The Erling Haaland Thread

[Ianhatcher]

Originally Posted by YayNJ

I mean, it doesn't get much more simpler than this :

If he's wearing a Dortmund kit, it isn't a rookie.

That's not true for me as he played for both Salzburg and Dortmund in the same 19/20 season. It doesn't mean the Salzburg cards shouldn't be significant but in my view everything from 19/20 is a rookie.

[Ianhatcher]

Originally Posted by IndySportsCards

Soccer is a different beast than typical US based sports like Baseball, Football. Many times it's stickers that are deemed valuable rookies that are only available in Spain, or Italy, or in Magazines, etc.. US collectors may hover closer to cards, but internationally many still collect stickers and view them as true rookies. Cards are expanding into Europe though and may start to drive European collectors towards them, and the Topps Now program often offers MANY cards to that market via their website we can't even get here on Topps.com - It just adds to the confusion and makes collecting soccer more difficult for us all.

But as other have stated, collect what you like, like what you collect.

I said collect what you want to collect.

I'm not discounting the significance or value of Topps Now I just said it's not for me. I know how different people view the hobby and the constant argument with rookies. My problem is when people try to tell me how it's going to be. Just have your opinion on the matter and move on but don't talk to me in absolutes which is why I am very careful to say this is how I view it but you do you.

[Raj3sh]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

People need to not mistake the significance of the NOW 178 Haaland RC:

(September 17th, 2019...Available for EVERYONE in the world to buy on September 18th, 2019. Topps would have sold an unlimited amount of these if people were paying attention)



Just look at what that moment captures:

From the bold "Red Bull" on his chest, (would be a cool nickname), teammates celebrating in the background, opponent distraught, Haaland's arms out wide letting the world know, "I've arrived!!!".

Can someone show me a more significant card than this and tell me why?

The topps now Jude bellingham release have close to 14k copies. This one is limited to 178

Extremely rare.

[Ianhatcher]

I think people really throw around the term "rare" these days. 178 of something is not rare to me.

Cards that are pop 1 or maybe /5 arguably to /10 are rare. This is just shortprinted.

[YayNJ]

Originally Posted by Ianhatcher

That's not true for me as he played for both Salzburg and Dortmund in the same 19/20 season. It doesn't mean the Salzburg cards shouldn't be significant but in my view everything from 19/20 is a rookie.

Salzburg is RC, Dortmund is RY.

[Elemin8]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

Ungraded versions will skyrocket too.

I don't know if its not attainable as people say as there are people putting it online for 50 K when it sold for under 3k a few months ago.Not sure what the real value on this card is. I like the card image as you mentioned. I personally don't like the caption on the front of the card regardless it talking about the game it came from. I do think print run is the main driver for this card as I don't know if people would have the same feeling of this card if it had a print run of 5k. The long and short of it is if you have this card you want it to be the card and people will pump the prices till the market accepts it being that value. As I mentioned in another post if Topps NOW is considered the way that RC are going then a simple online card with any image will hold weight more than a released product as long if it is released first. I think is a total money grab from Topps who are leveraging all kinds of junk online to attract people. Look at the lost RC and Topps 2020. I think Jude Bellingham has an online card before one in a product so will that be bigger than his Topps UEFA Chrome?
Online is not available to everyone like people mentioned there are some barriers with online purchasing. You need to have an account and old enough to have a credit card which differs than walking in a store and buying a pack of cards. Topps Sapphire is an online exclusive but the fact that hobby stores can buy it from the disti and put it into hobby stores also clouds that issue.
I am just playing devil's advocate cause I don't know what is what either.

[Raj3sh]

Originally Posted by Ianhatcher

I think people really throw around the term "rare" these days. 178 of something is not rare to me.

Cards that are pop 1 or maybe /5 arguably to /10 are rare. This is just shortprinted.

its rare for a rookie card. There are no parallels here.

You can compare it with mbappe's rookie " Panini Foot 2016" or the Messi/Ronaldo rookies which were manufactured in large numbers.

The /1 , /5 , /10 are all manufactured rarity if we consider with the rarity of vintage cards/stickers.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by Ianhatcher

There is a difference between buying the exact exclusive printed card online and buying a exclusive boxed product where you have a chance to get certain cards.

