2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by trixstar

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/20...-twitch-403843


Racism, sexism congregate on Trump's Twitch channels during RNC

Trump is responsible for the viewer comment section now.

[xbignick]

Originally Posted by trixstar

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/20...-twitch-403843


Racism, sexism congregate on Trump's Twitch channels during RNC

Lol...





Are people really running out of things to write about? This is every single channel on twitch.

People don't 'tweet' on twitch. Surprised a 28 year old woman wrote this and not a 68 year old man.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I also refrain from talking politics with my relatives. I just stay silent and mostly ignore everyone because it's a whole lot of exactly what you said. Sometimes I'll intentionally just throw in some facts to disprove what they're saying to make them mad but it doesn't matter because they're so deep in their beliefs that no matter what I say it's not gonna change.

100%. I actively avoid political discussions when possible, but I also think some of it is unavoidable at the moment. Covid is political. Racial stuff is political. At this point I'm pretty good art brushing off both sides without hurting any feelings.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Listen to yourself, though. "They" are so deep in their beliefs, right? But aren't you the same, since you obviously aren't being swayed by anything they are saying?

Don't take that as an insult. I'm the same way. But at least own it. Too many people say that "they" are narrow-minded, but we all are.

I say no because when I was younger I was buying into that mentality and I've changed my views pretty significantly over some time since I've been an adult.

I like to think that my views are somewhat fluid if compelling information is provided to me. I think it's important to hear from all different viewpoints that way I can take in all the information and evaluate it myself.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

I think body cams are more appropriate for police because they are the group legally authorized to kill.

My point was that any profession that brings professionals daily into contact with people in crisis is going to inevitably produce instances that would provoke outrage if broadcast. It’s unavoidable [not to say this makes it acceptable] when humans are trying to help humans.

I gotchu. Brings up the question of whether we want a world with less freedom and constant surveillance for the sake of security. For me that's a 'no', but I wouldn't be shocked if we got there.

[Athey49]

Originally Posted by jdandns

This makes zero sense.
Trump is the known serial abuser of women, not Biden

But by that logic, Biden also abused a woman. Unless you don't believe Tara Reade. So is it ok to vote for a guy who might have only done it once over a guy who might have done it numerous times? I personally would not vote Biden with one of the reasons being "The other guy sexually abused woman" when Biden allegedly did the same thing.

People can go ahead and vote either way for reasons such as the economy, reproductive rights, etc but to call one of the two a sexual predator and not the other is unfair. And I've said this same thing to my Trump supporter cousin who only brings up the Biden/Reade case and none of the related allegations with Trump.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I think that in order for any actual progress to be made, we need to isolate each issue and approach them separately. There are a number of issues being brought up that get all jumbled up and it makes a mess of the discussion. Isolate issues, focus on causes, focus on solutions.

- Black men are being disproportionately shot by police
- Black men are being disproportionately harassed by police
- Lower income urban areas (black) are lagging behind in terms of outcomes
- Systemic racism is a problem
- Other stuff

Define the issue > review the data and evidence to determine if the premise is true > analyze what factors make the premise true > work on solutions


If we focus on the first one above...

There is no data or study that I'm aware of that supports the narrative that blacks are being disproportionately killed by police. If we've defined the problem based on the statistic that blacks represent 13% of the population and some larger percentage of police shootings against blacks, that's lazy and dishonest. Lazy and dishonest has no place in a solution oriented discussion. The numbers are so low (14 unarmed blacks shot by police in 2019) that in a country of 300+ million and seeing how some of these incidents escalate, I can't agree with the conclusion that this, by itself, is a real problem that needs to be worked on. When you control for the number of police interactions by race and/or violent crimes committed by race, the shooting data more or less levels out.


This isn't to say that there isn't room for improvement. But we absolutely need to set realistic expectations. In a gun country where I believe the number was 37 cops were shot and killed in 2019, a number of police-civilian interactions are high pressure, high stakes situations. These aren't scenarios where the cops are the only ones who won't suffer an injury or death, and that is something they consider during these interactions.

