2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by jdandns

Yang fully supports Biden/Harris.
Why wouldn't his own supporters?

Because political candidates need parties whereas parties need voters.

I liked Yang and I'm not voting for Biden/Harris. But because Yang is willing to do the bare minimum in towing the party line, I have a much better chance at being able to support him again in 2024 than if he went rogue.

I hate the parties but reality demands a measure of pragmatism.

[Yanks23]

Originally Posted by jdandns

This ignores that Trump himself owes Russia tons of money and also that Putin has in his possession a scandalous videotape containing some of Trump's more salacious activities. Taken all together, it's a rich tapestry.

Did the Russians come and vote in the US election? So what we are saying is that voters made up their minds to vote for Trump because they say stuff on Twitter and Facebook? Federal govt spend how many millions of $$ on these investigations to tell us the Russia and other countries post fake #@#@#@#@ on-line. Wow. They are genius.

[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

If anyone here is actually interested in discussing Russian interference in good faith, then they've got to tell the whole story.

Russia hated Hillary more than it liked Trump and its overall goal was to stir up racial tensions.

This is why professional journalists have and will be important. Someone needs to wade through the muck and try to piece together an accurate story of reality. Another impossible job

For what its worth, I think like a lot of us Trump took the bait but I don't think he's receiving any favors from Russia.

[hairysasquatch]

Was that massage for Bill on the trip where he was playing the bongos like a madman? Epstein threw one hell of a party!

[SleeperCards]

Originally Posted by jdandns

Yang fully supports Biden/Harris.
Why wouldn't his own supporters?

I can't speak for all Yang supporters, but I think most will support the ticket as it helps Andrew. I do, but I just find it sad we had such a great option available to us and now we're stuck choosing between two dementia patients. Biden is the only other candidate to use the term 4th industrial revolution, so even if someone on his staff spoon fed him the idea, he was at least familiar with parts of Yang's platform. The DNC originally didn't schedule Yang to speak, now he has the slot right before Biden on Thursday, hopefully he doesn't get cut for "time".

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

**Crickets**

What will be the spin on this gem, jd?

We know this is bogus. James Comey said that General Flynn's conversations with Kislyak were normal. If the committee missed something so obvious, what else did they miss?

Trump transition: Russia "took advantage" of members of the Trump transition team’s "relative inexperience in government, opposition to Obama administration policies, and Trump’s desire to deepen ties with Russia to pursue unofficial channels through which Russia could conduct diplomacy," the committee determined.

The transition team "repeatedly took actions that had the potential, and sometimes the effect," of interfering with the Obama administration's diplomatic efforts, including former national security adviser Michael Flynn's conversations with the former Russian ambassador.

[TheFrenzy]

Biden's first act as president and probably the best response to the last four years:

[TheFrenzy]

Also, in addition to Kamehameha-la Harris, I think "Law & Oprah" is a good nickname.

I get that conservatives might be irked over the stunt-nature of her nomination, but overall Harris is pretty far *from a progressive and I feel like she would align better with the GOP than the Bernie/Yang/AOC side of the DNC.

*typo, I accidentally left out a word

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Biden's first act as president and probably the best response to the last four years:

I don't think it's a good idea to make China the manufacturing center of the world again and Middle east wars are a proven terrible idea.

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

If anyone here is actually interested in discussing Russian interference in good faith, then they've got to tell the whole story.

Russia hated Hillary more than it liked Trump and its overall goal was to stir up racial tensions.

Trump and Stone lied to the American people as well as investigators in regard to the active searching for and acceptance of a foreign hostile power to help in an election.

Can we agree on that?

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Also, in addition to Kamehameha-la Harris, I think "Law & Oprah" is a good nickname.

I get that conservatives might be irked over the stunt-nature of her nomination, but overall Harris is pretty far a progressive and I feel like she would align better with the GOP than the Bernie/Yang/AOC side of the DNC.