If people put value on it fine but I don't. It spits in the face of everything that is fun about sport cards which is ripping packs for cards. Either you or someone else pulled the card form a pack is what I care about not I was the first to add this card to my cart. I don't care about digital cards either but that doesn't mean they don't have value to some people.

These are printed cards of moments that you can buy at the click of a button. Not a fan of it and they are just promo cards for me but you do you.

Yes, we heard the exact same thing with online only exclusives early on. The exact same thing. "I will never accept these, (Sapphire for instance), if you can't buy them at local card shops or retail shops".

While you might not ever change, all kinds of others are already changing. Again, all we have to do is take a peak at climbing print runs to gauge growing popularity.

I'm just trying to share trends with the forum. NOW cards are definitely trending up, in both price and popularity. Soccer cards appear to be having the largest growth right now.

[Elemin8]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

Yes, we heard the exact same thing with online only exclusives early on. The exact same thing. "I will never accept these, (Sapphire for instance), if you can't buy them at local card shops or retail shops".

While you might not ever change, all kinds of others are already changing. Again, all we have to do is take a peak at climbing print runs to gauge growing popularity.

I'm just trying to share trends with the forum. NOW cards are definitely trending up, in both price and popularity. Soccer cards appear to be having the largest growth right now.

I buy lots of Topps now it allows me to buy some cool pieces. I got my son his first Messi Auto through it. I think the question is whether an online exclusive is a RC. Both Topps Now and Sapphire fall into that category. The only difference “I think” as I don’t know for sure is that Sapphire is a product that goes online first to the masses and some to distributors. Topps now is a print based on demand product and the fact that Haaland print run was so low speaks to the fact people were not sold on Topps now being what it was now as Haaland was not a secret.
The statement of taking a peak at climbing print runs to gauge popularity is the exact reason Topps 2020 became a disaster as everyone was chasing the Trout Emsry and now the rest can’t be given away. There are always going to be an outlier and this Haaland card will be one of those. I hope so.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by Elemin8

I don't know if its not attainable as people say as there are people putting it online for 50 K when it sold for under 3k a few months ago.Not sure what the real value on this card is. I like the card image as you mentioned. I personally don't like the caption on the front of the card regardless it talking about the game it came from. I do think print run is the main driver for this card as I don't know if people would have the same feeling of this card if it had a print run of 5k. The long and short of it is if you have this card you want it to be the card and people will pump the prices till the market accepts it being that value. As I mentioned in another post if Topps NOW is considered the way that RC are going then a simple online card with any image will hold weight more than a released product as long if it is released first. I think is a total money grab from Topps who are leveraging all kinds of junk online to attract people. Look at the lost RC and Topps 2020. I think Jude Bellingham has an online card before one in a product so will that be bigger than his Topps UEFA Chrome?
Online is not available to everyone like people mentioned there are some barriers with online purchasing. You need to have an account and old enough to have a credit card which differs than walking in a store and buying a pack of cards. Topps Sapphire is an online exclusive but the fact that hobby stores can buy it from the disti and put it into hobby stores also clouds that issue.
I am just playing devil's advocate cause I don't know what is what either.

I agree, but there are way less barriers to online ordering than having to go to a physical shop/store.

I like hearing the other side, so I have never minded devil's advocate. I feel like that's what I'm doing when I'm talking positively about the NOW brand. The majority currently thinks it will never be accepted. So I illustrate how it's already becoming more and more accepted.

[Mitch]

It's great that he's got so many options.

I am more and more valuing On Demand/Now base less in favour of 'pack pulled', but I also love the ease of it and like Elemin said I'm a fan of some of the autos I've been able to get. We'll see what the market feels re On Demand down the years - there's silly PR's for some guys, but still relatively low ones (in comparison) for other very good players every month it seems.

Re Sapphire, despite what I've said above, because you still have to open the pack/box it comes in, I don't feel quite the same way, but it's an interesting comparison.

For me, I like Salzburg cards and stickers as the go to. I have Bundesliga stickers and if I had the spare cash I'd buy Finest personally.

If I was buying to hold for future though, I'd hedge my bets between the Bundesliga sticker for 'purists' and the Sapphire for it's wider appeal. With the sticker we still need to see if any of the three printing versions becomes more popular than another also.

