he is and doesn't shrink in the spotlight like Luka.

Luka led Real Madrid to a Final Four EuroLeague victory at 18. He's leading the Mavericks to a playoff spot this season. What part of that constitutes "shrinking" in the spotlight?

[bberns]

Originally Posted by grizjunkie23

Luka led Real Madrid to a Final Four EuroLeague victory at 18. He's leading the Mavericks to a playoff spot this season. What part of that constitutes "shrinking" in the spotlight?

My favorite Luka highlight is when he canned that step back 3 in LeBron's face. Game recognize game.