But right now the Neoliberal portion of the DNC runs the show. That's not to say many on the left don't tow that line, because they absolutely do. That's also not to say many who prefer B/Y/A side (myself) agree with everything the further left side of the party endorses, because they don't.

The Democrats once again have bet the house that their voters will turn out to oppose Donald Trump. The positioning isn't the best, and it didn't work last election. It has a better shot this time around, not because of anything the Democratic party has/hasn't done, just the vibe of the electorate. It's not a long term party platform.

This is why the Republican party nominated Donald Trump. You can't just be "against" something forever, and while Trump is outspoken against the Democrats he also stands for something and has his own (sometimes misplaced) political agenda.

I really wish Donald Trump was more politically savvy, because a lot of what he talked about on the campaign trail in 15/16 were winning issues. He hasn't fulfilled many of his campaign promises, or at least not the ones I wish he would have. Some he has fulfilled and I agree with, some he has and I disagree.

If he would have stepped in and truly flexed political muscle against the establishment Republicans he'd be winning in a landslide. Day 1 should have been a massive infrastructure spending bill like he promised. The Democrats couldn't have opposed him politically, and the Republicans would have bent the knee as he is the most popular Republican in the party and steers their ship. Notice how after his EO two weekends ago none of thee mainline Republicans opposed him, even though the weeks prior they were lambasting against almost everything he was standing for. They don't have the political clout to oppose him. To do so is a major risk, just look at Jeff Sessions.

Flex that political muscle Don

[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinq.../#2f79ab85cb0e

The Obama recovery of the last seven years remains the worst in postwar American history.

I don't know how either side can call the other a sheep. This is not an article, just a lobbyist stump speech, which the author clearly is. There's some truth sprinkled in there but finding a clear picture of reality is not the writers intent.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

Trump and Stone lied to the American people as well as investigators in regard to the active searching for and acceptance of a foreign hostile power to help in an election.

Can we agree on that?

Do we agree that the protests and BLM movement are exactly what Putin wants as well?

Do we fully agree that the GOP is complicit in helping Russia undermine our political order while the DNC is complicit in helping Russia undermine our social order?

Because all of the above is true but a lot of people still want to pick and choose.

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Do we agree that the protests and BLM movement are exactly what Putin wants as well?

Do we fully agree that the GOP is complicit in helping Russia undermine our political order while the DNC is complicit in helping Russia undermine our social order?

Because all of the above is true but a lot of people still want to pick and choose.

I agree Putin wants discord here (I read the report of what he wants)

I am focused on the report, released TODAY from the Intelligence Agency:

Based on what the report clearly states, there is NO doubt the Trump Campaign, for the 2016 election - colluded with Russia.

col·lu·sion
/kəˈlo͞oZHən/
noun
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

[SleeperCards]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Do we agree that the protests and BLM movement are exactly what Putin wants as well?

Do we fully agree that the GOP is complicit in helping Russia undermine our political order while the DNC is complicit in helping Russia undermine our social order?

Because all of the above is true but a lot of people still want to pick and choose.

I don't think that's a great comparison at all. The civil rights movement pleased (and was supported by) Russia as well, anything where Americans are at odds with each other is a boon for them, but that doesn't mean the struggle for equality should be disregarded. That's absolutely not the same thing as soliciting help from a foreign power. Yes, both involve Russia and benefit them, but do you really think MLK and BLM were happening BECAUSE of Russia? Of course not.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

But right now the Neoliberal portion of the DNC runs the show. That's not to say many on the left don't tow that line, because they absolutely do. That's also not to say many who prefer B/Y/A side (myself) agree with everything the further left side of the party endorses, because they don't.

The Democrats once again have bet the house that their voters will turn out to oppose Donald Trump. The positioning isn't the best, and it didn't work last election. It has a better shot this time around, not because of anything the Democratic party has/hasn't done, just the vibe of the electorate. It's not a long term party platform.

This is why the Republican party nominated Donald Trump. You can't just be "against" something forever, and while Trump is outspoken against the Democrats he also stands for something and has his own (sometimes misplaced) political agenda.

