It’s 1997 on the BO message boards - who’s the most polarizing player in the NBA?

[duron]

All I know is that at least one member would have the most recent Spree-on-PJ rap lyrics in their signature.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by Chris P

I can see a young Kobe being polarizing on here being a Laker and the hype that came with it...at the time he was coming off his rookie season where he didn't play a ton and finished his rookie season on a sour note with those air balls in the playoffs. He played better year 2 but popularity got him the all star starter nod. Topps Chrome exploded because of him and I can see people at the time dismissing him and chrome together

100% this. Nobody else would even be close.

I can't even think of a comparison for the current league. The closest I can think of would be Jalen Green having a hot start to next season, including a big game against LeBron or Curry and getting voted in as an All-Star starter after winning the dunk contest this year. On top of that, he'd have the hottest cards in the hobby with his Prizms shooting past Giannis, Luka, Kawhi, Morant, Zion, etc.

[dkcardman]

If you actually paid attention to basketball at this time, youd know it wasnt Kobe. He wasnt much of s thought at all outside of LA. He didnt do much is rooke year and airmailed the last shot of his first year. Zero controversy or discussion going on around him. The polarizing players of the time were Rodman or Jordan. Jordan was hated by so many because he never lost, kind of like Brady but with a much stronger attitude. So many people didnt like him. Rodman was basically LGBTQZY.. when it was not ready to be out there. Throwing a couple letters out there because there are probably things we dont even know are a thing that Rodman was doing at this time... he was the suicide squad for the bulls. Bring him game by game out of arkham. Lots of people had problems with him. Dude had to go to the leader of north Korea to find a kindred spirit. If that doesnt tell you something...

[Dame]

Originally Posted by dkcardman

If you actually paid attention to basketball at this time, youd know it wasnt Kobe. He wasnt much of s thought at all outside of LA. He didnt do much is rooke year and airmailed the last shot of his first year. Zero controversy or discussion going on around him. The polarizing players of the time were Rodman or Jordan. Jordan was hated by so many because he never lost, kind of like Brady but with a much stronger attitude. So many people didnt like him. Rodman was basically LGBTQZY.. when it was not ready to be out there. Throwing a couple letters out there because there are probably things we dont even know are a thing that Rodman was doing at this time... he was the suicide squad for the bulls. Bring him game by game out of arkham. Lots of people had problems with him. Dude had to go to the leader of north Korea to find a kindred spirit. If that doesnt tell you something...

My memory is probably off being that I followed him since his rookie year but it’s the reason why I didn’t pick Kobe. 97-98, he was still a sophomore. He was an exciting player still coming off the bench, I believe Eddie Jones was the starter.


All the vitriol really came in after the Lakers became a real threat and Kobe started playing like a legit Superstar in the playoffs, and that was in 2000-2001. I think his transition from a very well liked 18 year old to one of the most hated at age 21 was quite violent. I mean, back then it was quite rare to hear boos at All Star games yet Kobe was booed all night in Philly even during the award presentation lol.


Jordan’s charisma back then was untouchable. He was almost bulletproof to any kind of criticisms, but the way every locker room incidents are leaked nowadays, I think he’ll definitely be a lot more hated especially with how he treated certain teammates.

[gregboise]

Rodman

It’s not close


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[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by 1dayshow

Mahoud Abdul-Rauf

I'm surprised it took that many posts to say this. Especially that many years ago before so many were "woke"

But him, Speewell, Rodman, prolly Barkley.

But in terms of skill jordan. And people would hate on jordan for being good and a bit cocky, but that would be it. It would be hard to compare him to lebron because jordan didn't make polarizing statements and idiot jump to conclusions tweets. This is why most people can't stand lebron, it's usually not because of basketball. He's a dumbass with a platform.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by sthoemke

My uncle once sat next to him on an airplane. He said that he was the laziest person he ever saw in his whole life.

Ha, I'd love to hear more about this. How can someone not look lazy sitting in an airplane?

[Mahomie]

Originally Posted by dkcardman

If you actually paid attention to basketball at this time, youd know it wasnt Kobe. He wasnt much of s thought at all outside of LA. He didnt do much is rooke year and airmailed the last shot of his first year. Zero controversy or discussion going on around him. The polarizing players of the time were Rodman or Jordan. Jordan was hated by so many because he never lost, kind of like Brady but with a much stronger attitude. So many people didnt like him. Rodman was basically LGBTQZY.. when it was not ready to be out there. Throwing a couple letters out there because there are probably things we dont even know are a thing that Rodman was doing at this time... he was the suicide squad for the bulls. Bring him game by game out of arkham. Lots of people had problems with him. Dude had to go to the leader of north Korea to find a kindred spirit. If that doesnt tell you something...

