The Official NBA Playoff Thread—-20/21 Edition

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by daeve

Nets commit 2 flagrants on this play - Griffin pushing Giannis as he jumps [dirty+dangerous], Harris with the inadvertent elbow into Connaughton's eye that left a huge gash and a pool of blood on the ground.

Neither called, and play didn't even stop [wouldn't want to ruin the Nets 5v4 advantage, I know]


https://streamable.com/gv8ti0


= no call, no play stoppage.


meanwhile Jokic does get all ball, and not even his bicep, the smaller part of his forearm incidentally gets Payne in the nose, no blood, nothing broken - just great acting by Payne - CP3 has taught them well.


https://twitter.com/iam_johnw2/statu...54112833802241

Lmao. Great acting?
Have you ever been hit in the nose like that?
Joker had a couple plays within a few minutes like that. He was frustrated and it was showing. It was absolutely flagrant. Not sure if he deserved to get thrown out but it was probably only a matter of time the way he was acting.

[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by daeve

Nets commit 2 flagrants on this play - Griffin pushing Giannis as he jumps [dirty+dangerous], Harris with the inadvertent elbow into Connaughton's eye that left a huge gash and a pool of blood on the ground.

Neither called, and play didn't even stop [wouldn't want to ruin the Nets 5v4 advantage, I know]


https://streamable.com/gv8ti0


= no call, no play stoppage.


meanwhile Jokic does get all ball, and not even his bicep, the smaller part of his forearm incidentally gets Payne in the nose, no blood, nothing broken - just great acting by Payne - CP3 has taught them well.


https://twitter.com/iam_johnw2/statu...54112833802241

Let’s just say: inadvertent elbows, blood, contested layups, you see it all the time (clearly a foul on Giannis, but come on, Payne was standing still versus Pat running and creating the force himself, theres a difference between raising an elbow and throwing an elbow, both dirty but not the same). A player with a 100lb size advantage doing a full swing 95ft away from the bucket in frustration and admittedly trying to send a hard foul to excite his team. Not so often. I can’t think of anything recent besides Horry checking Nash into the scorers table. Again, 95ft away from the bucket! I understand fouls in the paint and drive bys and picks and, you know, tough basketball, call the flagrant 1 and move on. I’d love to see some comparable frustration fouls so far from the hoop and outside of normal play. I must be missing something because the world is siding with Jokic, but maybe it’s the contrasts that are getting me: big v small, overly aggressive foul v Payne in a very benign basketball position. Buts it’s probably just my homer glasses.

[Grizzkid12]

Originally Posted by bkcardcollector

boohoo grizzkid. Hope you had a lovely dinner party...

everyone knows that Philly fans are the worst. no big surprise here. but you are literally the worst in the country. literally.

Thank you!

Let me know when you start the fan club! I'd be happy to send some personally inscribed autographed pieces to you.

[Zedlaw]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

He's not a leader? According to who? You?

LMAO

Being an NBA All-Star and former MVP comes with its own inherent leadership qualities but compared to players with similar accolades, KD is pretty low on the historic list. But Harden seems locked in, he looks more engaged in street clothes with the Nets than he did playing for the Rockets. KD, Butler, Kawhi, all not universally loved and seem to need a specific type of team to thrive. I don’t know what you call their ilk? Grumpy leaders

[dhendrix1303]

I guarantee a Hawks win tonight. Betting the farm.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by TSonn

I haven't said anything about 6ers fans because I have no idea, but the 2017 NFCC was the worst fan experience of my life.

I just wanted to give Grizzkid a hard time.

Philly fans in general are pretty terrible, but not as bad as the average person seems to believe. I've been to games where the Eagles were losing to division rivals, and aside from casual ball busting, it never got out of hand, and was even friendly for the most part. I know it happens, but it's not as bad as the media or general fan public make it out to be.

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by daeve

Nets commit 2 flagrants on this play - Griffin pushing Giannis as he jumps [dirty+dangerous], Harris with the inadvertent elbow into Connaughton's eye that left a huge gash and a pool of blood on the ground.

Neither called, and play didn't even stop [wouldn't want to ruin the Nets 5v4 advantage, I know]


= no call, no play stoppage.


meanwhile Jokic does get all ball, and not even his bicep, the smaller part of his forearm incidentally gets Payne in the nose, no blood, nothing broken - just great acting by Payne - CP3 has taught them well.

