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Old 09-02-2021, 11:31 AM   #1
tonye82
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Default Does the Fanatics deal mean Topps Heritage is done?

Forgive me, I am still trying to understand what the deal with Fanatics means for Topps Heritage or what it could mean down the line. Maybe too early to even ask. Been collecting Heritage since 2004. I am a little beyond shocked to learn that 2022 Topps Heritage is the last year of Topps Heritage? Is that what this deal means? We seriously aren't gonna see the 1975 design, or even finish the 70's? Anyone also wanna share theories how Topps could still produce MLB cards with their old designs - is it possible? Thanks!
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:35 AM   #2
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I would think it's possible for them to continue their MLB releases if they are bought by fantatics, other than that not sure how they could continue on after deal expires in 2025
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:36 AM   #3
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Yes, assume that Heritage ends unless Fanatics licenses the designs and Topps brand.

No possible scenario exists where Topps produces MLB cards without being under the Fanatics umbrella.

This deal all but eliminates unlicensed baseball products.
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:37 AM   #4
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I definitely foresee Fanatics buying either Topps or Panini (or both).

Topps is the prime target due to history, and would allow for Topps products in all sports (with logos!). If Panini doesn't sell, a deal like this would kill them.
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:37 AM   #5
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I would think it's possible for them to continue their MLB releases if they are bought by fantatics, other than that not sure how they could continue on after deal expires in 2025
I am also thoroughly confused about what Topps is allowed to do with something like Heritage between 2023-2025, as I understand it Fanatics takes over in 2026?
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:37 AM   #6
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unless fanatics buys topps, or licencses the brand names, heritage, a&g, bowman, chrome, etc. all will be gone.

topps would be able to continue, but would not have access to mlb names / logos or mlbpa members. so they would essentially have to become the new "leaf" cards.
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:39 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by rngrdanny22 View Post
I definitely foresee Fanatics buying either Topps or Panini (or both).

Topps is the prime target due to history, and would allow for Topps products in all sports (with logos!). If Panini doesn't sell, a deal like this would kill them.
might kill panini america, but panini itself would more than likely survive.
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:41 AM   #8
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might kill panini america, but panini itself would more than likely survive.

If they can't make MLB, NFL, NBA, or Hockey cards, what's left? Just Soccer?
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:43 AM   #9
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There are at least 4 possibilities:

1. Heritage is done. If nothing changes, that's where we are. The name 'Heritage' is Topps' IP as well, in addition to all the designs, obviously.

2. Fanatics contracts with Topps select licenses, with one of those being Heritage.

3. Fanatics buys Topps and continues with most of the lines we currently see, with Heritage being one of them.

4. Topps, etc win an anti-trust lawsuit against Fanatics & hammer out subsequent relationships with MLB & MLBPA. This one's the least likely, as litigation will be hell.

There's obviously lots of time for this all to resolve, and we'll know Topps' plans sooner than them coming to fruition. It's not saying much, but this news is still less than a month old.

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Old 09-02-2021, 11:45 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by tonye82 View Post
Forgive me, I am still trying to understand what the deal with Fanatics means for Topps Heritage or what it could mean down the line. Maybe too early to even ask. Been collecting Heritage since 2004. I am a little beyond shocked to learn that 2022 Topps Heritage is the last year of Topps Heritage? Is that what this deal means? We seriously aren't gonna see the 1975 design, or even finish the 70's? Anyone also wanna share theories how Topps could still produce MLB cards with their old designs - is it possible? Thanks!
It’s done unless Fanatics buys Topps or the rights to use the Heritage brand.
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:45 AM   #11
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can anyone shed light on what happens in the 2023-2025 period with something like Heritage or anything else Topps? How the cards could look between players and logos? Don't they lose a license in 2023 but still have another until 2025?
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:46 AM   #12
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If they can't make MLB, NFL, NBA, or Hockey cards, what's left? Just Soccer?
panini, not panini america, is much much more than cards.

Publishing represents the second biggest but fastest growing business area of the Group, making it one of the top multi-territorial youth publishers in the world. Today, the Division originates, edits, translates, and publishes over 7,000 comics, magazines, partworks and books per year throughout Europe, Mexico and Brazil. The Division distributes its products not only in the traditional channels (kiosks, newsstands, bookshops and comic shops) but also in supermarkets, other mass market outlets and online retailers.

