Hobby love for relief pitchers? - Page 2

BaseballKing · 05-12-2021, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Who's showing up to see relievers play, today? NOBODY! Don't try to over think it. Don't try to outthink the room. Most pitchers aren't hobby darlings. Mascot cards have a bigger market. Think about it.

The dagger, haha

BaseballKing · 05-12-2021, 08:19 PM

I thought at one point Jordan Hicks from the Cards might be worth following - he was very young to be a closer. But then injury and haven't heard a thing since.

VandyCards · 05-12-2021, 08:19 PM

There are some I like because they are Vandy alums.

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BaseballKing · 05-12-2021, 08:26 PM

Jordan Hicks had his 1stBowman chrome auto and flagship RC in the same year. Is that a quirky stat? Or are there other players who have had both in the same year?

I'm going out on a limb here and could be exposed for my lack of pre-2017 knowledge. I can't think of anyone else.

Nung2019 · 05-12-2021, 08:30 PM

Chicks dig the longball.... hobby digs the longball

BBases31 · 05-12-2021, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

I'm referring to actual baseball value and not necessarily hobby value. You continue to repeat yourself. It's okay that some people disagree with you.

Of course it is! You should get back to buying cards of the racist closer

mfw13 · 05-12-2021, 08:33 PM

The problem is that relief pitchers rarely have any sort of longevity. Most are good for a few years and then get hurt or lose their stuff.

And because so many pitchers can be converted into good relievers for a year or two, the role is not highly valued.

There are only six pitchers who have 400+ saves.....but there have been 172 different 40-save seasons (and 322 35-save seasons).

stevebay · 05-12-2021, 09:19 PM

I'm thinking what may help a RP is if he has some eccentric personality that is intriguing...think Ricky Vaughn from Major League. The last eccentric reliever I recall, was Brian Wilson "Fear the Beard". Just racking up saves is meh, but if he does it with style (either on or off the field, it could draw interest.

tconte · 05-12-2021, 09:23 PM

Do Trevor Hoffman RC cards go for big money?

johnlocke36 · 05-12-2021, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Who's showing up to see relievers play, today? NOBODY! Don't try to over think it. Don't try to outthink the room. Most pitchers aren't hobby darlings. Mascot cards have a bigger market. Think about it.

I agree that they probably aren't worth anything but disagree that nobody is showing up to watch them play. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I tune in to watch every karinchak/hader/crocher appearance I can but I don't go out of my way to watch Mike Trout at bats.

Outside of degrom I don't think there are to many pitchers (or players that matter) more fun to watch than these guys. Again that doesn't mean their cards are worth anything or should they be just that they are def exciting to watch and there are lots of people that go out of their way to watch them pitch.

Also with regards to karinchak yes his BAPIB is absurdly low and will go up but being lucky with respect to BABIP means a lot less when you strikeout 17-18 per 9. Its also not just a tiny 16 inning stretch as he had a K/9 close to 18 for last year as well.

and that's why I don't think you can compare him much to someone like hoffman. Here's a more interesting question: if you had to rank pitchers in terms of best stuff where would you put him some of these guys.

For me he's probably #2 behind degrom

xTri · 05-12-2021, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

I agree that they probably aren't worth anything but disagree that nobody is showing up to watch them play. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I tune in to watch every karinchak/hader/crocher appearance I can but I don't go out of my way to watch Mike Trout at bats.

Outside of degrom I don't think there are to many pitchers (or players that matter) more fun to watch than these guys. Again that doesn't mean their cards are worth anything or should they be just that they are def exciting to watch and there are lots of people that go out of their way to watch them pitch.

Also with regards to karinchak yes his BAPIB is absurdly low and will go up but being lucky with respect to BABIP means a lot less when you strikeout 17-18 per 9. Its also not just a tiny 16 inning stretch as he had a K/9 close to 18 for last year as well.

and that's why I don't think you can compare him much to someone like hoffman. Here's a more interesting question: if you had to rank pitchers in terms of best stuff where would you put him some of these guys.

