Wander Franco Rookie Card Debate (2021 Bowman's Best vs. 2022 RC logo cards) - Page 77

SaveMeTheGum · 01-13-2022, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bcr

5. TrAdItiOn
6. The rookie card definition doesn't care about your feelings
7. Beckett is more relevant than you think
8. Don’t let companies and governing bodies tell you what to do

I could keep going, but I'm not gonna waste my time. And yes it doesn't fit their narrative so they will keep sticking to their "3 rules"

Don't forget

9. I bought a bunch, so I need this to be the RC

ThoseBackPages · 01-13-2022, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

Yes these are both Rookie Cards. Not “The” rookie cards, but rookie cards.

so insert cards are Rookie Cards?

ThoseBackPages · 01-13-2022, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

Don't forget

9. I bought a bunch, so I need this to be the RC

this one belongs to the logo bois, just wait

imbluestreak23 · 01-13-2022, 01:26 PM

This one is my favorite. Want cards of a major sports leagues #1 pick? You'll have to wait 8 years for our logo

jhssketchcards · 01-13-2022, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

Yes these are both Rookie Cards. Not “The” rookie cards, but rookie cards.

Inserts can’t be RC, nor parallels

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SaveMeTheGum · 01-13-2022, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Inserts can’t be RC, nor parallels

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL at "can't" be.

Bcr · 01-13-2022, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Inserts can’t be RC, nor parallels

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Depends on your definition... According to Topps and the MLBPA they can be.

SaveMeTheGum · 01-13-2022, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

This one is my favorite. Want cards of a major sports leagues #1 pick? You'll have to wait 8 years for our logo

He didn't play major league baseball until 2007. That's not Topps' fault Hamilton loved drugs more than baseball...

TUAlum96 · 01-13-2022, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfgilles

There isn't. Posted by someone who was too lazy to read the posts in this thread and get up to speed on the issue.

Oh, I’m up to speed. I was just making a joke regarding the idea that even the element that wasn’t in dispute (the “first card” of the BB disputed rookies) was in dispute. No one is actually arguing about the 2019 Bowman Next Bobby Witt Jr. versus the 2020 Bowman (though I’m a fan of the former).

I’m just one of those people that isn’t taking any of this too seriously.

ThoseBackPages · 01-13-2022, 01:40 PM

love this Brady RC!

imbluestreak23 · 01-13-2022, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

He didn't play major league baseball until 2007. That's not Topps' fault Hamilton loved drugs more than baseball...

Man, imagine if Ben Simmons RCs were held out a year, or Blake Griffin. (using them as an example due to injuries delaying their debuts a year)

NBA stans would be up in arms wanting their NT and Prizm.

Edit: or Joel Embiid!

SaveMeTheGum · 01-13-2022, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

love this Brady RC!

I see you've given up...

Shankweather · 01-13-2022, 01:50 PM

When you start arguing that 2018 Topps Update Legends in the Making #LITM1 Ronald Acuña Jr. is a rookie card, you have lost the argument. It just illustrates a severe lack of knowledge about the history of card collecting, and an unreasonable fascination with the little logo. When someone talks about collecting the set of Acuña rookie cards, they are not talking about this card.

imbluestreak23 · 01-13-2022, 01:50 PM

Figured this would be a good tracker showing the manipulation of MLBPA rules to maximize sales of cardboard to make more money (South Park voice)

2008:
Pablo Sandoval - 8/13/2008 - RC logo in 2008 products including Topps Heritage High Number, 2008 Topps Red Hot Rookie program, but ALSO included in 2008 Bowman Draft (after the previous two releases) as a prospect card. Let this example be proof that it is well within Topps and MLBPAs authority and timeline to release RC logo cards as far up as the middle of August during the same year. Humanity is moving forward (mostly), not behind, and thus we would expect these timelines to shrink thus allowing faster turnaround times for RC logo inclusions.

2013:
Xander Bogaerts - 8/13/13 - RC Logo in 2014 products as hobby poster boy

2014:
Jacob Degrom - 5/13/14 - RC Logo in 2014 products including Finest Mystery Redemption
Gregory Polanco - 6/9/14 - RC Logo in 2014 products
Mookie Betts - 6/28/14 - RC Logo in 2014 products including Stadium Club released October 1st, Update released October 15th, TC Update, TH High Number released November 19th, and Bowman Sterling, Panini Classics, and Panini Donruss
Andrew Susac - 7/26/14 - RC Logo in 2014 products including Bowman Sterling, Panini Classics, Panini Donruss
Javier Baez - 8/4/14 - RC Logo in 2015 products as hobby poster boy
Jorge Soler - 8/25/14 - RC Logo in 2015 products as hobby poster boy

