Kylian Mbappe

[fadster]

Originally Posted by yanksfan1

From a collectors standpoint, do you prefer the team kit or the national team kit when both are in the same set?

Personally I prefer club, players don't usually get international call-ups until they've hit a certain level. If their rookie card has them in international colours it means someone dropped the ball the previous season in picking the checklist. It's a bit like having an all-star game rookie card in Topps baseball, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with it, it just looks odd.

[YayNJ]

Originally Posted by fadster

Personally I prefer club, players don't usually get international call-ups until they've hit a certain level. If their rookie card has them in international colours it means someone dropped the ball the previous season in picking the checklist. It's a bit like having an all-star game rookie card in Topps baseball, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with it, it just looks odd.

Quite a lot of players play for their countries before their club, especially if it's a player from a smaller nation at a large club.

Wales for example - you can get into national team recognition by just doing well in a Premier League u-23 side.

Sancho played for England after something like 20 games (?) for Dortmund during a phase where England were capping numerous young players to tie them to England, or to create some continuity with the then extremely successful England Youth teams who won the Under-17 and Under-20 Youth World Cup and the Toulon Tournament. Lewis Cook is another example, though he's gone on to not fulfil his potential at Bournemouth.

[fadster]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

Quite a lot of players play for their countries before their club, especially if it's a player from a smaller nation at a large club.

Wales for example - you can get into national team recognition by just doing well in a Premier League u-23 side.

Sancho played for England after something like 20 games (?) for Dortmund during a phase where England were capping numerous young players to tie them to England, or to create some continuity with the then extremely successful England Youth teams who won the Under-17 and Under-20 Youth World Cup and the Toulon Tournament. Lewis Cook is another example, though he's gone on to not fulfil his potential at Bournemouth.

It's the exception rather than the rule, there are very few notable sole international kit rookie issues out there. The most high profile exceptions tend to be players from leagues not covered bu the usual issues, eg Modric, Nedved and Schmeichel

[alessandrosam]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

Quite a lot of players play for their countries before their club, especially if it's a player from a smaller nation at a large club.

Wales for example - you can get into national team recognition by just doing well in a Premier League u-23 side.

Sancho played for England after something like 20 games (?) for Dortmund during a phase where England were capping numerous young players to tie them to England, or to create some continuity with the then extremely successful England Youth teams who won the Under-17 and Under-20 Youth World Cup and the Toulon Tournament. Lewis Cook is another example, though he's gone on to not fulfil his potential at Bournemouth.

Old Ronaldo won the world cup at 18, same with Henry and Trezeguet.

Ronaldo was on a losing Portugal at euro 2004 before the age of 20.
Messi was 19 at World Cup 2006 starting every game.
And since the world Cup and international tourneys are some of the most viewed events in all of TV, not just sports
I feel the country kit in some cases is better, especially from a North American standpoint (a la Mark McGwire) but also because this country values that first jersey. And since in Mbappes case that first jersey isn't on the card when its PSG, his France jersey could be considered exactly that. It's his first Jersey at the international stage. As well players Mbappe and Sancho will not reach the high level of stardom a CR7 or Messi has without transfering to a massive club like United, Madrid, Barca, Juve.
That way of thinking could be
Putting more value on the Mbappes select card bc it is a picture of one of his first call ups. Also when the big transfer happens. The fans of the next team would rather have the card that doesn't sport the colors of a rival. Which could also give a big bump to Sancho optic cards, especially if he goes to Man U.

But as I've mentioned earlier go with your gut.
No one knows what card will be the most sought after. Especially when it comes to inserts.
Case in point Jordan Metal Universe or Lebron TC insert.
Both of which were unwanted for decades and in value bins.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[yanksfan1]

Thank you everyone for you insight. I think what confused me on some was when I saw the topps chrome and donruss having different years than the same design from baseball. For example, the 2017-18 topps chrome soccer has the 2018 baseball design and same for the 2018-19 chrome soccer having the 2019 baseball design.

I picked up a couple cards to start off my soccer collection, 2 Mbappe Optic France cards and a Sancho base donruss rated rookie

[fadster]

Originally Posted by yanksfan1

Thank you everyone for you insight. I think what confused me on some was when I saw the topps chrome and donruss having different years than the same design from baseball. For example, the 2017-18 topps chrome soccer has the 2018 baseball design and same for the 2018-19 chrome soccer having the 2019 baseball design.

I picked up a couple cards to start off my soccer collection, 2 Mbappe Optic France cards and a Sancho base donruss rated rookie

Nice, welcome to the world of soccer collecting! The design recycling is a little confusing, TC Bundesliga uses the previous year TC Baseball design whilst the TC Champions League uses the current design.

