2021 BBHOF finalists

[mrb842]

https://www.thescore.com/s/17168594

I don't follow womens hoops closely enough so I'll leave that for others.

To me it's Pierce and Bosh and no one else comes close. Webber and Hardaway were never perennial all stars or guys who could take a team consistently to late may. Wright is still in the middle of his career. Hope the raptors fans are able to make it.

[Tallboy]

So for me with the NBA players:

In:
1. Paul Pierce - one of the great Celtics, Finals MVP
2. Ben Wallace - the iconic phase of those plucky Pistons, plus 4-time DPOY
3. Chris Bosh - did enough he gets in pretty cleanly for me

Iffy:
4. Marques Johnson - I think would have been in a long time ago if not for the off-court stuff.
5. Chris Webber - Lots of narrative reasons to put him in, I happen to think he was quite overrated.
6. Tim Hardaway - Key thing for me is how much we value influence on the game. His UTEP Two-Step was key to the development of the modern killer crossover.
7. Michael Cooper - I like that he's mentioned, as I think he's very underrated, but I have trouble putting him up there with these other guys.

Others:

Rick Adelman - yes, I think he should be in. What he did with both Portland & Sacramento is significant.

Bill Russell as a coach - I don't think so. The problem is that his success as a coach came as a player-coach when he was the star player on his team.

Yolanda Griffith - I think so. I don't have a clear dividing line for women's players, but she seems like she's elite enough at first glance.

Lauren Jackson - yes, absolute lock.

Jay Wright - yup, he's entered the pantheon of all-timers as college coaches

Don't know the other coaches.

[Jasondr91]

Marianne Stanley is a friend of mine. I had known her for years without realizing she was NCAA women's royalty. Her resume is nuts. Professionally she's done it all. It was embarrassing to realize the lady I spoke with for years was so decorated in basketball.

[mrb842]

Originally Posted by Tallboy

So for me with the NBA players:

In:
1. Paul Pierce - one of the great Celtics, Finals MVP
2. Ben Wallace - the iconic phase of those plucky Pistons, plus 4-time DPOY
3. Chris Bosh - did enough he gets in pretty cleanly for me

Iffy:
4. Marques Johnson - I think would have been in a long time ago if not for the off-court stuff.
5. Chris Webber - Lots of narrative reasons to put him in, I happen to think he was quite overrated.
6. Tim Hardaway - Key thing for me is how much we value influence on the game. His UTEP Two-Step was key to the development of the modern killer crossover.
7. Michael Cooper - I like that he's mentioned, as I think he's very underrated, but I have trouble putting him up there with these other guys.

Others:

Rick Adelman - yes, I think he should be in. What he did with both Portland & Sacramento is significant.

Bill Russell as a coach - I don't think so. The problem is that his success as a coach came as a player-coach when he was the star player on his team.

Yolanda Griffith - I think so. I don't have a clear dividing line for women's players, but she seems like she's elite enough at first glance.

Lauren Jackson - yes, absolute lock.

Jay Wright - yup, he's entered the pantheon of all-timers as college coaches

Don't know the other coaches.

you sound like you know your basketball.

[Pathora]

I would say the class includes:

Pierce
Bosh
Wallace
Griffith
Lauren Jackson
Jay Wright

Don't know after that.

[DluA]

I was just asking some people if Chauncey Billups was a lock for the HOF in the next 5-10 years? I personally think Mr. Big Shot is more deserving than Bosch, Wallace, and Hardaway... and I LOVE me some Killa Crossover, Run TMC...

[Lee42]

Lauren Jackson is a lock! Will be very well deserved!

[Tallboy]

Originally Posted by mrb842

you sound like you know your basketball.

Why thank you mrb!

Feel free to ask me to elaborate on something if you have a further question.

[Tallboy]

Originally Posted by DluA

I was just asking some people if Chauncey Billups was a lock for the HOF in the next 5-10 years? I personally think Mr. Big Shot is more deserving than Bosch, Wallace, and Hardaway... and I LOVE me some Killa Crossover, Run TMC...

I think both Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups need to be in the Hall from those Pistons teams.

(I also think Rasheed Wallace did enough to get in the Hall, but his attitude may permanently keep him out.)

[bruin805]

I really would love it if Marques Johnson made it in. He didn't have the longevity that most HOFers have, but he still has career averages of 20 points and 7 rebounds over an 11 year career. Plus he had a great college career (1975 NCAA championship, 1977 Wooden Award winner).

I think a good comp for him is Grant Hill, but without the back end of the career as a supporting player. Both had the great college careers for storied programs. Both came out of the gate as rookies averaging close to 20 ppg and then had multiple All-NBA appearances early in their careers. Marques made 1st team, 2nd team, and 2nd team in his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons. Hill made 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd in his 2nd through 6th seasons. Both played that "point forward" type of role.

[Jasondr91]

Originally Posted by DluA

I was just asking some people if Chauncey Billups was a lock for the HOF in the next 5-10 years? I personally think Mr. Big Shot is more deserving than Bosch, Wallace, and Hardaway... and I LOVE me some Killa Crossover, Run TMC...

Wow, Mr. Big Shot certainly deserves his place. He jumped around with teams, but was a great player.

[49ersSF]

Paul Pierce
Chris Webber
Tim Hardaway

[DluA]

Originally Posted by Tallboy

I think both Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups need to be in the Hall from those Pistons teams.

(I also think Rasheed Wallace did enough to get in the Hall, but his attitude may permanently keep him out.)

