BUYER BEWARE of Fake High-End BGS Slabs From Probstein: Luka and Zion Prizm

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Has BGS made an announcement on this issue yet? My confidence is waning in their service.

It is unfathomable that they refuse to comment or address this particular issue.

[cashby]

Gotta lot of feeling these types of fakes are flooded on IG and razz feeds for sale lol

[KhalDrogo]

All the listings have been ended.

Would be nice for Probstein to forward the consignee's information to BGS.

[RogerGodahell]

I've read this thread and still have a hard time spotting them. You guys have some good eyes. For a minute i was wondering if they were actually fake or BGS got cheap and started ordering supplies/material from cheaper sources and maybe that's why they look so all over the place. That was just a thought i had but probably not. Either way they're pretty good fakes cause i have a hard time seeing them.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

That’s easy to fake as well. Look at how many fraudulent MTG cards are out there. I wonder if you can create a watermark or laser etching? I think my Ray-ban sunglasses have a small laser etching on the side which I’m guessing is how you can tell a real from a fake. Honestly though, with how much technology is advancing, I’m not sure any method is 100% guaranteed to prevent this. Sad that grading can’t even be trusted. Feels like them my way to guarantee your card is legit is to get it out of a pack or box yourself.

That's a good idea. They need to do something like put a reflective hologram, something you can only see if you tilt them in the light, a bar code, strip in them like in money, or use a different flip with special ink like they do on money or something. A bar code that you could actually scan like PSA and or a tilted reflective watermark on the case would probably be a good start.

[PowellSportCard]

Originally Posted by Totalpackage

Is there any other way than the missing dot of patent number to spot a fake slab?

Its actually pretty easy. If you grab a real one and a fake one and put them side by side, just look at the spacing between the serial number and the subgrades. There is a huge difference between the two and is easier to see when you have a real one in hand to compare with. The spacing is way off from top to bottom as well.

[PowellSportCard]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

All the listings have been ended.

Would be nice for Probstein to forward the consignee's information to BGS.

I would also forward to the police as well. This is Fraud, plain and simple. They are fraudulently creating slabs to gain a higher value on items they are selling. When money and services are involved, especially high dollar figures, I don't see any reason why criminal charges couldn't or wouldn't be approved. Until someone does jail time for this and sets a precedent to deter others, the problem will only get worse.

[GatorPie]

Okay, so if I understand this, the flips show legitimate serial numbers. Hence, if they are fake, there are at least two of the same SN cards floating around. However, all we've heard to this point is ONE instance where two cards had the same number, and BGS said it was a mistake in the system and they fixed it.

If this was such a widespread problem, wouldn't there be dozens of instances of duplicate serial numbers reported by now?

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by PowellSportCard

Its actually pretty easy. If you grab a real one and a fake one and put them side by side, just look at the spacing between the serial number and the subgrades. There is a huge difference between the two and is easier to see when you have a real one in hand to compare with. The spacing is way off from top to bottom as well.

First time for me as well hearing about these fakes (although I don't deal in anything graded so it's not an area I pay much attention to), but this has been educational.

I'll add, the real ones have very precise alignment. I can see right away how the letters and numbers line up very crisp and there are defined columns. The fakes seem to have errant numbers/letters that peak out into the columns or are crooked, and make the whole slab look out of alignment.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by GatorPie

Okay, so if I understand this, the flips show legitimate serial numbers. Hence, if they are fake, there are at least two of the same SN cards floating around. However, all we've heard to this point is ONE instance where two cards had the same number, and BGS said it was a mistake in the system and they fixed it.

If this was such a widespread problem, wouldn't there be dozens of instances of duplicate serial numbers reported by now?

Link please.

[KhalDrogo]

9 months!

[GatorPie]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Link please.

Read through the other thread that the OP linked. Still only aware of one instance.

I find it pretty hilarious the PSA people can throw stones after the extensive trimmed cards scandal currently going on. Should I post the dozens of links of those for you?

Nothing I’ve seen so far leads me to believe this fake slab thing is even remotely an extensive problem.

So with BGS, you might get a fake slab. With PSA, you may get a trimmed card. Sounds like they both are wart covered companies to me.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by GatorPie

Read through the other thread that the OP linked. Still only aware of one instance.

I find it pretty hilarious the PSA people can throw stones after the extensive trimmed cards scandal currently going on. Should I post the dozens of links of those for you?

Nothing I’ve seen so far leads me to believe this fake slab thing is even remotely an extensive problem.

So with BGS, you might get a fake slab. With PSA, you may get a trimmed card. Sounds like they both are wart covered companies to me.

Since you’re the one making things up, I think you should provide the link. Because here’s Jerome Murray’s response, which very clearly implies the slab is fake.