[Anthony K]

I go with the Prizm WC but that's just preference, as I generally don't like to collect Topps Chrome. Prizm should have RC it, would have been way better and like the donruss ones

[Enzo]

For Sancho I think people sleep on his 2018/19 Panini Treble Rookie card, has the same seasons jersey on as his topps chrome and also features the RC logo, seems to be less common to find for sale than the topps card though

[YayNJ]

Originally Posted by Enzo

For Sancho I think people sleep on his 2018/19 Panini Treble Rookie card, has the same seasons jersey on as his topps chrome and also features the RC logo, seems to be less common to find for sale than the topps card though

It's not very nice.

"Panini Premiere" in big letters at the top is garish, and it's in a font the designer found on a free fonts CD from 2003.

[yanksfan1]

How do you all view the Pulisic market?

[phi435]

Originally Posted by yanksfan1

How do you all view the Pulisic market?

for rookies or in general?
for rookies it's the 16-17 donruss debuts or 16-17 select for me. then there are the others in a lower tier of which i prefer revolution.
in general...it's hot as a firecracker but i'd love see what would happen if the us mens team were ever decent.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by yanksfan1

How do you all view the Pulisic market?

He is commanding impressive prices. And it's not surprising.

[bobbycass]

Originally Posted by mcwildcats

For the Foot 2016, is it pretty much pointless to buy the sticker packs? It looks like you can see through these and so I imagine it would be easy for a seller to know if an Mbappe is likely to be inside the pack. Is that right? So, just assume you would get cherry-picked packs if you bought individually. Is a sealed box the way to go on these if wanted to buy in unopened format?

I have bought 25 loose packs from France. 20 from one guy, I was gonna hold onto them and sell later but after a few months I decided to open them. It was quite clear that he had used a lamp to dry the glue, open them and search them. Was too late to get any cash back on it.

A few months ago I was buying a load of random packs off another French guy. As he had 5 packs of the 2016 I decided Id bid on them. Got them for 15 dollars and low and behold, I actually found an Mbappe inside. Chances of that happening with just five packs, has to be 100/1 or more.

But there is a chance.

[bobbycass]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

Quite a lot of players play for their countries before their club, especially if it's a player from a smaller nation at a large club.

Wales for example - you can get into national team recognition by just doing well in a Premier League u-23 side.

Sancho played for England after something like 20 games (?) for Dortmund during a phase where England were capping numerous young players to tie them to England, or to create some continuity with the then extremely successful England Youth teams who won the Under-17 and Under-20 Youth World Cup and the Toulon Tournament. Lewis Cook is another example, though he's gone on to not fulfil his potential at Bournemouth.

Thats because Wales arent a particularly strong team. Troy Parrot got a cap for Ireland before he played a league game for Spurs, not because hes an amazing player(maybe he will become one, probably not though), but because Ireland doesnt have any outstanding players in that position.

[YayNJ]

Originally Posted by bobbycass

Thats because Wales arent a particularly strong team. Troy Parrot got a cap for Ireland before he played a league game for Spurs, not because hes an amazing player(maybe he will become one, probably not though), but because Ireland doesnt have any outstanding players in that position.

Yes, that's the point I was making.

[bobbycass]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

Yes, that's the point I was making.

Quite a lot of players, especially if its a small club. And then used Jadon Sancho as an example.

Nah, man, its very few players that start out that way and very rarely anyone of note, if ever at all.

[FAM]

Can someone explain to me why the Prizm is seen as a "rookie" but not the Donruss or Optic (the one with the French kit)? Since they were the same year, I would image they should be treated the same in that regard (with the Prizm in much more demand, of course). Now, is the 2018 year a rookie year for Mbappe? As noted, the market will decide. But I see the Donruss similar to the entry level paper cards we see in other sports.

[bobbycass]

Originally Posted by FAM

Can someone explain to me why the Prizm is seen as a "rookie" but not the Donruss or Optic (the one with the French kit)? Since they were the same year, I would image they should be treated the same in that regard (with the Prizm in much more demand, of course). Now, is the 2018 year a rookie year for Mbappe? As noted, the market will decide. But I see the Donruss similar to the entry level paper cards we see in other sports.

Mbappe has a rookie. Its from 2016. He is in a Monaco shirt. Its sticker though. But that is his rookie card/sticker. I think the market sees it like that too as they are still going for over 6000 dollars each.