For me he's probably #2 behind degrom

Aroldis comes to mind

Alwayslefty · 05-13-2021, 12:43 AM

Karinchek and Clase have a chance to be the bad boys like Dibble and Charlton. The Indians pen is so good right now that they are winning games with perhaps the worst offense in the league. That lineup has between 5-7 hitters so bad that they make anorexic teenagers jealous with their Avg.

The season is young, they are on a roll and fun to watch. Enjoy it. Also I bought a Clase blue wave auto in Feb for 6$. Just missed the gold that went for 10$. The blues are selling north of 100$. So there is money to be made.

Also, when Clase gets that sinking cut on his 102 mph fastball, Karinchek’s curveball is even like “dayyyymmmmnn”.

cardsin47 · 05-13-2021, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

Obv relief pitchers are way down the ladder for resale value but curious if you think that will change

Ain’t gonna’ happen Cap’n

fulltritty · 05-13-2021, 05:15 AM

I pick up as many parallels of Yankees relievers as I can. Admittedly, I have no Yankee relief autographs other than 1 Mo. The other thing to remember is that Topps doesn't make a lot of reliever cards other than maybe the closer and best holds guy every year as they just aren't as sexy or popular as the starting hitters and pitchers.

DevonMPalmer · 05-13-2021, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fulltritty

I pick up as many parallels of Yankees relievers as I can. Admittedly, I have no Yankee relief autographs other than 1 Mo. The other thing to remember is that Topps doesn't make a lot of reliever cards other than maybe the closer and best holds guy every year as they just aren't as sexy or popular as the starting hitters and pitchers.

Yankee relievers are a different animal. Ottavino prices were WAY up and selling when he was dominating. Loasiga autos are apparently way more valuable than Trevor Hoffman.

If you are trying to buy low and sell high, you gotta think PC/Team collectors. David Robertson in Yankees uniform, for instance. Longevity, success, WS champ. He'll always be remembered.

Raleigh504 · 05-13-2021, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalterAZ31

whats his face, Devin Williams? won ROTY last year (which was a joke) and you cant give his cards away

I happened to pull one last year and once they announced his ROTY award, I sold it for almost $10.

Rebought one earlier this year for about $1. Just need to capitalize, like any player, at the right time.

OhioPlayer · 05-13-2021, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayslefty

Karinchek and Clase have a chance to be the bad boys like Dibble and Charlton. The Indians pen is so good right now that they are winning games with perhaps the worst offense in the league. That lineup has between 5-7 hitters so bad that they make anorexic teenagers jealous with their Avg.

The season is young, they are on a roll and fun to watch. Enjoy it. Also I bought a Clase blue wave auto in Feb for 6$. Just missed the gold that went for 10$. The blues are selling north of 100$. So there is money to be made.

Also, when Clase gets that sinking cut on his 102 mph fastball, Karinchek’s curveball is even like “dayyyymmmmnn”.

I know I’m an Indians fan/ but Clase is must see tv

Scottish Punk · 05-13-2021, 09:16 AM

It still comes down to a one big thing for relievers, imo. In essence, they are failed starters. The low innings pitched per year means a ton of variability with success. If they were better pitchers than they would likely find success as a starter. At that point, the hobby would give them some love.

PKIPP · 05-13-2021, 10:01 AM

K-Rod is one of the top 5 relief pitchers ever (imo) and his stuff is no more valuable than an average position player.

I don’t mind it bc I like picking up some of his stuff from early-mid 2000’s occasionally.

Jose Valverde was very popular with Tigers fans for his first three seasons when he dominated, then was boo’d out of town as soon as he struggled. I’m not sure if he ever had any hobby love though even among tiger fans, I wasn’t collecting at the time so no idea.

