2x 1961 Fleer Oscar Robertson Rookies Missing - Likely Signed

[Celtics18]

Hi, I have avoided sharing this story for many months due to my own disappointment. I have been encouraged by others with similar stories to share my story in hopes of someone being able to provide some insight.

I collect signed Hall of Fame Basketball rookies. In 2021, I acquired two graded 1961 Fleer Oscar Robertson rookies. The cards are shown below. I cracked the cards out of their cases and sent to Rich Altman and Hollywood Collectibles for their signing. The signing was held in Florida on April 20th, 2021. I was told not all items were completed, but thankfully mine were. The items were shipped using two day priority mail(I provided the shipping label). Unfortunately, one month later the tracking stopped in Memphis, TN. After many attempts of contacting USPS, filing Missing Mail claims, even getting ahold of the facility in Memphis, I was told the package was lost or stolen. I tried to file a police report, but was told I can't until I receive a "empty" package that confirms the items were stolen otherwise the package could still turn up. Unfortunately after over eight months, such package has never arrived. I spoke with Hollywood Collectibles and they confirmed the items were signed and shipped out and there was nothing they could do. I have done business with them many times before and know they are well respected, so have no reason to believe they did anything wrong. Ultimately, the cards were likely signed by Oscar and were damaged in transit. The Memphis Post Office did mention the package when sent weighed only 1oz, so even they believed there may have not been any contents to begin with. I have no way to prove or deny this statement. Please keep your eyes out and I appreciate any and all help with my situation.





Thanks,
Alexander

[TimBuckTwo]

Wow a quandry.

In this case I don't know if you should have had Hollywood collectibles send back registered mail. Probably a service they do not off due to man hours.

Hope you find a good resolution.

[KhalDrogo]

Sorry for your loss. Hopefully they turn up somewhere as these should be easy to identify.

Wondering what kind of agreement was signed with Hollywood and what return shipping was requested (or if you had the option). Priority is unacceptable for those cards. And I’m not sure how they are not responsible when they are the shipper. Unless you signed away any responsibility they would have.

[Gthompson1978]

Good ‘ol Memphis, a lot, I mean a lot of packages go missing there!!!! They must all be in on it down there. I sold a card on eBay Christmas Day, shipped on the 28th, hit Memphis on the 31st and has never been seen since. The tracking stopped there. I’m working with the buyer right now to try and resolve this. I’m probably getting stuck with having to refund because of thieves.

[Celtics18]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Sorry for your loss. Hopefully they turn up somewhere as these should be easy to identify.

Wondering what kind of agreement was signed with Hollywood and what return shipping was requested (or if you had the option). Priority is unacceptable for those cards. And I’m not sure how they are not responsible when they are the shipper. Unless you signed away any responsibility they would have.

I edited the original post to clarify. I provided the return shipping label, which was not insured, which is where I went wrong in all this. I did talk with Hollywood Collectibles extensively, as to how it was packaged. They reassured me they have over 10 years of shipping experience and it was packaged in multiple layers. If that was the case, not sure how it could have been stolen or damaged to the point of having absolutely nothing delivered to my house. I have done thousands of deals and in the rare case of something going wrong in transit, the package at least arrives empty or damaged with typically an apology letter from USPS.

[Gthompson1978]

Originally Posted by Celtics18

I edited the original post to clarify. I provided the return shipping label, which was not insured, which is where I went wrong in all this. I did talk with Hollywood Collectibles extensively, as to how it was packaged. They reassured me they have over 10 years of shipping experience and it was packaged in multiple layers. If that was the case, not sure how it could have been stolen or damaged to the point of having absolutely nothing delivered to my house. I have done thousands of deals and in the rare case of something going wrong in transit, the package at least arrives empty or damaged with typically an apology letter from USPS.

It’s Memphis, the Bermuda Triangle of packages. Things going through Memphis are most likely never seen again.

[Gthompson1978]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mfw13]

Just like any other service-oriented business, the USPS is also struggling with Omicron. And not just in Memphis.

I had a package show up yesterday that had been stuck at the Springfield, MA distribution Center since Dec 24th.

I had two Xmas cards show up this week that were mailed to me by friends on the other side of town on Dec 10th....took a month to go roughly six miles....

Omicron is decimating the workforces of all types of businesses.....including the USPS....

[nman84]

Sorry OP, I know these signed HOF rookies are your main project. Hopefully they turn up!

[Basketball B]

What a horrible situation to be in! I'm sorry this happened to you.