I really wish Donald Trump was more politically savvy, because a lot of what he talked about on the campaign trail in 15/16 were winning issues. He hasn't fulfilled many of his campaign promises, or at least not the ones I wish he would have. Some he has fulfilled and I agree with, some he has and I disagree.

If he would have stepped in and truly flexed political muscle against the establishment Republicans he'd be winning in a landslide. Day 1 should have been a massive infrastructure spending bill like he promised. The Democrats couldn't have opposed him politically, and the Republicans would have bent the knee as he is the most popular Republican in the party and steers their ship. Notice how after his EO two weekends ago none of thee mainline Republicans opposed him, even though the weeks prior they were lambasting against almost everything he was standing for. They don't have the political clout to oppose him. To do so is a major risk, just look at Jeff Sessions.

Flex that political muscle Don

I agree.

I think Trump could have been more effective.

Trump had been cut off at the knees in his first term. The entire world was bombarded every single day by the media pushing the Russian Collusion lie. He had no political capital and weak kneed Replicans were not willing to stake their political careers on it if it were possibly true. Then when that flamed out, they impeached him on the weakest impeachment case that will ever be brought. *Unless he wins a 2nd term.

Proof that the daily indoctrination of the weak minded worked? There are people that still actually believe it today.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by Onions

I agree.

I think Trump could have been more effective.

Trump had been cut off at the knees in his first term. The entire world was bombarded every single day by the media pushing the Russian Collusion lie. He had no political capital and weak kneed Replicans were not willing to stake their political careers on it if it were possibly true. Then when that flamed out, they impeached him on the weakest impeachment case that will ever be brought. *Unless he wins a 2nd term.

Proof that the daily indoctrination of the weak minded worked? There are people that still actually believe it today.

Look less than 3 posts above your for proof.

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

I agree Putin wants discord here (I read the report of what he wants)

I am focused on the report, released TODAY from the Intelligence Agency:

Based on what the report clearly states, there is NO doubt the Trump Campaign, for the 2016 election - colluded with Russia.

col·lu·sion
/kəˈlo͞oZHən/
noun
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

It's not a report by the Intelligence Agencies. This is a report by the Senate Intelligence Committee that has oversight of the IC.

The source gave them bad information on the transition team and the conversations between Flynn and Kislyak. Everyone has seen the transcripts. Flynn clearly talks about the Russians responding to sanctions with something equivalent so there does not need to be a back and forth tit for tat. A normal conversation that even James Comey said was not suspicious.

We also know that the IC was highly compromised from the recent confirmation that data presented to the FISA court was altered to spy on the President. There is also a huge laundry list of high level IC officials that have been fired or resigned because of their suspect activity.

In addition, I don't trust this committee farther than I can kick them because they leak like a sieve. James Wolf was the Director of Security for the committee that leaked the unredacted Carter Page FISA to the NYT reporter that he was banging, Ali Watkins. Unbelievable. And yes, that is the same FISA warrant that was renewed after the FBI hid that the source for the Steel Dossier was a joke, was funded by the Clintons and then altered an email so the FISC court wouldn't find out that Page worked for the CIA.

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Look less than 3 posts above your for proof.

You need to read the entire report

The Trump campaign actively sought and accepted Russian assistance.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by SleeperCards

I don't think that's a great comparison at all. The civil rights movement pleased (and was supported by) Russia as well, anything where Americans are at odds with each other is a boon for them, but that doesn't mean the struggle for equality should be disregarded. That's absolutely not the same thing as soliciting help from a foreign power. Yes, both involve Russia and benefit them, but do you really think MLK and BLM were happening BECAUSE of Russia? Of course not.

It's pretty apples to apples.

There were millions who legitimately decided to vote for Trump. But Russia helped tip the scales and now we've got a political mess.

There were millions who recognized lingering patterns of discrimination. But Russia helped tip the scales and now we've got a social mess.

