Darius Garland

[dashcol]

I have just gotten myself back into basketball this year after 20+ years away from watching it, and it is a steep learning curve just to get back into the game.

I have been reading a lot of different perspectives and thoughts on the future of the game and it’s players.

One player I have not read a lot about is Darius Garland. For I guy who was 5th in the draft, I am surprised at how little speculation there is on him good or bad.

The Cavs camp is happy with how he is performing and supposedly he is improving during the bubble break.

He ended the season 2nd in rookie assists, over 700 total points, 12.3 PPG, .400+ FG%, .350+ 3pt%, and 3.9 assists. That seems pretty good to me, or am I missing some fatal flaw in his game?

I know his knee injury plagues him, and there are concerns about that, but it appears to me that he is overcoming it.

To be upfront, this is not a pump thread. I think I own one Illusions RC, because I am trying to keep 1 RC of every player.

I also am not looking for his card prices, or expectations on that. I am solely looking for a discussion on his abilities on the court, and if he could be a big part of the Cavs in the future.

[jcardstore]

Wouldn't be concerned about the knee injury. Meniscus tears realistically mean nothing especially since it was a 1 time thing and he's so young.

His problem is that he's very small and needs to be paired with a long 2. I think he and KPJ would work fine if the Cavs drafted a long defensive minded wing. The Sexton/Garland combo ain't gonna work so 1 of them is gonna have to come off the bench. Probably Garland.

He's a better shooter than the stats say and he's a really good playmaker. Def a guy who can run the offense. It's probably unlikely that he ever becomes a star player but I think he could be a high level starter on the right team

[YeahBuddy]

Kinda hard to discuss if you dont want to tie it back to cards and the hobby. Without doing so, its simply yeah he should end up a good player. superstar? maybe but who knows ... would need some big year 2 & 3 years.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Wouldn't be concerned about the knee injury. Meniscus tears realistically mean nothing especially since it was a 1 time thing and he's so young.

His problem is that he's very small and needs to be paired with a long 2. I think he and KPJ would work fine if the Cavs drafted a long defensive minded wing. The Sexton/Garland combo ain't gonna work so 1 of them is gonna have to come off the bench. Probably Garland.

He's a better shooter than the stats say and he's a really good playmaker. Def a guy who can run the offense. It's probably unlikely that he ever becomes a star player but I think he could be a high level starter on the right team

My concern with the knee injury is experience based. Yes they can be recovered quickly, but I have had a medial meniscus tear, and three surgeries later, I can’t run or play any sports really. So, they can be lingering injuries depending on the size and location of the tear, etc. I would love a DR to weigh in on that.

I can see him and Sexton not being a desirable pair, is Garland the better choice? Sexton seems to have a lot fans out there, but I will admit I have not looked into him at all, I will have to do that.

Originally Posted by YeahBuddy

Kinda hard to discuss if you dont want to tie it back to cards and the hobby. Without doing so, its simply yeah he should end up a good player. superstar? maybe but who knows ... would need some big year 2 & 3 years.

Why would it be hard to discuss? Do you not talk sports with friends/co-workers who don’t collect? What I was looking for is not whether he will be a superstar, but a discussion on his potential skills and whether his knee problems will be a long lasting concern.
Personally, based on watching highlights and my reading I think he is underperforming right now. I believe he can become a pretty dominator 3 pt shooter, and shows flashes of being a great playmaker, but is not consistent enough to keep his 30+ minutes a game if they get competitive.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by dashcol

My concern with the knee injury is experience based. Yes they can be recovered quickly, but I have had a medial meniscus tear, and three surgeries later, I can’t run or play any sports really. So, they can be lingering injuries depending on the size and location of the tear, etc. I would love a DR to weigh in on that.

I can see him and Sexton not being a desirable pair, is Garland the better choice? Sexton seems to have a lot fans out there, but I will admit I have not looked into him at all, I will have to do that.



Why would it be hard to discuss? Do you not talk sports with friends/co-workers who don’t collect? What I was looking for is not whether he will be a superstar, but a discussion on his potential skills and whether his knee problems will be a long lasting concern.
Personally, based on watching highlights and my reading I think he is underperforming right now. I believe he can become a pretty dominator 3 pt shooter, and shows flashes of being a great playmaker, but is not consistent enough to keep his 30+ minutes a game if they get competitive.

I think Garland is a better player to build a team around as the lead guard. Sexton isn't a great playmaker and he's more of a score 1st guy. I personally think Sextons role should be bench scorer.

Unless you give more ball handling and playmaking duties to KPJ

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I think Garland is a better player to build a team around as the lead guard. Sexton isn't a great playmaker and he's more of a score 1st guy. I personally think Sextons role should be bench scorer.

Unless you give more ball handling and playmaking duties to KPJ

Thanks for the take. I am definitely a bigger fan of KPJ than Garland, but Garland intrigues me more as there is more unknown about him.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by dashcol

Thanks for the take. I am definitely a bigger fan of KPJ than Garland, but Garland intrigues me more as there is more unknown about him.

I think Garland is an average NBA starter with potential to be a high level starter if he's surrounded by the right players. Not super exciting lol

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I think Garland is an average NBA starter with potential to be a high level starter if he's surrounded by the right players. Not super exciting lol

I think he's ideally suited to be a top guy off the bench. I really like him. But i think his best usage would be as the 6th or 7th guy. I fully expect him to have a long career.

