Michael Jordan RC, PSA 10, shatters 100k !!!

[Pat3ntP3nd1ng]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Are you actually aware of how they grade though? Gem mint is not perfect. Clearly stated in their grading standards. Easy concept to understand. So how is PSA not doing their job correctly? They're just not doing your interpretation of what grading should be. Given the success of PSA and the failure of other companies who have implemented strategies similar to what you are asking for, PSA's grading standard is the market favorite.

Anybody can quickly look at the PWCC-S copy and the current Goldin copy and see that the two do not have the same eye appeal.

Yes I am aware of how they grade, hence my last sentence in my previous statement. I’m also aware that the “eye appeal” rating is flawed as well. Many examples of cards with a high rating that isn’t warranted. So now not only do you have a flawed grade but flawed eye appeal rating, thus giving the collector/investor a false sense of value. Again, too many fingers, but as is said a lot here you buy the grade. Something as a collector first I would never prescribe to.

I’m not debating if they are the market favorite. Clearly for investing purpose they are they way to go for most cards. All I’m saying is all these gimmicky side sprouts of eye appeal wouldn’t exist if PSA provided a more in depth grading criteria/process.

PSA is in a unique situation being the market cornerstone of grading to make changes to their methods without disrupting their own market. This is not SGC or “insert your grading company”.

Do you not think they owe it to the collector to have better processes? Or are they strictly for investors now?

What would you like to see from them or do you think they can’t get better?

Personally, I don’t like other companies particularly ones in position to profit more essentially grading the grader to bolster their bottom line. It’s about the perception regardless of said intent in this instance.

The Jordan 86F is one of the leading iconic cards that would do well for both investors and collectors if PSA took the lead in creating advancements for the hobby.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Pat3ntP3nd1ng

Yes I am aware of how they grade, hence my last sentence in my previous statement. I’m also aware that the “eye appeal” rating is flawed as well. Many examples of cards with a high rating that isn’t warranted. So now not only do you have a flawed grade but flawed eye appeal rating, thus giving the collector/investor a false sense of value. Again, too many fingers, but as is said a lot here you buy the grade. Something as a collector first I would never prescribe to.

I’m not debating if they are the market favorite. Clearly for investing purpose they are they way to go for most cards. All I’m saying is all these gimmicky side sprouts of eye appeal wouldn’t exist if PSA provided a more in depth grading criteria/process.

PSA is in a unique situation being the market cornerstone of grading to make changes to their methods without disrupting their own market. This is not SGC or “insert your grading company”.

Do you not think they owe it to the collector to have better processes? Or are they strictly for investors now?

What would you like to see from them or do you think they can’t get better?

Personally, I don’t like other companies particularly ones in position to profit more essentially grading the grader to bolster their bottom line. It’s about the perception regardless of said intent in this instance.

The Jordan 86F is one of the leading iconic cards that would do well for both investors and collectors if PSA took the lead in creating advancements for the hobby.

I think the market has spoken over the last 25 years and decided that they like the numerical grading that PSA provides more than what every other company does. Introducing fractional grades, or even just a 9.5 “mint plus” grade would be disastrous. No need to fix something that isn’t broken.

If people want pristine cards or subgrades, there are plenty of other companies who provide that level of granularity in their grading.

[anderjam]

Hello, was wondering if I could get some opinions on this Fleer Jordan RC. Have been in negotiations on a local deal. It's an old label (BGS 7.5). Seller believes that if re-submitted today, it would confidently be a (BGS 8). This is a sticking point on the price. What do you think of this getting an 8 today? The current subs are:
Centering: 8.5
Corners: 7.5 (thinks this would get a bump if graded today)
Edges: 8
Surface: 7.5

Untitled by J. A., on Flickr

Untitled by J. A., on Flickr

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Should I guide you to the "Eagle Eye" Joe thread? https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...=eagle+eye+joe

You used a great qualifying word in your statement - "presumably." I'm not saying PWCC doesn't hold an interest in their "S" stickers, but they've stickered a total of two 57 Jordan's.

The value of a sticker will be tied to the scarcity of them, so if they hand them out easily the premium and hence the higher consignment fee thing doesn't work (not long-run, anyway).

The idea of Goldin, Heritage and others starting to use their own stickers to keep up with sticker hype does sound just marvelous.

[Pat3ntP3nd1ng]

Originally Posted by anderjam

Hello, was wondering if I could get some opinions on this Fleer Jordan RC. Have been in negotiations on a local deal. It's an old label (BGS 7.5). Seller believes that if re-submitted today, it would confidently be a (BGS 8). This is a sticking point on the price. What do you think of this getting an 8 today? The current subs are:
Centering: 8.5
Corners: 7.5 (thinks this would get a bump if graded today)
Edges: 8
Surface: 7.5

Untitled by J. A., on Flickr

Untitled by J. A., on Flickr

PSA 10 with top 30% eye appeal.