Originally Posted by Zedlaw

Let’s just say: inadvertent elbows, blood, contested layups, you see it all the time (clearly a foul on Giannis, but come on, Payne was standing still versus Pat running and creating the force himself, theres a difference between raising an elbow and throwing an elbow, both dirty but not the same). A player with a 100lb size advantage doing a full swing 95ft away from the bucket in frustration and admittedly trying to send a hard foul to excite his team. Not so often. I can’t think of anything recent besides Horry checking Nash into the scorers table. Again, 95ft away from the bucket! I understand fouls in the paint and drive bys and picks and, you know, tough basketball, call the flagrant 1 and move on. I’d love to see some comparable frustration fouls so far from the hoop and outside of normal play. I must be missing something because the world is siding with Jokic, but maybe it’s the contrasts that are getting me: big v small, overly aggressive foul v Payne in a very benign basketball position. Buts it’s probably just my homer glasses.

I'm pretty indifferent between Denver and Phoenix, but what he did was clearly reckless and obviously flagrant, and while I may not have tossed him, it A) didn't matter because that series was over and B) don't object to the decision, because I could see why they did it.

Daeve, you're obviously a Jokic fan but to be taken seriously you can't just say "yeah well, so what if he wound up and hit him in the face, at least it wasn't the worst outcome". If someone did it to Jokic or someone on ATL, we'd be getting a million pics and videos showing every angle right? So at least be able to demonstrate that you can recognize the severity of what happened if you want any real kind of discussion. If you're just looking to vent and get poked at as a homer, then do what you gotta do I guess.

Zed, yeah I think that's a good point about how needless / reckless it was, and how that may play a factor into the ejection. Like, if someone is driving to the basket and there's a lot of contact, that's at least within the context of the game. Basically admitting to (through actions) "I'm going to physically take out my frustrations on this guy in a play that is absolutely not in the flow of the game" is step 1 in what would lead up to a fight. Considering Denver was on the verge of being eliminated and frustration was already building, I could also see the refs discussing nipping it in the bud and cutting out any potential for retaliation or fights.

On a personal note, I take flagrants very seriously because even though I've dished out some hard contact in my day, I've also suffered some serious injuries that led to multiple surgeries that are going to affect me for the rest of my life. Basketball is first and foremost a game, and anyone playing should be able to respect their opponents and take care of their safety. To me, anything that shows blatant disregard for someone's safety is "flagrant", whether you were aiming to break someone's nose, or "accidentally" broke someone's nose because you were wildly swinging your elbows.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I just wanted to give Grizzkid a hard time.

Philly fans in general are pretty terrible, but not as bad as the average person seems to believe. I've been to games where the Eagles were losing to division rivals, and aside from casual ball busting, it never got out of hand, and was even friendly for the most part. I know it happens, but it's not as bad as the media or general fan public make it out to be.

I mean, hey, Atlanta fans were audibly cheering during Game 3 when it looked like Embiid had reinjured his knee.

So it could be the pot calling the kettle black here.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by tjforce

I mean, hey, Atlanta fans were audibly cheering during Game 3 when it looked like Embiid had reinjured his knee.

So it could be the pot calling the kettle black here.

I remember this as well. I think people in general are obnoxious, and I mostly deal with people in and around Philly, so I have no defense for Philly or its fans. 76ers are my squad either way.

[Grizzkid12]

Originally Posted by tjforce

I mean, hey, Atlanta fans were audibly cheering during Game 3 when it looked like Embiid had reinjured his knee.

So it could be the pot calling the kettle black here.

Hawks are the only ATL team I'm a fan of, but yea cheering when a player gets injured or hoping for that is awful. Can't dispute that one.

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by tjforce

I mean, hey, Atlanta fans were audibly cheering during Game 3 when it looked like Embiid had reinjured his knee.

So it could be the pot calling the kettle black here.

Yeah, and they cheered again when he took the hard fall and didn't get up for a while. They are truly terrible people.

I've been to games in Yankee stadium [prior one], MSG for Rangers/Knicks, and Wrigley and the drunk/obnoxious fans there are worse/as bad as anything I've seen in most a lifetime of attending games in Philly.

Mexican soccer fans are the legit worst, however.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by dhendrix1303

I guarantee a Hawks win tonight. Betting the farm.

I like the confidence!

Do you really own a farm?

[ballhawkdawk]

Speaking of tonight's game, any thoughts on the Hawks just letting Embiid feast on 1v1 coverage and then making the rest of the 76ers beat them? The 76ers have a lot of guys that can score, so I'm not sure it's a good idea, but the Hawks can't just keep going back to the well with the same gameplan and expect things to go any better.

[gomiamigo]

And watch Capela foul out in H1 and Collins in Q3? Not sure that's an improvement.

It's like when you played the Bulls in the playoffs and didn't have a wing who could hope to guard MJ, or if you had a poor rebounding center vs Moses; you're just screwed.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

And watch Capela foul out in H1 and Collins in Q3? Not sure that's an improvement.

