2019-20 NT FOTL

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by DJP73

Its like walking in Vegas spinning Roulette wheel. ALL ON #1

“Sir the high roller area is over there”.

[Digerati]

Originally Posted by SPauthentic84

I wonder if there are actually any people who enjoy this as a hobby and not as an investment or gamble

I know lots of people that are really trying but it's getting harder every day. Just putting the $30k number on there is a new low for the hobby and I don't care if they expect that a single box will sell over 15k.
It's just offensive.

I just watched the House Of Jordans interview with Kevin Haake from Panini and he paints a really good picture of a company that wants to help and work with small businesses and collectors.
Bull$#%".
Show me how anything that has happened in the last 1-2 years has done any of that.

Then you just get the standard "yay capitalism" and "You're just jealous of the people that are making money of this" replies when you dare to express your opinion on how the "hobby" part of collecting has disappeared.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I remember when everybody championed the Dutch auction model. “We finally have a shot at the boxes!”

Tides they are a turning.

Yeah if they keep the basement as the MSRP it's fair and you have a shot. If the basement is 5-10 times MSRP as a buyer what the hell is the point of the dutch auction?

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by Digerati

I know lots of people that are really trying but it's getting harder every day. Just putting the $30k number on there is a new low for the hobby and I don't care if they expect that a single box will sell over 15k.
It's just offensive.

I just watched the House Of Jordans interview with Kevin Haake from Panini and he paints a really good picture of a company that wants to help and work with small businesses and collectors.
Bull$#%".
Show me how anything that has happened in the last 1-2 years has done any of that.

Then you just get the standard "yay capitalism" and "You're just jealous of the people that are making money of this" replies when you dare to express your opinion on how the "hobby" part of collecting has disappeared.

I think the 30k start is ridiculous but the $7.5k basement, 10 times MSRP, is the middle finger to every buyer.

[KidKards101]

Funny thing is, the tax alone depending on what state you're getting taxed at can buy you a sealed wax and some nice zion cards.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by Digerati

I know lots of people that are really trying but it's getting harder every day. Just putting the $30k number on there is a new low for the hobby and I don't care if they expect that a single box will sell over 15k.
It's just offensive.

I just watched the House Of Jordans interview with Kevin Haake from Panini and he paints a really good picture of a company that wants to help and work with small businesses and collectors.
Bull$#%".
Show me how anything that has happened in the last 1-2 years has done any of that.

Then you just get the standard "yay capitalism" and "You're just jealous of the people that are making money of this" replies when you dare to express your opinion on how the "hobby" part of collecting has disappeared.

Amen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

I think the 30k start is ridiculous but the $7.5k basement, 10 times MSRP, is the middle finger to every buyer.

Yup.

Start it at $100K, I don't care.

But to set the FLOOR at $7500 is obscene.

They should set the floor of every Dutch Auction to $0.

It would never go there, but at least it would give a semblance of hope to people.

[tommyboiazn23]

This is hilarious. Was expecting 20k dutch auction, but 30k? Panini, you have impressed me and I like it lmao. Grant it, that's a whole lot of money to be burned just to get one box, even at 7500. Definitively, not getting any, so I would assume most people are priced out

Totally forgot about tax on these, OMG. So many people going to be holding the bag on this lmao

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Maybe not you, but I’ve had countless arguments over the initial release when I tried to tell people they were paying a higher mark to Panini than they would be if these were scooped at retail and flipped on the secondary market, and at least the old way you had a shot if you were persistent (I was never shut out).

It was “I’d rather Panini get my money than a reseller”. Forgetting that people like me who would resale to people (at MSRP and YOU can confirm this) were just reinvesting our profits back into the hobby. Panini isn’t investing in the hobby.

Now, you’ve set a higher price floor and it’s still scooped by the same guys.

B

Now that you mention it, I think I do remember reading such arguments haha.

And I absolutely agree with what you said. If one was persistent, one had a good shot at landing the product. And because the margins were great, resellers often reinvested profits back into the money (I definitely picked up a number of PC cards because of it). Margins can still be good but definitely nowhere close to what they were before from a percentage standpoint.

I'm curious to know what Panini is doing will all the extra money coming in (aside from it going into paychecks of select individuals).

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by KidKards101

Funny thing is, the tax alone depending on what state you're getting taxed at can buy you a sealed some sealed wax and some zion cards.

The tax alone for most will cost more than a box of 2018-19 NT FOTL did.

[Campbelljh3]

I don’t even know how to respond to this. $30-7.5k

FML

Rich mans game is an understatement anymore. I can barely afford retail let along a part of 1 box.

Insanity at so many levels

[RogerGodahell]

I can't even imagine what the Pelicans will be In a PYT. $20k?