Stickers: Panini is synonymous worldwide with stickers and albums. Historically the company has grown thanks to collectable items, and it remains one of the most important areas of business for the Group. Stickers are collectable images printed on adhesive paper so that it is easy to stick them in the related album. They are sold in packs that usually contain 5 to 6 stickers and generally available in the newstrade, confectionary shops and in key retail chains worldwide.

Trading Card Games: Trading Card Games are made of trading cards with an attacking, defensive, and overall rating so collectors can play the game sometimes using an associated game board. In some releases, the unique authorisation code on the back of each card allows users to upload their cards online to a virtual collector's album and play the game on line against the computer or against other players.

spend some time on the actual panini (again, not panini america site) and see all the stuff they have.
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:47 AM   #13
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Panini can distribute its products in more than 500,000 point of sales all over Europe within 72 hours and was therefore established to actively pursue opportunities to distribute products of third party providers through the Company's existing distribution network, further leveraging its infrastructure. The Group can distribute a wide variety of third party products such as small toys and books to newsstands and supermarkets through the same third party network used to distribute products from the Collectables Divisions.

Established more than 50 years ago (1961) in Modena, Italy, the Panini Group has subsidiaries throughout Europe, Latin America and the United States. Panini is the International brand leader within the world of sticker and trading card collectables with over 1.000 collection launches each year and one of the leading publishers of children magazines and books, comics, manga and graphic novels, in Europe and Latin America with over 7.000 publications yearly. Panini employs a staff of over 1.200. 150 territories are regularly actively engaged with Panini’s physical products throughout every part of the World.

There are seven main Business Areas:

Collectibles
Publishing
Distribution
Licensing
Partworks
Panini Digital
Panini Customised Sales and Services

Panini Group companies are:

Panini America, Inc.
Panini Brasil Ltda.
Panini Chile
Panini España SA
Panini France SA
Panini Medya Yayincilik ve Ticaret A.S.
Panini México SA
Panini S.P.A Przedstawicielstwo w Polsce
Panini S.P.A. Italia
Panini Suisse AG
Panini UK Ltd.
Panini Verlags GmbH
ИЗДАТЕЛЬСТВО ПАНИНИ РУС
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:49 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by tonye82 View Post
can anyone shed light on what happens in the 2023-2025 period with something like Heritage or anything else Topps? How the cards could look between players and logos? Don't they lose a license in 2023 but still have another until 2025?
I believe Topps still has a deal with the MLB through 2025 but the MLBPA starts with fanatics in 2023 so maybe fanatics will release panini type products with no logos until 2025.
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:51 AM   #15
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I believe Topps still has a deal with the MLB through 2025 but the MLBPA starts with fanatics in 2023 so maybe fanatics will release panini type products with no logos until 2025.
mlb gives you the logos / mlpba gives you the players

so based on the years you posted, they can use the logos until 2025, both are 2025

"MLB renewed its deal with Topps in 2018, and the existing deal ends in 2025. The MLB Players Association deal also aligns with the league, so its deal would end, too."
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:56 AM   #16
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can anyone shed light on what happens in the 2023-2025 period with something like Heritage or anything else Topps? How the cards could look between players and logos? Don't they lose a license in 2023 but still have another until 2025?
The truth is, no one really knows. There are dozens of options and thousands of guesses.

Good news is we'll find out for certain at some point.
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:58 AM   #17
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mlb gives you the logos / mlpba gives you the players

so based on the years you posted, they can use the logos until 2025, both are 2025

"MLB renewed its deal with Topps in 2018, and the existing deal ends in 2025. The MLB Players Association deal also aligns with the league, so its deal would end, too."
Right, I saw that too. Which is why I think we'll see Topps make baseball per usual until 2025, but for a year or two leading up to that we could have another panini-esque unlicensed product from fanatics...

Saw this on yahoo sports article on it "The MLBPA's deal with Fanatics will reportedly begin in 2023. MLB's current contract with Topps runs through 2025."
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:59 AM   #18
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So to intepret what what glen87 is saying, it means for Fantaics -- Panini America, or at least the trading card portion of it, is prime for being purchased & it's IP absorbed by Fanatics.