The Salzburg wonderkid Topps card is an interesting one. Can a card be 'too rare'? For example, Futera released a Xavi Simons card that will have about 50 total after parallels. If he goes on to be something really special, will that card be 'the one' or because for most it just won't be obtainable, will it be overlooked? I think it's the same here. When i look at that Wonderkid Now it's an incredible card - low pop, super imagery - but I'm not coveting it, because frankly I know I can never have it. Save a lottery win.

On a side note, the Bundesliga team sticker that he features in (one of three panels) sold for $121 in a PSA 10 this weekend. I don't know what to make of that!

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by Elemin8

I buy lots of Topps now it allows me to buy some cool pieces. I got my son his first Messi Auto through it. I think the question is whether an online exclusive is a RC. Both Topps Now and Sapphire fall into that category. The only difference “I think” as I don’t know for sure is that Sapphire is a product that goes online first to the masses and some to distributors. Topps now is a print based on demand product and the fact that Haaland print run was so low speaks to the fact people were not sold on Topps now being what it was now as Haaland was not a secret.
The statement of taking a peak at climbing print runs to gauge popularity is the exact reason Topps 2020 became a disaster as everyone was chasing the Trout Emsry and now the rest can’t be given away. There are always going to be an outlier and this Haaland card will be one of those. I hope so.

Bite your tongue!

I'm pretty sure you and I agree for the most part. However, there are many cards of the 400 P2020 product that are worth more, some substantially more, than direct pricing. It's only been a "disaster" if you were a part of the greed in the middle.

[dream34]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

Yes, we heard the exact same thing with online only exclusives early on. The exact same thing. "I will never accept these, (Sapphire for instance), if you can't buy them at local card shops or retail shops".

While you might not ever change, all kinds of others are already changing. Again, all we have to do is take a peak at climbing print runs to gauge growing popularity.

I'm just trying to share trends with the forum. NOW cards are definitely trending up, in both price and popularity. Soccer cards appear to be having the largest growth right now.

Wheeler, I was the first to start recommending the Acuna Sapphire if you remember and although there was some push back, it wasn’t really because of the “distribution” method. It was actually his latest released 2018 card after all other cards had been released. Some just had trouble understanding the significance of how important having a Topps Chrome RC card would be and couldn’t understand why it would ever be important.

Comparing Topps Now to Sapphire is a bit of a stretch for so many reasons, including the “chase” factor as even with Acuna you had to buy 7 boxes just to get one. The Sapphire Acuna is what it is for a lot of collectible reasons. It just made perfect sense. I think for Haaland it’s going to be his Sapphire for so many reasons.

Congrats on the Now purchase! Absolutely amazing. And they should definitely stay above all his other cards price wise just because of the PR.

[YayNJ]

Interestingly enough, if you go far back enough I remember when the argument against Haaland's Topps Crystal card was that it wasn't available enough and hard to get in the USA.

Weird because given the argument given about his Now Wonderkid, surely that gives the Crystal even more legitimacy. Or as I expect, do w only apply rules when it suits a certain demographic?

[Mitch]

Sorry, double post.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by Mitch

It's great that he's got so many options.

I am more and more valuing On Demand/Now base less in favour of 'pack pulled', but I also love the ease of it and like Elemin said I'm a fan of some of the autos I've been able to get. We'll see what the market feels re On Demand down the years - there's silly PR's for some guys, but still relatively low ones (in comparison) for other very good players every month it seems.

Re Sapphire, despite what I've said above, because you still have to open the pack/box it comes in, I don't feel quite the same way, but it's an interesting comparison.

For me, I like Salzburg cards and stickers as the go to. I have Bundesliga stickers and if I had the spare cash I'd buy Finest personally.

If I was buying to hold for future though, I'd hedge my bets between the Bundesliga sticker for 'purists' and the Sapphire for it's wider appeal. With the sticker we still need to see if any of the three printing versions becomes more popular than another also.

The Salzburg wonderkid Topps card is an interesting one. Can a card be 'too rare'? For example, Futera released a Xavi Simons card that will have about 50 total after parallels. If he goes on to be something really special, will that card be 'the one' or because for most it just won't be obtainable, will it be overlooked? I think it's the same here. When i look at that Wonderkid Now it's an incredible card - low pop, super imagery - but I'm not coveting it, because frankly I know I can never have it. Save a lottery win.

On a side note, the Bundesliga team sticker that he features in (one of three panels) sold for $121 in a PSA 10 this weekend. I don't know what to make of that!