2015:
Carlos Correa - 6/7/15 - RC Logo in 2015 products including Topps Chrome released on 8/3/2015
Francisco Lindor - 6/13/15 - RC Logo in 2015 products including Topps Chrome released on 8/3/2015
Kyle Schwarber - 6/15/15 - RC Logo in 2016 products as hobby poster boy

2016:
Alex Bregman - 7/24/16 - RC Logo in 2017 products as hobby poster boy

2017:
Rafael Devers - 7/23/17 - RC Logo in 2018 products as hobby poster boy

2018:
Ronald Acuna Jr. - 4/20/18 - RC logo in 2018 products including Topps Finest as a mystery redemption released on 6/6/2018 and Topps Series 2 on 6/13/18
Juan soto - 5/20/2018 - RC logo in 2018 products including Topps Archives released 8/13/18

2019:
Fernando Tatis Jr. - 3/28/19 - RC logo in 2019 products
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 4/24/19 - RC logo in 2019 products including Topps Series 2 released 6/12/19
Yordan Alvarez - 6/9/19 - RC logo in 2020 products as hobby poster boy
Bo Bichette - 7/28/19 - RC logo in 2020 products as hobby poster boy

2021:
Wander Franco - 6/22/21 - RC Logo in 2022 products as hobby poster boy, but true RC released in 2021 BB

Hardcore · 01-13-2022, 01:53 PM

Anyone who pulls a 2021 BB Franco or parallel will push to say its the RC to push for a higher ROI now..but those buyers who bought them now need to know that they will lose money fairly quickly.. ie. by mid Feb (Topps series 1 release) on their investment.
Can anyone agree with me that there was a noticeable 'campaign' in social media sources and a lot of new sources..magically out of no where.. to hype this BB card.
I noticed it.
Card companies now have social media teams.. hype is not always real..but created... on purpose.
Value is subjective. Decide for yourself why you want a card and what its worth to you..or you intend to keep it.. or like the vast majority of newer people into the hobby these days..to flip it.
Long term .. the correct answer is the RC logo card... I say.
But this thing of Topps (or Fanatics ) holding players out of sets .. is the real problem.
They could have put him(and should of) in late 2021 sets..like other players like Manoah, Vaughn, India etc.
The year in which a player reaches the majors(if early enough for insertion in sets) should have their RC logo cards..thats why they make update sets.
If only to commemorate (and celebrate).with proper respect for that player reaching the majors in that year. Wander made the majors in 2021 so his RC(with logo) should and must be in 2021 late sets.. Topps had enough time to do it.
Just my opinion.
Happy 2022 collecting everyone.

Hardcore · 01-13-2022, 01:53 PM

please delete..double post

k13 · 01-13-2022, 01:54 PM

It will be easier to pump up one Wanderer than 30 different ones.

20% can pump one card higher than 80% can to all 2022 sets.

ThoseBackPages · 01-13-2022, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardcore

Anyone who pulls a 2021 BB Franco or parallel will push to say its the RC to push for a higher ROI now..but those buyers who bought them now need to know that they will lose money fairly quickly.. ie. by mid Feb (Topps series 1 release) on their investment.
Can anyone agree with me that there was a noticeable 'campaign' in social media sources and a lot of new sources..magically out of no where.. to hype this BB card.
I noticed it.
Card companies now have social media teams.. hype is not always real..but created... on purpose.
Value is subjective. Decide for yourself why you want a card and what its worth to you..or you intend to keep it.. or like the vast majority of newer people into the hobby these days..to flip it.
Long term .. the correct answer is the RC logo card... I say.
But this thing of Topps (or Fanatics ) holding players out of sets .. is the real problem.
They could have put him(and should of) in late 2021 sets..like other players like Manoah, Vaughn, India etc.
The year in which a player reaches the majors(if early enough for insertion in sets) should have their RC logo cards..thats why they make update sets.
If only to commemorate (and celebrate).with proper respect for that player reaching the majors in that year. Wander made the majors in 2021 so his RC(with logo) should and must be in 2021 late sets.. Topps had enough time to do it.
Just my opinion.
Happy 2022 collecting everyone.

youve not seen anything yet when it comes to hype! the #LogoBois will be out in full force next month for sure

brewtown107 · 01-13-2022, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

But EVERYONE who has a card, has a 1st card. That seems more simple to me.

Yes, but we're talking about the definition of rookie card, not first card. The logo says RC. What does that stand for? Royal Crown Cola?

What is a RC? The one that says RC right on it.

What is a 1st card? Doesn't matter... the question being asked is RC.

