Topps Project 2020 is the worst product since 1991 Fleer

[UGLI baby]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

I think so...not counting this one:

Companion or otherwise, I ain’t gonna be the one to tell the Beast he wasn’t first!!

[BigEd]

I kinda wish they hadn't included multiple players from the same team. Even as a total Dodgers homer, I would have been happy with just one. Replacing Koufax, Mattingly, and Rivera with Banks, Aaron, and Glad (edit: thanks autocorrect) Guerrero would have been good.

[ThoseBackPages]

no matter which 20 they would have went with, not everyone would be happy, thats for sure

[BigEd]

For sure. But they made the right choice by not including Acuna.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by BigEd

For sure. But they made the right choice by not including Acuna.

Yes, Only Trout belongs from active players

[Jopeal]

Made my first purchase from Wheeler Collection last night.

Saladeen Frank Thomas was a must-have for me

Thanks!

[fjdlrw]

It's the Tigers fan in me, but I would've liked Kaline in the set. Kirby Puckett could be interesting, too. Overall, I'm happy with Topps choices, though.

[Silas Barnaby]

3 Yankees, 2 Dodgers, 2 Mets, 2 A's, 2 Mariners does take up a lot of potential spots for other teams to be represented.

And NYC is probably overrepresented with 8 players.

[1977 Cloth]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Yes, Only Trout belongs from active players

Pujols is definitely an active player that would have worked.


Kershaw would have been an option as well.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Made my first purchase from Wheeler Collection last night.

Saladeen Frank Thomas was a must-have for me

Thanks!

You're welcome.

Thank YOU!

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by rats60

No, TBP is wrong. He is not the arbiter for this project. Topps is the one who calls the shots, no one else. I don't see how some on this board want to give weight to hateful people.

You just made clear one of the main problems with BO--people taking others' opinions of cards far too personally.

No one has any obligation to agree with anything another member has posted, but to argue that TBP is a "hateful person" for not liking some cards is nonsense.

Hateful is when people attack each other in a forum, not just their opinions, kind of like what you're doing.

[1977 Cloth]

I value all of your opinions, they just tend to be wrong if they not in line with mine.

[1977 Cloth]

If it were not for Project 2020 I would not have known of Blake Jamieson's work and would not have been able to get this done. I should have it in hand shortly and I am excited to put it up. It has been great to work with Blake on this and some of you may have seen him making it on one of his You Tube videos.

[DMS6391]

Originally Posted by BigEd

I kinda wish they hadn't included multiple players from the same team. Even as a total Dodgers homer, I would have been happy with just one. Replacing Koufax, Mattingly, and Rivera with Banks, Aaron, and Glad (edit: thanks autocorrect) Guerrero would have been good.

I agree with that. Especially with Rivera and Jeter both being Yankees of the same era. I don't have a big problem with multiple players from the same team (some teams have lots of great players!) but if we're keeping it in the same era, I would've replaced Rivera with a non-Yankee pitcher from the 90s-00s.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

You just made clear one of the main problems with BO--people taking others' opinions of cards far too personally.

No one has any obligation to agree with anything another member has posted, but to argue that TBP is a "hateful person" for not liking some cards is nonsense.

Hateful is when people attack each other in a forum, not just their opinions, kind of like what you're doing.

To be fair, TBP has called one of the P2020 artists a "fraud". That was probably at least borderline hateful at the time.

Sometimes we have to call a spade a spade.

[BigEd]

Yes, this is all fine and good, but -

WHERE ARE MY PRINT RUNS?!

Seriously, I'm gone through withdrawals.

[Silas Barnaby]

Originally Posted by BigEd

WHERE ARE MY PRINT RUNS?!

I'd say Monday at the latest.

Heckman is apparently on a lavish beach vacation.

And the resort has a nice new washer dryer but it only takes quarters.

[blakejamieson]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

I agree with you 100% that it shouldn’t matter how much time an artist spends on a piece to determine its worth. But you’re leaving out one very important factor in your football analogy...

Some people are paid more than others because of raw talent and natural ability. Stuff they were born with.

Most people have to work extremely hard to compete. Like you said, they have to spend long hours crafting their skill, missing out on many fun aspects of life. Some even cheat by taking drugs to enhance their abilities. Others are born with skills most don’t have. Speed and size for instance are genetic.

