Goldin Price Predictions - June 2021 Premium Auction

[ninjacookies]

Perhaps UD employed the Bitz trim method to repair the factory damage, while simultaneously upgrading the patch as a courtesy gesture for the man and his kids taking a roadtrip to kardboard Disneyland.

[Zedlaw]

Do we know what the factory defect was? Also the memory is a funky thing and writing a letter detailing events from 15 years prior isn’t any type of concrete truth. Is it crazy to think the defect had something to do with the patch and Upper Deck just switched that out, maybe with or without upper management’s approval.

[hairyangryfella]

Saw the LeBron, immediately thought it looked wrong.
Kinda wish Ken wouldn't be so aggressive/arrogant when he replies but I suppose he's defending his business.

Haven't looked at any cards other than the first page. The jerseys however are appealing...

[sebreg]

Very odd provenance and card history. It's funny how things can get real weird real fast with cards, especially when higher $ amounts are involved. If I were operating in those zip codes I'd due diligence the hell out of the card to have as exact an understanding of the product and its history as I could. (Un)fortunately these aren't things I have to worry about because I'm not operating in those zip codes. Best of luck with sale.

[pcptrade]

Some of those high end cards were likely submitted few months ago when the prices were still strong. I have consigned with Goldin in the past and they list the ones that were submitted first (first come, first served) especially if they have multiples of the same card in similar grade in their inventory. Goldin will determine when to list your cards once you submit them and it's in their contract. This is true for both common (Jordan Fleer PSA 10's, LeBron TC PSA 10's, Brady BC PSA 10's, Brady SP Authentic BGS 9.5's etc.) and scarce/rare high end cards.

[603cards]

Originally Posted by kgoldin

Of course its a real letter.
here is the original with folds.
as well as a text follow up to a phone conversation with the person who wrote it at Upper Deck (i am trying to upload the copy but its isnt going thru. I will ask my photo dept tomorrow to edit its size). I wrote the CEO of the company Jason Mashera and copied Chris Carlin. I got a written reply confirming that the letter is correct AND the owner of the card personally visited upper deck and was handed the letter and the business card, and got a tour of UD with his family, and i have pictures of his kids at the company for proof.
I also have all the email correspondence to and from upper deck in email from 2019.

So here you have it
you have 2 options.

1. the original creator of the image that was shown above of the 44/99 card with white patch photoshopped the card/signature (or it actually isnt a match, take your pic)

OR
2. Upper Deck, a $500Mil-$1Billion net worth company with multiple licenses, a longstanding tradition in the hobby since 1989 and a contender for an NBA license when it comes up intentionally in 2022 lies (for zero reason) and defrauds the hobby and leaves themselves open for millions of $ in litigation for doing so.

At Goldin, what we did was
1. contact consignor for history
2. demand the full email chain since beginning of time.
3. reach Upper Deck by PHONE.
4. contact the CEO of Upper deck by email and get a reply from the original writer copying the CEO.
5. get all the emails, the emailed PDF as well as the actual hard copy of the letter.
6. get an accounting of the events of the day write up to including the tour of Upper Deck the individual got complete with family pics and him holding the letter while in their building in 2019.
7. have a personal text conversation FROM ME to Chris Carlin the person who wrote the letter who confirmed everything in writing.
8. Have the original letter, business card FedEx to me personally at goldin auctions.

so NO, the letter is not fake, nor altered. and yes upper deck states in the letter "The original was destroyed and this replacement card was numbered 44/99."

You sound a little pressed kenny G. Mind explaining if the original was destroyed why the autograph is the exact same and even in the same spot above the exquisite logo? -love jake

[Cheken]

Originally Posted by kgoldin

Of course its a real letter.
here is the original with folds.
as well as a text follow up to a phone conversation with the person who wrote it at Upper Deck (i am trying to upload the copy but its isnt going thru. I will ask my photo dept tomorrow to edit its size). I wrote the CEO of the company Jason Mashera and copied Chris Carlin. I got a written reply confirming that the letter is correct AND the owner of the card personally visited upper deck and was handed the letter and the business card, and got a tour of UD with his family, and i have pictures of his kids at the company for proof.
I also have all the email correspondence to and from upper deck in email from 2019.

So here you have it
you have 2 options.

1. the original creator of the image that was shown above of the 44/99 card with white patch photoshopped the card/signature (or it actually isnt a match, take your pic)

OR
2. Upper Deck, a $500Mil-$1Billion net worth company with multiple licenses, a longstanding tradition in the hobby since 1989 and a contender for an NBA license when it comes up intentionally in 2022 lies (for zero reason) and defrauds the hobby and leaves themselves open for millions of $ in litigation for doing so.

