PWCC Selling Altered PSA 5 T206 Christy Mathewson Portrait (Huigens/Moser PSA Sub)

3124508 on COMC · 05-08-2021, 11:46 AM

This card has been cleaned, the corners have been altered, and a large vertical crease has been almost totally removed. When it was initially sold by PWCC after alteration, it sounds like the crease had been removed completely, but it has now started to reappear per the auction description. Card is from a known Huigens/Moser PSA submission. Buyer beware.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2755080
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1865157
https://auction.lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=89003

PSA cert #: 41600017

pip · 05-08-2021, 02:26 PM

I know I'm probably stating the obvious here for those of us who collect T206s but I'd much rather have the PSA 4 pedigreed "Charles Bray" card than the thoroughly molested PSA 5. Even if the PSA 5 were a clean card with a grade bump, I'd rather have the card with known provenance indicated on the flip. I think the marketplace would value it higher too. That's a totally stupid alteration, imo.

Pink Pussycat · 05-09-2021, 01:04 AM

How in the hell did they flatten that crease enough to get it to a "5"? That is just crazy, and I bet the PSA grader just missed blatant evidence of the crease.

They would never miss something like this if grading the card for a "normal" submitter. I think any sane collector would prefer the Bray card.

Never Get Cheated.

hammertime · 05-09-2021, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

I know I'm probably stating the obvious here for those of us who collect T206s but I'd much rather have the PSA 4 pedigreed "Charles Bray" card than the thoroughly molested PSA 5. Even if the PSA 5 were a clean card with a grade bump, I'd rather have the card with known provenance indicated on the flip. I think the marketplace would value it higher too. That's a totally stupid alteration, imo.

100%...so unnecessary.

salthill · 05-09-2021, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

How in the hell did they flatten that crease enough to get it to a "5"? That is just crazy, and I bet the PSA grader just missed blatant evidence of the crease.

Maybe it was in their pocket, and they got caught in a rain shower (of distilled water) and the rain worked its way through the sonic weld on the PSA slab and soaked the card and they had to crack it out to dry it off and accidentally stretched it while dabbing it down with blotting paper and that removed the crease and when they resubmitted it for encapsulation (for protection course) they were stunned to find it had bumped a grade?

pip · 05-09-2021, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

How in the hell did they flatten that crease enough to get it to a "5"? That is just crazy, and I bet the PSA grader just missed blatant evidence of the crease.

They would never miss something like this if grading the card for a "normal" submitter. I think any sane collector would prefer the Bray card.

I bet the graders just about gagged when some of the frankencards crossed their desks but it was PWCC, so they had be holdered and shipped back in time for the next ebay auction. Those were the orders. Business as usual.

TrickyNick · 05-09-2021, 05:45 AM

Pardon my ignorance, but I get confused.

This would cost *thousands* dollars to grade based on "Declared Value," correct?

Even if you're paying your best grader $500/hr, that grader could spend several HOURS on this card and PSA would still be profitable.

So my question, given the repeated level of failures shown, is -

Is PSA crooked or stupid?

mfisher27 · 05-09-2021, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrickyNick

Pardon my ignorance, but I get confused.

This would cost *thousands* dollars to grade based on "Declared Value," correct?

Even if you're paying your best grader $500/hr, that grader could spend several HOURS on this card and PSA would still be profitable.

So my question, given the repeated level of failures shown, is -

Is PSA crooked or stupid?

Walk through is $600/card with a declared value up to $9,999 and premium 1 is $1,000/card with a declared value up to $24,999. Plus, these are post increase prices so they were likely a bit less when this was submitted.

I wonder how much time they spend on cards at the various levels. I know something like, 45 seconds/card is thrown around on the board but I would be curious of each level (assuming it isn’t outlined on the board).

MoreToppsPlease · 05-09-2021, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrickyNick

Pardon my ignorance, but I get confused.

This would cost *thousands* dollars to grade based on "Declared Value," correct?

Even if you're paying your best grader $500/hr, that grader could spend several HOURS on this card and PSA would still be profitable.

So my question, given the repeated level of failures shown, is -

Is PSA crooked or stupid?

It’s to PSA’s advantage to say that they are both at this point because that’s all anyone would believe.

pspa123 · 05-09-2021, 12:23 PM

"And what we said of it became of part of what it is."

Wallace Stevens, A Postcard from the Volcano

Pink Pussycat · 05-09-2021, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspa123

"And what we said of it became of part of what it is."

Wallace Stevens, A Postcard from the Volcano

Very deep, Sir....

Almost as deep as that (former) crease!

Never Get Cheated.

05-08-2021, 11:46 AM	#1
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,457	PWCC Selling Altered PSA 5 T206 Christy Mathewson Portrait (Huigens/Moser PSA Sub) This card has been cleaned, the corners have been altered, and a large vertical crease has been almost totally removed. When it was initially sold by PWCC after alteration, it sounds like the crease had been removed completely, but it has now started to reappear per the auction description. Card is from a known Huigens/Moser PSA submission. Buyer beware. https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2755080 https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1865157 https://auction.lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=89003 PSA cert #: 41600017 __________________ 3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud Last edited by 3124508 on COMC; 05-08-2021 at 01:06 PM.

05-09-2021, 12:23 PM	#10
pspa123 Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,772	"And what we said of it became of part of what it is." Wallace Stevens, A Postcard from the Volcano __________________ "We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur, or sharpen it to crystal clarity." Opening narration, The Outer Limits.

05-08-2021, 02:26 PM	#2
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	I know I'm probably stating the obvious here for those of us who collect T206s but I'd much rather have the PSA 4 pedigreed "Charles Bray" card than the thoroughly molested PSA 5. Even if the PSA 5 were a clean card with a grade bump, I'd rather have the card with known provenance indicated on the flip. I think the marketplace would value it higher too. That's a totally stupid alteration, imo.

05-09-2021, 01:04 AM	#3
Pink Pussycat Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 595	How in the hell did they flatten that crease enough to get it to a "5"? That is just crazy, and I bet the PSA grader just missed blatant evidence of the crease. They would never miss something like this if grading the card for a "normal" submitter. I think any sane collector would prefer the Bray card. Never Get Cheated.

05-09-2021, 05:45 AM	#7
TrickyNick Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 236	Pardon my ignorance, but I get confused. This would cost thousands dollars to grade based on "Declared Value," correct? Even if you're paying your best grader $500/hr, that grader could spend several HOURS on this card and PSA would still be profitable. So my question, given the repeated level of failures shown, is - Is PSA crooked or stupid?