The data does support the narrative that police are more likely to put hands on a black or Latino suspect than a white suspect, even when controlling for certain variables.

So why does that make body cams more appropriate for police? I'd say that there's a mutual benefit to protect all parties involved. Plus it's the hot topic and we're trying to work on police reform.

I think trying to build better relationships within communities where police trust is lowest is a necessary step. If defunding the police is something a particular city wants to try, have a blast. I'm certain it won't go well, but I'm not opposed to letting it happen as an experiment. They can even use Philly for all I care. The amount of crime in these areas is far more crippling than anything the police are doing, which is not to dismiss negative actions by police, but to keep an honest perspective. One idea I've heard is to have the makeup of the police force more in line with the makeup of the community that they are policing. I'm conflicted on this since I thought the end goal was to live in a country as close to colorless as possible with a diverse population living together harmoniously, but I'm also not opposed to the idea. I think more cops, and even more importantly much more community involvement involving amicable interactions between police and civilians is a crucial step.

Victimless crimes aren't crimes. Let's stop arresting people for drugs. If police are overworked and underpaid as it is, then let's reduce the burden placed on them to give people who are minding their own business a hard time. There are many cops who already don't take weed seriously, but let's do away with the criminalization entirely so that it isn't even on the table as something they have to focus on.

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Someone smarter than me in psychology may know this... but why is it that we seek out people that agree with us and evidence that confirms our existing biases? Is it because we would rather just feel good about ourselves and want to believe that our initial conclusions are always correct? That's... not how science and stuff work. I remember from, like, elementary school... form a hypothesis and get to work. I forget all of the steps, but there was no step about dismissing evidence contrary to the hypothesis.

I primarily seek out evidence that contradicts my existing beliefs because there's more to be learned from it. Sometimes I end up confirming my beliefs. Sometimes I change them slightly. Sometimes I completely flip my belief around. My quest is not to be right but to eventually get it right.

Granted, if we rolled back the clock 10-15 years, I'd be more likely to dig my heels in no matter how dumb my ideas were, but part of being young is being dumb and ignorant. I continue to see this stuff from people who are in their 40s, 50s, and so on.

There's a lot to unpack here and credit to you for putting in the time and energy necessary to formulate a lengthy response.

I'm likely going to make an unskillful attempt at consolidating my response to these bolded focal points, and apologies if you feel anything is being dismissed from your original post.

The U.S. is a heavily-armed country with a normalized penchant for violent conflict resolution. This is a separate cultural issue that will likely take decades to improve, and I agree we need to all temper expectations when dealing with gun-related police-civilian interactions. With a high likelihood of civilians being armed in police interactions in the U.S, the stakes are far higher if the interaction is to escalate.
When the mainstream continues to highlight deadly police altercations, in my view its highlighting the extremes of widespread decades old tensions that exist between minorities and the criminal justice system. Sometimes the greater narrative gets lost in the insular discussion of police shootings of black men which is counterproductive to the bigger issues with policing and our justice system.

Trust absolutely needs to be rebuilt between police and the communities they are policing. Putting sole blame on the media for sewing discord between police and civilians is at best disingenuous. I have personally watched as all over the country police have become more militarized and isolated from the people they are policing.
As a country we're significantly over-policing non-violent offenses and traffic violations, both of which only further the divide between police and civilians and both of which disproportionately affect impoverished and minority groups from a criminal & financial standpoint.

On all sides of the political spectrum we need to stop excusing our flawed and unfair justice system.

As for your contention that you increasingly seek out new information and that which contradicts your own views, you seem to be in the minority with regard to this trait although I find the youngest among us to have a greater likelihood for openness and neuroplasticity than previous generations.