Again, this is the correct answer if the standard is K.I.S.S.

k13 · 01-13-2022, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardcore

Anyone who pulls a 2021 BB Franco or parallel will push to say its the RC to push for a higher ROI now..but those buyers who bought them now need to know that they will lose money fairly quickly.. ie. by mid Feb (Topps series 1 release) on their investment.
Can anyone agree with me that there was a noticeable 'campaign' in social media sources and a lot of new sources..magically out of no where.. to hype this BB card.
I noticed it.
Card companies now have social media teams.. hype is not always real..but created... on purpose.
Value is subjective. Decide for yourself why you want a card and what its worth to you..or you intend to keep it.. or like the vast majority of newer people into the hobby these days..to flip it.
Long term .. the correct answer is the RC logo card... I say.
But this thing of Topps (or Fanatics ) holding players out of sets .. is the real problem.
They could have put him(and should of) in late 2021 sets..like other players like Manoah, Vaughn, India etc.
The year in which a player reaches the majors(if early enough for insertion in sets) should have their RC logo cards..thats why they make update sets.
If only to commemorate (and celebrate).with proper respect for that player reaching the majors in that year. Wander made the majors in 2021 so his RC(with logo) should and must be in 2021 late sets.. Topps had enough time to do it.
Just my opinion.
Happy 2022 collecting everyone.

2022 S1 will go down too after release yet people will pay inflated prices at start.

Long term 2021 bb will be worth more than 2022 s1 anyway.
There won't be cheap wax to open to get it so the population will be smaller than the total print run.

brewtown107 · 01-13-2022, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

Don't forget

9. I bought a bunch, so I need this to be the RC

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

this one belongs to the logo bois, just wait

This one belongs to both sides, so is not an issue in this discussion.

brewtown107 · 01-13-2022, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shankweather

When you start arguing that 2018 Topps Update Legends in the Making #LITM1 Ronald Acuña Jr. Is a rookie card, you have lost the argument. It just illustrates a severe lack of knowledge about the history of card collecting, and an unreasonable fascination with the little logo. When someone talks about collecting the set of Acuña rookie cards, they are not talking about this card.

It's the "Bowman's Best are rookie cards" side that is (incorrectly) arguing Occam's razor! Occam's razor says that's a RC.

I'm just putting the Occam's Razor argument to bed where it belongs.

imbluestreak23 · 01-13-2022, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewtown107

Yes, but we're talking about the definition of rookie card, not first card. The logo says RC. What does that stand for? Royal Crown Cola?

What is a RC? The one that says RC right on it.

What is a 1st card? Doesn't matter... the question being asked is RC.

Again, this is the correct answer if the standard is K.I.S.S.

The problem with your definition again is there are cards that deserve a Royal Crown Cola logo but do not have it. Exceptions. 1st card is ALL INCLUSIVE, especially if licensed by a league.

I mean, last I checked, the Tampa Bay Rays were paying Wander in 2019 to play baseball. They are a major league team. Henry Davis was drafted #1 overall by Pittsburgh. They are paying him a salary to play baseball. I don't have too much of an issue calling his first cards rookies. Henry Davis 2021 Bowman Draft "rookies" are more so "rookies" in my book than a 2022 4th year Wander after Wander had already hit home runs in the 2021 playoffs.

oldgoldy97 · 01-13-2022, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k13

2022 S1 will go down too after release yet people will pay inflated prices at start.

Long term 2021 bb will be worth more than 2022 s1 anyway.
There won't be cheap wax to open to get it so the population will be smaller than the total print run.

Just wait til he blows out his knee.

theshowandme · 01-13-2022, 02:04 PM

I’m a logooo boiiiiiiii

View Poll Results: Which Wander Franco "RC" are you planning to pick up?!
2021 Bowman's Best only	160	15.53%
2022 RC logo cards only	695	67.48%
Both	175	16.99%
Voters: 1030. You may not vote on this poll

01-13-2022, 01:26 PM	#1904
imbluestreak23 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Meandering the matrix code that the hobby/forum overlords spit out Posts: 18,007 shortslabs	This one is my favorite. Want cards of a major sports leagues #1 pick? You'll have to wait 8 years for our logo __________________ @shortslabs I'VE WITNESSED HOW THE SAUSAGE IS MADE HERE...IT'S ROTTEN https://www.youtube.com/c/TylerShort

01-13-2022, 01:40 PM	#1910
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 90,713 ThoseBackPages	love this Brady RC! __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

01-13-2022, 01:50 PM	#1913
Shankweather Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 857 allthecubs shankweather	When you start arguing that 2018 Topps Update Legends in the Making #LITM1 Ronald Acuña Jr. is a rookie card, you have lost the argument. It just illustrates a severe lack of knowledge about the history of card collecting, and an unreasonable fascination with the little logo. When someone talks about collecting the set of Acuña rookie cards, they are not talking about this card. __________________ Cubs fan Registry nerd https://allthecubs.com/ Last edited by Shankweather; 01-13-2022 at 02:01 PM.