I do think

Yes, I think so...to an extent.

But then we have to look at the unobtainable vintage baseball cards. Take the Honus Wagner for instance. The price is ridiculously high because it's almost unobtainable.

[Mitch]

I was thinking about that too. Is rarity from time different to rarity from population? In how we treat it?

Also, is it true that the releases the Wagner were in were literally dumped in the river? Hence there being so few?

[Raj3sh]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I was thinking about that too. Is rarity from time different to rarity from population? In how we treat it?

Also, is it true that the releases the Wagner were in were literally dumped in the river? Hence there being so few?

Rarity from time is the real thing, rest all are manufactured rarity.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I was thinking about that too. Is rarity from time different to rarity from population? In how we treat it?

Also, is it true that the releases the Wagner were in were literally dumped in the river? Hence there being so few?

Mantle rookies were dumped in the river.

Wagner cards had to be removed because they were cigarette cards, and Honus didn't want his likeness on the cards promoting smoking.

[FarmchairQB]

Originally Posted by Dizz86

-how can be topps now CL (wonder kid) /178 considered as 'lesser league', when it is 'Champions league set'. (stop being retarded)
-some people act like (first pack pulled cards are the ones..). I don't see this logic in any of Pele's, Cruyff's, Figo, Beckham's,... true rookies.
-Sapphire is not a rookie. Understandable, that Topps wnat it to be rookie season card, and also PSA wants that, so people would send it to them and they can earn money. Many cards are mislabeled, and even there was some critical mass at the begining, those cards are now not being so popular, as more and more people learns the truth. (Messi Traditions, Beckham Raven,...

Not many knows, that Champions league will change its format in 2023.
THere will be 8 teams groups it will mean not 6 games in group stage, but 14. (CL games also on weekends). Playoff will be the same as now. This simply gives Haland another 8 CL matches each year to improve his scoring record. At least 4 of those added 8 games will be against weaker teams.
At the end of his career he will surpass Messi and Ronaldo in CL goals scored.

My point was that Dortmund is a more recognizable team in a more recognizable league compared FC Salzburg, and that matters a lot to some collectors in terms of value. That seems like a fairly obvious statement to me, but feel free to disagree.

That's a good point about the CL format affecting stats/values over time. I haven't thought much about that, but it would really benefit a guy like Haaland, who would seemingly make it there every year and also NOT have exposure to Euro and World Cup in the same way as some other players of similar talent.

I think part of what makes soccer in general and Haaland in particular so interesting from a hobby perspective is this varied landscape. There are so many leagues and teams, and therefore so many card lines, which makes it hard to compare to the NBA, NHL, NFL, etc. So people can collect what they like, place their bets, etc. This thread alone has been really illuminating for me.

[FarmchairQB]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I was thinking about that too. Is rarity from time different to rarity from population? In how we treat it?

Also, is it true that the releases the Wagner were in were literally dumped in the river? Hence there being so few?

I've always defined rarity (at least in sports card collecting) as availability relative to demand...which is makes Jordan's 86 fleer more rare than the home made 1/1 Jordan card my daughter drew last week

That makes Haaland's 2019 Topps Now card super interesting. The print run is obviously low. But what will demand look like over time?

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by FarmchairQB

This thread alone has been really illuminating for me.

Me too! And it's not even 24 hours old yet.

I feel the best is yet to come.

[Raj3sh]

Originally Posted by FarmchairQB

My point was that Dortmund is a more recognizable team in a more recognizable league compared FC Salzburg, and that matters a lot to some collectors in terms of value. That seems like a fairly obvious statement to me, but feel free to disagree.

I have mentioned this earlier, but ronaldos rookie is from the portugese league, and its the most valueable card of his.

[peepswaxpacks]

Topps Bundesliga is the best looking rookie IMO. I like the Finest as well, but they both were ACTUALLY released in 2019 unlike the other BS Topps product grifting a phony RC logo on a card released two years later. We all know the truth here. HA!

[FarmchairQB]

Originally Posted by Raj3sh

I have mentioned this earlier, but ronaldos rookie is from the portugese league, and its the most valueable card of his.

Yes, and I actually agree with you that Haaland will likely follow the same path.

But I'm not 100% certain. Because if this thread is any indication, a lot of people consider a lot of things when it comes to soccer rookie cards and their valuations.