The reason I so often site psychology principles in my posts is because as a country we're more conditioned to label rights and wrongs, rather than delve into the nuanced grey area that exists in most circumstances.
The growing 'mindfulness movement,' encompassing yoga, meditation, counseling, and self-improvement is a positive sign for our psychological future in this country.

I'm sure I glazed over certain points in this response but hoping it will further the dialogue.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

There's a lot to unpack here and credit to you for putting in the time and energy necessary to formulate a lengthy response.

I'm likely going to make an unskillful attempt at consolidating my response to these bolded focal points, and apologies if you feel anything is being dismissed from your original post.

The U.S. is a heavily-armed country with a normalized penchant for violent conflict resolution. This is a separate cultural issue that will likely take decades to improve, and I agree we need to all temper expectations when dealing with gun-related police-civilian interactions. With a high likelihood of civilians being armed in police interactions in the U.S, the stakes are far higher if the interaction is to escalate.
When the mainstream continues to highlight deadly police altercations, in my view its highlighting the extremes of widespread decades old tensions that exist between minorities and the criminal justice system. Sometimes the greater narrative gets lost in the insular discussion of police shootings of black men which is counterproductive to the bigger issues with policing and our justice system.

Trust absolutely needs to be rebuilt between police and the communities they are policing. Putting sole blame on the media for sewing discord between police and civilians is at best disingenuous. I have personally watched as all over the country police have become more militarized and isolated from the people they are policing.
As a country we're significantly over-policing non-violent offenses and traffic violations, both of which only further the divide between police and civilians and both of which disproportionately affect impoverished and minority groups from a criminal & financial standpoint.

On all sides of the political spectrum we need to stop excusing our flawed and unfair justice system.

As for your contention that you increasingly seek out new information and that which contradicts your own views, you seem to be in the minority with regard to this trait although I find the youngest among us to have a greater likelihood for openness and neuroplasticity than previous generations.

The reason I so often site psychology principles in my posts is because as a country we're more conditioned to label rights and wrongs, rather than delve into the nuanced grey area that exists in most circumstances.
The growing 'mindfulness movement,' encompassing yoga, meditation, counseling, and self-improvement is a positive sign for our psychological future in this country.

I'm sure I glazed over certain points in this response but hoping it will further the dialogue.

Culture is, I believe, the major factor in the police violence in the US. Specifically gun culture. Now, this isn't a dig at legal gun owners at all but legal ownership has made it incredibly easy for criminals to get weapons.

Another major driving factor was/is the war on drugs. The war on drugs has totally failed, not only has it failed but it just made everything exponentially worse. 46% of federal inmates are drug offenders. That's a staggering number if you think about it. Black Americans are significantly (5-7x) more likely to be charged with a higher level offense (sales vs simple possession) which leads to more prison time overall. That's just one of the many examples of how the system is broken.

[wood minis]

[QUOTE=Jopeal;16370896]
As a country we're significantly over-policing non-violent offenses and traffic violations, both of which only further the divide between police and civilians and both of which disproportionately affect impoverished and minority groups from a criminal & financial standpoint.

This fact of law enforcement generating revenue through traffic and parking violations definitely works against how law enforcement is perceived in my opinion. Maybe they are supposed to be self-funding their positions on the force, but this works against developing relationships within communities.

[jcardstore]

Our research shows that blacks comprise 62.7 percent and whites 36.7 percent of all drug offenders admitted to state prison, even though federal surveys and other data detailed in this report show clearly that this racial disparity bears scant relation to racial differences in drug offending. There are, for example, five times more white drug users than black. Relative to population, black men are admitted to state prison on drug charges at a rate that is 13.4 times greater than that of white men. In large part because of the extraordinary racial disparities in incarceration for drug offenses, blacks are incarcerated for all offenses at 8.2 times the rate of whites. One in every 20 black men over the age of 18 in the United States is in state or federal prison, compared to one in 180 white men.

