The Official Jayson Tatum Collectors Thread: Showoffs and Discussion...

[darscards35kd]

Yeah... the short-sightedness of some people in this hobby never ceases to amaze me. Because what a player is at age 22 is certainly what he will be for the rest of his career... lol

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Jdan67

Hahahah my man, you are so emotional and disconnected......literally making arguments for us. Tatum has the stats and improvements on a team comprised of WAY MORE TALENT. You just sound foolish when you saying Player X is 3 times the player of Tatum, Player Y is 2 times the player. FYI here's Giannis' Stats Y3 (rebs, ast, ppg). Giannis averaging a minute more per game. Why was Giannis so much more special than Tatum to develop in to what he is than Tatum is now?
7.7 4.3 16.9

Here's Tatums:
7.0 3.0 23.4

I'm not emotional. You are emotional, obviously you are enjoying trying to protect your Tatum investments. Since I am not emotional, I am guessing the only reason you think I am is because you are experiencing emotion because you cannot counter my argument once again you have provided no refutation to the facts outlined. You know I am right that he cannot defeat these players in direct competition and without MVP/DPOY and multiple chips, his cards will decline.

Here's Giannis current stats against Tatum's

PTS
29.5
5th
REB
13.6
2nd
AST
5.6
23rd
PER
31.94

Jayson Tatum
PTS
23.4
15th
REB
7.0
35th
AST
3.0
80th
PER
20.45
37th

Yes Giannis is 3x the player of Tatum. It is not close. What a silly argument. He's also vastly superior in just about every advanced stat out there from +/- to winshares and it isn't close. He's not in the conversation. He cannot compete with Luka or Giannis or any of the greats still in the league, he's a whole tier if not two well below them.

Name a player who has achieved back to back MVPs DPOY and put up generational points by age 25? Oh but you think he's bad because he didn't win a chip when your guy also didn't win a chip? Give me a break.

I'll bet you very strongly that by age 25, Tatum will not have achieved what Giannis has achieved by age 25. He will not have 2 MVPS and a DPOY. At best he will have 1 chip, best case scenario and he will never put up better numbers in his entire career than what Giannis did this season.

Tatum is not currently averaging anything close to a top 10 player in the NBA.

[thedylanceltics]

Originally Posted by Justin7

I'm not emotional. You are emotional, obviously you are enjoying trying to protect your Tatum investments. Since I am not emotional, I am guessing the only reason you think I am is because you are experiencing emotion because you cannot counter my argument once again you have provided no refutation to the facts outlined. You know I am right that he cannot defeat these players in direct competition and without MVP/DPOY and multiple chips, his cards will decline.

Here's Giannis current stats against Tatum's

PTS
29.5
5th
REB
13.6
2nd
AST
5.6
23rd
PER
31.94

Jayson Tatum
PTS
23.4
15th
REB
7.0
35th
AST
3.0
80th
PER
20.45
37th

Yes Giannis is 3x the player of Tatum. It is not close. What a silly argument. He's also vastly superior in just about every advanced stat out there from +/- to winshares and it isn't close. He's not in the conversation. He cannot compete with Luka or Giannis or any of the greats still in the league, he's a whole tier if not two well below them.

Name a player who has achieved back to back MVPs DPOY and put up generational points by age 25? Oh but you think he's bad because he didn't win a chip when your guy also didn't win a chip? Give me a break.

I'll bet you very strongly that by age 25, Tatum will not have achieved what Giannis has achieved by age 25. He will not have 2 MVPS and a DPOY. At best he will have 1 chip, best case scenario and he will never put up better numbers in his entire career than what Giannis did this season.

Tatum is not currently averaging anything close to a top 10 player in the NBA.

How does it feel to know your favorite team has lost twice to a player who you think sucks? I’m sure your not salty that the Sixers had the chance to get him but chose Fultz instead


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[Jdan67]

Originally Posted by Justin7

I'm not emotional. You are emotional, obviously you are enjoying trying to protect your Tatum investments. Since I am not emotional, I am guessing the only reason you think I am is because you are experiencing emotion because you cannot counter my argument once again you have provided no refutation to the facts outlined. You know I am right that he cannot defeat these players in direct competition and without MVP/DPOY and multiple chips, his cards will decline.

Here's Giannis current stats against Tatum's

PTS
29.5
5th
REB
13.6
2nd
AST
5.6
23rd
PER
31.94

Jayson Tatum
PTS
23.4
15th
REB
7.0
35th
AST
3.0
80th
PER
20.45
37th

Yes Giannis is 3x the player of Tatum. It is not close. What a silly argument. He's also vastly superior in just about every advanced stat out there from +/- to winshares and it isn't close. He's not in the conversation. He cannot compete with Luka or Giannis or any of the greats still in the league, he's a whole tier if not two well below them.