At Goldin, what we did was
1. contact consignor for history
2. demand the full email chain since beginning of time.
3. reach Upper Deck by PHONE.
4. contact the CEO of Upper deck by email and get a reply from the original writer copying the CEO.
5. get all the emails, the emailed PDF as well as the actual hard copy of the letter.
6. get an accounting of the events of the day write up to including the tour of Upper Deck the individual got complete with family pics and him holding the letter while in their building in 2019.
7. have a personal text conversation FROM ME to Chris Carlin the person who wrote the letter who confirmed everything in writing.
8. Have the original letter, business card FedEx to me personally at goldin auctions.

so NO, the letter is not fake, nor altered. and yes upper deck states in the letter "The original was destroyed and this replacement card was numbered 44/99."

May i ask how your company's stance on strict enforcement of the winning bids etc? Do you bring the nonpayers to small claim court etc? I'm really looking forward to some of the pieces and really sick of the constant shilling/relisting of cards on ebay.

[kgoldin]

Originally Posted by Cheken

May i ask how your company's stance on strict enforcement of the winning bids etc? Do you bring the nonpayers to small claim court etc? I'm really looking forward to some of the pieces and really sick of the constant shilling/relisting of cards on ebay.

Yes
We currently have several legal proceedings going against non payers. Fox Rothschild law firm out of Philly handles them all.

[AUSSIE GAMBLER]

In keeping with the theme of the thread....can anyone predict where this Lillard prizms black ends?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jcardstore]

So obviously the letter is real. The autos look the same to me but one pic was at an angle I'd want to see them overlayed.

Why would a Sr Manager at UD (who's worked there for almost 24 years) risk ruining his reputation, life's work, and open up his company to possible litigation? It makes absolutely no sense to have this guy straight up lie about replacing the card.

Sometimes we try to make major conspiracies out of conjecture.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

So obviously the letter is real. The autos look the same to me but one pic was at an angle I'd want to see them overlayed.

Why would a Sr Manager at UD (who's worked there for almost 24 years) risk ruining his reputation, life's work, and open up his company to possible litigation? It makes absolutely no sense to have this guy straight up lie about replacing the card.

Sometimes we try to make major conspiracies out of conjecture.

It’s the same auto. Clearly UD is in some way mistaken.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

It’s the same auto. Clearly UD is in some way mistaken.

Chris saying he personally handled this case is not mistaken. It would be a flat out lie.

Could another LBJ RPA have been swapped and he misremembered the serial? I suppose that's the only possibility I can think of. Even then I'm sure they have some sort of record of this exchange that can be proved.

[jcardstore]

I just ask, what's the endgame here for UD? What do they stand to gain from flat out lying about this card?

Ken did his DD and UD said the card was legit. If people have issue with the card they should take it up with UD directly

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Chris saying he personally handled this case is not mistaken. It would be a flat out lie.

Could another LBJ RPA have been swapped and he misremembered the serial? I suppose that's the only possibility I can think of. Even then I'm sure they have some sort of record of this exchange that can be proved.

Ninjacookies provides another viable possibility in post #26, though I haven’t measured the card nor do I know the nature of the original defect.

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by jterp5

Thought it would be fun to do another price predictions thread on an upcoming Goldin auction which is once again stacked with some monster cards.

Feel free to throw out guesses to other cards/lots not included in the list below.

1. LeBron James - 2003-04 UD Exquisite RPA /99 - https://goldinauctions.com/2003_04_U...-LOT98411.aspx

2. LeBron James - 2003-04 UD Ultimate /250

BGS 10- https://goldinauctions.com/2003_04_U...-LOT98410.aspx

PSA 10 - https://goldinauctions.com/2003_04_U...-LOT91840.aspx

BGS 9.5 - https://goldinauctions.com/2003_04_U...-LOT98286.aspx

3. Luka Doncic - 2018-19 Panini National Treasures RPA /99 - BGS 9.5 - https://goldinauctions.com/2018_19_N...-LOT94419.aspx

4. Luka Doncic - 2018-19 Panini Prizm Blue Ice /99 - PSA 10 - https://goldinauctions.com/2018_19_P...-LOT94420.aspx

5. Michael Jordan - 1986 Fleer - PSA 10 - https://goldinauctions.com/1986_87_F...-LOT79442.aspx

I mentioned this earlier regarding Lebron 2003 Ultimate Auto/250. There are 16 PSA 10's and 17 BGS 10's. It will be interesting to see the final sale price and the premium difference between the two. The BGS 10 is currently ~70% higher than PSA 10.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Ninjacookies provides another viable possibility in post #26, though I haven’t measured the card nor do I know the nature of the original defect.