Good article on the drug war and the effects it has had on black Americans.

https://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2...a/Rcedrg00.htm

[KhalDrogo]

Apparently only ~20% of NBA players are registered to vote. Didn’t realize the NBA was made up of 80% international players.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Apparently only ~20% of NBA players are registered to vote. Didn’t realize the NBA was made up of 80% international players.

Clear voter suppression

[OscarOne]

Originally Posted by Astros19

On another note, I can't help but wonder if the nasty sinus infection I'm currently fighting isn't from wearing a mask. 90 degree temps cause a lot of condensation which we all know is a breeding ground for bacteria.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

It's not. And you know it.

People like you are the problem.

[Pete Schweddy]

Originally Posted by jdandns

Like that time I pointed out "social distancing" had been a commonly used phrase for years after you swore up and down it was a newly minted term prompting you to run off and hide for a week instead of just admitting your mistake?

Nah, I wouldn't do that to you.

Some crazies will vote for Biden.
Some crazies will vote for Trump.
Very few racists will vote for Biden.
Nearly all racists will vote for Trump.

This does not mean voting for Trump makes someone racist, and I never said it did.

What about all the non white racists? There's plenty of them. They gonna be voting for Trump too?

[dodgerfanjohn]

Originally Posted by trixstar

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/20...-twitch-403843


Racism, sexism congregate on Trump's Twitch channels during RNC

Anyone citing internet postings as proof of anything is just wrong and clearly doesn’t understand troll.

The guy screaming racial stuff about blacks online is just as likely to be of whatever race including being black.

But lots of people don’t understand troll.

[dodgerfanjohn]

[QUOTE=wood minis;16371118]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

As a country we're significantly over-policing non-violent offenses and traffic violations, both of which only further the divide between police and civilians and both of which disproportionately affect impoverished and minority groups from a criminal & financial standpoint.

This fact of law enforcement generating revenue through traffic and parking violations definitely works against how law enforcement is perceived in my opinion. Maybe they are supposed to be self-funding their positions on the force, but this works against developing relationships within communities.

One of my suggestions after the George Floyd killings was to remove further investigation when someone is stopped for a traffic violation, short of a plain sight view matter. In other words, if a cop pulls you over for a broken brake light, all he can do is cite you for the brake light. He can’t question you on where your going, can’t assess what it means that you are sweating or acting nervous, etc. unless there is something illegal in plain view.

As pointed out this would disproportionately help low income people. I posted this several public places and was met with crickets. Which means the BLM supporters care only about the Disruptions they are creating, optics, and getting funding to whatever do nothing nonprofits they or their family members have a stake in, from weak kneed politicians.

[packman80]

Packers OL Billy Turner to police: "I would like to understand the rules and the guidelines that are in place for law enforcement when it comes to pulling someone over and subduing someone. Three grown men on one is an unfair advantage. There should be no reason to pulling a gun out."

Really? Cops should not try to outnumber a suspect?

[Corporal Lance]

Originally Posted by OscarOne

It's not. And you know it.

People like you are the problem.

The link you provided is absolute crap. It quotes two people, and not any peer-reviewed study. They express their opinions, and actually acknowledge a disease can be spread by an infected mask.

[trixstar]

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Trump is responsible for the viewer comment section now.

Where did anyone say this?

I honestly don’t expect this forum to get Twitch culture and how people communicate through Twitch but I thought the article was interesting. I’m sure Trump has no clue what goes on in his Twitch chat but I would think someone should be moderating the literal official channel for his campaign.

It’s really telling what things people just want to blow off instead of actually look at and add up all the little things that are “no big deal”

It’s fine if you don’t care. People do care though and it doesn’t mean it’s Donald Trumps fault directly. It’s pretty pathetic that it happens though and it’s even more pathetic that more people aren’t bothered by it.

[trixstar]

Originally Posted by xbignick

Lol...





Are people really running out of things to write about? This is every single channel on twitch.

People don't 'tweet' on twitch. Surprised a 28 year old woman wrote this and not a 68 year old man.

Over 100,000 people were in that channel watching the RNC. Again you may not care.