You still aren't grasping this are you? The reason Tatum's prices can be higher that you think they should be is because he is 22 and in his 3rd year of the league and is on a up and to the right trajectory as proven by his YoY stats and especially second half of the season stats. The curve of his potential is steeper than that of Giannis'. Stop comparing Giannis current stats to Tatum current stats. I AGREE GIANNIS IS CURRENTLY BETTER and very well may be better overall in the end. You are terrible ignorant and make too many assumption's in your statements. You know zero about my hobby interests. Literally none of the cards I own are 'investments' and Tatum is just a fraction of 1 percent of my collection worth if I were to ever care to calculate it.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by thedylanceltics

How does it feel to know your favorite team has lost twice to a player who you think sucks? I’m sure your not salty that the Sixers had the chance to get him but chose Fultz instead


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are strongly proving my point that there is no actual statistical defense of Tatum or anything proven to back it up. Cards will drop 40%. What you just brought up has literally nothing to do with the fact that Tatum is not close to being as good as the credit he gets, we aren't even talking about Philly.

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by Justin7

I'm not emotional. You are emotional, obviously you are enjoying trying to protect your Tatum investments. Since I am not emotional, I am guessing the only reason you think I am is because you are experiencing emotion because you cannot counter my argument once again you have provided no refutation to the facts outlined. You know I am right that he cannot defeat these players in direct competition and without MVP/DPOY and multiple chips, his cards will decline.

Here's Giannis current stats against Tatum's

PTS
29.5
5th
REB
13.6
2nd
AST
5.6
23rd
PER
31.94

Jayson Tatum
PTS
23.4
15th
REB
7.0
35th
AST
3.0
80th
PER
20.45
37th

Yes Giannis is 3x the player of Tatum. It is not close. What a silly argument. He's also vastly superior in just about every advanced stat out there from +/- to winshares and it isn't close. He's not in the conversation. He cannot compete with Luka or Giannis or any of the greats still in the league, he's a whole tier if not two well below them.

Name a player who has achieved back to back MVPs DPOY and put up generational points by age 25? Oh but you think he's bad because he didn't win a chip when your guy also didn't win a chip? Give me a break.

I'll bet you very strongly that by age 25, Tatum will not have achieved what Giannis has achieved by age 25. He will not have 2 MVPS and a DPOY. At best he will have 1 chip, best case scenario and he will never put up better numbers in his entire career than what Giannis did this season.

Tatum is not currently averaging anything close to a top 10 player in the NBA.

I believe JDan was asking to compare Tatum's Year 3 numbers vs. Giannis Year 3 numbers. Granted, I don't think Giannis had the same usage as Tatum in Y3 but comparing Y3 to Y3 is better than comparing Y3 Tatum to Y7 Giannis...

Of course right at this present time, Giannis is a back to back MVP just entering his prime while Tatum is just getting started.

Anyway, if we could all go back to Giannis Y3 (2016), I'm sure we would buy up whatever we could.

Tatum will likely not have the same career arc, but that's okay. Not everyone has to be Giannis/LeBron or bust.

[Jdan67]

Originally Posted by Justin7

You are strongly proving my point that there is no actual statistical defense of Tatum or anything proven to back it up. Cards will drop 40%. What you just brought up has literally nothing to do with the fact that Tatum is not close to being as good as the credit he gets, we aren't even talking about Philly.

You're sour, stop being so sour. Understand that hobby prices is almost all based on POTENTIAL. If it wasn't every HOF'er with accolades would outsell Zion, Ja even fricken Coby White. You keep arguing on today's stats and comparing a 6th year Giannis to a 3rd year Tatum. Tell me, is Ja overvalued, Zion? What about D Mitchell? Trae? Why is your argument only relevant to Tatum and not more widespread?

[thedylanceltics]

Originally Posted by Justin7

You are strongly proving my point that there is no actual statistical defense of Tatum or anything proven to back it up. Cards will drop 40%. What you just brought up has literally nothing to do with the fact that Tatum is not close to being as good as the credit he gets, we aren't even talking about Philly.

He is 22, he led his team to the ECF again, he averaged 25 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists. He showed great improvement in passing considering he rarely got more than 5 assists before this playoff run. After Giannis and Luka, he is the next best young player in the NBA.


