2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[Onions]

Originally Posted by zonacats8

I don't think that's a suppressor as it looks to be something just wrapped around the barrel of the gun, not attached to the end of it.

I think it's just a padding wrapped around it for when he is in position, so the metal barrel isn't up against whatever he is propping the gun on.

Admittedly I'm not gun expert, but that's what it looks like to me

It is a suppressor wrapped with a cover to dissipate heat and allow follow up shots with out distortion or "mirage" on subsequent shots.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Wrong. It is because we were the most powerful country. Guess what, in terms of other nations, who cares about that? You’re okay with laying down and taking it from Putin, that’s on you.

If Clinton (or any other leader) was helped by Russia, I would’ve denounced her as well. You know why? They do not have our best interest at heart. Doesn’t that tell you something is wrong?

It's complaining. No one takes you seriously.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

I think I can encourage all my liberal mates here to not assume everyone who disagrees with you is racist.

I can encourage all my conservative mates to read Bryan Stevenson's "Just Mercy".

I am a conservative white male who believes this country still suffers from the ripples of systemic racism.

Waiting for Chappy to chime in with challenges of proof...

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Not baiting...give me an example of what you say that is considered racist.

Times have changed. Black people have been marginalized since the beginning of the country. I have witnessed situations for years. I am a white guy. Many of my friends are black. We’ve gotten off of work, going the same speed, and they are the ones to get pulled over. This has happened so many times. I’ve been pulled over zero times.

Another time, my black buddy of 30 years, went to a bar with my white friends and I. He was the only one they didn’t let in. We all left. This is a small sample of sh!t I have witnessed. It has to stop. People are very sensitive to the language used, and rightfully so.

All lives matter can be deemed as racist to some. As evident by the Kings announcer being suspended. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, it definitely does. But sexism does, nationalism, etc etc. We need equality, period from all walks of life.

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Waiting for Chappy to chime in with challenges of proof...

(1) "Ripples" is an important word in that statement.

(2) It may be more local than regional/national, but "Just Mercy" proves it was happening in my home state as recently as the last 2-3 decades.

[rman112]

Maybe we can create a society where everyone is forced to declare what they personally denounce before they talk to someone else. It might take 10 or 15 minutes to strike up a conversation, but it'll be worth it. Racism, sexism, xenophobia, Trump, Soccer, mass genocides of babies, etc.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

I think I can encourage all my liberal mates here to not assume everyone who disagrees with you is racist.

I can encourage all my conservative mates to read Bryan Stevenson's "Just Mercy".

I am a conservative white male who believes this country still suffers from the ripples of systemic racism.

Conservative white male here too. I think there is racism, and there always will be (in every direction). Really don't see the systemic racism problem, however. What institutions are inherently racist?

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by Onions

Conservative white male here too. I think there is racism, and there always will be (in every direction). Really don't see the systemic racism problem, however. What institutions are inherently racist?

See my response to mattglet above.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Not baiting...give me an example of what you say that is considered racist.

Times have changed. Black people have been marginalized since the beginning of the country. I have witnessed situations for years. I am a white guy. Many of my friends are black. We’ve gotten off of work, going the same speed, and they are the ones to get pulled over. This has happened so many times. I’ve been pulled over zero times.

Another time, my black buddy of 30 years, went to a bar with my white friends and I. He was the only one they didn’t let in. We all left. This is a small sample of sh!t I have witnessed. It has to stop. People are very sensitive to the language used, and rightfully so.

People have to acknowledge this kind of stuff.

Adding to that, I also argue that people have to drop the argument that certain groups can't experience racial or other forms of discrimination. I say this is crucial for two reasons:

1. As a white guy, I'm not going to experience 1/100th the racial discrimination that other groups are going to experience, but guess what? The two clear instances of racial discrimination that I have experienced were incredibly eye-opening and have served to fuel a lot of my anti-racism views. The first was in Springfield, MO, when I was a 17-year old freshman and a gang of African-Americans chased me through downtown at night hurling racial epithets. (I was able to duck into a coffee shop and call for a ride) And the second was actually last year when I was called to meet with a faculty advisor regarding my "teaching philosophy." It was a friendly meeting with a white woman, but it was one in which she strongly cautioned me to reword my philosophy given that one of the two points I stressed was "A proper understanding of history should enable the cultivation of a greater sense of empathy towards all those with whom we are privileged to share the fleeting present with." I was told, in a hushed tone, to "consider my positionality" (as a white, straight, male) and seriously reconsider the idea that I might tell those who occupy different social positions to be "compassionate" towards others—including those who might have occupied the role of the oppressor in past times. Honestly, I would have rather endured a physical beating that night downtown than to have my life's work as an educator curtailed because I happen to have been born with certain genitalia or with a certain amount of melanin. I 100% believe that we all share a common humanity at our core (I'm comfortable calling it a "soul") and that properly understanding history reveals that every groups, placed in the same positions, exhibits the same behaviors and that we can learn from those good and bad examples.