Seriously though, an BGS 8 seems reasonable assuming the surface is solid and not dented/dimpled.

[Pat3ntP3nd1ng]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I think the market has spoken over the last 25 years and decided that they like the numerical grading that PSA provides more than what every other company does. Introducing fractional grades, or even just a 9.5 “mint plus” grade would be disastrous. No need to fix something that isn’t broken.

If people want pristine cards or subgrades, there are plenty of other companies who provide that level of granularity in their grading.

Just because a majority of people use PSA for slabbing it doesn’t necessarily mean they like them, nor does it mean that there isn’t something broke. If I decide to sell my higher end cards one day I will use them for the grading (except exquisite). It’s not because I like them but because they offer a higher return. I think a lot of people are in my boat when it comes to that because of the snowball of acceptance of PSA brand as the industry leader. It’s almost out of default now that we choose PSA.

Objectively looking at it, their slab technology is out dated. I can’t imagine someone picking PSA primarily for card protection purposes. Now looking at it From the standpoint as an investor, you’re making the assumption that because they provide the highest return that they are the best. They are the best because they give you the highest return. PSA and BGS benefit from the first mover advantage clearly. If both companies were start ups today which slab would you choose? Why?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Pat3ntP3nd1ng

Just because a majority of people use PSA for slabbing it doesn’t necessarily mean they like them, nor does it mean that there isn’t something broke. If I decide to sell my higher end cards one day I will use them for the grading (except exquisite). It’s not because I like them but because they offer a higher return. I think a lot of people are in my boat when it comes to that because of the snowball of acceptance of PSA brand as the industry leader. It’s almost out of default now that we choose PSA.

Objectively looking at it, their slab technology is out dated. I can’t imagine someone picking PSA primarily for card protection purposes. Now looking at it From the standpoint as an investor, you’re making the assumption that because they provide the highest return that they are the best. They are the best because they give you the highest return. PSA and BGS benefit from the first mover advantage clearly. If both companies were start ups today which slab would you choose? Why?

Chicken vs egg argument that cannot be solved.

I use PSA for my investments because they generate the best returns. I use PSA for my PC because I like the slabs, grading scale, and registry more than any other company.

[Pat3ntP3nd1ng]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Chicken vs egg argument that cannot be solved.

I use PSA for my investments because they generate the best returns. I use PSA for my PC because I like the slabs, grading scale, and registry more than any other company.

Fair enough.

[Unwrapit]

Use a star designation going forward like PMG uses for banknotes. Been doing it for years. Separates high end from ultra high-end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[triks]

Originally Posted by anderjam

Hello, was wondering if I could get some opinions on this Fleer Jordan RC. Have been in negotiations on a local deal. It's an old label (BGS 7.5). Seller believes that if re-submitted today, it would confidently be a (BGS 8). This is a sticking point on the price. What do you think of this getting an 8 today? The current subs are:
Centering: 8.5
Corners: 7.5 (thinks this would get a bump if graded today)
Edges: 8
Surface: 7.5

Untitled by J. A., on Flickr

Untitled by J. A., on Flickr

If the seller is so confident, why wouldn't he re-submit? I feel this is no different than all the BGS 9.5, PSA 10? listings on ebay.

[sh403]

Originally Posted by triks

If the seller is so confident, why wouldn't he re-submit? I feel this is no different than all the BGS 9.5, PSA 10? listings on ebay.

Right, and in order to resubmit it and have a realistic chance of getting a better grade, you’d need to crack it and submit raw. That’s extremely risky because of the card has been altered (trimmed or pressed) and BGS missed it the first time but catches it the second time, then you’re #@#@#@#@ out of luck. Perhaps that’s the answer to the question of why the seller doesn’t crack and resubmit himself. I don’t know, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to buy a card on the assumption or likelihood that you’ll be able to resubmit it for a better grade because you may end up with no grade at all

[Springerj23]

Originally Posted by sh403

Right, and in order to resubmit it and have a realistic chance of getting a better grade, you’d need to crack it and submit raw. That’s extremely risky because of the card has been altered (trimmed or pressed) and BGS missed it the first time but catches it the second time, then you’re #@#@#@#@ out of luck. Perhaps that’s the answer to the question of why the seller doesn’t crack and resubmit himself. I don’t know, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to buy a card on the assumption or likelihood that you’ll be able to resubmit it for a better grade because you may end up with no grade at all

It is currently in a 7.5 holder and should be valued as such. Thats my number one rule, you can't pay over valuation of a card. You can pay under or right at average comps if you really want it, but not over. If the seller doesn't understand this, no deal, and if he thinks it has that good of a shot of bumping, what is he waiting on. I personally think the centering grade is generous, and I can see white on 3 of the 4 corners. I think its fairly graded.
Could it grade an 8, yes, but I think it could also grade a 7.