That’s part of the problem.

[Pete Schweddy]

Originally Posted by packman80

Packers OL Billy Turner to police: "I would like to understand the rules and the guidelines that are in place for law enforcement when it comes to pulling someone over and subduing someone. Three grown men on one is an unfair advantage. There should be no reason to pulling a gun out."

Really? Cops should not try to outnumber a suspect?

He's 6'5", 310lb. Does he not realize most people aren't as big and strong as him?

Years ago a buddy and I, both in the 230-250 range at the time, tried to handcuff another buddy who was probably 160-170. We couldn't do it. We probably could have if we wanted to hurt him, but we weren't gonna take it that far.

[Brobocop]

I was thinking about this and I'm sure I'll get my head ripped off but the situation the police find themselves in right now seems similar to the Catholic Church a decade or so ago. People are now being shown that not only are there bad apples but the bad apples do some truly bad things and the institutions they belong to cover up for them. Just like with the priests that sexually assaulted countless children over countless years, people are now being shown that certain officers truly are terrible at their job but aren't fired or really punished.

So in short, you are seeing people paint the whole profession with a broad brush. In my eyes, police forces across the nation are really going to have to do a lot of work in the media and in their communities to win these people back over. Doubling down and acting as if nothing they do is wrong isn't going to help. The idea of "one bad apple........" in law enforcement can end up with someone being killed or locked up for a long time. The church has lost millions of people that they may never get back, I think local police forces though can win their communities over if they put in the work.

[RedSoxFan28]

Originally Posted by packman80

Packers OL Billy Turner to police: "I would like to understand the rules and the guidelines that are in place for law enforcement when it comes to pulling someone over and subduing someone. Three grown men on one is an unfair advantage. There should be no reason to pulling a gun out."

Really? Cops should not try to outnumber a suspect?

Sounds more like 3 on 1 is already an enough of an advantage for the cops, they shouldnt need guns, in this case.

Originally Posted by Pete Schweddy

He's 6'5", 310lb. Does he not realize most people aren't as big and strong as him?

Years ago a buddy and I, both in the 230-250 range at the time, tried to handcuff another buddy who was probably 160-170. We couldn't do it. We probably could have if we wanted to hurt him, but we weren't gonna take it that far.

Glad the cops didnt want to hurt him, good thing Blake only almost died and is now paralyzed from the waist down.

[packman80]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I was thinking about this and I'm sure I'll get my head ripped off but the situation the police find themselves in right now seems similar to the Catholic Church a decade or so ago. People are now being shown that not only are there bad apples but the bad apples do some truly bad things and the institutions they belong to cover up for them. Just like with the priests that sexually assaulted countless children over countless years, people are now being shown that certain officers truly are terrible at their job but aren't fired or really punished.

So in short, you are seeing people paint the whole profession with a broad brush. In my eyes, police forces across the nation are really going to have to do a lot of work in the media and in their communities to win these people back over. Doubling down and acting as if nothing they do is wrong isn't going to help. The idea of "one bad apple........" in law enforcement can end up with someone being killed or locked up for a long time. The church has lost millions of people that they may never get back, I think local police forces though can win their communities over if they put in the work.

Thing is how can the police win esp the black communities over when for decades they have raised their kids saying don't trust the police don't talk to the police? If these communities won't work with police to foster a trusting relationship that goes both ways you can't expect the police to be able to fix things with them.

[packman80]

Originally Posted by RedSoxFan28

Sounds more like 3 on 1 is already an enough of an advantage for the cops, they shouldnt need guns, in this case.



Glad the cops didnt want to hurt him, good thing Blake only almost died and is now paralyzed from the waist down.

The cops told him get on the ground he refused he kept walking to his car. Should they just stand around with their hands in their pockets waiting to see if he got a weapon to harm them with? Guess what Blake gets on the ground as cops tell him too they will cuff him and put away their guns. Not hard to figure that out.