Panini's trading card IP is far less valuable than Topps - there's not a lot of value in baseball because lack of license has hurt the brands for 10+ years. In football & basketball, the main brands only go back what, 10-15 years? It's a lot easier to adapt to a 'newer' name brand like Prizm, so their leverage is less. It's definitely on the table that Fanatics is just not interested in Panini America's IP at all.
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Old 09-02-2021, 12:02 PM   #19
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unless fanatics buys topps, or licencses the brand names, heritage, a&g, bowman, chrome, etc. all will be gone.
Actually A&G is probably the easiest to continue without a license and they could use it a conduit for other properties as insets. A&G essentially becomes Topps' Goodwin. They can fill it with any license they own and Sign some Baseball players to exclusives. It would essentially keep Topps Baseball alive, albeit neutered.

I can envision an A&G product that has 1st Chrome cards of NIL prospects, Heritage cards of Exclusive Athletes etc all as inserts.
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Old 09-02-2021, 12:02 PM   #20
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So to intepret what what glen87 is saying, it means for Fantaics -- Panini America, or at least the trading card portion of it, is prime for being purchased & it's IP absorbed by Fanatics.

Panini's trading card IP is far less valuable than Topps - there's not a lot of value in baseball because lack of license has hurt the brands for 10+ years. In football & basketball, the main brands only go back what, 10-15 years? It's a lot easier to adapt to a 'newer' name brand like Prizm, so their leverage is less. It's definitely on the table that Fanatics is just not interested in Panini America's IP at all.
no one has any knowledge as of yet if fanatics will take control of any of panini or topps assets. that is just an option IF they elect to go that route.

i am not suggesting that is what will happen, i just meant to say that is what would have to happen in order to continue to produce the current sets.
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Old 09-02-2021, 12:04 PM   #21
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Actually A&G is probably the easiest to continue without a license and they could use it a conduit for other properties as insets. A&G essentially becomes Topps' Goodwin. They can fill it with any license they own and Sign some Baseball players to exclusives. It would essentially keep Topps Baseball alive, albeit neutered.

I can envision an A&G product that has 1st Chrome cards of NIL prospects, Heritage cards of Exclusive Athletes etc all as inserts.
you are correct except the baseball players could not be a part of the mlbpa.

they could not use any of the mlbpa members in the set.
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Old 09-02-2021, 12:07 PM   #22
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no one has any knowledge as of yet if fanatics will take control of any of panini or topps assets. that is just an option IF they elect to go that route.



i am not suggesting that is what will happen, i just meant to say that is what would have to happen in order to continue to produce the current sets.
Yeah, apologies. I didn't need to mention you in my post. It's not what you were saying -- at the least poorly worded by me.

It's all 100% speculation!

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Old 09-02-2021, 12:12 PM   #23
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Yeah, apologies. I didn't need to mention you in my post. It's not what you were saying -- at the least poorly worded by me.

It's all 100% speculation!

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the only part that is not speculation (and to answer the original op question) is fanatics would have to acquire the rights from topps (outright purchase, license deal, lease, partnership, etc) to continue to make the current version of heritage.

topps could continue to make heritage, just in a revised form - minor league, nil, etc... but obviously it would not be the equivalent of the current heritage.
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Old 09-02-2021, 12:13 PM   #24
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you are correct except the baseball players could not be a part of the mlbpa.

they could not use any of the mlbpa members in the set.
I'm pretty sure that's not true, unless things have changed since 2003 when Barry Bonds opted out of the group MLBPA licensing agreement, but was still a member of the MLBPA.
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Old 09-02-2021, 12:18 PM   #25
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I'm pretty sure that's not true, unless things have changed since 2003 when Barry Bonds opted out of the group MLBPA licensing agreement, but was still a member of the MLBPA.
https://www.mlbplayers.com/

Major League Baseball Players Association

Is the union that represents players on the 40-man rosters of the 30 Major League baseball teams and oversees MLB Players, Inc., which exclusively represents the group commercial and licensing activities involving active players.
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