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[Jdan67]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

I believe JDan was asking to compare Tatum's Year 3 numbers vs. Giannis Year 3 numbers. Granted, I don't think Giannis had the same usage as Tatum in Y3 but comparing Y3 to Y3 is better than comparing Y3 Tatum to Y7 Giannis...

Of course right at this present time, Giannis is a back to back MVP just entering his prime while Tatum is just getting started.

Anyway, if we could all go back to Giannis Y3 (2016), I'm sure we would buy up whatever we could.

Tatum will likely not have the same career arc, but that's okay. Not everyone has to be Giannis/LeBron or bust.

Exactly. And to answer your question, Giannis averaged a minute more per game in his Y3 than Tatum did.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

I believe JDan was asking to compare Tatum's Year 3 numbers vs. Giannis Year 3 numbers. Granted, I don't think Giannis had the same usage as Tatum in Y3 but comparing Y3 to Y3 is better than comparing Y3 Tatum to Y7 Giannis...

Of course right at this present time, Giannis is a back to back MVP just entering his prime while Tatum is just getting started.

Anyway, if we could all go back to Giannis Y3 (2016), I'm sure we would buy up whatever we could.

Tatum will likely not have the same career arc, but that's okay. Not everyone has to be Giannis/LeBron or bust.

Yes indeed this is my point, I do not find his carrier arc to be heading in this superstar trajectory and that’s okay. He will be a multiple time all star for years to come and probably have an excellent career. He plays a very useful position. He won’t command these superstar prices long term but for actual collectors that shouldn’t bother them.

[Jdan67]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Yes indeed this is my point, I do not find his carrier arc to be heading in this superstar trajectory and that’s okay. He will be a multiple time all star for years to come and probably have an excellent career. He plays a very useful position. He won’t command these superstar prices long term but for actual collectors that shouldn’t bother them.

Notice every sentence is an attempt at stating something factual about a future point in time. His 'Carrier Arc', 'Will be...', 'excellent career'....'wont command price' I can smell your ignorance through my laptop screen.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Jdan67

Notice every sentence is an attempt at stating something factual about a future point in time. His 'Carrier Arc', 'Will be...', 'excellent career'....'wont command price' I can smell your ignorance through my laptop screen.

Hey man on a more serious note you keep using caps lock and screaming and getting wildly emotional, I think you’re taking someone pointing out the flaws in your guy too personally. No need to get all worked up. I’ve pointed out both current comparisons as well as future ones and you get emotional either way, it’s really not a debate at this point just you kinda yelling like a toddler.

[Jdan67]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Hey man on a more serious note you keep using caps lock and screaming and getting wildly emotional, I think you’re taking someone pointing out the flaws in your guy too personally. No need to get all worked up. I’ve pointed out both current comparisons as well as future ones and you get emotional either way, it’s really not a debate at this point just you kinda yelling like a toddler.

Again with the future comparisons. Please tell me how you are capable of comparing the future? Would love to know. Still yet to comment on Y3 comparisons of both players. Oh, does that hurt your argument?

[imbluestreak23]

Safe to assume that all cards of playoff losers will drop 40% from here on. Too much speculation money in the game now. Sad to see

[Jdan67]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Safe to assume that all cards of playoff losers will drop 40% from here on. Too much speculation money in the game now. Sad to see

Problem with the current state of the hobby, it's been converted to people mostly trying to make a quick flip. It's not 40% across the board, but I believe the low end should certainly experience that (prizm base, all that nonsense). Luka autos and RPA's are hitting ATH's in some cases. Pick your spots, be a collector.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Jdan67

Again with the future comparisons. Please tell me how you are capable of comparing the future? Would love to know. Still yet to comment on Y3 comparisons of both players. Oh, does that hurt your argument?

No that does not hurt my argument and I already explained to you why that is not an apples to apples comparison, there is already an answer to your question. I can answer every question you brought up. For example, Mitchell and Ja don't command prices near what Tatum's are, so the reason he is overvalued relative to them since you asked is because of where prices are. You are kinda proving my point that you're in an emotionally volatile place right now. I did not make a future comparison in the post you quoted when you said this, that doesn't even make any sense. I love debating with people that can take it and give it, I don't mind crap talking but I think you're not in a healthy place or something since you keep repeating yourself. Keep in mind that for me, basketball is a place to talk trash without getting all emotional. Have a good one.