[brewtown107]

Originally Posted by FAM

Can someone explain to me why the Prizm is seen as a "rookie" but not the Donruss or Optic (the one with the French kit)? Since they were the same year, I would image they should be treated the same in that regard (with the Prizm in much more demand, of course). Now, is the 2018 year a rookie year for Mbappe? As noted, the market will decide. But I see the Donruss similar to the entry level paper cards we see in other sports.

And now for the correct answer.

Soccer "seasons" are like basketball seasons, where they cross from the end of one calendar year into the next year, e.g., 2017-18 and 2018-19.

Mbappe's rookie cards are in the 2017-18 products--the main ones being Topps Chrome and Select. Donruss/Optic was a 2018-19 product, so clearly not a rookie card, even if it's a first Donruss/ first Optic card.

Prizm was released in 2018 to coincide with the 2018 World Cup, so it doesn't fit the usual 2017-18/ 2018-19 framework. At first, it wasn't considered a rookie card, as it clearly came after the 2017-18 cards, but eventually folks started calling it a rookie card, presumably considering it a late release in the 2017-18 card year. I think this has a lot to do with the popularity of Prizm, and also the fact that his greatest success thus far has been for the French team in that World Cup. People just decided to consider that one a rookie card, and it was so. It's pretty hard to definitively say that a summer release is *not* part of the 2017-18 card year, released at the tail end, as opposed to being part of the 2018-19 card year, released at the beginning.

The bottom line is that soccer rookie card designations are kind of malleable given the way releases come out all over the place in the year, but not quite malleable enough to bring a 2018-19 release into the rookie card fold when the player had multiple releases in 2017-18.

As for the 2016 Foot sticker, it definitely has a place at the table as Mbappe's first sticker, but a lot of card collectors don't collect stickers. The Foot is Mbappe's rookie sticker, but the 2017-18 cards are Mbappe's rookie cards.

[Raj3sh]

Originally Posted by Enzo

For Sancho I think people sleep on his 2018/19 Panini Treble Rookie card, has the same seasons jersey on as his topps chrome and also features the RC logo, seems to be less common to find for sale than the topps card though

Mbappe also has the treble card, its again from 2018. I like the look of them too. Plain design with the player picture popping out of the card.

[bobbycass]

Originally Posted by brewtown107

As for the 2016 Foot sticker, it definitely has a place at the table as Mbappe's first sticker, but a lot of card collectors don't collect stickers. The Foot is Mbappe's rookie sticker, but the 2017-18 cards are Mbappe's rookie cards.

Ill never understand this thinking at all. With soccer, for years, all that you could get were panini stickers. Almost every soccer super star you can name his first "card" will be a sticker.

And if youre just sticking it in a case and not peeling it off and putting it on your school books what difference does it make?

I grew up collecting panini so thats gonna skew my thinking. But surely, if youre into collecting soccer rookies you will have to collect stickers.

[fadster]

Originally Posted by bobbycass

Ill never understand this thinking at all. With soccer, for years, all that you could get were panini stickers. Almost every soccer super star you can name his first "card" will be a sticker.

And if youre just sticking it in a case and not peeling it off and putting it on your school books what difference does it make?

I grew up collecting panini so thats gonna skew my thinking. But surely, if youre into collecting soccer rookies you will have to collect stickers.

I think the taboo surrounding them is disappearing with people collecting more 80's and 90's stars. Once collectors started accepting those, eg the Foot Zidane, Merlin Beckham, Campeonato Ronaldinho, and the Voetbal Ronaldo, there's no logical reason to not accept the Foot Mbappe. The way I think of them is a bit like Topps flagship baseball, they're there for every season with a deep checklist. If your guy gets in to something else great, if not you've got that to fall back on.

[FAM]

Originally Posted by brewtown107

And now for the correct answer.

Soccer "seasons" are like basketball seasons, where they cross from the end of one calendar year into the next year, e.g., 2017-18 and 2018-19.

Mbappe's rookie cards are in the 2017-18 products--the main ones being Topps Chrome and Select. Donruss/Optic was a 2018-19 product, so clearly not a rookie card, even if it's a first Donruss/ first Optic card.

Prizm was released in 2018 to coincide with the 2018 World Cup, so it doesn't fit the usual 2017-18/ 2018-19 framework. At first, it wasn't considered a rookie card, as it clearly came after the 2017-18 cards, but eventually folks started calling it a rookie card, presumably considering it a late release in the 2017-18 card year. I think this has a lot to do with the popularity of Prizm, and also the fact that his greatest success thus far has been for the French team in that World Cup. People just decided to consider that one a rookie card, and it was so. It's pretty hard to definitively say that a summer release is *not* part of the 2017-18 card year, released at the tail end, as opposed to being part of the 2018-19 card year, released at the beginning.