[KhalDrogo]

I believe the reason we have not identified countless examples yet is that it looks like these fake slabs were being sold locally in China, and now secondary sales are happening in the US. And the slabs are close enough to the real thing that they easily pass as legitimate if you aren’t looking for it. It took until someone was able to locate the matching LeBron before anybody realized what was going on.

[GatorPie]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I believe the reason we have not identified countless examples yet is that it looks like these fake slabs were being sold locally in China, and now secondary sales are happening in the US. And the slabs are close enough to the real thing that they easily pass as legitimate if you aren’t looking for it. It took until someone was able to locate the matching LeBron before anybody realized what was going on.

Thanks, this constitutes an answer to my question.

[LTLurker]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

every single card should come with some sort of blockchain on the reverse + holo + QR code

it's the only way fraud can be beaten on stuff like trading cards.

I'm not sure why it's not happening already. As well as helping cut down on fraud it could also store information about the card - year, parallel type etc.

This is really the best way. And considering Panini is already doing “blockchain” cards, what’s the reasoning for Beckett/PSA to not.


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[thenashcollecto]

So fake slabs with bgs or trimmed/altered cards from psa? Is that the summary? Thanks to those doing amazing detective work.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by thenashcollecto

So fake slabs with bgs or trimmed/altered cards from psa? Is that the summary? Thanks to those doing amazing detective work.

Gotta do your research these days. Especially when it comes to high priced cards. Or pull them yourself and you know for sure.

Thankfully we've got some dedicated people on these boards who've done most of the heavy lifting. The good thing is this kind of stuff can be cleaned up if we can get some cooperation from the grading companies. I've been advocating for years that PSA, BGS whoever.... needs to start an image database. Not just a pop report but a picture/scan of the card along with it. I really think that would go a long ways towards cleaning up the altered card part of the hobby.

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Since you’re the one making things up, I think you should provide the link. Because here’s Jerome Murray’s response, which very clearly implies the slab is fake.

I also got a little longer (but similar) response when I emailed him.

Got a longer response from Jeromy via email:

"We are aware of the situation and have already taken actions to protect our brand/services. If you look closely, there are differences with these cases/labels but please be sure to buy wisely. It is disappointing (but not surprising) what some people will do to deceive collectors but we are handling this matter quickly and as we see fit. Our goal is to protect our customers so rest assured, BGS will continue to offer the most trusted services/products in the industry"

I emailed back to see if he would confirm which slab was fake and never received a response.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Deadshot

I emailed back to see if he would confirm which slab was fake and never received a response.

Shocker. Maybe send him these new slabs for comment?

[Inferno]

I really don't know what people are expecting Beckett to do about this. They aren't the ones making these fake slabs

Even if they came out with a new slab design and flip label tomorrow it won't change the millions of cards already slabbed in this faked design. The brand of the BGS slab as we know it has been around for like 20 years and is almost too engrained in the hobby to be completely revamped on a whim.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I really don't know what people are expecting Beckett to do about this. They aren't the ones making these fake slabs

Even if they came out with a new slab design and flip label tomorrow it won't change the millions of cards already slabbed in this faked design. The brand of the BGS slab as we know it has been around for like 20 years and is almost too engrained in the hobby to be completely revamped on a whim.

Well they gotta do something because ignoring it is only going to kill them as they lose even more of the market share to PSA.

Maybe they just don't care because business is so good right now but that will bite them in the ass eventually. And it's a terrible look imo.

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I really don't know what people are expecting Beckett to do about this. They aren't the ones making these fake slabs

Even if they came out with a new slab design and flip label tomorrow it won't change the millions of cards already slabbed in this faked design. The brand of the BGS slab as we know it has been around for like 20 years and is almost too engrained in the hobby to be completely revamped on a whim.

PSA has changed their design how many times? And it will be a money maker anyway as the die hards will pay to reslab.

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[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I really don't know what people are expecting Beckett to do about this. They aren't the ones making these fake slabs

Even if they came out with a new slab design and flip label tomorrow it won't change the millions of cards already slabbed in this faked design. The brand of the BGS slab as we know it has been around for like 20 years and is almost too engrained in the hobby to be completely revamped on a whim.

Uh, for starters they could acknowledge it with something more than a tweet. Then they can let everyone know how long they've known about it. Then they could provide a guide for how to identify a fake. Then they could create a more secure slab.

[rohara99]

Has Beckett said they're NOT making new flips? I'd wager they have something in the works.

Also does anyone believe that PSA's newest flip can't be knocked off? LOL. I'd also wager that knockoff PSA flips are in the works... and shocker! They can knock off holograms.