01-13-2022, 01:50 PM	#1914
imbluestreak23 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Meandering the matrix code that the hobby/forum overlords spit out Posts: 18,007 shortslabs	Figured this would be a good tracker showing the manipulation of MLBPA rules to maximize sales of cardboard to make more money (South Park voice) 2008: Pablo Sandoval - 8/13/2008 - RC logo in 2008 products including Topps Heritage High Number, 2008 Topps Red Hot Rookie program, but ALSO included in 2008 Bowman Draft (after the previous two releases) as a prospect card. Let this example be proof that it is well within Topps and MLBPAs authority and timeline to release RC logo cards as far up as the middle of August during the same year. Humanity is moving forward (mostly), not behind, and thus we would expect these timelines to shrink thus allowing faster turnaround times for RC logo inclusions. 2013: Xander Bogaerts - 8/13/13 - RC Logo in 2014 products as hobby poster boy 2014: Jacob Degrom - 5/13/14 - RC Logo in 2014 products including Finest Mystery Redemption Gregory Polanco - 6/9/14 - RC Logo in 2014 products Mookie Betts - 6/28/14 - RC Logo in 2014 products including Stadium Club released October 1st, Update released October 15th, TC Update, TH High Number released November 19th, and Bowman Sterling, Panini Classics, and Panini Donruss Andrew Susac - 7/26/14 - RC Logo in 2014 products including Bowman Sterling, Panini Classics, Panini Donruss Javier Baez - 8/4/14 - RC Logo in 2015 products as hobby poster boy Jorge Soler - 8/25/14 - RC Logo in 2015 products as hobby poster boy 2015: Carlos Correa - 6/7/15 - RC Logo in 2015 products including Topps Chrome released on 8/3/2015 Francisco Lindor - 6/13/15 - RC Logo in 2015 products including Topps Chrome released on 8/3/2015 Kyle Schwarber - 6/15/15 - RC Logo in 2016 products as hobby poster boy 2016: Alex Bregman - 7/24/16 - RC Logo in 2017 products as hobby poster boy 2017: Rafael Devers - 7/23/17 - RC Logo in 2018 products as hobby poster boy 2018: Ronald Acuna Jr. - 4/20/18 - RC logo in 2018 products including Topps Finest as a mystery redemption released on 6/6/2018 and Topps Series 2 on 6/13/18 Juan soto - 5/20/2018 - RC logo in 2018 products including Topps Archives released 8/13/18 2019: Fernando Tatis Jr. - 3/28/19 - RC logo in 2019 products Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 4/24/19 - RC logo in 2019 products including Topps Series 2 released 6/12/19 Yordan Alvarez - 6/9/19 - RC logo in 2020 products as hobby poster boy Bo Bichette - 7/28/19 - RC logo in 2020 products as hobby poster boy 2021: Wander Franco - 6/22/21 - RC Logo in 2022 products as hobby poster boy, but true RC released in 2021 BB __________________ @shortslabs I'VE WITNESSED HOW THE SAUSAGE IS MADE HERE...IT'S ROTTEN https://www.youtube.com/c/TylerShort Last edited by imbluestreak23; 01-13-2022 at 03:34 PM.

01-13-2022, 01:53 PM	#1915
Hardcore Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 627	Anyone who pulls a 2021 BB Franco or parallel will push to say its the RC to push for a higher ROI now..but those buyers who bought them now need to know that they will lose money fairly quickly.. ie. by mid Feb (Topps series 1 release) on their investment. Can anyone agree with me that there was a noticeable 'campaign' in social media sources and a lot of new sources..magically out of no where.. to hype this BB card. I noticed it. Card companies now have social media teams.. hype is not always real..but created... on purpose. Value is subjective. Decide for yourself why you want a card and what its worth to you..or you intend to keep it.. or like the vast majority of newer people into the hobby these days..to flip it. Long term .. the correct answer is the RC logo card... I say. But this thing of Topps (or Fanatics ) holding players out of sets .. is the real problem. They could have put him(and should of) in late 2021 sets..like other players like Manoah, Vaughn, India etc. The year in which a player reaches the majors(if early enough for insertion in sets) should have their RC logo cards..thats why they make update sets. If only to commemorate (and celebrate).with proper respect for that player reaching the majors in that year. Wander made the majors in 2021 so his RC(with logo) should and must be in 2021 late sets.. Topps had enough time to do it. Just my opinion. Happy 2022 collecting everyone.

01-13-2022, 01:53 PM	#1916
Hardcore Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 627	please delete..double post Last edited by Hardcore; 01-13-2022 at 01:56 PM.

01-13-2022, 01:54 PM	#1917
k13 Banned Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 12,617	It will be easier to pump up one Wanderer than 30 different ones. 20% can pump one card higher than 80% can to all 2022 sets.

01-13-2022, 02:04 PM	#1925
theshowandme Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 5,115 theshowandme nova_cards	I’m a logooo boiiiiiiii