[anderjam]

Originally Posted by sh403

Right, and in order to resubmit it and have a realistic chance of getting a better grade, you’d need to crack it and submit raw. That’s extremely risky because of the card has been altered (trimmed or pressed) and BGS missed it the first time but catches it the second time, then you’re #@#@#@#@ out of luck. Perhaps that’s the answer to the question of why the seller doesn’t crack and resubmit himself. I don’t know, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to buy a card on the assumption or likelihood that you’ll be able to resubmit it for a better grade because you may end up with no grade at all

That is a good point, you’re really assuming a lot of risk in this case (greater risk than reward). Seller must have doubt it would get a bump. Not to mention the cost to submit, premium only if sending in right now.

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by anderjam

Hello, was wondering if I could get some opinions on this Fleer Jordan RC. Have been in negotiations on a local deal. It's an old label (BGS 7.5). Seller believes that if re-submitted today, it would confidently be a (BGS 8). This is a sticking point on the price. What do you think of this getting an 8 today? The current subs are:
Centering: 8.5
Corners: 7.5 (thinks this would get a bump if graded today)
Edges: 8
Surface: 7.5

Untitled by J. A., on Flickr

Untitled by J. A., on Flickr

How low is the serial #? The lower, the better. Are we talking in the 7 figures or in the 6 figures?

As for the card, it looks beautiful. Great centering, smooth edges, the bottom 2 corners look perfect and the back is white with no yellowing. Biggest flaw is the top two corners, which show some wear but it's minimal. Looks like a solid 8 by any objective standards.

[anderjam]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

How low is the serial #? The lower, the better. Are we talking in the 7 figures or in the 6 figures?

As for the card, it looks beautiful. Great centering, smooth edges, the bottom 2 corners look perfect and the back is white with no yellowing. Biggest flaw is the top two corners, which show some wear but it's minimal. Looks like a solid 8 by any objective standards.

Serial # is in the 6 figures, graded 21 years ago in 8/2000.

[rohara99]

The 8.5 centering on the Jordan is generous based on BGS cards graded in the last year or so. They’re hammering on centering lately.

Maybe corners get bumped but that centering could be an 8 as well.

[FT35]

Originally Posted by rohara99

The 8.5 centering on the Jordan is generous based on BGS cards graded in the last year or so. They’re hammering on centering lately.

Maybe corners get bumped but that centering could be an 8 as well.

Very possible. I do think the reason it got the .5 bump is because top/bottom is pretty 50/50 dead on. But it could always go the other way.

[anderjam]

Originally Posted by rohara99

The 8.5 centering on the Jordan is generous based on BGS cards graded in the last year or so. They’re hammering on centering lately.

Maybe corners get bumped but that centering could be an 8 as well.

Thanks, I agree that the 8.5 centering could be generous, although top-bottom looks good. The surface also could a concern; the white spot on the nameplate, fish eye on the back top, and that tiny black dot on the back bottom-right. Wonder if that would stay a 7.5 or risk going down to a 7 sub grade.

[Ericc5Bears]

ignore

[Ericc5Bears]

Usually sellers are blowing smoke when they say stuff like that, but I gotta say, 7.5 seems super harsh for those corners unless he's hiding some kind of ding/wrinkle that can't be seen through the case.

[90skid]

Anybody see this yet? Who wants in?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Investor-LO...-127632-2357-0

[bpc3qh]

Originally Posted by 90skid

Anybody see this yet? Who wants in?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Investor-LO...-127632-2357-0

$500,000 per card seems like a bit of an overpay, and 13 cards out of a pop of more than 300 is hardly "cornering the market"...

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by 90skid

Anybody see this yet? Who wants in?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Investor-LO...-127632-2357-0

Thery don't have the stickers, so easy pass. Perhaps Probstein should come up with his own stickers similar to PWCC

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by anderjam

Serial # is in the 6 figures, graded 21 years ago in 8/2000.

Card looks absolutely beautiful for a 7.5 IMO. BGS was INSANELY tough when they first came out. This is probably one of those examples.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

Thery don't have the stickers, so easy pass. Perhaps Probstein should come up with his own stickers similar to PWCC

Guarantee you that's Gary Vee's stash.

Remember, the dude that loudly proclaimed in the months leading up that he vowed to purchase a ton of Jordan PSA 10's at the National...


then never showed up.