The bottom line is that soccer rookie card designations are kind of malleable given the way releases come out all over the place in the year, but not quite malleable enough to bring a 2018-19 release into the rookie card fold when the player had multiple releases in 2017-18.

As for the 2016 Foot sticker, it definitely has a place at the table as Mbappe's first sticker, but a lot of card collectors don't collect stickers. The Foot is Mbappe's rookie sticker, but the 2017-18 cards are Mbappe's rookie cards.

Thank you.

My own counterpoint to this is that in 10 or 20 years, I am not sure people are going to think of Optic or Donruss as a 2018-2019 product as much as this was Mbappe's first France kit cards (along with Prizm, of course). So while Prizm is a World Cup set, and has the brand value of being a Prizm (and thus could be worth more), I think those priced out of those may look to the Donruss/Optic as a Mbappe France "rookie" card because it was the first France year card, not to mention that France won the World Cup.

Where I am also undecided is on Select. On the one hand it is (if I am not mistaken) the first 2017-2018 set release, but will buyers care that he is in a PSG jersey and not Monaco? I don't know. However, I would still consider it a rookie card. In addition, as noted above, the parallels are, in my opinion, absolutely amazing (disclosure: I own one of these cards)

Then you also have the Father's Day (disclosure: I own one of these cards as well), which is 2018, France kit, and as mentioned, the only one with a RC logo on the card.

[FAM]

Originally Posted by Enzo

For Sancho I think people sleep on his 2018/19 Panini Treble Rookie card, has the same seasons jersey on as his topps chrome and also features the RC logo, seems to be less common to find for sale than the topps card though

There still are not that many rookie cards for soccer players. So, in the future, if demand continues to increase, all of these could be sought after cards.

[brewtown107]

There's a fair amount of OCD--diagnosed and otherwise--in the world of sportscard collecting. People desire a certain amount of congruence, or even uniformity. Look at the Messi/Ronaldo "post a pair" thread. We like to see a card of each of them from the same issue. Congruence. Uniformity.

For those of us in the USA who grew up collecting cards, cards are what we want. Stickers are almost like cards, and PSA/BGS will slab and grade them. They will do if there's absolutely nothing else out there, like for the old timey guys.

Heck--people will settle for a *disc* for a Maradona "rookie" issue. But I think most of us can agree that a traditional rectangular card--or a sticker that looks like a card--of Maradona would be much preferred by the collecting community if one had been released at that same time, or thereabouts. Because we desire congruence. Uniformity.

Now there are annual card releases from known card companies in the familiar brands (e.g., Topps Chrome, Prizm, Select, etc.). So we can wait for actual cards, which again, are what we want. Because they fit well with our baseball cards and (American) football cards and basketball cards, etc. Congruence. Uniformity.

Yes, the stickers are out there still, and they are often the earlier issues. Personally, I look at them like minor league team releases of American baseball players. Pre-rookie issues that might be desirable for completist collectors of a player, but not *the* issue to get if you're looking to assemble a broad collection of different players across different sports.

To be fair, it's much harder to achieve anything that resembles uniformity in soccer--especially as you go back before there were annual card releases for the Euro leagues, which is obviously not very long ago at all. But American collectors coming into this *now* and going forward from other sports are going to be drawn by default to the format (cards) and the brands (Topps, Select, Prizm, Donruss, Optic) they are familiar with. Panini Foot stickers are not part of that familiar list. Neither are Adrenalyn or Match Attax game cards, which are also largely ignored by collectors.

For that matter, Panini has issued sticker sets for MLB baseball and NBA basketball over the years here in the USA (not sure if annually) and collectors here have become accustomed to completely ignoring them. Even in the past year, when store shelves have been cleared of anything halfway decent for months at a time, you could still find a nearly full box of NBA stickers just sitting there, lonely and waiting like an ugly puppy at the pound. I passed on them myself, many times. So ignoring Panini sticker releases is an ingrained habit here.

Will this change over time? Maybe. People here resisted Panini basketball products, until we didn't. More specifically, the baseball card community ignored unlicensed Panini releases, until we didn't. Things can change.

However, the card brands that are big in the USA--Topps Chrome, Prizm, Select, etc.--are making greater and greater inroads overseas in places like Europe and Asia, with new releases now coming every year. So it seems *more* likely that those will continue to be the go-to brands worldwide for card collectors. They're the brands people seem to want most--not just in the USA, but in other places across the world.