Originally Posted by Jasondr91

Wow, Mr. Big Shot certainly deserves his place. He jumped around with teams, but was a great player.

I'm from Colorado, and he's THE best basketball icon to ever come from this state so I'm naturally biased. Watched him play live in HS, followed him at CU, and then of course watched him while with the Pistons & Nuggets...

[PelicanFly]

The world is a strange place if Ben Wallace enters the HOF ahead of Billups, Webber, and Hardaway.

[Tallboy]

Originally Posted by PelicanFly

The world is a strange place if Ben Wallace enters the HOF ahead of Billups, Webber, and Hardaway.

Is it? They call it the "Hall of Fame". Why? Because it's about storytelling.

Ben Wallace came undrafted from an HBCU and clawed his way not to just be an all-star but to become the foundation, leader, and avatar for the last truly blue collar team to win a title, taking down the ultimate superteam who proved to be a bunch of individuals who could not coalesce into something greater.

Also, since this is a card forum, I'll note that in '04-05, Ben Wallace was chosen by a couple of sets to be the #1 card, and to clearly have a nice showcase with the picture and design.

Then there's the matter that he has 4 DPOYs, which is as much as anyone in history. (Granted Russell would own that if DPOYs had been around in his day.)

Adding Wallace to the Hall tells a story that needs telling.

Are the other figures in question so important? I really don't think so.

I'd say of the group Webber has the argument because of being on the Fab Five, but it would surely help if the most memorable thing he ever did there wasn't to have a brainfart at a moment when a star is supposed to show savvy.

[dasiegel]

With the way basketball loosely lets in HOFers, there is no way Webber shouldn't be in by now. Had a ten+ year run basically avg 20 and 10 and was the best passing PF in the league. Every tea he went to improved. He was the #1 draft pick after an amazing college career and basically Shaq and Kobe away from several finals trips. It's odd he's not in at this point. Who you taking, Mo Cheeks or Chris Webber? Calvin Murphy or Chris Webber? Time to let him in.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Tallboy

Is it? They call it the "Hall of Fame". Why? Because it's about storytelling.

Ben Wallace came undrafted from an HBCU and clawed his way not to just be an all-star but to become the foundation, leader, and avatar for the last truly blue collar team to win a title, taking down the ultimate superteam who proved to be a bunch of individuals who could not coalesce into something greater.

Also, since this is a card forum, I'll note that in '04-05, Ben Wallace was chosen by a couple of sets to be the #1 card, and to clearly have a nice showcase with the picture and design.

Then there's the matter that he has 4 DPOYs, which is as much as anyone in history. (Granted Russell would own that if DPOYs had been around in his day.)

Adding Wallace to the Hall tells a story that needs telling.

Are the other figures in question so important? I really don't think so.

I'd say of the group Webber has the argument because of being on the Fab Five, but it would surely help if the most memorable thing he ever did there wasn't to have a brainfart at a moment when a star is supposed to show savvy.

This is why basketball's HOF is a joke, and trails significantly behind football and baseball in terms of being taken seriously. The hall of storytelling? Come on.

[oldschoolball]

Pierce, Bosh, Jackson

The first two we all know their resumes. As for Ms. Jackson, well, she was NASTY !

The unicorn of her time, 2X Champion, 3X MVP, would've pound you in the paint and devastate you from beyond the arc. Incredible combination of height, athleticism, and skill was simply unprecedented in the women's game. God, what a talent !

[Totalpackage]

Will Paul Pierce gets a bump if he become a member in hall of fame?

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by rman112

This is why basketball's HOF is a joke, and trails significantly behind football and baseball in terms of being taken seriously. The hall of storytelling? Come on.

If Latrell Sprewell isn’t in the HOF then Da Art of Storytellin’ is a sham

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

If Latrell Sprewell isn’t in the HOF then Da Art of Storytellin’ is a sham

Should've used a guy named Rick as an example..

I was actually trying to find the dirty version with Slick Rick video on Youtube the other day, but they took it down.

[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by bruin805

I really would love it if Marques Johnson made it in. He didn't have the longevity that most HOFers have, but he still has career averages of 20 points and 7 rebounds over an 11 year career. Plus he had a great college career (1975 NCAA championship, 1977 Wooden Award winner).

I think a good comp for him is Grant Hill, but without the back end of the career as a supporting player. Both had the great college careers for storied programs. Both came out of the gate as rookies averaging close to 20 ppg and then had multiple All-NBA appearances early in their careers. Marques made 1st team, 2nd team, and 2nd team in his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons. Hill made 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd in his 2nd through 6th seasons. Both played that "point forward" type of role.

A good modern comp on paper is Blake Griffin

[deemsterz33]

Funny enough, Chris Bosh has as many ASG appearances (11) as Barkley, Baylor, Durant, Erving, Ewing and Iverson. As well as one less than Magic, Bird, Robertson, Russell and Olajuwon.

[rustywest]

Originally Posted by Tallboy

I think both Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups need to be in the Hall from those Pistons teams.

(I also think Rasheed Wallace did enough to get in the Hall, but his attitude may permanently keep him out.)

Huh? That's called personality, passion. Something we like to stamp out in this queefy culture nowadays. Beefing with referees is not a reason to blacklist a HOF candidate. Teammates loved Rasheed - A bad attitude is something that spills out into the locker room, not in heat of the moment bad calls/presumed bad calls.

[byronscott4ever]

I’m biased towards Cooper but he’s won two WNBA titles and G-League title too