2. Nothing breeds compassion and empathy like shared experiences. In normal friendships, this typically includes traveling together, eating together, or enduring a trial together. But when you tell certain groups (especially majority groups) that they are intrinsically unable to experience certain things, you simultaneously cut them off from being able to fully empathize with others who are more obviously enduring such discriminations. In other words, if our society would be willing to grant a measure of legitimacy to the once-or-twice-in-a-lifetime instances in which a white person/male person/straight person/religious or irreligious person/etc experiences discrimination, it would simultaneously legitimize a powerful wellspring of anti-discriminatory energy within that majority member: the wellspring of personal experience and personal trauma.

[Jazzer540]

I think a huge distinction needs to be made between racism and bias. I bet the majority of people have no idea the difference, hence just labeling it racism.

Bias does not always have to be bad. It is is when you change your behavior negatively because of a bias that it become racism. i.e. my wife has had a few instances of not the best mannered black people come to her when she is by herself asking for money. So when she sees someone coming to her again, she gets scared, nothing wrong with that. It would be racism when she starts making a scene, hating black people, saying they are all thiefs, etc. That is not racism. That is a bias based on her experienced.

Edit: a bias in that situation. If she is approached normally- everything is fine

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Jazzer540

I think a huge distinction needs to be made between racism and bias. I bet the majority of people have no idea the difference, hence just labeling it racism.

Bias does not always have to be bad. It is is when you change your behavior negatively because of a bias that it become racism. i.e. my wife has had a few instances of not the best mannered black people come to her when she is by herself asking for money. So when she sees someone coming to her again, she gets scared, nothing wrong with that. It would be racism when she starts making a scene, hating black people, saying they are all thiefs, etc. That is not racism. That is a bias based on her experienced.

I have noticed white homeless people are typically the best mannered while panhandling.

[mnvikingstwins]

Originally Posted by Jazzer540

I think a huge distinction needs to be made between racism and bias. I bet the majority of people have no idea the difference, hence just labeling it racism.

Bias does not always have to be bad. It is is when you change your behavior negatively because of a bias that it become racism. i.e. my wife has had a few instances of not the best mannered black people come to her when she is by herself asking for money. So when she sees someone coming to her again, she gets scared, nothing wrong with that. It would be racism when she starts making a scene, hating black people, saying they are all thiefs, etc. That is not racism. That is a bias based on her experienced.

Is there a distinction then between just and unjust bias? Because especially when I've been on college campus right near where the protests were last night, I think it's justified to be more concerned at night about groups of black people than of white people solely based on the statistics of violent crime being like 12-16x more likely only looking at cross-section of race.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Jazzer540

I think a huge distinction needs to be made between racism and bias. I bet the majority of people have no idea the difference, hence just labeling it racism.

Bias does not always have to be bad. It is is when you change your behavior negatively because of a bias that it become racism. i.e. my wife has had a few instances of not the best mannered black people come to her when she is by herself asking for money. So when she sees someone coming to her again, she gets scared, nothing wrong with that. It would be racism when she starts making a scene, hating black people, saying they are all theirs, etc. That is not racism. That is a bias based on her experienced.

Racism is defined as the "belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race". What you say may be true but to generalize that all African Americans do that would actually be racist. Your experience can influence racism.

[Jazzer540]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Racism is defined as the "belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race". What you say may be true but to generalize that all African Americans do that would actually be racist. Your experience can influence racism.

That is what I’m saying...the difference. Racism would say all will rob me. A bias would be more of an experience that in that situation, in that moment, your scared a little more.

But even that is kinda stupid to argue. If you have had a bear attack you, the next time a bear comes up to you are you going to think twice? Yes. Anything wrong with that, no. Are you going around saying every bear Will attack you, no

It’s experience, but the distinction i think is just related to the individual situations you have experience with.

[Jazzer540]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I have noticed white homeless people are typically the best mannered while panhandling.

Ha, eh not so much.

[rman112]

Come to think of it now that we're talking about racism. Are we sure Floyd was treated the way he was solely because he was black? They knew each other..

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Jazzer540

That is what I’m saying...the difference. Racism would say all will rob me. A bias would be more of an experience that in that situation, in that moment, your scared a little more.