It's like when you played the Bulls in the playoffs and didn't have a wing who could hope to guard MJ, or if you had a poor rebounding center vs Moses; you're just screwed.

But don't foul him... and just hope he gets tired.

I honestly have no idea what the Hawks are to do. I'm not saying they can't win, but they need a lot to go their way for it to happen. I don't think they'll roll over, though. Hopefully a fun game tonight.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Speaking of tonight's game, any thoughts on the Hawks just letting Embiid feast on 1v1 coverage and then making the rest of the 76ers beat them? The 76ers have a lot of guys that can score, so I'm not sure it's a good idea, but the Hawks can't just keep going back to the well with the same gameplan and expect things to go any better.

There is a chink in Philly's armor right now and it's Danny Green being out.

It doesn't hurt a whole lot on offense, but defensively replacements like Korkmaz, Maxey, and Milton don't match up to what Green gave.

I think if you are Atlanta you start with your normal lineup. The story of the series has been the Philly starters outplaying the Atlanta starters. Capela has the worst +/- of anyone in the series. If it's not working early for Atlanta, go small and try to out shoot and out run the 6ers.

Go Trae, Williams, Huerter, Gallinari, and Collins and go bombs away. Embiid will definitely get his. Tobias and Simmons might too.... but they can at least play the game of "our 3's will outpace your 2's".

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by dhendrix1303

I guarantee a Hawks win tonight. Betting the farm.

Crap

[oshmeehan]

Probably no surprise to anyone, but Kyrie is listed as OUT for Game 5 on Tuesday night

[Kingofkings1281]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

This is such a ridiculous, absurd, hilariously wrong take.

He led OKC to the Finals, beating:
Dirk and the Mavs, the defending champs 4-0, put up 27-8
Kobe and the Lakers 4-1, put up 27-9
Duncan, two other HOFers and the Spurs 4-2, 30-8-5, 3.2 st/blks

and then winning G1 over one of the greatest superteams of alltime, putting up 31ppg at age 23 vs 27yr old Lebron, 27y Bosh and 30yr Wade.

His teammates, 22yr Russ shot 43%/14% and 22yr Harden shot 37%/31% that series. KD shot 55%/40%.

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

He's not a leader? According to who? You?

LMAO

Sorry I hurt your feelings, guys. Don’t let KD know what I said or he might make an account on here just to put me in my place.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by Zedlaw

Let’s just say: inadvertent elbows, blood, contested layups, you see it all the time (clearly a foul on Giannis, but come on, Payne was standing still versus Pat running and creating the force himself, theres a difference between raising an elbow and throwing an elbow, both dirty but not the same). A player with a 100lb size advantage doing a full swing 95ft away from the bucket in frustration and admittedly trying to send a hard foul to excite his team. Not so often. I can’t think of anything recent besides Horry checking Nash into the scorers table. Again, 95ft away from the bucket! I understand fouls in the paint and drive bys and picks and, you know, tough basketball, call the flagrant 1 and move on. I’d love to see some comparable frustration fouls so far from the hoop and outside of normal play. I must be missing something because the world is siding with Jokic, but maybe it’s the contrasts that are getting me: big v small, overly aggressive foul v Payne in a very benign basketball position. Buts it’s probably just my homer glasses.

1) Payne wasn't standing still though - in the frames I provided you can clearly see his leg raised in a running motion - he was quickly pivoting to avoid the swipe - if he was actually standing still then there's likely no contact to his nose.

2) it's an elimination game in the playoffs - and he's making a play on the ball, does it matter where the hoop is? also Jokic is like 15-20 ft away from the basket he needs to score on. This bit of your argument doesn't make much sense.

3) what does 'very benign basketball position' even mean...? It's a playoff elimination game, single digits, near the end of the 3rd Q.


also I couldn't remember the Nash/Horry play so I just re-watched... Horry body/hip checks Nash hard, and makes no play on the ball. so they don't seem to be in the same category of foul to me.

[Ferg1945]

Kyrie OUT for Game 5.

[Mac302]

Originally Posted by tjforce

There is a chink in Philly's armor right now and it's Danny Green being out.

It doesn't hurt a whole lot on offense, but defensively replacements like Korkmaz, Maxey, and Milton don't match up to what Green gave.

I think if you are Atlanta you start with your normal lineup. The story of the series has been the Philly starters outplaying the Atlanta starters. Capela has the worst +/- of anyone in the series. If it's not working early for Atlanta, go small and try to out shoot and out run the 6ers.

