Wander Franco Rookie Card Debate (2021 Bowman's Best vs. 2022 RC logo cards) - Page 43

rfgilles · 01-10-2022, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

I can't imagine a "rookie card" with no stat line on the back. That's kinda important in the baseball card world. I guess there could be another example of one, but I can't think of any. To me, that's just a prospect card/insert.

How about the rookie card in your avatar or Mike Trout's?

k13 · 01-10-2022, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

I can't imagine a "rookie card" with no stat line on the back. That's kinda important in the baseball card world. I guess there could be another example of one, but I can't think of any. To me, that's just a prospect card/insert.

Are you talking about mlb stats or any stats?
Because its common not to have mlb stats.

k13 · 01-10-2022, 08:28 AM

I can't imagine not knowing what a rookie card is.
You learn that as a kid.

theshowandme · 01-10-2022, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k13

I can't imagine not knowing what a rookie card is.
You learn that as a kid.

People my age are the ones supposed to be having the most trouble with this (late 20s) since the RC logo came out when we were young teens. Somehow I am seeing a large amount of Gen X losing their cool about this. I thought they were the rational generation between boomers and millennials.

SaveMeTheGum · 01-10-2022, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

But that’s before 2005, when this strange RC symbol that’s put on every freaking card depicting a rookie came into existence!

That card has the stat lines. Just like 1989 upper deck Griffey. They didn’t have stats, but the stat lines are there. Because it’s an actual non-insert type set. Are there any significant rookie cards post 1947 that don’t have a stat line on the card?

Pacmeyer · 01-10-2022, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just think for a moment about who got royally screwed.

In a nutshell... $600 million payday went *poof* and Hollywood moguls aren't the type to forget. It's no more ridiculous than saying some BO members are using a thread to pump their stash of cards (erm... investment boxes anyone?)

And '21 BB would have been sent to the printers months before the Fanatics sale.

SaveMeTheGum · 01-10-2022, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k13

Are you talking about mlb stats or any stats?
Because its common not to have mlb stats.

Any stats.

SaveMeTheGum · 01-10-2022, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k13

I can't imagine not knowing what a rookie card is.
You learn that as a kid.

Everyone seems to have their own definition. It’s like trying to define “good driving”.

Rooftop · 01-10-2022, 08:43 AM

BB50

Know it, learn it, live it..

theshowandme · 01-10-2022, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

I can't imagine a "rookie card" with no stat line on the back. That's kinda important in the baseball card world. I guess there could be another example of one, but I can't think of any. To me, that's just a prospect card/insert.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

But that’s before 2005, when this strange RC symbol that’s put on every freaking card depicting a rookie came into existence!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

That card has the stat lines. Just like 1989 upper deck Griffey. They didn’t have stats, but the stat lines are there. Because it’s an actual non-insert type set. Are there any significant rookie cards post 1947 that don’t have a stat line on the card?

SaveMeTheGum · 01-10-2022, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Ah yes, perfect! That’s exactly the kind of example I was looking for. Of course there’s been RC argument about that one for 70 years lol. I’ve ALWAYS wished there was a 1951 Topps Mantle.

Shankweather · 01-10-2022, 09:42 AM

More so than other major sports, Baseball is successful today largely because of what happened in the past. Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, Cooperstown, home run records, Wrigley Field. All these very old things that make what's happening on the field today matter even more. Which is why the baseball Hall of Fame discussion comes along every year and people go nuts, but no one ever talks about it in the NFL or NBA. The old stuff in baseball in many ways matters more than what's happening now. I don't think that's something to lament or fix. I think it sustains baseball, and it's why the national market for baseball is pretty small but the local markets are huge. It's driven by generations of families going to the park or watching the local broadcast. It's a $10 billion local sport.

And I think that's why some of us continue to argue for the old way of looking at rookie cards (even though the new way is really just the old way with a little logo). It's not just hobby tradition that drives it, it's baseball tradition, connecting the new to the old. I care about Wander Franco's rookie card because I care about Gabby Hartnett's rookie card. (Is it 1922 American Caramel or 1933 Goudey? Have you even heard of Gabby Hartnett?) We use stats like WAR to compare players across eras. I guess in some way RC is a stat, and its usefulness depends on its reliability and consistency.

Baseball is never going to be like the NFL or NBA, and the more it tries to be the more it will fail. The differences are what make it great and they shouldn't be fixed. Rookie cards in those other sports are easy: last year of college in year X, RC in year X+1. It's complicated in baseball and I like it that way. I like it that they have their first minor league card, then their 1st Bowman, then their rookie card, then maybe even their (rookie card). That mess in some bizarre way connects these players to those from 100 years ago, and that's why my love for very old baseball cards made me fall in love with 2021 Bowman's Best in 2022.

ddouglas14 · 01-10-2022, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

But that’s before 2005, when this strange RC symbol that’s put on every freaking card depicting a rookie came into existence!

If you need a modern example ... 2010 Mike Leake ... look at any of those, they are RCs and none have MLB (or MiLB for that matter) stats on them

towerymt · 01-10-2022, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Holy Crap! For an entire week, the #1 Thread on BO has been debating what a Rookie Card is……. can’t wait ‘till next week, when the “what’s a Wax Box” thread debuts

If I don't have a 2 in 15 chance at a PSA-8(ST), it's not a wax box.

towerymt · 01-10-2022, 10:03 AM

This thread (from the Koufax rookie card)

Disclaimer: I have purchased zero packs, boxes, or cases of 2021 Bowmans Best. I've bought zero Wander 2021 Bowmans Best. I've pre-ordered zero 2022 Series 1.

cardsin47 · 01-10-2022, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

Just think for a moment about who got royally screwed.