Yeah, I agree. For me, it's not really a debate because I vividly remember how it was. It was just a different time. Only my wealthy friends had the internet, and they basically only used it for porn, chat rooms (a/s/l?), and the anarchist cookbook.

1997 was a crazy year for Dennis - that was the year he kicked the cameraman in the balls, and also made some jokes about the Mormon religion. The media had a field day.

You can almost see the fumes coming out of Jim Gray's ears:




I think Michael Wilbon summed it up best with a quote from one of his articles from that time period:

"We've called Dennis Rodman everything but a ballplayer this year. We've called him a lunatic, a troublemaker, an instigator, a rebel, a cross-dresser, a misfit, an oddball, a weirdo and an absolute wacko. We've even called him the supreme rebounder and a defensive specialist, but that's still inadequate. Whatever else he is, whether his hair is red or gold, whether he's dressed like a man or a woman, whether he's on the town with Madonna or Cindy Crawford, Dennis Rodman is a ballplayer, a great ballplayer."

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by dkcardman

If you actually paid attention to basketball at this time, youd know it wasnt Kobe. He wasnt much of s thought at all outside of LA. He didnt do much is rooke year and airmailed the last shot of his first year. Zero controversy or discussion going on around him. The polarizing players of the time were Rodman or Jordan. Jordan was hated by so many because he never lost, kind of like Brady but with a much stronger attitude. So many people didnt like him. Rodman was basically LGBTQZY.. when it was not ready to be out there. Throwing a couple letters out there because there are probably things we dont even know are a thing that Rodman was doing at this time... he was the suicide squad for the bulls. Bring him game by game out of arkham. Lots of people had problems with him. Dude had to go to the leader of north Korea to find a kindred spirit. If that doesnt tell you something...

I did actually pay attention to basketball at the time and this is in the context of a basketball card message board. Kobe would've been polarizing on here on hype alone. Look at the Zion Luka threads. His cards were on fire in 1997-98..you would've had people who got in early propping his cards up and calling him the next big thing and those who didn't calling him overrated..claiming he wasn't a starter etc. Again..it's about context. In the big picture..no Kobe wasn't controversial. In here? Yes..there would've been a Kobe Bryant player thread and it would've pages and pages long

[dkcardman]

Originally Posted by Chris P

I did actually pay attention to basketball at the time and this is in the context of a basketball card message board. Kobe would've been polarizing on here on hype alone. Look at the Zion Luka threads. His cards were on fire in 1997-98..you would've had people who got in early propping his cards up and calling him the next big thing and those who didn't calling him overrated..claiming he wasn't a starter etc. Again..it's about context. In the big picture..no Kobe wasn't controversial. In here? Yes..there would've been a Kobe Bryant player thread and it would've pages and pages long

He would have a discussion about him,but far from the MOST polarizing player.

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[Chris P]

Originally Posted by Dame

My memory is probably off being that I followed him since his rookie year but it’s the reason why I didn’t pick Kobe. 97-98, he was still a sophomore. He was an exciting player still coming off the bench, I believe Eddie Jones was the starter.


All the vitriol really came in after the Lakers became a real threat and Kobe started playing like a legit Superstar in the playoffs, and that was in 2000-2001. I think his transition from a very well liked 18 year old to one of the most hated at age 21 was quite violent. I mean, back then it was quite rare to hear boos at All Star games yet Kobe was booed all night in Philly even during the award presentation lol.


Jordan’s charisma back then was untouchable. He was almost bulletproof to any kind of criticisms, but the way every locker room incidents are leaked nowadays, I think he’ll definitely be a lot more hated especially with how he treated certain teammates.

I understand all that, but again context was, here on Blowout, a basketball card message board. Kobe wasn't doing anything controversial but in the card world his hype had his rookies going through the roof his second season. He was still coming off the bench and his rookies were the highest of that class. There would've been heated discussion back then about the why just like there is today with Luka, Zion, Ja etc. I'm using the Basketball Card aspect as part of my answer.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by dkcardman

He would have a discussion about him,but far from the MOST polarizing player.