[Jdan67]

Originally Posted by Justin7

No that does not hurt my argument and I already explained to you why that is not an apples to apples comparison, there is already an answer to your question. I can answer every question you brought up. For example, Mitchell and Ja don't command prices near what Tatum's are, so the reason he is overvalued relative to them since you asked is because of where prices are. You are kinda proving my point that you're in an emotionally volatile place right now. I love debating with people that can take it and give it, I don't mind crap talking but I think you're not in a healthy place or something since you keep repeating yourself. Keep in mind that for me, basketball is a place to talk trash without getting all emotional. Have a good one.

You're so off it's insane- Your tagline in your profile literally says %$%*$% the celtics, yet you're not emotional about this? Ok dude. Please elaborate how Y3 Giannis numbers are so wildly better than Y3 Tatum's such that you can immediately write off Tatum's potential? I'm willing to change my stance...You absolutely have not addressed that one.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Jdan67

You're so off it's insane- Your tagline in your profile literally says %$%*$% the celtics, yet you're not emotional about this? Ok dude. Please elaborate how Y3 Giannis numbers are so wildly better than Y3 Tatum's such that you can immediately write off Tatum's potential? I'm willing to change my stance...You absolutely have not addressed that one.

I already explained to you that is not apples to apples like you claimed it was. And I’ve made plenty of points you never addressed as well. At the end of the day if you think age is what matters then congratulations! You’ve set Giannis age 25 as your benchmark given your current argument. I’m totally willing to say that 1. Giannis is better than Tatum now. 2. Tatum will not achieve what Giannis did by age 25. Tatum won’t have a superstar career this is my overall point, I cede the fact Tatum is better Y3 than Giannis was y3 which is a very random thing to cherry pick since Giannis came in totally differently from Tatum as he’s a physical specimen who had to learn the game. Not an apples to apples comparison but I agree, if Tatum prices today were where Giannis prices were in 2016, that’s be a great buy. The issue is they’re about 1200x.

And yes I hate the Celtics. Basketball is not emotional unless it’s like a great person winning a chip or something. I don’t feel the emotion of anger or hate towards teams I dislike on a literal level, I make fun of them for fun. See the difference? You’re really taking this way too seriously. I’m making basketball criticisms about a player who is overvalued, that’s not personal.

[valmak]

There's no point in arguing on the internet. If you think somebody is wrong about their views let them be. Hopefully other people listen and the price will be impacted so you can pick up the cards at a discount.

[Jdan67]

Originally Posted by Justin7

I already explained to you that is not apples to apples like you claimed it was. And I’ve made plenty of points you never addressed as well. At the end of the day if you think age is what matters then congratulations! You’ve set Giannis age 25 as your benchmark given your current argument. I’m totally willing to say that 1. Giannis is better than Tatum now. 2. Tatum will not achieve what Giannis did by age 25. Tatum won’t have a superstar career this is my overall point, I cede the fact Tatum is better Y3 than Giannis was y3 which is a very random thing to cherry pick since Giannis came in totally differently from Tatum as he’s a physical specimen who had to learn the game. Not an apples to apples comparison but I agree, if Tatum prices today were where Giannis prices were in 2016, that’s be a great buy. The issue is they’re about 1200x.

And yes I hate the Celtics. Basketball is not emotional unless it’s like a great person winning a chip or something. I don’t feel the emotion of anger or hate towards teams I dislike on a literal level, I make fun of them for fun. See the difference? You’re really taking this way too seriously. I’m making basketball criticisms about a player who is overvalued, that’s not personal.

I'm just using Giannis because that was the name you were using in prior posts. He's back to back MVP- If I can defend Tatum at 22 to Giannis, then I think that gives his hobby potential hope. The Hobby today is much different than the Hobby last year, let alone Giannis in Y3. Way more mainstream now and there is a new 'normal' for prices. There's more than enough room for 1 or 2 players to own the entire hobby market, whilst everyone else is overvalued. That's the part I think you're wrong about. If Tatum continues to get bounced from playoffs/plateau, then you may very well be correct. 'Til then, let's wait and see.

[Jdan67]

Originally Posted by valmak

There's no point in arguing on the internet. If you think somebody is wrong about their views let them be. Hopefully other people listen and the price will be impacted so you can pick up the cards at a discount.

I mean, there is a point. It's fun and entertaining- It's also nice to see if you sway someone's perspective. I may learn something knew, as may the other person. It's completely ok to disagree and go at it a little bit. Nothing is getting personal. But I agree, if they don't agree perhaps it creates opportunity.

[BAHoopla]

Anyone have a PSA 10 for trade?

[KhalDrogo]

Just the base. Holding on to these for a long while.

[BAHoopla]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Just the base. Holding on to these for a long while.

Could ya maybe trade me one?

[cboog3105]

love me some disco