I believe art is the same. Just about anyone can learn how to draw, paint, sculpt, etc. if they spend the time learning how to. If they are disciplined. Others somehow are born with the ability to please others with their work. Was it DaVinci’s teacher who never painted again once he realized his student was more than he could ever become? (I’ve heard that tale before but don’t recall the artist). Then there’s the story of the famous artist that wanted a particular job and to get it, he impressed his commissioner by drawing a perfect circle free-hand...something at the time most thought was impossible.

Talent is real. People are born with specific skill sets. I think we all are. Some of us never figure out what ours are. Some of us do.

While this MIGHT be true, there is no way to know for sure. To be certain, you'd need to take two different people (with different "innate" skills), and have them train EXACTLY the same, with EXACTLY the same practice, efforts, and enthusiasm. And that's not how things work.

It's easy to feel like you are bad at art, for example, and see someone else as "naturally gifted." But can you be sure that you only perceive them as naturally talented because of subtleties throughout their life that has guided them in a creative direction? I'd argue you cannot (be sure).

I believe nurture has a much bigger impact than nature. But then again, that's also impossible to objectively prove correct.

[UGLI baby]

Jeff!! Get the Heck off the beach, man!

[dodgersinfinity]

Print run withdrawls!

[Silas Barnaby]

Originally Posted by blakejamieson

While this MIGHT be true, there is no way to know for sure. To be certain, you'd need to take two different people (with different "innate" skills), and have them train EXACTLY the same, with EXACTLY the same practice, efforts, and enthusiasm. And that's not how things work.

I believe nurture has a much bigger impact than nature. But then again, that's also impossible to objectively prove correct.

My wife has been to those 'drink wine and paint a picture' nights and from those results it seems like there are some with natural talent and some without!

[crtsports]

Originally Posted by UGLI baby

Jeff!! Get the Heck off the beach, man!

Originally Posted by dodgersinfinity

Print run withdrawls!

I demand that Jeff tell us ahead of time of his vacation schedule so that we can plan accordingly!

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by 1977 Cloth

If it were not for Project 2020 I would not have known of Blake Jamieson's work and would not have been able to get this done. I should have it in hand shortly and I am excited to put it up. It has been great to work with Blake on this and some of you may have seen him making it on one of his You Tube videos.

Attachment 490220

the detail on this art is weep-worthy!

[dbpsooner]

Originally Posted by Silas Barnaby

My wife has been to those 'drink wine and paint a picture' nights and from those results it seems like there are some with natural talent and some without!

This made me laugh.

After thinking about it more, I think my criticism of Vides is probably somewhat misguided. I think my biggest issue is my own personal disappointment in what he has released. Having seen some of his other work, I feel like there is a set in there that would look amazing...to me. If he played with the colors more, using black and white primarity, with team colors mixed in, I think his cards/set would be at the very top of my list. Obviously he had a different vision and I shouldn't project my disappointment onto his effort level for this project. But I will remain disappointed...

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by blakejamieson

While this MIGHT be true, there is no way to know for sure. To be certain, you'd need to take two different people (with different "innate" skills), and have them train EXACTLY the same, with EXACTLY the same practice, efforts, and enthusiasm. And that's not how things work.

It's easy to feel like you are bad at art, for example, and see someone else as "naturally gifted." But can you be sure that you only perceive them as naturally talented because of subtleties throughout their life that has guided them in a creative direction? I'd argue you cannot (be sure).

I believe nurture has a much bigger impact than nature. But then again, that's also impossible to objectively prove correct.

In regards to football, (your analogy), there is no "might be true" about it. I played football, and I saw kids with nothing but speed get full ride scholarships based solely on potential. They weren't good at catching the football and couldn't hang on to it if it was handed to them, yet they were offensive players that sat the bench with full-ride scholarships.

They were born with the speed, and they were paid for that speed. While others were paid because they honed their skills in regards to fundamentals by sacrificing time spent doing other things.

I also have 6 children, and I can tell you that some are more artistically inclined than others. One in particular is very good and has won local and state competitions at a young age. All of my kids had the same teachers and opportunities growing up. So while you might be right saying "might", you also might be wrong, and I think there is good evidence that suggests people are born with different talents...athletically, artistically, and otherwise.