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I'm talking specifically about cards that's all. Maybe not MOST polarizing player..but I believe hobby wise he would be up there and there would've been debate for sure about why his cards were so high and if he was worthy. I'm just framing it by how this board treats any up and comer. I guess it's just different debats..polarizing player in the league and polarizing player in the hobby and this is a hobby message board. That's just my opinion.

[Nomad]

I don't think that for the general, team following NBA fan, outside of LA at least, Kobe was polarizing. Same as with how Sprewell in GS was probably a big thing in Northern California (most fans hated that situation because it detracted from a lineup that actually had potential)

I think that Kobe's initial sticking point for those who might have still listened to games on radio at that late date and not seen NBA players hoop much, would have been his name affiliation with a certain steakhouse. At that time Japan was still a kind of rising cultural force, maybe similar to Korea today, at least in the States.

That and the concept of him growing up around his dad in the European League and offering a fresh, alternative perspective on basketball.

[hermanotarjeta]

The thing about Rodman, Jordan, or anyone on the Bulls, no matter how much the haters dogged on them, they would always shut up and go away in the end, cause you simply can’t hate on winning, period.

Lebron, KD, Kyrie or whoever you want to hate on today - you are so much more justified.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by Nomad

I don't think that for the general, team following NBA fan, outside of LA at least, Kobe was polarizing. Same as with how Sprewell in GS was probably a big thing in Northern California (most fans hated that situation because it detracted from a lineup that actually had potential)

I think that Kobe's initial sticking point for those who might have still listened to games on radio at that late date and not seen NBA players hoop much, would have been his name affiliation with a certain steakhouse. That and the concept of him growing up around his dad in the European League and offering a fresh, alternative perspective on basketball.

It's about context though to me. The OP asked polarizing player on this message board..a sports card message board in that time frame. Kobe's cards at the time shot up well over how he was playing. It's a different discussion if we're talking strictly basketball. It's like to me..I don't feel like Luka Doncic is a polarizing player...on here though? You got guys who troll his every bad game and others who think he'll take over the face of the NBA. Those kind of discussions would've applied to Kobe here. Looking at it through a hobby lens. Maybe not THE most polarizing player, but one of them, but in a hobby sense

[Nomad]

Interesting. At that time I think basically there were not as many people buying boxes, much less cases. Except for hobby shop owners and maybe dealers. So basically it was like if you got a Kobe in a pack you were pretty stoked. I think it is way stretching it to say Kobe had a hobby impact that early in his career. Maybe Shaq, who was the big dog. Jordan, as he mounted his comeback and his story became more compelling.

Maybe MJ was the breakthrough card influencer/polarizer. I mean they started printing high quality sets dedicated to him by 1997. (Looking for Jordan Tribute #53 in raw 9+ to complete the Bulls-red middle set) Who else was in that category? Many who maybe thought initially he was simply cashing in on stardom came to respect him and maybe follow basketball more because of his once-in-a-generation accomplishment, and this probably led to the basketball card renaissance (and excesses) of the late 1990s.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Chris P

It's about context though to me. The OP asked polarizing player on this message board..a sports card message board in that time frame. Kobe's cards at the time shot up well over how he was playing. It's a different discussion if we're talking strictly basketball. It's like to me..I don't feel like Luka Doncic is a polarizing player...on here though? You got guys who troll his every bad game and others who think he'll take over the face of the NBA. Those kind of discussions would've applied to Kobe here. Looking at it through a hobby lens. Maybe not THE most polarizing player, but one of them, but in a hobby sense

I still think AI was the more polarizing player in the hobby at the time. America was transitioning from “fresh prince of bel air” to “thug culture” and AI was a pioneer who brought street culture to the NBA. Execs weren’t sure how to handle it and collectors weren’t sure if enough people felt comfortable enough investing in him. He opened the doors to a whole new segment of America, and many people were still scared how marketable he was. They turned out wrong as AI came to be one of the most beloved players of the era.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Interesting. At that time I think basically there were not as many people buying boxes, much less cases. Except for hobby shop owners and maybe dealers. So basically it was like if you got a Kobe in a pack you were pretty stoked. I think it is way stretching it to say Kobe had a hobby impact that early in his career. Maybe Shaq, who was the big dog. Jordan, as he mounted his comeback and his story became more compelling than simply branding. Maybe he was the breakthrough card influencer/polarizer. I mean they started printing high quality sets dedicated to him by 1997. Who else was in that category? Many who maybe thought initially he was simply cashing in on stardom came to respect him and maybe follow basketball more.