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rms13 · 05-13-2021, 10:07 AM

Apparently there isn’t even a market for pitchers these days with maybe the exception of Koufax. I don’t get it. When I was collecting as a kid Clemens and Golden were two of the hottest players in the hobby! Since getting back into collecting I’ve come to accept that people only care about hitters in MLB and QBs in NFL.

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SupermanBrandon · 05-13-2021, 10:18 AM

Back in the day, pitchers did things that you had never seen before. The Ryan Express could throw the ball harder than anyone. Guys in the 50s would throw until their arm fell off. We're just in a different era. Hard to get excited about guys playing less than 2/3rds of a game, once a week. We live in a highlight world. Pitchers are typically on the wrong side of most baseball highlights.

rms13 · 05-13-2021, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Back in the day, pitchers did things that you had never seen before. The Ryan Express could throw the ball harder than anyone. Guys in the 50s would throw until their arm fell off. We're just in a different era. Hard to get excited about guys playing less than 2/3rds of a game, once a week. We live in a highlight world. Pitchers are typically on the wrong side of most baseball highlights.

Not necessarily. I heard that the avg K rate for all MLB pitchers combined this year is higher than Koufax or Ryan’s career K rate. Pitchers are more dominant than ever. We’ve already had 4 no hitters this year. But pitchers pitch less often than in the past, throw fewer innings and blow out their arms much more frequently so I can see why it’s not a long term investment. Pitchers are now like RB in the NFL where you are lucky to get 5 prime years.

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WHyFLy · 05-13-2021, 11:30 AM

Chicks dig the Long Ball and Flamethrowers, that is it. If a player can't have the potential to hit 30+ HR's or K 10 batters a game, then forget about it.

rms13 · 05-13-2021, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHyFLy

Chicks dig the Long Ball and Flamethrowers, that is it. If a player can't have the potential to hit 30+ HR's or K 10 batters a game, then forget about it.

well that sums up just about every player in baseball now. The game has been simplified to HR or K every at bat and nobody cares anymore. The average game is about 3 hours with about 20 minutes of actual action. There is an average 3 minutes between the first pitch and the first ball being put in play. In the age of Tik Tok where everyone under 20 years old wants their entertainment in 30 second clips nobody is going to sit around for 3 minutes waiting for something to happen.

discostu · 05-13-2021, 11:53 AM

Brian Wilson was able to generate some decent hobby interest, but he was such a character...his position seemed secondary.

05-12-2021, 08:19 PM	#28
VandyCards Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 5,411	There are some I like because they are Vandy alums. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ I collect cards of former Vanderbilt baseball players. CURRENTLY SEEKING ANY AND ALL SERIAL NUMBERERD/SP TONY KEMP TOPPS CARDS.

05-12-2021, 09:23 PM	#34
tconte Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Marlton, NJ - Less Than an Hour from the Millville Meteor! Posts: 2,034 aconte	Do Trevor Hoffman RC cards go for big money? __________________ Numbered cards......this is no longer the way. If you invest in cards, don't forget Cecil Cooper!

05-13-2021, 10:01 AM	#44
PKIPP Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Michigan Posts: 4,980	K-Rod is one of the top 5 relief pitchers ever (imo) and his stuff is no more valuable than an average position player. I don’t mind it bc I like picking up some of his stuff from early-mid 2000’s occasionally. Jose Valverde was very popular with Tigers fans for his first three seasons when he dominated, then was boo’d out of town as soon as he struggled. I’m not sure if he ever had any hobby love though even among tiger fans, I wasn’t collecting at the time so no idea. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ i collect Miguel Cabrera, Detroit Tigers, Carmelo Anthony, Donovan Mitchell, Detroit Pistons Follow me on IG: Cardboard_vault

05-13-2021, 11:30 AM	#48
WHyFLy Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,028 youeyscollectibles youeyscollectibles	Chicks dig the Long Ball and Flamethrowers, that is it. If a player can't have the potential to hit 30+ HR's or K 10 batters a game, then forget about it. __________________ "Risk Something Or Forever Sit With Your Dreams" - Herb Brooks Always Buying! Selling! Trading! Instagram: YoueysCollectibles

05-13-2021, 11:53 AM	#50
discostu Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 7,990	Brian Wilson was able to generate some decent hobby interest, but he was such a character...his position seemed secondary. __________________ Every day I start to ooze.