[Vinny1984]

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2019.html

Filter by VORP and you’ll have your answer.

[gowizards0]

Garland and Sexton both need the ball in their hands, not gonna work out

[yankeesfan24]

Garland should have some upside in his cards if he performs well given he has no Panini autos and is a UD exclusive.

[Mormi08]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I have just gotten myself back into basketball this year after 20+ years away from watching it, and it is a steep learning curve just to get back into the game.

I have been reading a lot of different perspectives and thoughts on the future of the game and it’s players.

One player I have not read a lot about is Darius Garland. For I guy who was 5th in the draft, I am surprised at how little speculation there is on him good or bad.

The Cavs camp is happy with how he is performing and supposedly he is improving during the bubble break.

He ended the season 2nd in rookie assists, over 700 total points, 12.3 PPG, .400+ FG%, .350+ 3pt%, and 3.9 assists. That seems pretty good to me, or am I missing some fatal flaw in his game?

I know his knee injury plagues him, and there are concerns about that, but it appears to me that he is overcoming it.

To be upfront, this is not a pump thread. I think I own one Illusions RC, because I am trying to keep 1 RC of every player.

I also am not looking for his card prices, or expectations on that. I am solely looking for a discussion on his abilities on the court, and if he could be a big part of the Cavs in the future.

Glad to see a Garland thread.....I have been accumulating him since the beginning of the pandemic. I have around 20 psa 10 silvers and plenty of other cards from him. He's got a quick release, good three point shot, great ball handling and I think has great potential. He didn't have a great rookie season but I can see him coming back with a good second year. Obviously won't compare him to lillard but he does remind me of him....

also.... get rid of sexton or get garland into a better situation @cavs

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by Mormi08

Glad to see a Garland thread.....I have been accumulating him since the beginning of the pandemic. I have around 20 psa 10 silvers and plenty of other cards from him. He's got a quick release, good three point shot, great ball handling and I think has great potential. He didn't have a great rookie season but I can see him coming back with a good second year. Obviously won't compare him to lillard but he does remind me of him....

also.... get rid of sexton or get garland into a better situation @cavs

Reading what Garland says about himself, he also thinks he underperformed last year, but thinks he is going to have a big year next year. We will see, but how good of a season can he have if he doesn’t get the minutes, or a good partner on the court?

[Comix Guy]

Originally Posted by Vinny1984

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2019.html

Filter by VORP and you’ll have your answer.

[LakeCityDepot]

He's a sell in my opinion. That Cavs team won't be in the playoffs for the foreseeable future and he isn't likely to be a star.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by Vinny1984

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2019.html

Filter by VORP and you’ll have your answer.

I get VORP is value over replacement player, but can someone give me the idiot’s guide to VORP?

[Comix Guy]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I get VORP is value over replacement player, but can someone give me the idiot’s guide to VORP?

If they are in the + you would want to keep them on the floor. - keep them on the bench, presumably.

[Comix Guy]

Originally Posted by Vinny1984

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2019.html

Filter by VORP and you’ll have your answer.

To add to this. Do the same for Sexton.

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2018.html

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Comix Guy

To add to this. Do the same for Sexton.

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2018.html

VORP is not a good measure of talent, especially in young guards.

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by Comix Guy

To add to this. Do the same for Sexton.



https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2018.html

Originally Posted by jcardstore

VORP is not a good measure of talent, especially in young guards.

also like to point out that if you do this, you need to go all the way. look at the 2018 vs 2019 splits. it goes up for nearly every player I clicked on from that class

[Comix Guy]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

VORP is not a good measure of talent, especially in young guards.

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

also like to point out that if you do this, you need to go all the way. look at the 2018 vs 2019 splits. it goes up for nearly every player I clicked on from that class

The best measure is watching the games. But obviously you can't do that for every team.
Any better suggestions for stats? The games I watched of these two, the stats align just fine.

[phdbeckett]

By this measure, Heild is better than Trae, and Simmons is 11.+?

[Comix Guy]

Originally Posted by phdbeckett

By this measure, Heild is better than Trae, and Simmons is 11.+?

It's cumulative, like WAR in baseball. Luke is an 8.8 after 2 years. Hield has 4 years vs. Trae 2 years.


Basketball doesn't have something directly like WAR in baseball. VROP is one metric used as is Win Shares.
I like RAPTOR myself: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...layer-ratings/

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Comix Guy

Basketball doesn't have something directly like WAR in baseball. VROP is one metric used as is Win Shares.
I like RAPTOR myself: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...layer-ratings/

Still not a good indicator of inefficient young guards on bad teams.

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by Comix Guy

The best measure is watching the games. But obviously you can't do that for every team.
Any better suggestions for stats? The games I watched of these two, the stats align just fine.

Originally Posted by phdbeckett

By this measure, Heild is better than Trae, and Simmons is 11.+?

lol thanks for making me look a little closer at this. VORP is a CUMULATIVE stat, so those 2016 guys have been accumulating points for 4 years vs the young guys having just one or two. I thought it would be an average or something. anyway I don't know much about VORP, but I'm sure I'll go down a rabbithole sometime tonight since it's tickling my brain now.

interesting thing looking at VORP trends for players... Simmons is actually going down year over year, Jaylen Brown being almost a zero doesn't match my eye test, almost every 2018 RC went up, and Andrew Wiggins being a cumulative 0.2 after 7 years in the league completely tracks.