How is it stretching? Did you collect in 97? I did...he was a BIG deal his second year..he was everywhere in hobby publications...Topps Chrome set went up because of him and the stacked 96-97 class but he was the leader of it. He absolutely had a hobby impact that early in his career

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I still think AI was the more polarizing player in the hobby at the time. America was transitioning from “fresh prince of bel air” to “thug culture” and AI was a pioneer who brought street culture to the NBA. Execs weren’t sure how to handle it and collectors weren’t sure if enough people felt comfortable enough investing in him. He opened the doors to a whole new segment of America, and many people were still scared how marketable he was. They turned out wrong as AI came to be one of the most beloved players of the era.

I agree..I'm just envisioning this specific message board and how I think they would react in regards to Kobe. AI would be up there as well. Obviously it's all opinion and maybe because the hobby didn't seem as nuts as it does now, but I just feel like Kobe would have a player thread on here and there'd be a group that believed in him and a group that didn't. Same with AI as well

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Chris P

I agree..I'm just envisioning this specific message board and how I think they would react in regards to Kobe. AI would be up there as well. Obviously it's all opinion and maybe because the hobby didn't seem as nuts as it does now, but I just feel like Kobe would have a player thread on here and there'd be a group that believed in him and a group that didn't. Same with AI as well

Yeah, I’m on the side that feels Kobe got more polarizing as his team and play got more successful, several years later after jordan retired and the nba was looking for a new face of the game. But I understand your point. People invested big money in Kobe his second year and that’s when people who missed out on the big gains started to hate on him, so you could say it was the beginning of the factions.

[Nomad]

Given all that bad blood, it is amazing how many good affordable early Kobe cards are still out there. Fun player to collect, for sure. Just for the era.

[Mahomie]

Originally Posted by Chris P

Looking at it through a hobby lens.

I hear ya, and can definitely see that angle.

In terms of "hobby hype" type of polarization, Keith Van Horn is one name that comes to mind. He was drafted #2 in '97, and I definitely remember there was a bit of hobby buzz regarding his rookie cards at the time (I still have some his low end stuff somewhere).

To think the 76ers could have drafted TMac instead...what a different timeline that would have been.

Actually, TMac is another decent answer. Came straight out of highschool (which was still super rare), drafted 9th in '97, and had a very quiet rookie year.

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

I'm surprised it took that many posts to say this. Especially that many years ago before so many were "woke"

But him, Speewell, Rodman, prolly Barkley.

But in terms of skill jordan. And people would hate on jordan for being good and a bit cocky, but that would be it. It would be hard to compare him to lebron because jordan didn't make polarizing statements and idiot jump to conclusions tweets. This is why most people can't stand lebron, it's usually not because of basketball. He's a dumbass with a platform.

That’s it? Could you imagine the 100 page threads with the magic/bird/dr. J fans hating on Jordan for every little thing. Fining for the shoes, cocky as you said, ball hog, the Thomas/dream team drama, gambling, dad mysteriously murdered, retiring, baseball, returning, stacking teams, always talking to the refs, getting special treatment, and being the goat would have made for epic threads. These are some of the stuff I had to hear through the 90s in my small bubble, I could only imagine if we would have had large forums online back then.

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

That’s it? Could you imagine the 100 page threads with the magic/bird/dr. J fans hating on Jordan for every little thing. Fining for the shoes, cocky as you said, ball hog, the Thomas/dream team drama, gambling, dad mysteriously murdered, retiring, baseball, returning, stacking teams, always talking to the refs, getting special treatment, and being the goat would have made for epic threads. These are some of the stuff I had to hear through the 90s in my small bubble, I could only imagine if we would have had large forums online back then.

Yeah I guess that's pretty true, I'm not a jordan fan whatsoever. And I do believe he got away with murder on the floor. The push off on Bryon Russell is totally a thing

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

That’s it? Could you imagine the 100 page threads with the magic/bird/dr. J fans hating on Jordan for every little thing. Fining for the shoes, cocky as you said, ball hog, the Thomas/dream team drama, gambling, dad mysteriously murdered, retiring, baseball, returning, stacking teams, always talking to the refs, getting special treatment, and being the goat would have made for epic threads. These are some of the stuff I had to hear through the 90s in my small bubble, I could only imagine if we would have had large forums online back then.

Winning shut up all the critics, just as it has done for Brady after his 7th ring. There was nothing left to argue about.