05-12-2021, 08:19 PM	#27
BaseballKing Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: I got banned from BO/God bless you all Posts: 1,941	I thought at one point Jordan Hicks from the Cards might be worth following - he was very young to be a closer. But then injury and haven't heard a thing since.

05-12-2021, 08:26 PM	#29
BaseballKing Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: I got banned from BO/God bless you all Posts: 1,941	Jordan Hicks had his 1stBowman chrome auto and flagship RC in the same year. Is that a quirky stat? Or are there other players who have had both in the same year? I'm going out on a limb here and could be exposed for my lack of pre-2017 knowledge. I can't think of anyone else.

05-12-2021, 08:30 PM	#30
Nung2019 Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,240	Chicks dig the longball.... hobby digs the longball

05-12-2021, 08:33 PM	#32
mfw13 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 17,341	The problem is that relief pitchers rarely have any sort of longevity. Most are good for a few years and then get hurt or lose their stuff. And because so many pitchers can be converted into good relievers for a year or two, the role is not highly valued. There are only six pitchers who have 400+ saves.....but there have been 172 different 40-save seasons (and 322 35-save seasons).

05-12-2021, 09:19 PM	#33
stevebay Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 199	I'm thinking what may help a RP is if he has some eccentric personality that is intriguing...think Ricky Vaughn from Major League. The last eccentric reliever I recall, was Brian Wilson "Fear the Beard". Just racking up saves is meh, but if he does it with style (either on or off the field, it could draw interest.

05-13-2021, 12:43 AM	#37
Alwayslefty Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: SoCal Posts: 615 hilde_5515	Karinchek and Clase have a chance to be the bad boys like Dibble and Charlton. The Indians pen is so good right now that they are winning games with perhaps the worst offense in the league. That lineup has between 5-7 hitters so bad that they make anorexic teenagers jealous with their Avg. The season is young, they are on a roll and fun to watch. Enjoy it. Also I bought a Clase blue wave auto in Feb for 6$. Just missed the gold that went for 10$. The blues are selling north of 100$. So there is money to be made. Also, when Clase gets that sinking cut on his 102 mph fastball, Karinchek’s curveball is even like “dayyyymmmmnn”.

05-13-2021, 05:15 AM	#39
fulltritty Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: King George, VA Posts: 77,627	I pick up as many parallels of Yankees relievers as I can. Admittedly, I have no Yankee relief autographs other than 1 Mo. The other thing to remember is that Topps doesn't make a lot of reliever cards other than maybe the closer and best holds guy every year as they just aren't as sexy or popular as the starting hitters and pitchers.

05-13-2021, 09:16 AM	#43
Scottish Punk Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 9,646 scottishpunk	It still comes down to a one big thing for relievers, imo. In essence, they are failed starters. The low innings pitched per year means a ton of variability with success. If they were better pitchers than they would likely find success as a starter. At that point, the hobby would give them some love.

05-13-2021, 10:07 AM	#45
rms13 Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: California Posts: 7,040	Apparently there isn’t even a market for pitchers these days with maybe the exception of Koufax. I don’t get it. When I was collecting as a kid Clemens and Golden were two of the hottest players in the hobby! Since getting back into collecting I’ve come to accept that people only care about hitters in MLB and QBs in NFL. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05-13-2021, 10:18 AM	#46
SupermanBrandon Banned Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: TN Posts: 15,843	Back in the day, pitchers did things that you had never seen before. The Ryan Express could throw the ball harder than anyone. Guys in the 50s would throw until their arm fell off. We're just in a different era. Hard to get excited about guys playing less than 2/3rds of a game, once a week. We live in a highlight world. Pitchers are typically on the wrong side of most baseball highlights.