In a nutshell... $600 million payday went *poof* and Hollywood moguls aren't the type to forget. It's no more ridiculous than saying some BO members are using a thread to pump their stash of cards (erm... investment boxes anyone?)

And '21 BB would have been sent to the printers months before the Fanatics sale.

Big difference - no one In the Investment Wax thread is:
a) selling anything
B) representing something different than it is

ThoseBackPages · 01-10-2022, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Big difference - no one In the Investment Wax thread is:
a) selling anything
B) representing something different than it is

how do you not own 2021 Bowmans Best Boxes?

cardsin47 · 01-10-2022, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

how do you not own 2021 Bowmans Best Boxes?

Because I don’t buy 2nd from the bottom of the Bowman lineup, 2021 prospects only / no rookie Card of Wander, undesirable go nowhere wax

cj828282 · 01-10-2022, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Because I don’t buy 2nd from the bottom of the Bowman lineup, 2021 prospects only / no rookie Cards including Wander, undesirable go nowhere wax

Interested to know what you consider to be the bottom feeder for Bowman? Platinum, Sterling, Inception, Heritage? Just curious.

ThoseBackPages · 01-10-2022, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Because I don’t buy 2nd from the bottom of the Bowman lineup, 2021 prospects only / no rookie Cards including Wander, undesirable go nowhere wax

but im certain you'll be showing off 2022 wax boxes with Wanders non-RCs in them.

BOOK IT.

Bcr · 01-10-2022, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

but im certain you'll be showing off 2022 wax boxes with Wanders non-RCs in them.

BOOK IT.

Did you forget to take your red pill this morning?

ThoseBackPages · 01-10-2022, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bcr

Did you forget to take your red pill this morning?

NEVER!

jhssketchcards · 01-10-2022, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddouglas14

If you need a modern example ... 2010 Mike Leake ... look at any of those, they are RCs and none have MLB (or MiLB for that matter) stats on them

But no one cares about Mike Leake any longer. And if this wasn’t Wander Franco, no one would care.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ddouglas14 · 01-10-2022, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

But no one cares about Mike Leake any longer. And if this wasn’t Wander Franco, no one would care.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TRUTH

ThoseBackPages · 01-10-2022, 11:33 AM

but here we are.

it is Wanders RC, and the masses are not happy

View Poll Results: Which Wander Franco "RC" are you planning to pick up?!
2021 Bowman's Best only	160	15.53%
2022 RC logo cards only	695	67.48%
Both	175	16.99%
Voters: 1030. You may not vote on this poll

01-10-2022, 09:42 AM	#1062
Shankweather Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 857 allthecubs shankweather	More so than other major sports, Baseball is successful today largely because of what happened in the past. Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, Cooperstown, home run records, Wrigley Field. All these very old things that make what's happening on the field today matter even more. Which is why the baseball Hall of Fame discussion comes along every year and people go nuts, but no one ever talks about it in the NFL or NBA. The old stuff in baseball in many ways matters more than what's happening now. I don't think that's something to lament or fix. I think it sustains baseball, and it's why the national market for baseball is pretty small but the local markets are huge. It's driven by generations of families going to the park or watching the local broadcast. It's a $10 billion local sport. And I think that's why some of us continue to argue for the old way of looking at rookie cards (even though the new way is really just the old way with a little logo). It's not just hobby tradition that drives it, it's baseball tradition, connecting the new to the old. I care about Wander Franco's rookie card because I care about Gabby Hartnett's rookie card. (Is it 1922 American Caramel or 1933 Goudey? Have you even heard of Gabby Hartnett?) We use stats like WAR to compare players across eras. I guess in some way RC is a stat, and its usefulness depends on its reliability and consistency. Baseball is never going to be like the NFL or NBA, and the more it tries to be the more it will fail. The differences are what make it great and they shouldn't be fixed. Rookie cards in those other sports are easy: last year of college in year X, RC in year X+1. It's complicated in baseball and I like it that way. I like it that they have their first minor league card, then their 1st Bowman, then their rookie card, then maybe even their (rookie card). That mess in some bizarre way connects these players to those from 100 years ago, and that's why my love for very old baseball cards made me fall in love with 2021 Bowman's Best in 2022. __________________ Cubs fan Registry nerd https://allthecubs.com/

01-10-2022, 10:03 AM	#1065
towerymt Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: VA Posts: 8,959	This thread (from the Koufax rookie card) Disclaimer: I have purchased zero packs, boxes, or cases of 2021 Bowmans Best. I've bought zero Wander 2021 Bowmans Best. I've pre-ordered zero 2022 Series 1. Last edited by towerymt; 04-12-2022 at 10:49 AM.

01-10-2022, 11:33 AM	#1075
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 90,738 ThoseBackPages	but here we are. it is Wanders RC, and the masses are not happy __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

01-10-2022, 08:28 AM	#1053
k13 Banned Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 12,617	I can't imagine not knowing what a rookie card is. You learn that as a kid.

01-10-2022, 08:43 AM	#1059
Rooftop Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 3,571	BB50 Know it, learn it, live it..