Go Trae, Williams, Huerter, Gallinari, and Collins and go bombs away. Embiid will definitely get his. Tobias and Simmons might too.... but they can at least play the game of "our 3's will outpace your 2's".

Forgetting about Thybulle?

I don't know why people are so concerned about not having Green. I'd like him to be in the lineup but offensively he has not shown much lately and defensively Thybulle is MUCH better then him

[daeve]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

I'm pretty indifferent between Denver and Phoenix, but what he did was clearly reckless and obviously flagrant, and while I may not have tossed him, it A) didn't matter because that series was over and B) don't object to the decision, because I could see why they did it.

Daeve, you're obviously a Jokic fan but to be taken seriously you can't just say "yeah well, so what if he wound up and hit him in the face, at least it wasn't the worst outcome". If someone did it to Jokic or someone on ATL, we'd be getting a million pics and videos showing every angle right? So at least be able to demonstrate that you can recognize the severity of what happened if you want any real kind of discussion. If you're just looking to vent and get poked at as a homer, then do what you gotta do I guess.

I'm pretty indifferent at this point too - I know Denver isn't winning without their backcourt and 2nd best player. What I despise is officials making it about them and not the play on the court.

If Jokic swings and connects at a dude's face, sure toss him. I watch boxing and have friends who do it - and teach me some basics from time to time, you typically don't use the inner forearm to inflict damage....and again, I took the time to provide stills showing exactly where and how Jokic connected with both Payne and the ball.

switch the ball and Payne's nose's positions and I agree it's flagrant 2.

what happened? Jokic wound up - true - to slap the ball away completely - which he did... no blood, no concussion protocol, nothing broken from the defender.

The Griffin on Giannis foul is worse to me - players are actually vulnerable when they jump - and BG did not make a play on the ball whatsoever. That's a flagrant 1 all day. Harris connected, inadvertently, with Connaughton, but did so with his elbow and caused quite a bit of damage - if he meant to do it that's an F2, but he didn't so that's a flagrant 1.

so in Jokic' case, he did make contact with Payne's nose - but did swipe the ball away - I'd guess it's borderline F1. In no way was he attempting to injure Payne or throw the game away [again it's a close game and on his home floor]

If you want a good example of a big guy going at a smaller guy with nothing but malicious intent and no play on the ball, only clearly frustrated with the game, then the best example is Bynum on Barea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIWSKssJP2E

30-pt blowout in the 4th [so the game is 100% over], no aplogy even attempted - dude just heads straight for the locker, no play on the ball, just a dirty play and absolutely a F2.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by daeve

I'm pretty indifferent at this point too - I know Denver isn't winning without their backcourt and 2nd best player. What I despise is officials making it about them and not the play on the court.

If Jokic swings and connects at a dude's face, sure toss him. I watch boxing and have friends who do it - and teach me some basics from time to time, you typically don't use the inner forearm to inflict damage....and again, I took the time to provide stills showing exactly where and how Jokic connected with both Payne and the ball.

switch the ball and Payne's nose's positions and I agree it's flagrant 2.

what happened? Jokic wound up - true - to slap the ball away completely - which he did... no blood, no concussion protocol, nothing broken from the defender.

The Griffin on Giannis foul is worse to me - players are actually vulnerable when they jump - and BG did not make a play on the ball whatsoever. That's a flagrant 1 all day. Harris connected, inadvertently, with Connaughton, but did so with his elbow and caused quite a bit of damage - if he meant to do it that's an F2, but he didn't so that's a flagrant 1.

so in Jokic' case, he did make contact with Payne's nose - but did swipe the ball away - I'd guess it's borderline F1. In no way was he attempting to injure Payne or throw the game away [again it's a close game and on his home floor]

If you want a good example of a big guy going at a smaller guy with nothing but malicious intent and no play on the ball, only clearly frustrated with the game, then the best example is Bynum on Barea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIWSKssJP2E

30-pt blowout in the 4th [so the game is 100% over], no aplogy even attempted - dude just heads straight for the locker, no play on the ball, just a dirty play and absolutely a F2.

Well Jokic did swing and connect with the dude's face and he was tossed. So I guess it was the correct call.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Mac302

Forgetting about Thybulle?

I don't know why people are so concerned about not having Green. I'd like him to be in the lineup but offensively he has not shown much lately and defensively Thybulle is MUCH better then him

Not forgetting Thybulle...

His minutes were actually down in Game 3 after Green went down.

Thybulle went from 19 mins in Game 1, to 24 mins in Game 2, down to 17 mins in Game 3.

Those extra Green minutes were eaten up by Furkan and Shake, who each got more minutes in Game 3 than they did in Games 1 and combined.