Prices will need to adjust again across the board after this. Get ready for another price explosion! Zion RPA $100k out the gate. Based on that rationale it only makes sense to increase the price of everything else. Maybe not, but im afraid that's what will happen. That's the way it's been going. Get ready for the next wave bois

[tommyboiazn23]

Probably can't even buy singles from this set for reasonable prices either considering the prices on these boxes will be extremely high, no bother looking at this on ebay lol

[Tonic3]

Watch the price of 2018-19 NT FOTL boxes go way up now. BO is offering to buy them at $6200 right now. I bet it’s over 8K very soon with them selling them for 10K+

It makes the price they’re selling them for now seem reasonable by comparison.

[Digitaljordan]

There is a large breaker that already has spots up for sale and I wanna say the total cost of all spots combined was something like $13k

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Now that you mention it, I think I do remember reading such arguments haha.

And I absolutely agree with what you said. If one was persistent, one had a good shot at landing the product. And because the margins were great, resellers often reinvested profits back into the money (I definitely picked up a number of PC cards because of it). Margins can still be good but definitely nowhere close to what they were before from a percentage standpoint.

I'm curious to know what Panini is doing will all the extra money coming in (aside from it going into paychecks of select individuals).

If they were smart they would be investing it in their own distribution line. Cut out the middlemen which are distributors. Yes they need them right now but if they build the infrastructure then they wouldn't. They're leaving a lot of money on the table and i'm sure they're very well aware of it.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by Tonic3

Watch the price of 2018-19 NT FOTL boxes go way up now. BO is offering to buy them at $6200 right now. I bet it’s over 8K very soon with them selling them for 10K+

It makes the price they’re selling them for now seem reasonable by comparison.

Of course, why wouldn't it? That's what I was referring to in my last post above. It won't only be wax it will be singles as well.

[mlc3423]

I managed to get in some of the earlier FOTL releases but these last few have gotten out of control.....$7500 bottom?....That's 500 Project 2020 Cards


Ninja....How many you in for?

[ballhawkdawk]

When does the price of wax stop ascending into orbit? Eventually it will hit a peak. Times are insane. $30k for a box of cards... lol.

[IndyKMB]

It's truly comical that Panini is flipping the middle finger to the average collector.
Why even offer it up like this? Just pull down the curtain on the charade and only sell it, in bulk, to breakers. I'm more upset at this than I would be at that scenario.

$7500, which it will never hit, removes the overwhelming majority of collectors. As someone stated earlier, sales tax on this alone is nearly identical to purchase price last year.

I've never sat around and hoped for things to change, but I'm starting to go that direction. We need fair competition in this marketplace, and I don't mean competition between breakers and everyday collectors.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

Of course, why wouldn't it? That's what I was referring to in my last post above. It won't only be wax it will be singles as well.

Sellers can list their singles for as high as they please. Doesnt mean anyone will buy.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Maybe not you, but I’ve had countless arguments over the initial release when I tried to tell people they were paying a higher mark to Panini than they would be if these were scooped at retail and flipped on the secondary market, and at least the old way you had a shot if you were persistent (I was never shut out).

It was “I’d rather Panini get my money than a reseller”. Forgetting that people like me who would resale to people (at MSRP and YOU can confirm this) were just reinvesting our profits back into the hobby. Panini isn’t investing in the hobby.

Now, you’ve set a higher price floor and it’s still scooped by the same guys.

B

I was one of those guys. And I still am in some way.

The problem with the old model is that, at the end, it was almost impossible to get anything without a bot. Imagine if there wasn't Dutch auction this year...how much of the product would have been picked up by hobby resellers? 5%? Maybe 10?

I'll rather have 90% of more of the people in the hobby to be able to buy boxes above MSRP but below secondary market prices than have 10% or so buy at MSRP, flip and reinvest the rest on the Hobby.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by mc1

Sellers can list their singles for as high as they please. Doesnt mean anyone will buy.

Yeah we're living in a dream world right now. The prices don't makes sense but they're all tied together so that would be my guess what will happen. I can already see it now.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

[/B]

If they were smart they would be investing it in their own distribution line. Cut out the middlemen which are distributors. Yes they need them right now but if they build the infrastructure then they wouldn't. They're leaving a lot of money on the table and i'm sure they're very well aware of it.

They don't need a distribution line for NT. If it's the same as last year it's 15,400 boxes or 3850 cases. List $4,000-$4,500 per box on their site. But no instead they will gouge everyone for every last cent on the 1200 NT FOTL boxes and leave over $50 million profit all to the distributors instead.

[Bruin7]

Absurd - how is this even affordable at $7,500? $400-$500 for a random team in a FOTL box break where 7 out of 8 people get a $10 card? Wait sorry I forgot someone will get a 1/1 printing plate LOL. I stopped group breaking in Dec/Jan and it was the best decision I ever made. What I've done in 6 months is incredible already. Have fun hunting Fat Boi Zion.