But even that is kinda stupid to argue. If you have had a bear attack you, the next time a bear comes up to you are you going to think twice? Yes. Anything wrong with that, no. Are you going around saying every bear Will attack you, no

It’s experience, but the distinction i think is just related to the individual situations you have experience with.

Okay lets put it this way then, what was something you would say was a bias in this thread but wasn't racist? I get what you're saying but they pretty much go hand and hand.

[Jazzer540]

Originally Posted by mnvikingstwins

Is there a distinction then between just and unjust bias? Because especially when I've been on college campus right near where the protests were last night, I think it's justified to be more concerned at night about groups of black people than of white people solely based on the statistics of violent crime being like 12-16x more likely only looking at cross-section of race.

Definitely. Just is I feel based on your experience. Unjust starts going in the wrong direction. I have been robbed 3 times in my life. All 3 times were by a group of black men. Does that mean I think all are like that- heck no. But I have an experience that when I see a group of shady looking people are around my house do I think a little more if they were black then white, yes a little because of my experience.

Distinction is if I would go around having a ideal that all black people are criminals

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Waiting for Chappy to chime in with challenges of proof...

Originally Posted by calculusdork

(1) "Ripples" is an important word in that statement.

(2) It may be more local than regional/national, but "Just Mercy" proves it was happening in my home state as recently as the last 2-3 decades.

It's too late and I am too tired (he said before replying). I will fight anyone to the death that believes that the system is racist. To my knowledge, there is no law, no system, no "thing" that creates racism in this country ... EXCEPT for Harvard (LOL).

People are racist. Ideas are racist but the second you start coming to me and telling me that the reason for xyz is the system and not the individual, you'll lose me. You can find racism most everywhere; I have no doubt that there are still many many Americans who think their skin makes them more valuable than others.

But that doesn't mean this country rewards it, caters to it or condones it. People have to be accountable for their actions. Bottom line. It's the not the system, it's you. And the more you blame the system, the more dependent you become to it.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

It's too late and I am too tired (he said before replying). I will fight anyone to the death that believes that the system is racist. To my knowledge, there is no law, no system, no "thing" that creates racism in this country ... EXCEPT for Harvard (LOL).

People are racist. Ideas are racist but the second you start coming to me and telling me that the reason for xyz is the system and not the individual, you'll lose me. You can find racism most everywhere; I have no doubt that there are still many many Americans who think their skin makes them more valuable than others.

But that doesn't mean this country rewards it, caters to it or condones it. People have to be accountable for their actions. Bottom line. It's the not the system, it's you. And the more you blame the system, the more dependent you become to it.

People would get more mileage out of it if they said we have a problem with "subconscious racism" as opposed to "systemic racism."

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

People would get more mileage out of it if they said we have a problem with "subconscious racism" as opposed to "systemic racism."

I've heard this argument but I have never understood it. If we don't know subconsciously that we are being racist then 1) how do we stop it and 2) how do we know that we are being racist since it's subconscious.

[Jazzer540]

Originally Posted by rman112

Come to think of it now that we're talking about racism. Are we sure Floyd was treated the way he was solely because he was black? They knew each other..

At this point, there is no proof The officer did it because of racism. I have been curious to know all the other accounts against him if they were all towards minorities. They haven’t released that information. If it was he had several complaints about him but we’re equal of race.... well then, he was just a crappy cop and it wasn’t necessarily racism. I wonder why they haven’t released that info?

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by mike1498

I've heard this argument but I have never understood it. If we don't know subconsciously that we are being racist then 1) how do we stop it and 2) how do we know that we are being racist since it's subconscious.

The problem with "systemic racism" is that it argues that racism is embedded within the social/political/economic systems—but in the end it's always forced to point to outcomes and effects rather than identifying actual structural elements of racism. As NC said, you can't point to any actual laws or policies that are actually racist like you could back in the days of Jim Crow.

Hence the argument for subconscious or subliminal racism—which would offer an explanation for why we see racist outcomes in some instances but can't point to specific laws or policies.

[Jazzer540]

Originally Posted by mike1498

I've heard this argument but I have never understood it. If we don't know subconsciously that we are being racist then 1) how do we stop it and 2) how do we know that we are being racist since it's subconscious.

I’ve heard that too, again I think the word is the wrong use. I believe the original statement of that ideal talks about being bias- and THAT is based on experience

[Jazzer540]

I am married to a Mexican- she talks loud. Her family and friends- talk loud. I live in Miami- a lot of Hispanics talk loud.

My bias, based on my experience, is Hispanics talk loud. Is that wrong of me to have that thought because of my experience? Does that mean I judge or change my attitude towards loud speaking people-no

I think that is Bias due to experience vs. everything else