Russia is getting a 2 for 1 deal with both Trump's ineptitude and the BLM protests facilitating the massive spread of COVID.

[TheFrenzy]

If anything, this is a beautiful opportunity for both sides to pause and see what the other side is seeing.

Trump Supporters: "There's no way Russian online activity is responsible for the views and actions of myself and those like me. Our positions have developed over time—long before Russian interference began—and in response to gross misdeeds by our opponents. History, not internet trolls, explains this movement......but I can certainly see how easily manipulated the other side is and it's baffling that they can't see how they are playing into Putin's hands."

BLM Supporters: "There's no way Russian online activity is responsible for the views and actions of myself and those like me. Our positions have developed over time—long before Russian interference began—and in response to gross misdeeds by our opponents. History, not internet trolls, explains this movement......but I can certainly see how easily manipulated the other side is and it's baffling that they can't see how they are playing into Putin's hands."

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by tpeichel34

It's not a report by the Intelligence Agencies. This is a report by the Senate Intelligence Committee that has oversight of the IC.

The source gave them bad information on the transition team and the conversations between Flynn and Kislyak. Everyone has seen the transcripts. Flynn clearly talks about the Russians responding to sanctions with something equivalent so there does not need to be a back and forth tit for tat. A normal conversation that even James Comey said was not suspicious.

We also know that the IC was highly compromised from the recent confirmation that data presented to the FISA court was altered to spy on the President. There is also a huge laundry list of high level IC officials that have been fired or resigned because of their suspect activity.

In addition, I don't trust this committee farther than I can kick them because they leak like a sieve. James Wolf was the Director of Security for the committee that leaked the unredacted Carter Page FISA to the NYT reporter that he was banging, Ali Watkins. Unbelievable. And yes, that is the same FISA warrant that was renewed after the FBI hid that the source for the Steel Dossier was a joke, was funded by the Clintons and then altered an email so the FISC court wouldn't find out that Page worked for the CIA.

I get it - the dossier ... I have not once discounted what done

That still does NOT discount what Manafort's role was in Russian and Ukraine from 2004 to 2016
It still doesn't discount he wasn't hired by Trumps campaign and had conversations with Trump
and it doesn't discount he was actively working with Russia before, during and after the election.


Manafort WAS part of the Trump campaign and if you REALLY want to believe Trump knew nothing about what Manafort was doing - then you believe that.

I didn't like Trump before this but now this seals it for me - he is a disgrace and a traitor.

[SleeperCards]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

It's pretty apples to apples.

There were millions who legitimately decided to vote for Trump. But Russia helped tip the scales and now we've got a political mess.

There were millions who recognized lingering patterns of discrimination. But Russia helped tip the scales and now we've got a social mess.

Russia is getting a 2 for 1 deal with both Trump's ineptitude and the BLM protests facilitating the massive spread of COVID.

Well, if that's how you feel we'll just have to disagree. I think we both agree that Russia benefits (and nothing benefits Russia more than having Trump as president), but I have issue with the inference that people wouldn't be protesting for equality with or without Russia. And just to note, I completely agree that Russia IS involved there, playing BOTH sides. A large percentage of those anti-mask, open up FB pages were run by Russia.

[Hootiefish]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

It's pretty apples to apples.

There were millions who legitimately decided to vote for Trump. But Russia helped tip the scales and now we've got a political mess.

There were millions who recognized lingering patterns of discrimination. But Russia helped tip the scales and now we've got a social mess.

Russia is getting a 2 for 1 deal with both Trump's ineptitude and the BLM protests facilitating the massive spread of COVID.

This is a good synopsis.

Sadly, our president will see the report and throw a fit, denying that Russia did anything to help his election chances, thus causing his followers to repeat the refrain, thus sending us further down the rabbit hole.

Russia played our asses, and continue to do so.

[SleeperCards]

Originally Posted by Hootiefish

Russia played our asses, and continue to do so.

At least people are recognizing this.