Ah, I didn't think about that option, mostly because of ninjacookies' way of explanation, but yes, UD could have "fixed it" on their own. As to jcardstore, dude, that's the same auto - I don't care what angle you hold it at.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Ah, I didn't think about that option, mostly because of ninjacookies' way of explanation, but yes, UD could have "fixed it" on their own. As to jcardstore, dude, that's the same auto - I don't care what angle you hold it at.

I can't explain the auto being the same. That's a mystery for sure but what does UD gain by lying about the card?

The only piece of evidence afaik is the side by side pic.

For a senior level CS manager at UD to put his name to it with such certainty, it doesn't make any sense for him to lie. He stands to gain nothing from it

[jterp5]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

I mentioned this earlier regarding Lebron 2003 Ultimate Auto/250. There are 16 PSA 10's and 17 BGS 10's. It will be interesting to see the final sale price and the premium difference between the two. The BGS 10 is currently ~70% higher than PSA 10.

It's also interesting to note that Goldin sold a BGS 10 of this card in December for 204k (including BP). This one is already at 200k (excluding BP) with over 2 weeks left. IMO, market on select rare/SSP cards still strong...

[Kobefan]

So much attention paid on the Lebron exquisite rpa, I'm more curious as to the relisting of 1996-97 Ex-2000 Credentials set. Why was it relisted? Non-paying bidder or did the buyer decide to flip immediately?

[kgoldin]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

So much attention paid on the Lebron exquisite rpa, I'm more curious as to the relisting of 1996-97 Ex-2000 Credentials set. Why was it relisted? Non-paying bidder or did the buyer decide to flip immediately?

Look carefully
It’s a different set

[sebreg]

Originally Posted by jterp5

It's also interesting to note that Goldin sold a BGS 10 of this card in December for 204k (including BP). This one is already at 200k (excluding BP) with over 2 weeks left. IMO, market on select rare/SSP cards still strong...

Yes some of the upper end desirable/rare goat cards still some to be holding quite strong.

[cking]

Originally Posted by 603cards

You sound a little pressed kenny G. Mind explaining if the original was destroyed why the autograph is the exact same and even in the same spot above the exquisite logo? -love jake

Ken, you have answered other peoples questions since jake asked this question. But for some reason you wont answer his question.

So I will ask as well. The auto is the same auto. Whats the story with that?

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I can't explain the auto being the same. That's a mystery for sure but what does UD gain by lying about the card?

The only piece of evidence afaik is the side by side pic.

For a senior level CS manager at UD to put his name to it with such certainty, it doesn't make any sense for him to lie. He stands to gain nothing from it

Why is everyone assuming the UD rep is either intentionally lying or telling the truth? There's a third, much more likely possibility -- he's simply misremembering. It happens all the time, especially after 15 years have passed.

Think about it logically. First of all, there's no way the UD rep would remember the serial number of the card he replaced after 15 years. So he's either making an assumption that this is the same card from his memory OR he has documentation that shows the serial number of the card he replaced. But if he had physical documentation of the serial number, I can't imagine a reason why he wouldn't produce it or mention it in his letter. Therefore I think it's safe to conclude that there is no documentation, and that his assertion that he replaced this card is based fully on his own personal memory of the event.

With this in mind, if you follow Occam's Razor, the most likely conclusion is that the UD rep is confusing this card for another card he replaced, based on the faulty assumption that this must be the same card. When he was contacted about the discrepancy, he easily could have leapt to the assumption that this was the card he replaced without thinking about it critically.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Why is everyone assuming the UD rep is either intentionally lying or telling the truth? There's a third, much more likely possibility -- he's simply misremembering. It happens all the time, especially after 15 years have passed.

Think about it logically. First of all, there's no way the UD rep would remember the serial number of the card he replaced after 15 years. So he's either making an assumption that this is the same card from his memory OR he has documentation that shows the serial number of the card he replaced. But if he had physical documentation of the serial number, I can't imagine a reason why he wouldn't produce it or mention it in his letter. Therefore I think it's safe to conclude that there is no documentation, and that his assertion that he replaced this card is based fully on his own personal memory of the event.

With this in mind, if you follow Occam's Razor, the most likely conclusion is that the UD rep is confusing this card for another card he replaced, based on the faulty assumption that this must be the same card. When he was contacted about the discrepancy, he easily could have leapt to the assumption that this was the card he replaced without thinking about it critically.

Yea, I think this is probably the most likely. It sure is a bold move to say it with such certainty if you're not really sure about it.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Yea, I think this is probably the most likely. It sure is a bold move to say it with such certainty if you're not really sure about it.

So, its still a lie.