A few things. Since I'm an autograph collector, I remember reading a long time ago, that you should never send something in the mail to get autographed, that you will regret not getting back. For the obvious reasons -- maybe a secretary signs it. Maybe it gets lost (or stolen) in the mail, etc. I had a friend send an OJ Simpson rookie card to him (when he was still playing, not murdering people). It came back with a stamped signature!!!!

I sent an autographed Raging Bull picture, which was signed by Robert De Niro, to his co-star in the movie that played his wife. I never got it back. And it was a valuable lesson.

I met a guy who sent an 8x10 photo of Yogi Berra to sign. Of course, he send a SASE for it to be returned. And 6 months later, guess what he got back? A photo that showed 20 Hall of Fame players standing together, and it was signed by all but one of those players. Apparently, Yogi signed it and put it in the wrong envelope. Obviously, the guy telling me this story was thrilled that he now had a photo signed by 18 of 20 Hall of Famers, but wonders how pissed the guy must've been that got his lousy 8x10.

What I'm wondering, using all that logic, with your Oscar rookies -- since most card collectors believe a signature on a card lowers the value, why not just send the one that was graded 6? That way you're not messing up a higher graded card? I have sent (back when I was a kid 35 years ago), many NBA players cards. But, I always picked cards in bad condition. The Jerry West 1971 Topps card...already had a crease down the middle. The Elgin Baylor card -- a few torn corners. That way, if I didn't get them back, no biggie. And when I did get them back signed...of course I was thrilled.

That being said...here's what I'm wondering. If we see these cards pop up somewhere, signed...let's say on eBay or some place...would you even have any recourse? I'm guessing you wouldn't, which is a shame. The person selling them could claim they bought them from someone, and...there's no trail of how that person acquired them.

[Celtics18]

Originally Posted by Basketball B

What a horrible situation to be in! I'm sorry this happened to you.

A few things. Since I'm an autograph collector, I remember reading a long time ago, that you should never send something in the mail to get autographed, that you will regret not getting back. For the obvious reasons -- maybe a secretary signs it. Maybe it gets lost (or stolen) in the mail, etc. I had a friend send an OJ Simpson rookie card to him (when he was still playing, not murdering people). It came back with a stamped signature!!!!

I sent an autographed Raging Bull picture, which was signed by Robert De Niro, to his co-star in the movie that played his wife. I never got it back. And it was a valuable lesson.

I met a guy who sent an 8x10 photo of Yogi Berra to sign. Of course, he send a SASE for it to be returned. And 6 months later, guess what he got back? A photo that showed 20 Hall of Fame players standing together, and it was signed by all but one of those players. Apparently, Yogi signed it and put it in the wrong envelope. Obviously, the guy telling me this story was thrilled that he now had a photo signed by 18 of 20 Hall of Famers, but wonders how pissed the guy must've been that got his lousy 8x10.

What I'm wondering, using all that logic, with your Oscar rookies -- since most card collectors believe a signature on a card lowers the value, why not just send the one that was graded 6? That way you're not messing up a higher graded card? I have sent (back when I was a kid 35 years ago), many NBA players cards. But, I always picked cards in bad condition. The Jerry West 1971 Topps card...already had a crease down the middle. The Elgin Baylor card -- a few torn corners. That way, if I didn't get them back, no biggie. And when I did get them back signed...of course I was thrilled.

That being said...here's what I'm wondering. If we see these cards pop up somewhere, signed...let's say on eBay or some place...would you even have any recourse? I'm guessing you wouldn't, which is a shame. The person selling them could claim they bought them from someone, and...there's no trail of how that person acquired them.

It was not Through The Mail (TTM). It was a paid autograph signing hosted by a promoter. You send them the items, they make sure they are signed and ship them back to you after the event.

Yes, I have little recourse, besides the opinion of the majority in the Hobby. If I had images of the stolen cards once found I could also file a stolen police report.

[Celtics18]

10 months later and no updates on my end. Tracking has been removed from the USPS system. Has anyone come across these?

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by Celtics18

10 months later and no updates on my end. Tracking has been removed from the USPS system. Has anyone come across these?

Your items are gone.

This is why i ALWAYS send my items fully insured AND insist that the seller i buy from also send fully insured too.

I recently bought a 1986 Topps Jerry Rice PSA 9 via Ebay. Seller actually sent the item via 1st class with no insurance if you can believe that. USPS lost the item and the guy ended up losing that $$. Anytime humans are involved, mistakes will happen.

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by Celtics18

10 months later and no updates on my end. Tracking has been removed from the USPS system. Has anyone come across these?

Also, i doubt it was some nefarious situation. Your item just got lost in transit.

[the mesiah]

Why am I not surprised Memphis was involved somehow , hope all goes well and gets resolved for u Op